Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ariansworld on September 22, 2007, 04:34:17 PM
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Yesterday I bought a cb radio and a cb antenna from radio shack. I have installed it in a ford focus. It will turn on I have heard a few things said on it... but mostly I get nothing but static. My question is is it supposed to do that, right now I have been tuned to the emergency channels and have heard absolutely nothing but static. I would like to mkae it so i can hear people all.
thanks
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A focus? I have one on my Jeep. My guess is you need to "tune" your antenna.
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Radio shack also sells Cell Phones last time I checked. I havent messed with CB in over 15 years. Besides it's no fun unless you can run over 150 watts and melt Antennas :t
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Hehehe OK CB radio is kinda a black art. First thing...what kind of radio is it (make and model) and what kind of antenna (make and model)? Also did you check the SWR with a meter?? SWR is your antennas Sine Wave Ratio. It's technical but the short and sweet of it is with a SWR meter hooked up to the radio and the antenna coax you check the low freq, middle freq, and high freq. All three should be no higher than 1.5. Below 1 is great. In order to tune the antenna for this there should be a set screw for the antenna stinger. You have to manually move the stinger up or down until you get a good reading when TRANSMITTING then secure the set screw so the stinger doesn't move. If you just bottom it out your SWR's will be all over the place and your radio won't work worth a damn. Radio Shack has SWR meters and they're pretty cheap. Remember the SWR's show your transmitting power and reflected power. SWR is your reflected power reading. You want it as low as you can get it. If the stinger is bottomed out and your still high...like above 3 then take a hack saw and cut of the bottom of the stinger in 1/8th inch pieces until you get it to drop below 1.5
Also antenna location is important. You want the most metal under the antenna as possible to give you a good ground plane and you want the antenna as close to the center of the vehicle as possible. If it mounted on the trunk you'll transmit and receive further off the front of the car than the rear. Kinda makes it a directional antenna that way.
Last but not least. Channel 9 is the "emergancy" channel for CB radio but no one uses it. 19 is the common "truckers" channel and is good to have tuned when on the highway. You should have an RF Gain Knob and a Squelch Knob on a decent radio. Once the antenna is tuned for a good SWR reading you can use the RF Gain and Squelch to get rid of the static. Turning down the RF Gain however will reduce the amount of radio waves you recieve, and the Squelch will reduce the amount of background noise. You just have to play with it.
Bet you weren't expecting to have to do all this huh? Just so you know though, if you use the radio and transmit with it with high SWR's you will burn out the radio because your over powering the transmitter with reflected power. That's bad.
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With a stock radio, don't expect much. You can use it on the hiway but for the most part you will get slammed by the big radios out there. You will get a LOT of static/noise during the day but to tends to quiet down some at night. The max range during the day is 3-5 miles. At night it all depends on atmospheric conditions. I have talked some long range skip on a 3 watt radio.
The emergency channel 9 is rarely used anymore.
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Originally posted by fuddu2
Radio shack also sells Cell Phones last time I checked. I havent messed with CB in over 15 years. Besides it's no fun unless you can run over 150 watts and melt Antennas :t
LOL, my linear has a 150 driver to run 700 watt peak.:t
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In the evenings, scan around the channels and see where the activity is. Your bound to find a drunken redneck on there :D
I have a CB radio with a telephone hand receiver for a mic. Radio Shack TRC-56, pretty neat little CB
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thanks, i think i may have unscrewed that screw when i was putting the antenna together.
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Hornet33,
Thought me and the truckers were all that was left.:D
Been on the 2 way since tube radios, base and mobile, early 60's.
Best skip shot was (he said) Australia in 1984 on the mobile from summit of Mt Rose at almost 9K elevation, most repetitive skip area was southern states, mostly Fla.
Think my second license was KYO9217, which FCC issued to me when they went manditory three and four. Original was two letters and three numbers, but that was long long ago and I lied about age to get it.
Still have two or three working 23 channel units.
All currently used units are 40 plus SSB, and weather, mobile has echo and 1K Watt cheater using K40 roof mount on pick up truck.
ariansworld,
I have 4 major truck stops and major north/south and east/west highways here, and very seldom hear much. Try channel 19 or 17 for most highway traffic. California uses 17 for north/south freeways alot.
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HB555 I've been playing with CB's since I was 14 years old when I got my first little base station set up in my room. Had a small antenna mounted on a 20ft telescoping pole beside the house.
I still have a Uniden Galaxy base station that runs on tubes. Still works but it takes about 10 minutes to get warmed up. Also have a couple of old Cobra mobiles. One 23 channel that is older than dirt that still works.
I have a Cobra 148GTL 40/80SSB in my truck with a 500watt kicker going out a set of dual trucker antennas mounted on the tool box. Best radar detector I've ever had:aok
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And if you want to talk to people in other states/countries, get a linear. (Linear amplier, but most people just say "leenyer". Be carefull getting it, though, it's a very illegal device....) Squelch cuts down on the background noise (static), as well as other incoming messages. Turning it up reduces the distance you will hear people from. Turn it up too high, and you won't hear anybody. To see if anybody can hear you, key the mike and say "Breaker, breaker, can I get a radio check? Comeback." At least, that is how we do it around here.
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I run a CB in the truck but it's squelched down really tight. I get tired of the usual trucker language on 19. It has come in handy when I had a flat and needed to call for a tire service to come and change it. Truckers relayed the message to the nearest town. If I am traveling with another RVer we tend to find a seperate channel rather than stay on 19.
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thanks. I apreciate all the response. I will be going up to radio shack tomorrow to get one of those devices to adjust my antenna.
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Sorry to be so nit picky Hornet but as a radar tech for the better part of 20 years I just couldn't let that one go. SWR is Standing Wave Ratio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave_ratio
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Hornet33,
Sweet set up.
My mobiles are Cobra 29LTDs, one with WX, one with echo.
House unit currently is my dad's old Siltronix 1011D tube type, and yea, 10 minutes is about right. LOL Have all the trick stuff hooked in, digital freq counter, SWR meter, 500W kicker to a Startduster mounted about 50 feet up. Too windy here for large directional array. Keeps blowing down so I gave up.
And AKIron is correct! All of mine are 1.3 or less all over the band.
The Head Beagle
KYO9217
Down and off the key.
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arians, you might want to check your radio first. Some units have an SWR meter built into them. Check your owners manual.
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Originally posted by rpm
arians, you might want to check your radio first. Some units have an SWR meter built into them. Check your owners manual.
Thanks RPM , it turns out it did. You saved me some time and money. I apreciate it bud . Tomorrow when I go up to Morgantown I am going to put it to the test.
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Remember to test it on 3 different channels. Low (1), mid (23) and hi (40). You want to find the "sweet spot" in your adjustment that gives you the best overall readings. Don't get too anxious, you will still be the weakest kid on the block.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Sorry to be so nit picky Hornet but as a radar tech for the better part of 20 years I just couldn't let that one go. SWR is Standing Wave Ratio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave_ratio
Yep and I learned it as Sine wave ratio at Electronic Technician school back in 1994. Same thing......tomato tamato whatever:rofl
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Originally posted by HB555
Hornet33,
Thought me and the truckers were all that was left.:D
Been on the 2 way since tube radios, base and mobile, early 60's.
Best skip shot was (he said) Australia in 1984 on the mobile from summit of Mt Rose at almost 9K elevation, most repetitive skip area was southern states, mostly Fla.
Think my second license was KYO9217, which FCC issued to me when they went manditory three and four. Original was two letters and three numbers, but that was long long ago and I lied about age to get it.
Still have two or three working 23 channel units.
All currently used units are 40 plus SSB, and weather, mobile has echo and 1K Watt cheater using K40 roof mount on pick up truck.
ariansworld,
I have 4 major truck stops and major north/south and east/west highways here, and very seldom hear much. Try channel 19 or 17 for most highway traffic. California uses 17 for north/south freeways alot.
my first set was a 23 channel kraco. i just happened to get it when the sunspot cycle peaked in the late 70s... heh, the one that killed skylab. it was a good set and with the good propogation from an excellent solar peak i worked a big chunk of the world with it from nz; u.k, europe, u.s, hawai, new caladonia, japan, aussie and a few other places that i cant remember, mostly using ssb and running bare foot in to a 1/4 wave ground plane. real good days
oh yeah, when skip was runnin' from the u.s channel 19 was often a solid S9 hetrodyne here in nz... talk about busy. but if you got lucky and found a quite channel a qso in to the u.s with 5 watts am was usually possible.
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My longest DX was Texas to Tazmania with 3 watts in the early 90's.
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Now you need a hat and a moustache:
(http://www.geeks.com/techtips/2006/Images/burtreynolds.gif)
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3 watts is good going rpm. its real hard to be heard, and to hear thu the noise when you use low power.
a big advantage to working dx from nz is that 27megs is a clear band here. the local cb band is on 26 megs, so 27 is free of local noise. apart from a few local 'free banders' if you here a signal on 27 its nearly always dx, it makes things a lot easier.
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It was around midnight my time and conditions were perfect. I've done lots of transatlantic from the East Coast using hi power, but I was proud of that one.:cool:
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Ah the CB...the poor man's radar detector of the 80s :)
I dont recall the atmospheric event that did this....the skip (?) but sometimes you'd pick up conversations that were hundreds, if not thousands of miles away.
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And I thouht these had a small range, I guess I was wrong.
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Originally posted by ariansworld
And I thouht these had a small range, I guess I was wrong.
Usually they are especially for a mobile radio and antenna. But if the conditions are just right, even your setup could reach 100's of miles
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Back in the "old days" (Late '70's), the FCC was overwhelmed, and few rule breakers were busted.
Today, freebanders, linear runners, and interlopers into the 28 mHz range are busted and fined up to $10,000 and more.
The technology at the FCC's fingertips is far more advanced than it used to be...and the number of licenced hams willing to participare in the AA (Amateur Auxiliary) to bust them has increased.
Run legal, and you have nothing to worry about. Your new mobile should do you just fine.
68ROX
K5TEN
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Now you need a hat and a moustache:
(http://www.geeks.com/techtips/2006/Images/burtreynolds.gif)
That's a big 10-4 good buddy.
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On the subject of range....
Your mobile antenna has no "gain", and if your ground is good to the car body (not a magnetic mount---mag mounts have a bad grounding component). Your "ground wave" range on flat area will be about 10 to 12 miles.
If you are on a 1,000' mountain top (for example)....your "ground wave" signal can extend out to say 50 miles...IF the frequency (channel) is clear of other louder, closer in stations to the other person.
"Skip" (which used to be illegal to communicate with stations over 150 miles, but no longer enforced) is a totally different story.
The nature of 27 mHZ is that it is controlled by SO MANY DIFFERENT forms of radio propagation it's not even funny. Let's look at some of the most common...
Sunspots
Sunspot Cycles (we are currently at the absolute LOW of the latest 13 year cycle) transequitorial propagation on 27 mHz is rare. The MUF, or Maximum Useable Frequency for LONG distance comms rarely goes higher than 14 or 18 mHz....wait until late 2008 and it will improve. This propagation takes place in the "F" layer of the ionisphere.
Sporatic E
Sporatic E lies in the slightly closer to the Earth "E" layer of the ionisphere. At 27 mHz...these invisible "clouds" can be as amall as a large city or as big as a state, and allow even low powered stations to communicate between 300 and 1,000 miles. The openings usually happen from April to July in the Northern Hemisphere...and can last for up to 3 to 4 hours. This propagation does NOT depent on the solar cycle.
Meteor Scatter
Meteors, usually only the size of a grain of sand bombard our planet on a daily basis...but are more OFTEN in nature in regularly predictable meteor showers. The meteors "ionize" the upper atmosphere as they burn up...at 27 mHz, they allow contacts from say 300 to 600 miles, but only for a VERY SHORT period of time...say 30 to 60 seconds. Make your transmissions very short, and you can make many meteor contacts during a meteor shower.
Atmospheric Ducting
Usually over larger bodies of water. The signal gets "trapped" in the "D" layer where the temp aloft is equal to the temp aloft over a distance of say 70-125 miles away and gets "trapped" in that layer (like a heating duct) until it gets to "escape" some distance away. This makes contacts from (i.e Chicago to Grand Rapids over Lake Michigan in the summer) possible.
Aurora
The Aurora Borealis as low frequencies can wipe out radio propagation. At higher frequencies it can actually help. I've made many contacts with Russians at 14 mHz "over the pole", and the Aurora on their signals was obvious...it throws the signal out of phase, and it sounds "watery" or like they are talking underwater.
At 27 mHz, the signal can get "bounced" off the Northern Aurora, and end up send the signal back South 1,000-2,000 miles. The signals sound less watery, but with the "bouncing" there is a slight delay echo, and sometimes you can hear your own last sylable of your own transmission in the delay echo. Aurora is less common than the other forms of propagation, but low power stations can easily have a Chicago-California-Florida round-table discussion where all three stations can easily hear one another---almost impossible with other forms of propagation at 27 mHz.
Really, the best way to improve your signal strength LEGALLY (and keep you from getting a hefty fine from running illegal power) is to improve your antenna ststem. a 102' whip does a lot better than a short mag mount on a mobile.
If you run a base station, there are literally a hundred different antennas with "gain"...many you can build yourself cheaply from wire that will GREATLY improve your signal LEGALLY.
I built a 6 element quad with wire and gray PVC tubing and hung it at 70'...the gain was astranomical. The cost = less than $100
With ALL of the forms of propagation above you DO NOT NEED ILLEGAL POWER! I have easily communicated with other stations at half the power people have in their garage door openers (.050 mW).
Let me know if I can help.
68ROX
K5TEN
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Originally posted by Curval
That's a big 10-4 good buddy.
Make sure you say that on air.... a lot.:rofl
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break 1-9, this is rubber duck and i'm about to put the hammer down... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lE5hltRfqQ&mode=related&search=://)
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When I was a kid,everybody had one.
There was a guy across the valley I hated.He had a 5-element beam,and was running a linear amp with insane amounts of power.When he came on to talk skip,he'd point that thing directly west right over my house and would splatter over every channel.
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Originally posted by JB88
break 1-9, this is rubber duck and i'm about to put the hammer down... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lE5hltRfqQ&mode=related&search=://)
Mercy sake's alive it looks like we got us a convoy.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Yep and I learned it as Sine wave ratio at Electronic Technician school back in 1994. Same thing......tomato tamato whatever:rofl
I bet you didn't have to learn the vacuum tube stuff. My first electronics school was about 20 years before '94 when digital was up and coming but tubes were still the military mainstay. I still fondly remember the daily "tune-ups" of the tube based AN/FPN-47 ASR. VSWR was one of the daily checks.
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Grids, plates, filaments. Ah, the good 'ol days when you could cook dinner over the tubes while DXing.
68ROX, you paint a scary picture. Too bad the FCC does'nt live up to that. There are at least 1000 trucks in my county alone running linears. Can't remember the last time anyone was busted by Uncle Charlie. If you want to buy a linear amplifier I can take you to the CB shop next to the police station. They have a huge selection. But you're right it is illegal.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I bet you didn't have to learn the vacuum tube stuff. My first electronics school was about 20 years before '94 when digital was up and coming but tubes were still the military mainstay. I still fondly remember the daily "tune-ups" of the tube based AN/FPN-47 ASR. VSWR was one of the daily checks.
I got to mess around with some tube theory at school. We had to learn the whole de-con procedures for breaking one. My first unit we had to deal with some of the old LORAN tubes. Those suckers were HUGE!!!!! 4ft tall tube that weigh around 100lbs. I also worked on the AN/SPS-64 Radar system and that had a nice sized mod tube in the MTR.
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Good luck trying to use FRS or CB near the Mexico border... Many Mexican groups set up their family chat lines with poorly tuned high powered transmitters, so you get 40 CB plus most of the FRS channels jammed with Mexican chatter from the border up past LA. Growing up in San Diego about 20 years, on a good night there might be 4 usable channels that weren't saturated with Mexican chat. Putting a mountain between us and the border helped but it sort of limited the usefulness of the radio.
San Diego is the worst I've heard for that though. Most other places it's not so bad.
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Ever been to DelRio or Laredo?
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Originally posted by Hornet33
I got to mess around with some tube theory at school. We had to learn the whole de-con procedures for breaking one. My first unit we had to deal with some of the old LORAN tubes. Those suckers were HUGE!!!!! 4ft tall tube that weigh around 100lbs. I also worked on the AN/SPS-64 Radar system and that had a nice sized mod tube in the MTR.
I forgot about the transmitter. Even the newish computerized ASR-9 has a klystron. At 75KV it's shielded for x-rays.
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I went to UPT in Del Rio. The volume of CB radio traffic there was nothing compared to San Diego. The population within 50-100 miles of Del Rio is a mere fraction of that around San Diego.
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The last time I was down there you had to have 1kw to talk across the parking lot.
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Originally posted by rpm
Grids, plates, filaments. Ah, the good 'ol days when you could cook dinner over the tubes while DXing.
68ROX, you paint a scary picture. Too bad the FCC does'nt live up to that. There are at least 1000 trucks in my county alone running linears. Can't remember the last time anyone was busted by Uncle Charlie. If you want to buy a linear amplifier I can take you to the CB shop next to the police station. They have a huge selection. But you're right it is illegal.
Check out all the fines......HERE:
Busted Radio Op's (http://www.arrl.org/news/enforcement_logs/)
More Busted Radio Op's (http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/Welcome.html)
Note the number of NOAL's to trucking companies.
68ROX
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Seeing as how I've used CB radios for years, and I'm also a licensed ham radio operator (KE4TMG), let me give you this advice. The antenna is the most important part. With cb radio, the larger the antenna, the better. It will increase your broadcast radius, other stations will hear you better, and you will hear them better.
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SWR was my call too.... makes a huge difference
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SWR = Standing Wave Ratio
How much of your RF transmitted power goes OUT the antenna, and how much comes BACK...
HIGH SWR means very bad antenna efficiency, and possible final damage.
LOW SWR means better antenna efficiency, and getting the most from the power you transmit.
Antenna tuners (for as low as $50 and as high as $800) can be used between the transmitter and antenna to make the SWR be 1 to 1.
You can load up a set of bedsprings with an antenna tuner and make contacts. I've loaded up a lawn chair and made contacts on 28 mHz.
The cheapest base antenna you can make is a half wave dipole, fed with RG/8 coax for about 15 bucks. Get it up 60 feet, and you will make AM contacts with 5 watts out to about 50 miles on ground-wave. On SSB (12 watts) out to about 100 miles on ground wave.
68ROX
K5TEN
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Seeing as how I've used CB radios for years, and I'm also a licensed ham radio operator (KE4TMG), let me give you this advice. The antenna is the most important part. With cb radio, the larger the antenna, the better. It will increase your broadcast radius, other stations will hear you better, and you will hear them better.
Can you run a wire up a tree, or does shape and thickness matter?
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Can you run a wire up a tree, or does shape and thickness matter?
You could, technically, that would be an end fed vertical...not a very effecient antenna.
Antennas can be constructed with anything from speaker wire (I'd advise against it) all the way up to 3" and 4" aluminum tubing.
If you wanted a cheap, efficient, base station antenna, I'd do with the half-wave dipole.
See Example & How Long it Needs To Be HERE (http://www.radioing.com/hamradio/antcalc.html)
If you wanted to mainly talk with other base stations....use the "flat top" dipole configuration for horizonal polarization. If you wanted to talk base- to- mobiles...simply use the "inverted Vee" or slope the ends down at 45 degree angles for vertical polarization (used by mobile CB stations).
For 27.000 mHz, the antenna is overall 17.3 feet, or a little over 8 1/2" feet long on each side. Dipole center insulators cost about 6 bucks and are easy to solder the wire to...then screw the coax into the bottom, raise the center and ends into a tree using fishing line and a slingshot, and your are in business.
If you get it up to 60', it will exhibit some gain (not much) of 2 to 3 dB (meaning your 5 legal watts now sound like 10 to 15) without using illegal amps.
If you REALLY want some LEGAL base station gain....go with a beam antenna!
For gain on a mobile station, your talking about having to co-phase 2 identical antennas (you see this on truckers a lot). The best mobile single antenna is the 102" whip, grounded to the car body.
Good Luck!
68ROX
K5TEN (3 QSLs short of confirmed 100 countries!)
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question, I was testing my radio today, is there supposed to be static all the time? and do I want the meter thing on my radio to have 1 bar or more bars? I am using an antenna that i bought from radioshack that has a magnetic base.
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There is a knob called "squelch".
Turn it probably clockwise until the static just goes away.
You will still hear anyone in the area with a strong enough signal to come in over the squelch. If you are trying to talk to someone far away, you may not hear them. Just go down on the squelch until you are through talking, then turn it back up to where the static just stops.
Static gets old pretty quick.
While mobile, you may need to turn it up a bit more due to alternator whine, tire static, etc.
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CB's are AM radios. You will almost always have white noise.
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Originally posted by rpm
Grids, plates, filaments. Ah, the good 'ol days when you could cook dinner over the tubes while DXing.
yup, and where the volts can jolt, and 600 of them really hurt. once i was fiddling around in the finals comparment of a yaesu ft-101 with the tubes juiced-up, got careless, and got belted. never made that mistake twice
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Originally posted by Excel1
yup, and where the volts can jolt, and 600 of them really hurt. once i was fiddling around in the finals comparment of a yaesu ft-101 with the tubes juiced-up, got careless, and got belted. never made that mistake twice
That's a great 70's era rig...wish I had one!
Station here is:
Yaeseu 757 GX/Mk II
Kenwood Twins (T599/R599D)
Kenwood TS-& 700A (2m All Mode)
Icom V8000 2m Mobile
80m Dipole @ 55'/MFJ Tuner
3 element 10m Beam @ 30'
CB- Cobra 2000 Base
10m Quad Loop @ 35'
I don't use the CB much, except to help coordinate local emergency traffic. We get nasty ice storms from time to time, and it's usefull for that. I can rig up a wire vertical in a heartbeat that is impervious to ice if need be.
68ROX
K5TEN