Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Swoop on October 01, 2007, 07:06:59 AM
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Short version: Any sod in British government from the P.M. down to the tea boy at the local council offices can now view details of anyone's phone calls whenever they like without a warrant.
The long version:
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=484752&in_page_id=1770&ct=5
Big Brother Britain: Government and councils to spy on ALL our phones
By JASON LEWIS - More by this author »
Last updated at 17:50pm on 30th September 2007
Officials from the top of Government to lowly council officers will be given unprecedented powers to access details of every phone call in Britain under laws coming into force tomorrow.
The new rules compel phone companies to retain information, however private, about all landline and mobile calls, and make them available to some 795 public bodies and quangos.
The move, enacted by the personal decree of Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, will give police and security services a right they have long demanded: to delve at will into the phone records of British citizens and businesses.
But the same powers will also be handed to the tax authorities, 475 local councils, and a host of other organisations, including the Food Standards Agency, the Department of Health, the Immigration Service, the Gaming Board and the Charity Commission. The initiative, formulated in the wake of the Madrid and London terrorist attacks of 2004 and 2005, was put forward as a vital tool in the fight against terrorism. However, civil liberties campaigners say the new powers amount to a 'free for all' for the State snooping on its citizens.
And they angrily questioned why the records were being made available to so many organisations. Similar provisions are being brought in across Europe, but under much tighter regulation. In Britain, say critics, private and sensitive information will inevitably fall into the wrong hands.
Records will detail precisely what calls are made, their time and duration, and the name and address of the registered user of the phone.
The files will even reveal where people are when they made mobile phone calls. By knowing which mast transmitted the signal, officials will be able to pinpoint the source of a call to within a few feet. This can even be used to track someone's route if, for example, they make a call from a moving car.
Files will also be kept on the sending and receipt of text messages.
By 2009 the Government plans to extend the rules to cover internet use: the websites we have visited, the people we have emailed and phone calls made over the net.
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has spearheaded the move to give police and security services access to the phone records of British citizens and businesses.
The new laws will make it a legal requirement for phone companies to keep records for at least a year, and to make them available to the authorities. Until now, companies have been reluctant to allow unfettered access to their files, citing data protection laws, although they have had a voluntary arrangement with law enforcement agencies since 2003.
Many of the organisations granted access to the records already have systems allowing them to search phone-call databases over a computer link without needing staff at the phone company to intervene.
Police requests for phone records will need the approval of a superintendent or inspector, while council officials must get permission from the authority's assistant chief officer. Thousands of staff in other agencies will be legally entitled to retrieve the records once the request is approved by a senior official.
The new measures were implemented after the Home Secretary signed a 'statutory instrument' on July 26. The process allows the Government to alter laws without a full act of Parliament.
The move was nodded through the House of Lords two days earlier without a debate.
It puts into UK law a European Directive aimed at the 'investigation, detection and prosecution of serious crime'. But the British law allows the information to be used much more widely to combat all crimes, however minor.
The huge number of organisations allowed to access this data was attacked by Liberty, the civil liberties campaign group. Other organisations allowed to see the data include the Royal Navy Regulating Branch, the Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary, the Department of Trade and Industry, NHS Trusts, ambulance and fire services, the Department of Transport and the Department for the Environment.
A spokesman for Liberty said: 'Hundreds of bodies have been given the power to look at this highly sensitive information. It is yet another example of how greater and greater access is being given to information on our movements with little debate and little public accountability.
'It is a free for all. There is a lack of oversight of how and why public bodies are using these records. There is no public record of what they are using this information for.'
Tony Bunyan, of civil liberties group Statewatch, said: 'The retention of everyone's communications data is a momentous decision, one that should not be slipped through Parliament without anyone noticing.'
Last year, the voluntary arrangement allowed 439,000 searches of phone records. But the Government brought in legislation because the industry did not routinely keep all the information it wanted.
Different authorities will have different levels of access to the systems. Police and intelligence services will be able to see more detailed information than local authorities. And officials at NHS Trusts and ambulance and fire services can obtain the records only in rare cases when, for example, they are trying to save a patient's life.
The new system will be overseen by the Interception of Communications Commissioner, who also ensures security and intelligence services' phone taps are legal.
The commissioner, Sir Paul Kennedy, reports to the Prime Minister and already carries out random inspections of some agencies legally allowed to see phone records under the existing voluntary scheme. Last year inspectors visited 22 councils already making 'significant' use of their powers' to access phone records. A report said the results were 'variable', but within the law.
Privacy watchdog the Information Commissioner, which has responsibly for protecting personal information and policing the Data Protection Act had virtually no role in the new laws.
A spokeswoman said its only function was to ensure 'data security' at the phone companies, adding: 'We have no oversight role over the release of this information.'
The Home Office said there were safeguards to ensure the new law was being used properly. Every authority had a nominated senior member of staff who was legally responsible for the use the phone data was put to, 'the integrity of the process' and for 'reporting errors'.
A spokesman said: 'The most detailed level of data can be accessed only by law enforcement agencies such as the police. More basic access is available to local authority bodies such as trading standards and environmental health who can only use these powers to prevent and detect crime.'
A spokesman for the Local Government Association, which represents councils across England and Wales, said: 'Councils would only use these powers in circumstances such as benefit fraud, when the taxpayer is being ripped off for many thousands of pounds.'
He added that it was 'very unlikely' the powers would be used against non-payers of council tax or for parking fines 'as the sums involved are not sufficient to justify the use of this sort of information or the costs involved in applying it'.
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get your firearms and.......oh........um....... ..er never mind you aren't a citizen you are a subject. I forgot.
:D
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well...if you are doing nothing wrong then...
Just kidding... I feel your pain. the "war on terror" sure seems like a convienient excuse to have a war on freedom and privacy.. I am sure that something close to that is headed our way.
The democrats here hate war.. war on other people that is.. soooo.. if they get in they will "make us safer" by spending money on "making us safer at home"
Disarm us and search us... listen in to make sure we don't say bad things about our government.... it is the way of socialism... you in england are just ahead of us in that department by a couple of decades... there are plenty of democrats here who envy socialism of england tho.
after all... you get "free" healthcare.. what else matters?
lazs
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Originally posted by storch
get your firearms and.......oh........um....... ..er never mind you aren't a citizen you are a subject. I forgot.
:D
Rofl I didn't see any gunmen on US streets when the Patriot Act was laid upon you. :rolleyes:
All the gov needs to do is threaten to shut down McDonalds and Wendy's etc. and 99% of population will bend over backwards in horror.. :D
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Not sure you're right about that MrRiplEy.
I mean, if if was done subtley and covertly........hell, not even then. The great British pastime used to be sitting around in pubs, drinking and smoking. And suddenly they stopped us doing that for the sake of all the poor widdle non-smokers out there with their delicate lungs who are apparently too stupid to go sit in the non-smoking area.
There was no revolution, no riots, no parades through Westminster with banners saying "save our smoke!", no, instead there was a petition. That was ignored.
Due to the fact that the power of peaceful demonstration is worthless in this country and the apathy of the general populous when it's suggested we could, actually, no really, make a difference.......bollocks, I want out.
One hard working, house trained Brit going free to a good home, all enquiries here pls.
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And the worst part is not the politicians in the UK, its the rest of the EU trying to catch up - wheels spinning.
How dare they still use Beethovens 9th. :mad:
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you could use the "patriot act" for protection.:aok
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come here and move to a semi rural area... if you move to a big blue city they will fawn over your accent and try to imitate you and cry about how they are not enough like england..
I am afraid that the women and womenly men have taken over... the whole civilized world is getting to be like moving back in with your mothers.
When I was in school... 1984 gave us nightmares but... we KNEW it could never happen... now.. we have gone past the book in many important things. and the women are screaming for more... more government in our lives...
We smugly tell people where and what they can smoke or consume and make em buckle up in their car... wear helmets... don't play with guns or knives... search em everywhere... metal detectors... random searches... it is like mom invading your room. nagging at us every day... global warming will make us go blind if we don't stop doing that!
There is no solution but to get away and wait it out or...just get far enough away that you will be dead before they get around to you.
I hold no hope for the xbox generation changing things.. they think women can beat up men and that AH builds up your hand eye co-ordination.
I don't want to be a martyr myself.. I don't need the money anymore.. don't need to play the game to get by... gonna move out a ways and let you guys cannibalize each other with a nagging trophy wife and woman anchor telling you what to do.
lazs
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they don't nag if you stuff something in their mouths.
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You must be a criminal or something Swoop, I have it on good authority from some on this board that only those doing wrong have anything to fear by this type of government activity.
shamus
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What about unregistered GSM numbers?
Or Skype? H2H? AH? OMG, the Ah BB!?!?!?!?!!
Anyway, maybe time to starting to say funny things on the phone, as well as breathing a lot :D
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Your country has gone insane, unfortunately mine is following not far behind. The good news is, getting out is easy. Just hop a flight and overstay your visa.
You don't even have to protest for your "rights" here, we've already got millions willing to do that for you. Just make sure you do it soon, you'll want to get in for the next round of amnesty.
We've probably got 10-15 years before our country gets as bad as yours. So, come on over and enjoy it while it lasts.
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Originally posted by Shamus
You must be a criminal or something Swoop
Actually.....yep.
But only because there are certain laws I totally disagree with in this country that I ignore. In other countries I wouldn't be. I tend to view laws are merely guidelines. For example, speeding.....during heavy traffic / bad conditions I can certainly see the sense in a 70mph limit. In the middle of the night when it's not peeing down I see no issue at all with belting down the M4 at 175mph. It's only a matter of time before the Filth is using my cell phone to track me exceeding the limit......
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with GPS tied into them you know that is just down the road but I envision a time when the car itself will rat you out. that is if they allow them to exceed limits in first place. the future may be filled with transponders of every flavor.
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All reminds me of Stasi. Did you see the German movie "Das leben der anderen", - lots of tapping there.
BTW, was at former Stasi HQ in Dresden ust the other day. Looked like something out of Nazi times....
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Re: the "I'm leaving" comment.
Who am I trying to kid?
Havn't actually found anywhere worth going to yet.
Tried Holland and while it's even easier to ignore officials over there than it is here, the indiginous population of the place is enough to drive anyone off.
When they start advertising for IT guys needed on the moon, I'm there.
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Maybe you should come over here. The beer, food and weather is practically the same. You can watch British TV and read British newspapers. The speed limit is 75 miles an hour and on single track boreens with grass growing down the middle it's 50 MPH. Only the money is different. You wouldn't be alone. There is an amazing number of English living here these days. No one thinks of Brits as foreigners. Ok you still can't smoke in pubs but we have a long history of ignoring laws we don't like, specially those enacted by British rulers:D And they certainly wouldn't get away with bugging our phone calls. Although I can't think why they would want to.
The trouble with the English is that you are too law abiding. You enact a law and then enforce it. In most of the world we enact laws and then promptly ignore it unless it suits us.
I remember, years ago reading a comment by a British police chief in which he commented that he looked forward to the day when you could be tracked by camera from the moment you left your house. I laughed then but I'm not laughing now.
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Originally posted by lazs2
come here and move to a semi rural area... if you move to a big blue city they will fawn over your accent and try to imitate you and cry about how they are not enough like england..
LOL, so true.
:lol
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Canada!
Oh Canada, lets go drink some beer.
And yes it is!
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See Rules #4, #5, #7 (last warning)
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Originally posted by Swoop
Re: the "I'm leaving" comment.
Who am I trying to kid?
Havn't actually found anywhere worth going to yet.
Tried Holland and while it's even easier to ignore officials over there than it is here, the indiginous population of the place is enough to drive anyone off.
When they start advertising for IT guys needed on the moon, I'm there.
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I know what you mean. Personally I gave up long ago.. I don't care about this kind of crap anymore. I've stopped following news and politics. 95% of people support these things and there's nothing you can do about it. As long as I'm able to have a passport and go abroad I don't care. I'm lucky to have a well paying job from which I can take as much time of as I want any time I want... At least I can travel around and maybe find a place where I'd like to settle down. It certainly won't be in Europe. Same crap everywhere with different flavors.
So far I like the US the best, but it seems to be impossible legally. Also it seems to be going to the same direction aswell.
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It isn't necessarily that 95% of people like this kind of thing. All it takes is enough people who have given up for those who do have the willingness to have their will imposed on the apathetic.
Make a decision and act on it. Even doing nothing is a decision and is in effect tacit support for what ever the energetic are willing to push. If you had a chance to object and didn't do so, don't beeyotch about the outcome.
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Originally posted by lazs2
listen in to make sure we don't say bad things about our government
Point of order: You DO realize that the the blatantly unconstitutional as established by a prior Supreme Court decision (came up under Ford's administration, I believe) that the President of the United States HAS NO AUTHORITY TO UNILATERALLY ORDER IT warrantless wiretapping was Dubya's personal baby, right? The Dems have been fighting that since it rolled out.
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Originally posted by mora
So far I like the US the best, but it seems to be impossible legally. Also it seems to be going to the same direction aswell.
There is he-haw difference between living in Europe and living in the US (or at least, living in the UK and living in the US). Same level of taxation, same level of government intrusion, same level of government bureaucracy, same level of government incompetence. I defy anyone who has actually lived in both (as opposed to having spent a two week holiday there) to claim otherwise.
The only real difference I've found is health care and the power of religious groups. Oh - and the weather's really nice.
As for anyone worried about government intrusion, I think if you ever found out the level of restrictions imposed on law enforcement over holding intelligence, you'd be shocked. This is an area I have some experience in.
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Originally posted by Swoop
There was no revolution, no riots, no parades through Westminster with banners saying "save our smoke!", no, instead there was a petition. That was ignored.
Well at least you had a petition. I was amazed that even the smokers bent over. It's funny everytime I criticize our smoking ban the reply is "But you don't smoke!". It shows how people are programmed these days.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Point of order: You DO realize that the the blatantly unconstitutional as established by a prior Supreme Court decision (came up under Ford's administration, I believe) that the President of the United States HAS NO AUTHORITY TO UNILATERALLY ORDER IT warrantless wiretapping was Dubya's personal baby, right? The Dems have been fighting that since it rolled out.
to their advantage. dubya's fast and loose playing with our civil rights have cost him a lot of support. I no longer consider myself republican and have registered as an independant.
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Originally posted by storch
to their advantage. dubya's fast and loose playing with our civil rights have cost him a lot of support. I no longer consider myself republican and have registered as an independant.
Here here! Any political party gets bad after a while, which is why President Washington said they were bad. They split the country and make the government even worse by giving fewer choices.
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Originally posted by Angus
What about unregistered GSM numbers?
Or Skype? H2H? AH? OMG, the Ah BB!?!?!?!?!!
Thats the funny bit, the ability for those likely to be involved in illegal activities to avoid this surveillance system is extremely simple.
A simple VPN tunnel and take your pick of voip applications.
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mora hit it.... "but you don't smoke"
the people who smoke will vote for more seatbelt enforcement.
everyone hates to see someone being free.. everyone wants to be free themselves in their mind but freedom scares the crap out of em. Making their own decisions scares the crap out of em.
I don't smoke but am horrified that a person can't allow people to smoke in the business that he owns.
I am disheartened when the people who I defend want to restrict me tho.
lazs
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Seatbelts are for smart drivers. All I have to say. :D
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ripley... if that was all you had to say that would be great. Say anything you want but don't tell me what to do.
I wear em in my hot rods.. I don't wear em in my Lincoln towne car... now... it is quite legal for anyone to not wear em in a limmo... that limmo of course would be.... wait for it.. a Lincoln towne car...
It is legal for children to not wear em on a freaking school bus for instance.
You don't have to wear em in a taxi.
all these vehicles drive on the same roads as everyone else...
lazs
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Well you can't help it if your laws are not consistent. That's hardly a reason not to follow them or see the reasoning behind them.
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I think that's a perfectly good reason to not to follow them.
I've not followed plenty of laws for much more trivial reasons than that.
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We're pretty close to being the United States of Europe. So give it just a lil time and you'll be out in the suburbs of Europe when you come here.
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"War is Peace
ignorance is strength
Freedom is Slavery"
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And stupid is as stupid does.
What on earth are you wittering about Cypher?
Ignorance is strength? War is peace? Load of bollocks if I ever heard it.
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1984
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The quote was double plus good.
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Originally posted by lazs2
come here and move to a semi rural area... if you move to a big blue city they will fawn over your accent and try to imitate you and cry about how they are not enough like england..
I am afraid that the women and womenly men have taken over... the whole civilized world is getting to be like moving back in with your mothers.
When I was in school... 1984 gave us nightmares but... we KNEW it could never happen... now.. we have gone past the book in many important things. and the women are screaming for more... more government in our lives...
We smugly tell people where and what they can smoke or consume and make em buckle up in their car... wear helmets... don't play with guns or knives... search em everywhere... metal detectors... random searches... it is like mom invading your room. nagging at us every day... global warming will make us go blind if we don't stop doing that!
There is no solution but to get away and wait it out or...just get far enough away that you will be dead before they get around to you.
I hold no hope for the xbox generation changing things.. they think women can beat up men and that AH builds up your hand eye co-ordination.
I don't want to be a martyr myself.. I don't need the money anymore.. don't need to play the game to get by... gonna move out a ways and let you guys cannibalize each other with a nagging trophy wife and woman anchor telling you what to do.
lazs
thinkin I am perhaps a bit older then you Lazs but ALREADY there!
got fed up and had an out and took it!
Just hope that Nevada continues to remain Nevada for maybe another 10 years?
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Originally posted by Swoop
And stupid is as stupid does.
What on earth are you wittering about Cypher?
Ignorance is strength? War is peace? Load of bollocks if I ever heard it.
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The title of the book is "1984" --just like the title of your post.
The quotes are from the party line of "Big Brother".
Give it a read. :cool:
Regards,
Sun
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I'm still of the opinion that it's a load of bollocks.
Orwell was/is a very weird writer.
The only thing that stands here is the "big brother is watching" idea.
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Did you read 1984?
(I read it on an english course in literature analysis in ... 1984)
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Yeah, 20 years ago, but I skimmed over all the weird stuff like strength is peace and fixated instead of stuff like room 101.
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Nineteen Eighty-Four (or 1984) is an English dystopian novel by George Orwell, published in 1949. It is the story of the life of the intellectual Winston Smith, his job in the Ministry of Truth, and his degradation by the totalitarian government of Oceania, the country in which he lives. It has been translated into sixty-two languages, and has deeply impressed itself in the English language. Nineteen Eighty-Four, its terms and language, and its author are bywords in discussions of personal privacy and state security. The adjective "Orwellian" describes actions and organizations characteristic of Oceania, the totalitarian society depicted in the novel, and the phrase "Big Brother is watching you" refers to invasive surveillance.
In turn, Nineteen Eighty-Four has been seen as revolutionary and politically dangerous and thus been banned by libraries in many countries. Along with Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley, and Fahrenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury, it is among the most famous dystopias in literature. TIME Magazine selected it as one of the 100-best English-language novels, from 1923 to the present.
Bollocks?
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No, the peace is slavery bit is bollocks.
ok, I'll be serious.
Freedom is not slavery, freedom means being free to starve, free to die of any one of a number of diseases, free to drink, smoke and eat myself into oblivion should I so wish. And we are not free.
As for ignorance is strength.....what?
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swoop... read it again.. you are a bright lad. The "slavery is freedom" line is enough to make it a relevant political book for all time.
Ignorance is strength I am sure you will get if you look around... look at the schools where learning is not as important as feeling ... look at the news and the tv shows.
The book scared the crap out of us Americans when it came out but now... all we would be scared of is the "room" the rest seems perfectly acceptable to a lot of us now.
lazs
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Originally posted by storch
with GPS tied into them you know that is just down the road but I envision a time when the car itself will rat you out.
Hate to bring bad news, but that future is now.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Hate to bring bad news, but that future is now.
you don't say. please expound that statement
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Originally posted by storch
you don't say. please expound that statement
Read it and weep. I think its just a matter of time before this becomes commonplace.
http://www.news.com/2100-1040-268747.html?legacy=cnet
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what a sad world my grandkids will inherit.
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I myself wonder if it will be here at that time, the way things are going now.
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Originally posted by Swoop
No, the peace is slavery bit is bollocks.
ok, I'll be serious.
Freedom is not slavery, freedom means being free to starve, free to die of any one of a number of diseases, free to drink, smoke and eat myself into oblivion should I so wish. And we are not free.
As for ignorance is strength.....what?
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I'm going to assume you have never read "1984". That is the only explenation as to your level of ignorance about that quote.
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Originally posted by Aqualung
Read it and weep. I think its just a matter of time before this becomes commonplace.
http://www.news.com/2100-1040-268747.html?legacy=cnet
And this news is from 2001.
Six years is an eternity in technology advancement these days.
Imagine what they've got NOW.
Regards,
Sun
Electric Eye
Up here in space
I'm looking down on you
My lasers trace
Everything you do
You think you've private lives
Think nothing of the kind
There is no true escape
I'm watching all the time
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm elected electric spy
I'm protected electric eye
Always in focus
You can't feel my stare
I zoom into you
but You don't know I'm there
I take a pride in probing all your secret moves
My tearless retina takes pictures that can prove
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm elected electric spy
I'm protected electric eye
Electric eye, in the sky
Feel my stare, always there
There's nothing you can do about it
Develop and expose
I feed upon your every thought
And so my power grows
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm elected electric spy
I'm protected electric eye
I'm elected electric spy
I'm elected protective, detective, Electric Eye!
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Cypher, I feel the need to retaliate with comments about ignorance of how to spell but instead I'm just going to point out that it was 20 years ago and if you're so bloody clever why don't you explain it to me.
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I'm glad I live where I do. No crime to mention of, can leave the house and cars unlocked. Leave the Sons bike out front and it's always there in the morning. He rides his bike to school and no one needs to lock their bikes up. Great schools here also.
If the dog gets loose, sooner or later he'll come home or a neighbor will call and give me his last location. Most of the folks around here even knows the neighborhood dogs names.
BBQs galore here and everyone invites everyone.
Ducks and geese in the pond. Rabbits and deer pass thru the area often.
It took me awhile to get use to this place 12 years ago... the kindness kinda made me feel like they wanted something from me. But that was just because I lived in alotta bad spots and was always protective. Then I realized it was just the kindness from the heart that made this place the way it is.
I'm proud to call this place Home.
There's no place like Home.
:aok
Mac
I'd like to tell you where it is but who wants a bunch of N00Bs and Dweebs vulchin the Hood or spawn campin next to the picnic tables?
:D
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Originally posted by Swoop
Cypher, I feel the need to retaliate with comments about ignorance of how to spell but instead I'm just going to point out that it was 20 years ago and if you're so bloody clever why don't you explain it to me.
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Gladly. The quote i mentioned is from the book "1984". The OP mentioned Big Brother from the book. Big Brother was the leader in the story. The "Party's" slogan was "War is Peace, Freedom is slavery, Ignorance is Strength." Big Brother was a tyrant. In that story people were arrested and killed for "THought Crime", or doing anything that could be seen as against the "Party". The "Party" wanted people to believe that everything about freedom is a lie.
In short, my original post was simply adding upon the Big Brother comment.
Also, my comment about "your level of ignorance" was not meant to bring your IQ into question. I said that because you seemed to have no idea what that quote meant.
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Originally posted by AWMac
I'm glad I live where I do. No crime to mention of, can leave the house and cars unlocked. Leave the Sons bike out front and it's always there in the morning. He rides his bike to school and no one needs to lock their bikes up. Great schools here also.
If the dog gets loose, sooner or later he'll come home or a neighbor will call and give me his last location. Most of the folks around here even knows the neighborhood dogs names.
BBQs galore here and everyone invites everyone.
Ducks and geese in the pond. Rabbits and deer pass thru the area often.
It took me awhile to get use to this place 12 years ago... the kindness kinda made me feel like they wanted something from me. But that was just because I lived in alotta bad spots and was always protective. Then I realized it was just the kindness from the heart that made this place the way it is.
I'm proud to call this place Home.
There's no place like Home.
:aok
Mac
I'd like to tell you where it is but who wants a bunch of N00Bs and Dweebs vulchin the Hood or spawn campin next to the picnic tables?
:D
But I live there too!
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Originally posted by Swoop
And suddenly they stopped us doing that for the sake of all the poor widdle non-smokers out there with their delicate lungs who are apparently too stupid to go sit in the non-smoking area.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
No comment on the thread, but... I would like to point out that a smoking section in an establishment is like having a pissing section in a pool. :/
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Originally posted by Octavius
No comment on the thread, but... I would like to point out that a smoking section in an establishment is like having a pissing section in a pool. :/
Maybe, but shouldn't the owner have the right to decide what goes on inside his business? If you don't like it, don't go in there. There are plenty of other places to eat, drink, etc.
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I live in Britain.
I see no crime.
I see beautiful rolling fields from my bedroom window and a couple of valleys.
On a Sunday morning I hear the Church bells only 500 yards away. Most mornings I hear the cows in the field over yonder. The pub is a short walk away and serves real beer from local breweries.
There is a strong sense of community. The local primary school is highly rated. My kids maybe will one day go there.
I can cycle along trails in the woods to work and be there in 30 minutes.
If there is a God, then Britain is his country.
I like Britain. I won't be leaving anytime soon.
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Think its bad over there? Wait for Hillary to be pres and the US LIBERAL gov to be in charge of your healthcare:
link (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1035832)
They’re watching you right now.
They counted every beer you drank during last night’s Red Sox [team stats] game.
They see you sneaking out to the garage for a smoke.
They know if you’ve got a gun, and where you keep it.
They’re your kids, and they’re the National Security Agency of the Nanny State.
I found this out after my 13-year-old daughter’s annual checkup. Her pediatrician grilled her about alcohol and drug abuse.
Not my daughter’s boozing. Mine.
“The doctor wanted to know how much you and mom drink, and if I think it’s too much,” my daughter told us afterward, rolling her eyes in that exasperated 13-year-old way. “She asked if you two did drugs, or if there are drugs in the house.”
“What!” I yelped. “Who told her about my stasher, I mean, ‘It’s an outrage!’ ”
I turned to my wife. “You took her to the doctor. Why didn’t you say something?”
She couldn’t, she told me, because she knew nothing about it. All these questions were asked in private, without my wife’s knowledge or consent.
“The doctor wanted to know how we get along,” my daughter continued. Then she paused. “And if, well, Daddy, if you made me feel uncomfortable.”
Great. I send my daughter to the pediatrician to find out if she’s fit to play lacrosse, and the doctor spends her time trying to find out if her mom and I are drunk, drug-addicted sex criminals.
We’re not alone, either. Thanks to guidelines issued by the American Academy of Pediatrics and supported by the commonwealth, doctors across Massachusetts are interrogating our kids about mom and dad’s “bad” behavior.
We used to be proud parents. Now, thanks to the AAP, we’re “persons of interest.”
The paranoia over parents is so strong that the AAP encourages doctors to ignore “legal barriers and deference to parental involvement” and shake the children down for all the inside information they can get.
And that information doesn’t stay with the doctor, either.
Debbie is a mom from Uxbridge who was in the examination room when the pediatrician asked her 5-year-old, “Does Daddy own a gun?”
When the little girl said yes, the doctor began grilling her and her mom about the number and type of guns, how they are stored, etc.
If the incident had ended there, it would have merely been annoying.
But when a friend in law enforcement let Debbie know that her doctor had filed a report with the police about her family’s (entirely legal) gun ownership, she got mad.
She also got a new doctor.
In fact, the problem of anti-gun advocacy in the examining room has become so widespread that some states are considering legislation to stop it.
Last year, my 7-year-old was asked about my guns during his physical examination. He promptly announced to the doctor that his father is the proud owner of a laser sighted plasma rifle perfect for destroying Throggs.
At least as of this writing, no police report has been filed.
“I still like my previous pediatrician,” Debbie told me. “She seemed embarrassed to ask the gun questions and apologized afterward. But she didn’t seem to have a choice.”
Of course doctors have a choice.
They could choose, for example, to ask me about my drunken revels, and not my children.
They could choose not to put my children in this terrible position.
They could choose, even here in Massachusetts, to leave their politics out of the office.
But the doctors aren’t asking us parents.
They’re asking our kids.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Think its bad over there? Wait for Hillary to be pres and the US LIBERAL gov to be in charge of your healthcare:
link (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1035832)
Wow, bj, this is outrageous!
Thanks, for the eye-opening link.
Regards,
Sun
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Originally posted by Dowding
I live in Britain.
I see no crime.
I see beautiful rolling fields from my bedroom window and a couple of valleys.
On a Sunday morning I hear the Church bells only 500 yards away. Most mornings I hear the cows in the field over yonder. The pub is a short walk away and serves real beer from local breweries.
There is a strong sense of community. The local primary school is highly rated. My kids maybe will one day go there.
I can cycle along trails in the woods to work and be there in 30 minutes.
If there is a God, then Britain is his country.
I like Britain. I won't be leaving anytime soon.
Where the hell do you live?
Cos it aint like that in Bristol.....
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
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I suggest you move to Iran.
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Yorkshire. God's own county. :)
I think there are crap-holes everywhere. But there are gems too.
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Dowding obviously doesn't live in burley, leeds either. Though all cities have horrible areas. I'm guessing it's not bradford or you would have said allah's own country :D . Where do you live?
Bristol is ok, i'm probably moving back down to plymouth next year.
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Bristol is ok?
Are you having a laugh?
Bristol has the worst parts of everything. It's a huge city but I know of one (count em, one) 24 hour garage. Every other garage seems to be staffed by people who can't speak English. And I've yet to find an English speaking taxi / bus driver either.
Trying to do anything except sleep at night requires a drive to somewhere else, anywhere else. As far as I can tell, the favorite activity for the kids in this place is to drive to the services on the M5 and play arcade games after racing thier poxy 1.1l Ford Focus's around the city center until 2am.
The traffic is absolutely awful, and since no sod seems to know how to drive with haste in this damn town there's generally tail backs for miles at every junction.
The local yokels are the worst mix of tractor pulling numpties and chavs who seem to think that wearing a cap sideways makes em look cool but the effect is spoiled when they take off their shoes and socks in order to be able to count above 10.
The city center is full of some seriously tacky pubs and clubs, the kinda places where the lights really have to be set low so you cant see what you're treading in. And by Christ the strip clubs are naff.
Bristol sucks. It's trying to be London but it's more like Yokelville.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
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I live in a fairly nice farming community but there is a group of landlords who all cashed in on the section 8 housing scam to get rich and moved a whole bunch of negros from the bay area here who have no jobs and... obviously.. are on welfare (section 8)
crime is way up and they wander the streets day and night... time to move.
lazs
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lol Swoop, you paint a pretty picture. You didn't mention SS Great Britain, Brunel's great ship. That has to at least make up for the Chavi Ford Focus malarkey.
Thrila - I live just outside Sheffield. Just where the Pennines and the Peak District starts. I like Sheffield. It has a decent city centre, but within 15 minutes you are in a National Park or rural villages. Most of the old steel industry is dead, apart from the small specialist companies, but there is still good employment for your professional types. It has good road links to the rest of the country too.
Also it rains here less than Manchester. :)
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
All the gov needs to do is threaten to shut down McDonalds and Wendy's etc. and 99% of population will bend over backwards in horror.. :D
No, they're too fat to do that :rofl