Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: IronDog on October 02, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
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I don't know why most people think cherry picking is a bad thing.Cherry picking is nothing more than good flying,and it should be applauded.Believe it or not most the good pilots in WWII got most of their kills via cherry picking.Does never seen what hit them ring any bells?!It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.rinse and repeat.Furballers create the pickers by doing just that.No furballs,no pickers.Do I enjoy getting picked...heck no,but I can appreciate the effort put in by the picker.I notice most the good furball pilots,are the most vocal when they get picked.Does (*&$#@! picker sound familiar? :lol.many of the aircraft in AH are made for picking,and not for furballing.Oh some of the better sticks can turn fight in a picker,but they aren't made for it.Next time you get picked,give that skilled picker a big
!
IronDog
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Originally posted by IronDog
I don't know why most people think cherry picking is a bad thing.Cherry picking is nothing more than good flying,and it should be applauded.Believe it or not most the good pilots in WWII got most of their kills via cherry picking.Does never seen what hit them ring any bells?!It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.rinse and repeat.Furballers create the pickers by doing just that.No furballs,no pickers.Do I enjoy getting picked...heck no,but I can appreciate the effort put in by the picker.I notice most the good furball pilots,are the most vocal when they get picked.Does (*&$#@! picker sound familiar? :lol.many of the aircraft in AH are made for picking,and not for furballing.Oh some of the better sticks can turn fight in a picker,but they aren't made for it.Next time you get picked,give that skilled picker a big !
IronDog
and the Dork award goes to................IronDog!
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Originally posted by IronDog
I don't know why most people think cherry picking is a bad thing.Cherry picking is nothing more than good flying,and it should be applauded.Believe it or not most the good pilots in WWII got most of their kills via cherry picking.Does never seen what hit them ring any bells?!It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.rinse and repeat.Furballers create the pickers by doing just that.No furballs,no pickers.Do I enjoy getting picked...heck no,but I can appreciate the effort put in by the picker.I notice most the good furball pilots,are the most vocal when they get picked.Does (*&$#@! picker sound familiar? :lol.many of the aircraft in AH are made for picking,and not for furballing.Oh some of the better sticks can turn fight in a picker,but they aren't made for it.Next time you get picked,give that skilled picker a big !
IronDog
troll much?
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No troll,sticks and stones etc.SkyRock has a very bad inferiority complex!
IronDog
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Originally posted by IronDog
It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.
Heh. Reminds me of Peter Ustinov's line to Olivier in "Spartacus": "Brilliant dagger thrust at a difficult angle."
- oldman
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Picking a con on a countryman's six is fine, on his twelve is bad form.
shamus
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I'm giving this a 1. The "but that's how real war is fought" argument has never really had any relevancy here. This isn't real, nor is it war. We are playing cartoon airplanes. Avoiding taking risks at all costs- not something I personally consider skillful, but ymmv.
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Is the "cherry picking" not by definition something like disregarding the bad berries and only taking the best and sweetest ones? ;)
I agree with IronDog.
It is not that special to kill someone after a lot of yanking and banking. It happens all the time. However, it is much more rare to be able to "humiliate" :rolleyes: someone so fully and completely that he has no idea what hit him.
I might list the kills from best to worst (IMHO) like this:
- cherry pickings.
- quick kills from a good shooting position after good move or two.
- successful deflection shots from more difficult positions.
- wrestling and sweating it out with ACMs after having been stupid and having blown the advantage.
- risking a HO shot and winning.
The deaths (from least to most humiliating) go pretty much in opposite order:
- risking HO and losing.
- dieing or crashing after a long yank and bank, which was initiated due to loss of SA or some other mistake.
- not reacting strongly enough to a "smaller threat" situation and getting blow out with a good shot.
- losing it quickly after a move or two.
- getting blown out without knowing what hit me.
So.. IMO winning or losing a HO are pretty close to each other. In any case the decision has been mine to take it due to some reason or another.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
and the Dork award goes to................IronDog!
No way, you have had that one sowed up for ages! :D
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I just saw the term "skill" used in the same sentence as "picker". Irondog I can see where this is going....
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/97828KQsp_w.jpg)
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Originally posted by IronDog
IronDog has a very bad inferiority complex!
That would explain the need to be dweeby enough to brag about chery picking in a game about dogfighting.:rolleyes:
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P38's an P47's won't turn fight my spitty :cry :cry :cry
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IronDog, do you pick your nose while picking planes to pick?
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SO how long til we see the furballing os OK thread so that IronDog can jump in that one and tell you you are all dweebs?
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I was going to quote skyrock but I think his comment is irrelevant. There is much more to AH than just dogfighting and tree hopping (frog humping). Some of the best kills involve a ruse by one player and a knife in the back by another. Cherry picking is the dead guy writing his own epitaph (cherry picking = I was stupid and didnt see that guy). You will know when this happens because they will first attack you on 200 and if you dont respond or have enough class to ignore them they will always tune you in private and insult you that way. You dont have to be above them and come down with smash because often enough they are so fixated on their target they dont even know their six exists anymore. Noobs are worse about this because they even ignore six calls. No excuse in someone with any experience at all claiming a cherry because they should know better.
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Originally posted by IronDog
I don't know why most people think cherry picking is a bad thing.Cherry picking is nothing more than good flying,and it should be applauded.Believe it or not most the good pilots in WWII got most of their kills via cherry picking.Does never seen what hit them ring any bells?!It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.rinse and repeat.Furballers create the pickers by doing just that.No furballs,no pickers.Do I enjoy getting picked...heck no,but I can appreciate the effort put in by the picker.I notice most the good furball pilots,are the most vocal when they get picked.Does (*&$#@! picker sound familiar? :lol.many of the aircraft in AH are made for picking,and not for furballing.Oh some of the better sticks can turn fight in a picker,but they aren't made for it.Next time you get picked,give that skilled picker a big !
IronDog
Now that I have a rough idea of what that is, I guess I would "cherry pick" given the opportunity. I feel that a majority (IMHO) of MA battlers would do the same. There are those who feel that their approach to the game is the only viable or real methodology, however it always seems to favor their strengths. There is nothing wrong with this, we all (I assume) try to create or take advantage of situations that favor our skill level, plane, etc. The pilots that complain the loudest about this, I think you will find they prefer 1 vs 1 type engagements. Not that they cannot handle other setups as well! As an admitted lowly recovering newb and working on my 3rd tour, I will take any kill shot when offered(except HO, which really is a Spitfire related decision). My thought is don't hang it out there, unless you want it blown off. I appreciate the chivalrous attitude, but it has no place in cartoon plane fighting. Issue your salute to the guy that just smoked you, and adjust your tactics so it does not happen in the future. A kill is a kill. If it's red, it's dead.
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Originally posted by john9001
P38's an P47's won't turn fight my spitty :cry :cry :cry
ill turn fight your spitty in either makes for a fun fight most the times i lose but dying is worth having a good fight to me in the cartoon plane world
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Geezus Skyrock your a school teacher,and you can't spell.Oh well Texas, halfwit,yah it makes sense LOL!!!
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Picking is a reality of the MA. I can't see an argument for saying it is 'wrong'. However, claiming picking takes skill is laughable. By definition a picker is giving himself 2 to 1 odds or better. Any effort load being placed on the picker is due solely to the skill of the outnumbered target plane, or lack of skill of the picker.
A picker is not looking for a fight. They are looking for a kill. Complaints only hit home when the picker knows they wouldn't stand a chance in a "fight" with the victim.
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Originally posted by IronDog
I don't know why most people think cherry picking is a bad thing.Cherry picking is nothing more than good flying,and it should be applauded.Believe it or not most the good pilots in WWII got most of their kills via cherry picking.Does never seen what hit them ring any bells?!It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.rinse and repeat.Furballers create the pickers by doing just that.No furballs,no pickers.Do I enjoy getting picked...heck no,but I can appreciate the effort put in by the picker.I notice most the good furball pilots,are the most vocal when they get picked.Does (*&$#@! picker sound familiar? :lol.many of the aircraft in AH are made for picking,and not for furballing.Oh some of the better sticks can turn fight in a picker,but they aren't made for it.Next time you get picked,give that skilled picker a big !
IronDog
Dogfighting is just like sex, the longer, the better.
Cherry picking is like pleasuring yourself.
Your pick...
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Originally posted by Murdr
Picking is a reality of the MA. I can't see an argument for saying it is 'wrong'. However, claiming picking takes skill is laughable. By definition a picker is giving himself 2 to 1 odds or better. Any effort load being placed on the picker is due solely to the skill of the outnumbered target plane, or lack of skill of the picker.
A picker is not looking for a fight. They are looking for a kill. Complaints only hit home when the picker knows they wouldn't stand a chance in a "fight" with the victim.
word
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HiTech himself has said that the whole goal of this game is to piss off the other guy.
So now when I pick a juicy, target-fixated, "I'm-not-responsible-for-my-own-6-because-these-are-cartoon-planes" cherry, and then he gets all pissed-off and whiny on channel 200, I think to myself "Mission Accomplished."
Now don't get me wrong - I love a good turn and burn session (and actually, I really love trying to defend a base that's getting overwhelmed - lots of targets and good turnfighting despite lots of deaths, but I digress), but I really don't get the anti-cherry picking arguments much. Here's why:
(and this is longer than I expected - sorry in advance)
When someone complains about getting HO-ed all the time, most of the experienced pilots will say something like "It is easy to dodge the HO," or "You should be able to see the HO coming from a mile away and avoid it," or "You can use their HO attempt to your advantage." It is a matter of being aware of your surroundings and denying the HO shot, and if you can think far enough ahead, plan a countermove.
Getting picked is, to me, basically the same thing - the "pick-ee" isn't completely aware of their surroundings, and they've chosen to engage a turnfight where their rear quarter is facing a potential picker at just the right time -- in other words, the Pick-ee isn't denying the Cherry Picker a good shot -- and in fact, they could be setting up a great shot inadvertantly. Good picker's go for "good targets," not just "any target" in the furball, and a good target is one that just isn't paying attention AND has chosen to start a poorly-planned turnfight.
I can't tell you the last time I've been picked successfully (just as how I haven't been successfully HO-ed in at least two months either), because you can deny the picker a good shot and/or make other targets in the furball look more attractive. Remember the joke about not having to outrun the angry grizzly bear, but just your chubby hunting partner, Fred? Well when you're in a furball with pickers orbiting around, if you make an effort to pay attention, you really can figure out which picker is ready to dive in, what direction they're probably going to go, and where they'll probably climb away. My goal is to NOT be there when they do, and if that means passing on the left-turning bogey 400 in front of me because it is going to drag me into the picker's path, then that's the thing to do. Honestly, someone else who doesn't see the danger can take that guy, and that's going to be the new cherry.
So, getting back to being the Cherry Picker instead of the Cherry. I sincerely believe it is possible to avoid being the cherry when in a furball - you just need to pay attention and look around all the time, and I mean ALL THE TIME, and avoid the danger zones. If you aren't doing that, or choosing not to do that, then why should I feel bad for shooting you down as the Picker? (Hint: I don't.)
And if you complain about it on channel 200 after I Cherry Pick you, please refer to the first line of this reply. "Mission Accomplished."
Learning to not be a Cherry is as important a skill as dueling, if not moreso since honest dueling normally only happens in the DA and denying the pick happens all the time, every day, in every other arena. It is a learned skill and much tougher than just whining about how you were the juicy Cherry, which is probably why we are seeing a lot of whining about it these days...
(Ducking and Covering already..)
-Llama
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I'll take getting picked anyday, as long as i got the guy i was initially fighting, even if i see the picker barreling in. Worse is to let the first guy go and avoid a pick, only to be killed by the guy who's tail you were on.
The best, although it doesn't happen very often, is getting the picker to killshoot himself on the guy he's saving, then killing your intitial target.
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If your personal goals are:
- winning the war
- getting a top score
...then, picking & ganging is the most effective way to do it.
Think of it as "sanitizing strategic airspace" via overwhelming firepower.
If, however, your goals are:
- having good quality fights with like-skilled opponents
- bettering your ACM skills to the top level
- gaining respect from the AH player community in general
...then picking & ganging is definitely NOT the way to go.
Comes down to what you're looking to get out of the game, and what means
"fun" to you.
I'm of the opinion that players looking to win the war/score-race should stick to
the MAs, and players looking for good clean fights should stick to the
AvA or DA.
I don't judge or hassle either type of player - it's their dime.
Compromise solution - but I see it as the only way to make everyone happy.
I'm also of the personal opinion that there's certain skilled players out
there who are AFRAID to fight clean fights against like-skilled opponents.
They only look to fight LESSER skilled opponents using "Gentleman's Rules" as to
completely dominate them - and then subsequently get off on rubbing the loser's
face it in.
These are the types who Yell and Scream that everyone should fight via
"Gentleman's Rules", yet they never go into the AvA or DA for fear of
losing to other players close in skill to themselves.
You also have another breed of player who only cries "foul" when they
are a victim of picking/ganging - yet they partake in said activities
indiscriminately - which is why they only fly in the MAs.
It's a sad fact that the AvA and DA are almost always empty - it frustrates
me to no end. I also deeply respect anyone who hangs out regularly in the
AvA/DA - they make the game fun for me. :)
Shamroc
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hehehehehe
Funny thread.
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Me and a few guys were discussing the other night about 262's and how they fight.Well,if I am wrong then please correct me,but basically a 262 is a glorified cherry picker?I mean,I have yet to see a 262 get in the middle of a fur-ball and turn fight..What I see is a 262 come zooming in,hit someone,and then fly out get their E back,then come ZOOOMMMING back in to get another kill or 2..
So I guess my question:
Is a 262 only an emergency cherry picker for whichever country is flying it??
Kevin
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Originally posted by RedTop
hehehehehe
Funny thread.
agreed, got popcorn? :D
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Originally posted by MjTalon
agreed, got popcorn? :D
Coors Light?
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This thread is like a thief telling you it's alright that he robed your house because he wiped his feet before he entered your home.
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Originally posted by Xargos
This thread is like a thief telling you it's alright that he robed your house because he wiped his feet before he entered your home.
I think it's very sad that you equate being cherry picked to being robbed.
Being robbed is a totally passive thing -- you aren't responsible (most of the time) if you are robbed. It is just bad luck of the draw.
I believe that being picked is NOT bad luck of the draw. It is due to the pick-ee being inattentive to their surroundings, either intentionally or unintentionally, and putting themselves in harm's way without regards for the consequences.
In other words, being robbed is a passive activity that you had nothing to do with. Being cherry picked is an active activity that you could have prevented, but didn't.
Two very different things. Two very different attitudes.
-Llama
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Geesh, the weaklings come out in force to defend their weakboy ways!:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Geesh, the weaklings come out in force to defend their weakboy ways!:rolleyes:
That's not much of a defense for your lack of situational awareness in furballs if you're getting Picked, and judging from your ch200 chatter, it seems you're getting picked a lot, Skyrock.
As I said earlier, it is easier to complain about being picked than it is to learn how not to be. You've obviously learned a lot of skills to get as good as you are. Why not try to learn another one?
-Llama
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You obviously have never studied criminology.
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Originally posted by Xargos
You obviously have never studied criminology.
Hmmm. I was thinking of getting your house robbed while you were on vacation (a passive activity) rather than getting mugged on the street (an active one), which is I guess is your angle.
New Point taken.
Still, you said things like "robbing your home" and "wiping their feet" (presumably on a welcome mat) in your original metaphor, so I hope you can see where I'm coming from.
-Llama
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Dressing down and not wearing a lot of gold lowers your chances of being robbed on the street. I have nothing of value in my place anyway, my EX got everything...You want her address?
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Originally posted by Xargos
Dressing down and not wearing a lot of gold lowers your chances of being robbed on the street.
please see my edited response, above. Sorry for the lack of continuity.
-Llama
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My point is some people try to justify what they do, like they know they are doing something wrong.
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Originally posted by Xargos
Dressing down and not wearing a lot of gold lowers your chances of being robbed on the street. I have nothing of value in my place anyway, my EX got everything...You want her address?
Hmm, I couldn't let this one pass.
Your sentence suggests you're more likely to be mugged by NOT taking certain steps, such as dressing down and not wearing a lot of gold. (As a native new yorker who lived there in the bad old 1970's, I can relate to this good advice.) Good.
We're pretty much saying the same thing. Let me rewrite your sentence to say:
Increasing your situational awareness and not following every enemy in a dogfight without looking first lowers your chances of being cherry picked in the furball.
Same idea, namely "Take responsibility for what may happen to you. Act stupid at your own peril."
-Llama
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Now you and I are on the same page.
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Originally posted by Xargos
My point is some people try to justify what they do, like they know they are doing something wrong.
One should always have a reason for their actions either way, regardless of how they are perceived, in life as well as in AH. That little speech of mine falls into this category.
-Llama
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Originally posted by Xargos
Now you and I are on the same page.
Cool! So let's summarize. We agree on the statement:
"Take responsibility for what may happen to you. Act stupid at your own peril."
So my take on the whole Cherry Picking thing is this:
"You can avoid being cherry picked by taking responsibility for your own 6, and being aware of what the Pickers orbiting the furball are trying to do. If you act stupid and ignore them and ignore your own 6, you do so at your own peril."
And if you can avoid (or learn the skills to avoid) being picked, then there's no need to complain about it. Ever.
That's really all I'm really trying to say here.
-Llama
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Geesh, the weaklings come out in force to defend their weakboy ways!:rolleyes:
They need to start a 12 step self help group...Timid Cherry Pickers Anonymous.
ack-ack
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And there is no point in trying to justify it if you feel you are doing nothing wrong. You can fly however you feel, it's your $14.95. But you can't force people to respect you or your tactics.
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Originally posted by llama
That's not much of a defense for your lack of situational awareness in furballs if you're getting Picked, and judging from your ch200 chatter, it seems you're getting picked a lot, Skyrock.
As I said earlier, it is easier to complain about being picked than it is to learn how not to be. You've obviously learned a lot of skills to get as good as you are. Why not try to learn another one?
-Llama
:rofl why don't you try out my SA and see how long you last. You'll get slapped back to the tower quicker than you can run in ur dora!
:aok
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Originally posted by SkyRock
:rofl why don't you try out my SA and see how long you last. You'll get slapped back to the tower quicker than you can run in ur dora!
:aok
Poor skyrock. Thinks he knows me. Or what I fly. Or how I fly.
I haven't flown a dora since 2004.
We've only killed each other within furballs in turnfights - I've never picked you.
The fact remains that you get picked all the time and I hardly ever do, and we fly in the exact same main arena. Take from that what you will...
Llama
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Originally posted by Xargos
And there is no point in trying to justify it if you feel you are doing nothing wrong. You can fly however you feel, it's your $14.95. But you can't force people to respect you or your tactics.
Xargos,
I'm merely presenting a Cherry-Picking counterpoint for pilots like Skyrock and others, who as you put it, try to force people to respect them or their tactics.
Llama
PS. And to those I've pissed off with these comments, "Mission Accomplished." :aok
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Originally posted by llama
Hmmm. I was thinking of getting your house robbed while you were on vacation (a passive activity) rather than getting mugged on the street (an active one), which is I guess is your angle.
New Point taken.
Still, you said things like "robbing your home" and "wiping their feet" (presumably on a welcome mat) in your original metaphor, so I hope you can see where I'm coming from.
-Llama
Leave Serenity being mugged out of this!
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The wonderful irony is that every cherry picks..... every single pilot who even rarely enters furballs in the MA cherry picks. Skyrock picks when the chance arises, just like everyone else in the MA.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
The wonderful irony is that every cherry picks..... every single pilot who even rarely enters furballs in the MA cherry picks. Skyrock picks when the chance arises, just like everyone else in the MA.
*gasp*
Bronk
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All u contrarians reply with carefully worded posts. U are laughable at best. You all cherry pick u all know u cherry pick.
U all are talking krap about yourselves.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
The wonderful irony is that every cherry picks..... every single pilot who even rarely enters furballs in the MA cherry picks. Skyrock picks when the chance arises, just like everyone else in the MA.
I think the point some are trying to make that there are pilots that are too timid to do anything else. A good example is Senneca that milk runs in the MW.
ack-ack
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I am still waiting to hear if a 262 is what one would call an "emergency cherry picker"..not trying to rile anyone up,just looking for opinions..
Kevin
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Originally posted by FireDrgn
All u contrarians reply with carefully worded posts. U are laughable at best. You all cherry pick u all know u cherry pick.
U all are talking krap about yourselves.
I rarely cherry pick. I posted only once in this thread and only mentioned Serenity being mugged.
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Cherry picking is neither good nor bad...it is just part of the game. Generally speaking, I will try to ask is the friendly needs help before I enter someone else's fight. Personally, I much prefer to hunt the pickers instead of the cherries. Picker whines are always vintage. :D
In the end, if you fly like a cherry...somebody is gonna make a pie out of you. :)
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Originally posted by falcon23
I am still waiting to hear if a 262 is what one would call an "emergency cherry picker"..not trying to rile anyone up,just looking for opinions..
Kevin
I completely understand where you are coming from, 262 is more a horde exterminator, but, if you aren't good at killn, then u will eventually dweeb out!:aok
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I think the point some are trying to make that there are pilots that are too timid to do anything else. A good example is Senneca that milk runs in the MW.
ack-ack
Ahhh I see.
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AKAK, you need a hug!
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The reasons I cherry pick:
1. Because I can
2. La7 was built to cherry and ho if you think different you ant flying it right.
3. You CANT STOP ME FROM DOING IT AGAIN.
4. I know Skyrock will scream like a little girl on 200.
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"Cherry picking is O.K.!!"
Is this a support group?
...I was looking for "Spending Perks on a budget".
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ok...mission accomplished!got my point across.skyrock ur a heck of a stick,and I was just yanking ur chain,...like u do to others11;) fight the way u want folks,it's ur $14.95.
IronDog
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I would reather do a Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann than anything else it this game :)
http://www.amazon.com/Blond-Knight-Germany-Raymond-Toliver/dp/0830681892/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5017931-4971328?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191448922&sr=8-1
So ya "cherry picking" this way is way "ok" with me .
You all might really listen to NoBaddy more , I know I do .
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Originally posted by airspro
You all might really listen to NoBaddy more , I know I do .
Well, I'm not sure about it....but, this sounds like a mistake!! :)
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He only said we should listen to you- he's not said that you're right, or that we should follow your advice. :)
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Dogfighting is just like sex, the longer, the better.
Cherry picking is like pleasuring yourself.
Your pick...
Sig material - few words, much wisdom!!:aok
(They say you will eventually go blind but I have proof its only temporary!!)
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Originally posted by SkyRock
That would explain the need to be dweeby enough to brag about chery picking in a game about dogfighting.:rolleyes:
Not to validate or condone cherry picking either way, but simply to point out that some people who mouth-off just to annoy others or tell someone else what is the right and wrong way to play this game, don't have a clue about what they are spouting most of the time.
"dog·fight" Pronunciation [dawg-fahyt] noun, verb.
–noun
2. "a fight between warring fighter planes."
Another definition -
"An aerial battle between fighter planes."
Ergo, BnZ tactics such as cherrypicking, which if you weren't duly informed, do utilize a 'fighter plane', are well within the definition of dogfighting.
Therefore, your comment was both ignorant and stupid, which considering the source, is in tune with the nature order of things. :aok
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Originally posted by IronDog
I don't know why most people think cherry picking is a bad thing.Cherry picking is nothing more than good flying,and it should be applauded.Believe it or not most the good pilots in WWII got most of their kills via cherry picking.Does never seen what hit them ring any bells?!It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.rinse and repeat.Furballers create the pickers by doing just that.No furballs,no pickers.Do I enjoy getting picked...heck no,but I can appreciate the effort put in by the picker.I notice most the good furball pilots,are the most vocal when they get picked.Does (*&$#@! picker sound familiar? :lol.many of the aircraft in AH are made for picking,and not for furballing.Oh some of the better sticks can turn fight in a picker,but they aren't made for it.Next time you get picked,give that skilled picker a big !
IronDog
Cherry Picking is more of a FFA term
in Teams (like the MA's) it should be refered to as B2B protection (buddy to buddy)
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Originally posted by shamroc
It's a sad fact that the AvA and DA are almost always empty - it frustrates
me to no end. I also deeply respect anyone who hangs out regularly in the
AvA/DA - they make the game fun for me. :)
Shamroc
Not to digress too much, but for me and many others, HiTech killed the DA as a fun place to be for more than an hour a week if that. Justifying their action by saying the DA was not being used (which they allowed occur for way more than a year) as it was intended, when the reality was they simply didn't want to be bothered assisting with some minor player concerns and simply wiped the problem off their plate by going to the quick and dirty technical solution of turning killshooter back on permanently.
Was a fun place to learn ACM. Now it's just a place to try an boost one's ego by humiliating someone else, by and large.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
He only said we should listen to you- he's not said that you're right, or that we should follow your advice. :)
Hub...
The other BK's musta been lying about you. You are definitely not dumber than durt. :)
I am curious, back when virtual dirt was new, cherry picking meant swooping in and popping an engaged enemy that was paying attention to his 6. I have noticed these days that some folk tend to call any death a cherry pick.
What is a cherry pick now?
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
What is a cherry pick now?
1 of 3 excuses used by some knucklehead on ch 200, ranting as to why he died.
You can guess the other 2. :D
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Originally posted by Sloehand
Not to validate or condone cherry picking either way, but simply to point out that some people who mouth-off just to annoy others or tell someone else what is the right and wrong way to play this game, don't have a clue about what they are spouting most of the time.
"dog·fight" Pronunciation [dawg-fahyt] noun, verb.
–noun
2. "a fight between warring fighter planes."
Another definition -
"An aerial battle between fighter planes."
Ergo, BnZ tactics such as cherrypicking, which if you weren't duly informed, do utilize a 'fighter plane', are well within the definition of dogfighting.
Therefore, your comment was both ignorant and stupid, which considering the source, is in tune with the nature order of things. :aok
Let me give you a quote by a friend on this topic which sums it up nicely:
quote:
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Dogfighting is just like sex, the longer, the better.
Cherry picking is like pleasuring yourself.
Your pick...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, get off my ankle and go pleasure yourself!:aok
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
What is a cherry pick now? [/B]
For me it's a plane flying toward some place and not engaged with another plane . As in someone climbing out and I get on his low six and blow him up , etc etc .
Not someone doing a one on one and me coming in hot and swooping in and shooting him . That's IMO ( unless they call for help ) just kill stealing .
And yes I did say "listen to him" , I would also place Widewing on this list as well . Listen closely to both IMO .
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Originally posted by airspro
For me it's a plane flying toward some place and not engaged with another plane . As in someone climbing out and I get on his low six and blow him up , etc etc .
Not someone doing a one on one and me coming in hot and swooping in and shooting him . That's IMO ( unless they call for help ) just kill stealing .
And yes I did say "listen to him" , I would also place Widewing on this list as well . Listen closely to both IMO .
Your definition of cherry picking is incorrect.
So is your definition of kill stealing.
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Originally posted by airspro
For me it's a plane flying toward some place and not engaged with another plane . As in someone climbing out and I get on his low six and blow him up , etc etc .
Not someone doing a one on one and me coming in hot and swooping in and shooting him . That's IMO ( unless they call for help ) just kill stealing .
And yes I did say "listen to him" , I would also place Widewing on this list as well . Listen closely to both IMO .
Well, number 1 could be a cherry. It's more likely to be an afk kill.
Number 2 IS[/u] a cherry pick. If you stop and think about it, since the term comes from cherry = vigin pilot, any kill versus a noob could be considered a cherry pick. Bottomline, if you get cherried...you had to fly like a noob. :D
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Originally posted by Sloehand
Now it's just a place to try an boost one's ego by humiliating someone else, by and large.
This scenario has a very familiar ring to it. WHo do I know that does this....ALOT....hmmmm....
ahh well never mind.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Sloehand
Not to digress too much, but for me and many others, HiTech killed the DA as a fun place to be for more than an hour a week if that. Justifying their action by saying the DA was not being used (which they allowed occur for way more than a year) as it was intended, when the reality was they simply didn't want to be bothered assisting with some minor player concerns and simply wiped the problem off their plate by going to the quick and dirty technical solution of turning killshooter back on permanently.
Was a fun place to learn ACM. Now it's just a place to try an boost one's ego by humiliating someone else, by and large.
Yep. Also shows you how match they really care about their customers. We asked for help, and got punished for it.
Here is another $15
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Originally posted by Sloehand
Not to validate or condone cherry picking either way, but simply to point out that some people who mouth-off just to annoy others or tell someone else what is the right and wrong way to play this game, don't have a clue about what they are spouting most of the time.
"dog·fight" Pronunciation [dawg-fahyt] noun, verb.
–noun
2. "a fight between warring fighter planes."
Another definition -
"An aerial battle between fighter planes."
Ergo, BnZ tactics such as cherrypicking, which if you weren't duly informed, do utilize a 'fighter plane', are well within the definition of dogfighting.
Therefore, your comment was both ignorant and stupid, which considering the source, is in tune with the nature order of things. :aok
Pwn
Dave
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Originally posted by Sloehand
Was a fun place to learn ACM. Now it's just a place to try an boost one's ego by humiliating someone else, by and large.
HT didn't kill the DA. Put the blame where it belongs...the dweebs that were in there not following the arena rules.
Btw, I guess you don't realize it..but, the purpose of the DA has always been to boost egos and humiliate opponents (everyone knows ego monkeys need a special place) :D. If you check, you will find a post from HT stating that training is not the purpose of the DA. There is another entire arena dedicated to training. :)
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
HT didn't kill the DA. Put the blame where it belongs...the dweebs that were in there not following the arena rules.
Btw, I guess you don't realize it..but, the purpose of the DA has always been to boost egos and humiliate opponents (everyone knows ego monkeys need a special place) :D. If you check, you will find a post from HT stating that training is not the purpose of the DA. There is another entire arena dedicated to training. :)
He didnt say "training". He said a good place to learn ACM. If that shouldnt be done in the Dueling Arena, then by that Logic it shouldnt be done in the Main Arena either.
Your logic is flawed.
Dave
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Originally posted by airspro
For me it's a plane flying toward some place and not engaged with another plane . As in someone climbing out and I get on his low six and blow him up , etc etc .
Not someone doing a one on one and me coming in hot and swooping in and shooting him . That's IMO ( unless they call for help ) just kill stealing .
And yes I did say "listen to him" , I would also place Widewing on this list as well . Listen closely to both IMO .
Originally posted by SteveBailey
Your definition of cherry picking is incorrect.
So is your definition of kill stealing.
For what it's worth, here are quotes from the trainers site which have been up for quite some time...
From the radio terms glossary
"cherry (pick) - Attacking an enemy already engaged with another plane"
From the Aces High Etiquette page
"KILL STEALING: In Aces High, a damaged plane can spin helplessly to the ground after having its wing shot off in a good fight. The victor of this fight, assuming he is any good, is probably already looking for the next fight, and maybe even anticipating seeing who he killed. A kill stealer is someone who chases the tumbling, burning wreckage that was once a plane down to the ground, pumping it full of bullets, and gets a kill because he gets more hits into it before it hits the ground. This is the mark of a true dweeb who cares only for his score, not whether he is any good or not. While accidents do happen, don't shoot into planes that are already going down."
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Originally posted by Murdr
For what it's worth, here are quotes from the trainers site which have been up for quite some time...
Yes! :aok
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Originally posted by Nomak
He didnt say "training". He said a good place to learn ACM. If that shouldnt be done in the Dueling Arena, then by that Logic it shouldnt be done in the Main Arena either.
Your logic is flawed.
Dave
Actually, it isn't. Learning...training...and the big difference is?
...and no, the MA isn't made for 'learning' either. Doesn't mean folk can't learn there. Does mean that is not the purpose of the arena. Bottomline, the DA was created for duels. The TA was created for 'learning'. The MA was created for..... mayhem!!! :)
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Originally posted by Shamus
Picking a con on a countryman's six is fine, on his twelve is bad form.
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I was just involved in a nice one v one with a nit tiffie v me in a 190-A5 above the fight I see ROCKIES approach in a spit. I ask him to please stay out a request he ignores he jumps in the tiffie runs he breaks off the tiffie resumes the fight with me ROCKIES jumps in again a shoots down the opponent.
what would you consider this?
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Originally posted by storch
I was just involved in a nice one v one with a nit tiffie v me in a 190-A5 above the fight I see ROCKIES approach in a spit. I ask him to please stay out a request he ignores he jumps in the tiffie runs he breaks off the tiffie resumes the fight with me ROCKIES jumps in again a shoots down the opponent.
what would you consider this?
facking rude.
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Originally posted by storch
what would you consider this?
Rook teamwork
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Originally posted by storch
I was just involved in a nice one v one with a nit tiffie v me in a 190-A5 above the fight I see ROCKIES approach in a spit. I ask him to please stay out a request he ignores he jumps in the tiffie runs he breaks off the tiffie resumes the fight with me ROCKIES jumps in again a shoots down the opponent.
what would you consider this?
Someone who doesn't have the country channel (or local channel, or whatever channel you used to warn him) tuned in? Someone who doesn't even know to look at the text buffer?
-Llama
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he knew it's all he does he is probably a point potato but that's a whole other thread.
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Originally posted by Murdr
For what it's worth, here are quotes from the trainers site which have been up for quite some time...
Well , guess I can still learn .
THANKS is all I can say , and I stand corrected .
I would have to say I don't "cherry pick" much then , or kill steal .
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Would you call what I like to do then ? Yes some might be afk , or just not watching their low six etc . I like to "bounce" them .
Also a the back of a daisy chain of red after a fellow countryman holds much interest for me also :)
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Originally posted by IronDog
I don't know why most people think cherry picking is a bad thing.Cherry picking is nothing more than good flying,and it should be applauded.Believe it or not most the good pilots in WWII got most of their kills via cherry picking.Does never seen what hit them ring any bells?!It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.rinse and repeat.Furballers create the pickers by doing just that.No furballs,no pickers.Do I enjoy getting picked...heck no,but I can appreciate the effort put in by the picker.I notice most the good furball pilots,are the most vocal when they get picked.Does (*&$#@! picker sound familiar? :lol.many of the aircraft in AH are made for picking,and not for furballing.Oh some of the better sticks can turn fight in a picker,but they aren't made for it.Next time you get picked,give that skilled picker a big !
IronDog
Whoever "pick" me without me seeing him/her coming, earns a from me. I respect whoever do it, and feel stupid for not having watched out. It is humiliating every time it happens, if it happens to you... you should (at least try to) learn from it.
Acknowledging, or becoming aware of, a problem, is the first step.
Yes, all of you (http://hem.bredband.net/turnik/icons/icon_tits.gif) who dispise pickers, eat it.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Actually, it isn't. Learning...training...and the big difference is?
...and no, the MA isn't made for 'learning' either. Doesn't mean folk can't learn there. Does mean that is not the purpose of the arena. Bottomline, the DA was created for duels. The TA was created for 'learning'. The MA was created for..... mayhem!!! :)
Alrighty..... help me understand here. By your logic its ok to learn ACM while flying the MA but not ok to learn ACM while flying the DA?? Because they should be learning ACM in the TA?
Hmmmm
Dave
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Originally posted by Murdr
From the radio terms glossary
"cherry (pick) - Attacking an enemy already engaged with another plane"
That's just nonsense.
Suppose me and a squaddie (or any countryman, really) engage a co-alt pair of bogies. It turns into two 1v1 duels within a 4-ship furball. I kill my guy and then turn my attention to the bogey on my partner's 6. I saddle him up and kill him unawares.
That is NOT cherry picking as the term is thrown around. Time for a new entry in the radio terms glossary, I think.
Now here's what I call cherry picking:
There's a a medium or low alt furball between two enemy bases. (For discussion's sake, let's say it is at around 4k, with a few ships just a little higher and lots of planes below, right to the deck.) For the most part, most pilots from both sides are basically just taking off and flying directly to the furball as fast as possible, and are entering the furball co-alt (4k), and they start turning and burning. Most pilots jump right in and start dogfighting until they're killed, though some are able to disengage and get away to land some kills.
I guess this is SkyRock. Sometimes it is me too. It *always* used to be me when I was a younger man.
Instead of this, some pilots don't just fly right into the furball. Instead they climb up higher (say, double the furball's average alt, such as 8k, but sometimes much higher), and orbit above and around the furball. They look for targets of opportunity within the furball, dive down, try for a killshot, and then zoom back up. Their targets are usually totally unaware of the Picker's location and speed, and are relatively easy pickings. The Picker is moving so fast that they're basically untouchable by anyone in the furball.
This is a Cherry Picker.
The score-hound is a Picker that does this and only this, and departs the scene when they no longer have the E to climb high enough to make another pass -- instead of Zooming back up they extend away to home base. Not my cup of tea personally, but this is the Main Arena and there's a war to be won (sorry, Ack Ack - my interpretation of the MA Rulebook), so people do it. It is easy to see why this behavoir irriates the pure fullballer, since it doesn't require any of the furballers' skills to make a kill, and leaves the Picker essentially untouchable.
To me, a smart pilot does a little of both. They arrive at the furball high rather than co-alt, make a couple of Cherry Picking passes to thin out the herd a little bit (or clear a Squaddie's 6), and then starts turning and burning with everyone else to take out some more, and hopefully manages to break away when bingo fuel or Winchester.
And this is sometimes me too. I presume it is never SkyRock. I don't think anyone has anything for apologize for if they fly this way.
Hmm, a tad too wordy for a definition. How about:
Cherry Picker: A pilot who flies above and around a furball instead of within it, eventually using high-speed passes to shoot potentially unaware turnfighting enemy targets, and then departs before any threat of counterattack or danger.
-Llama
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Originally posted by llama
That's just nonsense.
Suppose me and a squaddie (or any countryman, really) engage a co-alt pair of bogies. It turns into two 1v1 duels within a 4-ship furball. I kill my guy and then turn my attention to the bogey on my partner's 6. I saddle him up and kill him unawares.
That is NOT cherry picking as the term is thrown around. -Llama
Yes it is. This is why I stated in other threads that cherry picking happens all the time, it's part of every furball. People went on to point out that they were referring to people who cherry pick exclusively, never engaging anyone until their target is busy.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Yes it is. This is why I stated in other threads that cherry picking happens all the time, it's part of every furball. People went on to point out that they were referring to people who cherry pick exclusively, never engaging anyone until their target is busy.
yes the handful of timid souls who practice this method to the exclusion of all others
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Originally posted by Nomak
Alrighty..... help me understand here. By your logic its ok to learn ACM while flying the MA but not ok to learn ACM while flying the DA?? Because they should be learning ACM in the TA?
Hmmmm
Dave
Ok...let's see if this helps....
MA - Ok to learn, but, not intended for it. Intent...melee combat.
DA - Ok to learn, but, not intended for it. Intent...Duels (hence the name).
TA - Ok to learn..IS intended for it. Intent...to learn to play the game.
None of the arenas exclude learning how to play the game. But, only one is specifically designed and designated for that purpose. You can learn all the ACM you want in the MA/DA. But, you have to do it within the design of the arenas.
HT stated all of this (in different words and with poor spelling :)) when he made the changes to the DA. As said earlier, had certain people not been in there abusing the arena, the changes never would have been made.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Ok...let's see if this helps....
MA - Ok to learn, but, not intended for it. Intent...melee combat.
DA - Ok to learn, but, not intended for it. Intent...Duels (hence the name).
TA - Ok to learn..IS intended for it. Intent...to learn to play the game.
None of the arenas exclude learning how to play the game. But, only one is specifically designed and designated for that purpose. You can learn all the ACM you want in the MA/DA. But, you have to do it within the design of the arenas.
HT stated all of this (in different words and with poor spelling :)) when he made the changes to the DA. As said earlier, had certain people not been in there abusing the arena, the changes never would have been made.
Yep, drove the users out of it and left the abusers :aok
Intend means nothing. The intend of creating this game was to make money. People that pay money were enjoying the DA. 6 years ago when the intend of making money had not been met 100% HT would have had a different attitude towards the paying customers asking for help. We know he likes to eat. Maybe he is getting full?
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Originally posted by FireDrgn
All u contrarians reply with carefully worded posts. U are laughable at best. You all cherry pick u all know u cherry pick.
U all are talking krap about yourselves.
That was a sad show today..after your attempt to cherry pick (not saying I don't) you had a chance to fight a 262 vs 262, you chose to run....had the whole sector all to ourselves. Chased ya 3 sectors to your own ack.:rofl
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IF 'cherry picking weren't a goal, what else would we use 109 K4 for?
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Originally posted by bj229r
IF 'cherry picking weren't a goal, what else would we use 109 K4 for?
turn fighting
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AHHHHH...THATS what all them 20k K4's are doin, that question has vexed me for YEARS!
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Dogfighting is just like sex, the longer, the better.
Cherry picking is like pleasuring yourself.
Your pick...
can i quote that?
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Originally posted by bj229r
AHHHHH...THATS what all them 20k K4's are doin, that question has vexed me for YEARS!
I made you an offer months ago which still stands :aok
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It could be that the K4s are practicing for DGS, as so many LEO P47s, P51s, and P38s have been. There are many better pickers than the K4.
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Originally posted by storch
I made you an offer months ago which still stands :aok
Yup ya did Storch, and I'd like to try out my new pedals on another jug...don't get actual fights against many of them:aok
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In my personal opinion on this matter is cherry pick n is for score ho'rs that purpously milk run!:rofl
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Originally posted by bj229r
Yup ya did Storch, and I'd like to try out my new pedals on another jug...don't get actual fights against many of them:aok
we can do that but I'm not very good in P47 from simple lack of familiarity. never the less I'm game to try.
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Originally posted by Cmustard
In my personal opinion on this matter is cherry pick n is for score ho'rs that purpously milk run!:rofl
Huh???:huh
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It is my personal opinion that pilots who get picked don't deserve better. :rofl
I consider them noobs, some of which refuse to learn instead they whine. :lol
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Originally posted by storch
we can do that but I'm not very good in P47 from simple lack of familiarity. never the less I'm game to try.
Well...I don't get kilt by jugs much...DO get kilt by 109's, Yaks and Lgheys tho:---need to practice against them
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Hvae we defined the difference between a Pick and a Cherry Pick yet?
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Originally posted by Tiger
Hvae we defined the difference between a Pick and a Cherry Pick yet?
Where is SHawk when you need him?
I would leave this to the experts :D
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Originally posted by Tiger
Hvae we defined the difference between a Pick and a Cherry Pick yet?
lol. riiiiight.
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Originally posted by IronDog
I don't know why most people think cherry picking is a bad thing.Cherry picking is nothing more than good flying,and it should be applauded.Believe it or not most the good pilots in WWII got most of their kills via cherry picking.Does never seen what hit them ring any bells?!It takes a lot of skill lining up a victim,running in,and then applying the kill shot,and getting out.rinse and repeat.Furballers create the pickers by doing just that.No furballs,no pickers.Do I enjoy getting picked...heck no,but I can appreciate the effort put in by the picker.I notice most the good furball pilots,are the most vocal when they get picked.Does (*&$#@! picker sound familiar? :lol.many of the aircraft in AH are made for picking,and not for furballing.Oh some of the better sticks can turn fight in a picker,but they aren't made for it.Next time you get picked,give that skilled picker a big !
IronDog
I would say cherry pickn is ok as long as your not using it to go milk run.For instance (Axer) ups a pony or la'7 (puts his cheats in for extra fuel:lol )And goes out milk running (by cherry picking) in my opinion these kinda people are dorks that need to stop worrying about rank and go get a girl :D
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Originally posted by Cmustard
(puts his cheats in ...
Custard...as a new arrival to the boards, a word of advice...the "C" word doesn't sit well with HTC.
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Cherry picking is playing an air combat sim the way a gambler plays cards. You don't take risks you don't have to. (Coincidentally, this is a smidgen closer to "real".)
For some of us, what we find fun is in the adrenalin rush, and how many we can take down with us, especially those times when we get away with it when the odds are stacked against us.
For others of us, what we find fun is sense of satisfaction from rolling to a stop at the end of a sortie, best yet with an undamaged plane and a few scalps under our belt.
Neither is wrong.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
Cherry picking is playing an air combat sim the way a gambler plays cards. You don't take risks you don't have to. (Coincidentally, this is a smidgen closer to "real".)
For some of us, what we find fun is in the adrenalin rush, and how many we can take down with us, especially those times when we get away with it when the odds are stacked against us.
For others of us, what we find fun is sense of satisfaction from rolling to a stop at the end of a sortie, best yet with an undamaged plane and a few scalps under our belt.
Neither is wrong.
Could not have been said better. Both play styles have my respect, as long as it's mutual. If it's not, I call them whiners. :D
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I look at cherry picking like $1 bills.
I have a job, and make fair money. I'm even pretty good at what I do.
However, on my way to work I often stop at a local gas station. If I happen to see a $1 bill lying on the floor, I reach down and pick it up.
Done deal.
No real "glory" in the act, but I don't mind it, or feel guilty about using it to buy a soda.
I don't fly around actively looking to "pick" someone, but if I trip across an opportunity, I'll "pick" it up.
It'd be kind of foolish not to, don't you think?
Originally posted by Tiger
Hvae we defined the difference between a Pick and a Cherry Pick yet?
This is obvious. A "cherry" pick is a pick that hasn't been picked yet!
MtnMan