Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: FrodeMk3 on September 29, 2007, 03:33:39 AM
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Ok, first, here's the news link:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070929/ap_on_re_as/china_military
Now, this hasn't stated overall dominance, in every aspect, but it infers that they are quite close, at the moment. Their technology is mostly bought from other sources, such as russia, but they seem to be serious about having a military that can control east-asia.
This is, of course, oppurtunism on China's part-they've taken advantage of our situation in the Middle east to catch up to us.
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Our positioning in the mid-east is the trump card. If we can control the flow of oil out of the region, we can control the Chinese and their ambitions.
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three gorges dam boom wal-mart boom
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Russia can still feed oil to China... not that it matters at all. Nobody will ever do anything to stop China in any way.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Russia can still feed oil to China... not that it matters at all. Nobody will ever do anything to stop China in any way.
Russia doesn't have enough oil to feed china's need. As far as China's military, it might be big, but they can't transport it like we can. So they are still mainly a regional threat in regards to a ground force.
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So far they cant, but they are working on it. For China to get oil wont be a big problem. They can get it from Russia or via Russia. All they have to do is pay for it, and as long as the rest of the world keep feeding them money that wont be a problem.
No worries tho. America and China will never go to war anyway. The finanical implications for both because of the global economy will put a stop to that.
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What a ridiculous display of self-agrandizement on the part of the Air Force General. As always, they display a better nose for fighting on Capitol Hill than on the battlefield.
Somebody's pissed he can't re-carpet the O'Club...:lol
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The Air Force general is right on the mark in keeping people aware of China's growing military strength. U.S. air power is taken for granted but it is the result of decades of experience and intelligent application of hard lessons learned militarily and politically.
Many Air Force planes are older than the pilots who fly them. Like great old cars, they can't last forever although current renovations are unprecedented (e.g., bombers and tankers flying more than 40 years).
Can you tell I'm retired Air Force? The U.S. Air Force is a fabulous organization, one of the best in world history. :aok
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As long as Russia turns out crap like this, we don't have to worry about what systems the Chinese buy from the Russians. ;)
http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Analyses_12/Silence_in_Syria_Panic_in_Iran.shtml
Syria's Antiaircraft System Most Advanced In World. Syria has gone on a profligate buying spree, spending vast sums on Russian systems, 'considered the cutting edge in aircraft interception technology.' Syria now 'possesses the most crowded antiaircraft system in the world,' with 'more than 200 antiaircraft batteries of different types,' some of which are so new that they have been installed in Syria 'before being introduced into Russian operation service.' While you're digesting that, take a look at the map of Syria: Notice how far away Dayr az-Zawr is from Israel. An F15/16 attack there is not a tiptoe across the border, but a deep, deep penetration of Syrian airspace. And guess what happened with the Russian super-hyper-sophisticated cutting edge antiaircraft missile batteries when that penetration took place on September 6th. Nothing.
El blanko. Silence. The systems didn't even light up, gave no indication whatever of any detection of enemy aircraft invading Syrian airspace, zip, zero, nada. The Israelis (with a little techie assistance from us) blinded the Russkie antiaircraft systems so completely the Syrians didn't even know they were blinded. Now you see why the Syrians have been scared speechless. They thought they were protected - at enormous expense - only to discover they are defenseless. As in naked. Thus the Great Iranian Freak-Out - for this means Iran is just as nakedly defenseless as Syria.
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For those of you who take an interest, and want to see more about what the general was refering to, check this out:http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
As long as Russia turns out crap like this, we don't have to worry about what systems the Chinese buy from the Russians. ;)
http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Analyses_12/Silence_in_Syria_Panic_in_Iran.shtml
Wow! Where're the Russian military equipment is superior defenders? Probably paddling up denial.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
As long as Russia turns out crap like this, we don't have to worry about what systems the Chinese buy from the Russians. ;)
http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Analyses_12/Silence_in_Syria_Panic_in_Iran.shtml
pwned:D
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Originally posted by Halo
The Air Force general is right on the mark in keeping people aware of China's growing military strength.
What he's doing is using the Chinese military growth into scaring members of Congress into pressuring the DoD into reallocating budget money. The Chinese had the largest military expansion in the world beginning in the '90's. This isn't some sort of revelation unique to this guy
Many Air Force planes are older than the pilots who fly them.
So? Welcome to the U.S. military. Every service is using legacy gear. There are Marine Corps helicopters getting shot up in Iraq that are still carrying battle damage from Vietnam. Heck, the Air Force, by its own design, has decided to keep flying the BUFF until 2040 or something like that. Bottom line is that I'd rather have 30 year old F-15's flown by U.S. pilots than brand new ones flown by the Chinese.
Can you tell I'm retired Air Force?
I respect your service and opinion. However, as a former Marine and one who's had to do more with less in the past, I think the Air Force is spoiled. As a commander, if you have needs or concerns, you let your chain of command know, not the newspapers.
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Regardless of equipment, what has always set our military apart from any others, is our training and strategies. We didn't always have the best equipment in ww2 but our soldiers still did what had to be done and did it well.
The screw ups in Iraq are not our military's fault and IMO don't show a good example of our military power. "Shock and Awe" was a prime example of our military might. Meaning the opening of the Iraq war, I don't think anyone can really compete with that. However we aren't a police force as our military is being used for today in Iraq.
China might be getting a lot of new stuff, but I still think ours is up to par, and our soldiers training will over come theirs. China also lacks the experience in any modern combat, so in essence their army and strategies are untested in a real combat environment.
It will also likely never be a fight directly with China. We will fight them, just like we did the Soviets via proxy wars. Iran might be the first, but I'm sure it wont be the last. We will at some point end up in Africa because of it's oil reserves.
Eventually Africa will gain the focus of our attention, just like the middle east is today. The difference there is China is already heavily involved in Africa, in countries like The Sudan and so on.
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china by default, having 200 million people they could easily throw into a conventional war and no one would care.
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Originally posted by Torque
china by default, having 200 million people they could easily throw into a conventional war and no one would care.
Yea but they can't transport 200 million people and if they tried, it would be easy pickings for us to target their mass troop movements while in transit.
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Originally posted by Torque
china by default, having 200 million people they could easily throw into a conventional war and no one would care.
Let's see, the US has a population of 301 million. I thought the Chinese had a much higher population than that.
I don't get it Torque, want to explain that to me?
Mark
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population of china 1,321,851,888
source Google type population of china
population of united states
301,139,947
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I think he meant by 200 million PLA troops
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The article stated 2.3 million troops in the worlds largest standing army. That's why I got confused.
Mark
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The Chinese have the numbers and are more than willing to spend them as we learned in Korea the middle of the last century. Logistics to support a marching 200 million man army they boast would be staggering. Where will they go?
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(http://www.ausairpower.net/000-F-14A-Iran-Soviet-1.jpg)
Late 80s. Used in developing the Mig-31 and SU-27/30 variants.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
(http://www.ausairpower.net/000-F-14A-Iran-Soviet-1.jpg)
Late 80s. Used in developing the Mig-31 and SU-27/30 variants.
isnt that an iranian f14?
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Originally posted by evenhaim
isnt that an iranian f14?
Yup
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23 responses and not a single photo of an f-22 with the caption: 'As long as we have these guys, flying around, I'm not worried'
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!
Come on guys, you're lagging!
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Originally posted by Dadano
Our positioning in the mid-east is the trump card. If we can control the flow of oil out of the region, we can control the Chinese and their ambitions.
But you cannot, and China now owns you anyway...
..The country holding the most U.S. debt is Japan which held $612.3 billion at the end of the first quarter of 2007. The People's Republic of China holds the second most U.S. debt, ending the first quarter of 2007 with over $1.2 trillion in total foreign reserves, of which about $420.2 billion are U.S. Treasury securities...
In recent years, the debt has soared and inflation has stayed low in part because China has been willing to accumulate reserves denominated in U.S. Dollars. Currently, China holds over $1 trillion in dollar denominated assets (of which $330 billion are U.S. Treasury notes). In comparison, $1.4 Trillion represents M1 or the "tight money supply" of U.S. Dollars which suggests that the value of the U.S. Dollar could change dramatically should China ever choose to divest itself of a large portion of those reserves...
A traditional defense of the national debt is that we "owe the debt to ourselves". The US debt in the hands of foreign governments is 25% of the total. Despite the declining willingness of foreign investors to continue investing in dollar denominated instruments as the US Dollar has fallen in 2007 the U.S. Treasury statistics indicate that, at the end of 2006, foreigners held 44% of federal debt held by the public.About 66% of that 44% was held by the central banks of other countries, in particular the central banks of Japan and China. In total, lenders from Japan and China held 47% of the foreign-owned debt. Some argue this exposes the United States to potential financial or political risk that either banks will stop buying Treasury securities or start selling them heavily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
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Originally posted by TimRas
But you cannot, and China now owns you anyway...
..The country holding the most U.S. debt is Japan which held $612.3 billion at the end of the first quarter of 2007. The People's Republic of China holds the second most U.S. debt, ending the first quarter of 2007 with over $1.2 trillion in total foreign reserves, of which about $420.2 billion are U.S. Treasury securities...
In recent years, the debt has soared and inflation has stayed low in part because China has been willing to accumulate reserves denominated in U.S. Dollars. Currently, China holds over $1 trillion in dollar denominated assets (of which $330 billion are U.S. Treasury notes). In comparison, $1.4 Trillion represents M1 or the "tight money supply" of U.S. Dollars which suggests that the value of the U.S. Dollar could change dramatically should China ever choose to divest itself of a large portion of those reserves...
A traditional defense of the national debt is that we "owe the debt to ourselves". The US debt in the hands of foreign governments is 25% of the total. Despite the declining willingness of foreign investors to continue investing in dollar denominated instruments as the US Dollar has fallen in 2007 the U.S. Treasury statistics indicate that, at the end of 2006, foreigners held 44% of federal debt held by the public.About 66% of that 44% was held by the central banks of other countries, in particular the central banks of Japan and China. In total, lenders from Japan and China held 47% of the foreign-owned debt. Some argue this exposes the United States to potential financial or political risk that either banks will stop buying Treasury securities or start selling them heavily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
A nation's ability to wage all out war is not significantly hampered by it's debt to other nations if it has the internal resources to produce it's own war machine and provide sustenance for it's people. Germany is a pretty good example of this I think.
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(http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/f22.jpg)
As long as we have these guys, flying around, I'm not worried
:D
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
(http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/f22.jpg)
As long as we have these guys, flying around, I'm not worried
:D
LOL.
Jackarse
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Okay, I am going to tell you all something that you may or not belive, that is fine with me though.
The Chinese Military (Air Force) is NOTHING in comparison to any western equivalent. They are completely behind in operations, and also ability within throughout its entire force.
How do I know this? I have trained with and RE-TRAINED (ie, taught) Chinese Military pilots (with mig 21 and newer airframe experience) how to "fly." Don't believe this? Check my IP address,. I am here in country doing it now.
Rest assured, they are NOT in a class that is considered anything near what western standards identify as proficiency.
The western media (ahem American) WILL mislead you and also have you believe that China is some superpower. I will tell you that they are no more than a very simple people struggling for their very own existence, gradually (and by that I mean extremely slowly) coming close to what America was in the early 1900's.
People should not be fooled by what they see in Beijing, Shanghai, and other "cities" that are simply modern as a result of foreign investment.
China does like to act though as if it is the one walking silently while carrying a big stick. The truth though is that they are extremely vulnerable and behind the times.
Fact.
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Do the Chinese have Nuclear Missiles that can reach U.S. territory?
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im sure they do, and in reference to the f22s you have what 4 working ones :), the time it would take to mass introduce f22s your factories will be gone , just sayin. ;)
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Do the Chinese have Nuclear Missiles that can reach U.S. territory?
Again, I would not put credible faith in the abilities of this country to successfully launch an attack without an utter and quick destruction of itself shortly thereafter.
Communications from the top down in China are upgraded to be sure, but nothing short of antiquated in western comparison.
Additionally, even given the option of having the newest of new technologies, this country would STILL be incompetent in its war waging efforts.
The Chinese people are against themselves more than anyone else and that is the sad real truth of the matter.
Some of you (if not most) are not truly aware of what this country does to allow it's military officers and other force personnel advance through the ranks. I'll give you all a hint: it isn't based on experience or skill levels, or knowledge for that matter.
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Originally posted by Yeager2
Some of you (if not most) are not truly aware of what this country does to allow it's military officers and other force personnel advance through the ranks. I'll give you all a hint: it isn't based on experience or skill levels, or knowledge for that matter.
Of course, that's always been the downfall of communist countries. Corruption that is typically left unchecked do to their secrecy.
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Of course, that's always been the downfall of communist countries. Corruption that is typically left unchecked do to their secrecy.
Well, the secrecy that exists is merely a drink or two away from being revealed with many of these people.
Again, this is the sad reality with their way of doing things. But it does make me smile inside knowing what I do know about their abilities and our actual abilities.
The American media is doing a good job though because they are constantly allowing the population to have an irrational fear of China and also give the population the ability to support the U.S government / armed forces to continue being one of the best (if not already truly the best) military force in the world.
The plan is going just fine.
:aok
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very good points timras. perhaps the chinese have read up on their history and realize that owning money is not as bad as lending money.
we mighty just do a philip IV on them.
that is always something to think about.
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Yeah, and what we do not see if the 8.5bill used a day to launch weapons platforms holding railguns and ion cannons and the likes.
"Point and click anyone?"
*HEY GUYS LOOK, 200 million targets!..weeee.*
"Pounds the launch, nuke,shoot,drop button"
....where did everybody go? :huh
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Originally posted by evenhaim
im sure they do, and in reference to the f22s you have what 4 working ones :), the time it would take to mass introduce f22s your factories will be gone , just sayin. ;)
Not going to tell you how many, but there are a lot more than 4 22s in service right now.
Mark