Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: loonetik on October 04, 2007, 01:27:41 PM
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I want to learn the P-38. Can any P-38 pilots give me any pointers on Air to Air? Which model, Loadouts, Convergence, Manuevers, Tips, Tricks, Anything.
Lunatik
Pigs On The Wing
http://www.pigsonthewing.org
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Depends on what you're looking for in a fighter as to which varient to fly. G is the early war version with less power but better turn rate.
I personally like the power of the J/L. I prefer the L of the 3.
Make sure that you have the stall limiter disabled, this improves your flying abilities in all planes, but I felt it hindered the P38 the most.
Some say the P38 is only good at BnZ but they do not know how to fly it to its full potential.
First your SA will go into overhaul, P38 screams "easy kill" because it is big and most associate it with porking. I like this because most people don't expect a P38 to turn with their spits and N1Ks.
Convergence isn't an issue with the P38 because all of the guns are in the nose and gives it a big punch.
Vertical manouvers are your friend (no I don't mean BnZ). two counterrotating allison engines cancels out torque so the P38 has wonderful low speed handling.
The flaps were designed to be used in dogfights, use them.
Most important rule
Have fun
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If you're going to be a bomber pilot, be sure and order your 50 mission
crush hat now :D
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First your SA will go into overhaul, P38 screams "easy kill" because it is big and most associate it with porking. I like this because most people don't expect a P38 to turn with their spits and N1Ks.
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Agree 100%. I fly the 38 almost exclusively, I'm not a great pilot, but i like to think i give most of the pilots i run up against a bit of a surprise when they realize i'm not an easy kill (usually).
Convergence isn't an issue with the P38 because all of the guns are in the nose and gives it a big punch.
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I have to disagree here. It's true that the guns don't need horizontal convergence, but you do want to take drop into account. I have experimented with different ranges and found that setting it out too far would cause the rounds to "lob" and sometimes go over my target, too close and they would go under. Set them to where you shoot most, as with any plane, and you will have greater success hitting your target. I have taken a note from Murdr and set my cannon out about 200 yards farther then my 50's, seems to really make the plane reach out and touch someone. 450/650 is what i am using, or somewhere in that area.
Vertical maneuvers are your friend (no I don't mean BnZ). two counterrotating allison engines cancels out torque so the P38 has wonderful low speed handling.
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This is true, but you still need to know the E-state of your opponent. There are still a number of planes that will climb with you, if not climb over you, when you start with equal E, no to mention if they have more then you. As always know your enemy! You will quickly learn which planes you need to give extra respect to.
The flaps were designed to be used in dogfights, use them.
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Like salt the 38's flaps can be a HUGE help in a fight when used as little as necessary, but used too generously it will blow all of your E and you are a floundering whale of a target.
Most important rule; Have fun
You're a 38 pilot, this rule goes without saying. There are a lot of great 38 sticks in this game, get to know them *cough* s.a.p.p. *cough*.
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Another tip:
The torque-free twin engine layout also enables you to get rid of combat trim easier than in most planes because you only have to adjust elevator trim.
I found that disabling CT gives me a more predictable plane in low speed turns or loops/hammerheads.
As a reference point, try to line up the elev trim with the bottom line of the "L" on the trim indicator. It takes a while to learn and getting comfortable with readjusting trim constantly but it's great fun and you get no interference from CT in high-aoa/low speed maneuvers.
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Originally posted by loonetik
I want to learn the P-38. Can any P-38 pilots give me any pointers on Air to Air? Which model, Loadouts, Convergence, Manuevers, Tips, Tricks, Anything.
Lunatik
Pigs On The Wing
http://www.pigsonthewing.org
There are some very good dedicated 38 pilots here. Were I to name some, I'd no doubt be doing someone else an injustice by not naming them
You're in luck wanting to learn the 38. If you go looking for the help, you are going to find it.
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The G For The Win!
Guppy can teach you how to torch them.:D
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The P-38 still has the P-factor to contend with. Stall it in a dogfight, and you will see what I mean. It will still depart flight and spin. This is due to a number of factors, asymetric airflow, etc.
The P-38 does better at low to medium altitudes because of its low critical mach. Above 450mph it will buffet and lock up. The best way to fight in it would be to cruise at 10k, search for enemy aircraft below you. Dive, fire, and climb back to altitude.
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^^^^^^ Spoken like a true non P-38 pilot.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
The P-38 still has the P-factor to contend with. Stall it in a dogfight, and you will see what I mean. It will still depart flight and spin. This is due to a number of factors, asymetric airflow, etc.
The P-38 does better at low to medium altitudes because of its low critical mach. Above 450mph it will buffet and lock up. The best way to fight in it would be to cruise at 10k, search for enemy aircraft below you. Dive, fire, and climb back to altitude.
There isn't a more stable fighter at low speeds than the P-38s. One of the best pure E fighters in the plane set. Boom and Zoom is not its best use.
Avoiding compression issues isn't difficult, just keep the airframe loaded and scrub off excess speed with rudder while retarding the throttle.
If you can manage to get the P-38 into a spin, it isn't the aircraft, but a ham-fisted pilot. Odds are you have stall-spin problems regardless of what you fly.
I fly the P-38s quite a bit. I feel that I know what its capable of and where its limitations are. Pilot skill is the single greatest factor in any aircraft. A top tier pilot who knows the P-38 will be damn near unbeatable 1v1 against virtually any fighter flown by anyone less than the very best pilots.
I flew a duel with a very good pilot flying a 109G-14. Despite his expectations and fighting in the vertical, the P-38J was able to dominate his 109. This was largely due to the P-38's unequaled low speed control with its nose above the horizon and its tremendous zoom capability
To be successful with the P-38s, you must learn to avoid turn fights with better turning aircraft. You must learn to use your energy to gain and maintain the tactical advantage. You must learn how to use the rudder to maximize capability. You must learn to avoid its weaknesses and fight to its strengths. You must learn to be smooth on the controls. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
Among the many fighters available, I rate the P-38J/L in the group of the top 10 most dangerous non-perked fighters.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
You must learn to avoid its weaknesses and fight to its strengths. You must learn to be smooth on the controls. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
what are its weaknesses?
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Which model do you guys fly for Air vs Air and why?
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
The P-38 still has the P-factor to contend with. Stall it in a dogfight, and you will see what I mean.
Hmmm....I've flown the P-38 exclusively in AH for 7 years and I have never experienced what you claim.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by loonetik
Which model do you guys fly for Air vs Air and why?
Well it depends what you want to do in the air...
G = turnfighter
L = BnZ more or less...
J = well, I don't fly the J :D
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Originally posted by loonetik
what are its weaknesses?
Less than good visibility to the sides, blind spots to the rear. Compressibility due to a low critical mach. Relatively large turning circle. Average acceleration. Large target.
My regards,
Widewing
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I dont fly the 38 much but from my limited experience the stall is a result of the planes tremendous stability and docilness at high AoA. You keep pushing it and pushing it and when it departs its DEPARTS...normally when your way beyond what initially expected. It also is a flap dependent...if your flying it with flaps off by a notch it suprises you....normally I lose it when I'm worried about E state and cheat and suck a notch back in...
Of course the A-20 is much more stable the 38 so I get hamfisted if I go from the A-20 to the 38 since the A-20 needs to be "yanked around" a bit more....
If you've got the patience to learn it 38 is probably the best all around fighter (range/payload/ammo/furball/E fight/B&Z) combo in the game...
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Originally posted by humble
(range/payload/ammo/furball/E fight/B&Z)
Yes!
The Range is great, ammo is the best part of it. 2000 rounds of MGs...
The G is a awesome furballer.
With its payload it is an awesome porker.
The L is able to BnZ very well to...
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Originally posted by SpikesX
The L is able to BnZ very well to...
The L is just as good if not better than the J. Whatever the J can do, the L can do just as well, if not better.
And all the P-38 models we have in the game can BnZ quite well. It's just not exclusive to the L model.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Widewing
...Large target...
Maybe it's just me, but when I'm on the six of a P-38 they seem to have a really thin height to them. So unless you get them on deflection shots, they never really look that big.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The L is just as good if not better than the J. Whatever the J can do, the L can do just as well, if not better.
And all the P-38 models we have in the game can BnZ quite well. It's just not exclusive to the L model.
ack-ack
During a DGS practice I flew a J and compressed even by diving slightly...
Of course this is at 30K, but still...
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P-38s have a very slim profile, smaller than a lot of single engine fighters.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The L is just as good if not better than the J. Whatever the J can do, the L can do just as well, if not better.
And all the P-38 models we have in the game can BnZ quite well. It's just not exclusive to the L model.
ack-ack
I do believe that the J has a sight advantage in turn radius.
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Spikes... no more input from you in public forums until the SAPP committee approves of it;)
Clerick, I am yet to see that. The only pilot flying a J I did not immediately outfly was akak, me in an L. Neither of us were really getting an advantage on the other. Started around 10k and ended up on the deck. Now in my mind I thought I was about to gain an advantage over akak, but just then a typhoon killed me:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Raptor
Spikes... no more input from you in public forums until the SAPP committee approves of it;)
Clerick, I am yet to see that. The only pilot flying a J I did not immediately outfly was akak, me in an L. Neither of us were really getting an advantage on the other. Started around 10k and ended up on the deck. Now in my mind I thought I was about to gain an advantage over akak, but just then a typhoon killed me:rolleyes:
Sir yes Sir
:lol
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Originally posted by clerick
I do believe that the J has a sight advantage in turn radius.
The difference is negligible and it won't be the deciding factor in the fight.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by SpikesX
During a DGS practice I flew a J and compressed even by diving slightly...
Of course this is at 30K, but still...
It would have done the same in the L or the G. And shame on your for getting your plane into a compressability state. You should know by now how to avoid it.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It would have done the same in the L or the G. And shame on your for getting your plane into a compressability state. You should know by now how to avoid it.
ack-ack
Yes, I was in a duel with a 190 and I started to follow him into a dive...although when I started to shake I did engage dive flaps and pulled out.
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Ahhh...my dear SpikeX....
Next time, just chop throttle and use some rudder to slow you down in the dive and you'll be able to follow any running 190 in a dive.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Ahhh...my dear SpikeX....
Next time, just chop throttle and use some rudder to slow you down in the dive and you'll be able to follow any running 190 in a dive.
ack-ack
Yeah and he would have outran me. :furious
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This is where being in a scenario is different than MA. In this scenario you are escorting bombers. The P38 has a higher top speed at 30k. If the 190 dives, don't follow it, because the 190 is no longer a threat. By the time the 190 climbs back up to 30k, the bombers will be far away.
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Yeah and he would have outran me. :furious
not necessarily...depends on how well you can recognize the signs of compressability so you can ride the onset of it without going into a full compressability state. there have been many Butcher Birds and Mustangs that thought they could use the Split-Arse escape thinking that I wouldn't be able to follow in a Lightning only to see me stuck on their six firing.
As long as you are careful compressability is a non-issue in the Lightning. If you do get into such a state, it was out of your own carelessness.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Yes, I was in a duel with a 190 and I started to follow him into a dive...although when I started to shake I did engage dive flaps and pulled out.
your original post said "a J at 30 K"
Plz show me to command to deploy dive flaps in the 38J we have ingame
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Originally posted by morfiend
your original post said "a J at 30 K"
Plz show me to command to deploy dive flaps in the 38J we have ingame
oops...
I'm sorry. I was flying an L. My wingman was flying a J. He did compress, but was able to pull out.
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Either G, J or L there is little excuse for compressing in a 38, much less being unable to pull out of compression if you are careless enough to enter into it.
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Originally posted by clerick
Either G, J or L there is little excuse for compressing in a 38, much less being unable to pull out of compression if you are careless enough to enter into it.
This is why I don't like to fly at 30K.
I like to go in at 5-7K so I can't compress. :D
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You shouldn't have to worry about compressability below 20,000ft.
ack-ack
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Rudder is a wonderful thing along with throttle. I've yet to use the dive flaps in the L either in the Beta frame or the 1st frame. And trust me I tend to get the nose down :)
I'm getting sorely tempted to take a J next time just to try it out up there
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You shouldn't have to worry about compressability below 20,000ft.
ack-ack
:rolleyes:
I do admit...I am a 38 noob...
I've been taking lessons from Dan on how to torch them...:D
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Out-turn that which out-runs you and out-run that which out-turns you.
Use your fowler flaps like it was her g-spot.
If you can see the horizon parallel to your plane, you're flying it wrong.
Altitude, altitude, altitude.
Compression is your girlfriend's ugly horny sister. If you fall for it you're screwed. If you swirl around it you'll retain control and hit your intended target.
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Just keep flying it and learning how she handles at the high end and and the slow end.
38Js and Ls of the 474th outbound today in the Scenario. We had a ball at 30K :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/474thOutbound.jpg)
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Guppy and his awesome screens.
Good shot!
Edit: Widewing, do you have a film of that 109G-14 encounter or any film that reflects it?
I would very much appreciate it if you could send one.
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I dunno guys.
Every once in a while I come across something in my reading that gets me fired up to try the P-38 again. So I take it up for a few sorties and I feel like a flying coffin everytime. I am having a hard time figuring out what you all find so appealing about it, or for that matter, what made it so deadly in WW2 (real life).
In this particular case, I'm playing 'War in the Pacific' and I have to use my P-38's from Buna to suppress the airpower on Rabaul while I march up the Solomons. The Lightnings are the only ones with the range to CAP Rabaul until I get a new, closer airfield so I've been relying on them alot lately. Anyway, after playing a few turns I got in the mood to take one up in AH2 and see if I could find it as effective as in WITP.
I upped a P-38J in Mid-War last night and took it for a spin. I got a couple kills on a set of Lancs and took out a GV with a 500lb'er, but I felt lucky not to get into a dogfight. I was looking for one, but luckily found the lancs instead. I just don't see how this plane can be effective against any decent mid-war fighter. It compresses like crazy, and it's so darn big, and you have these huge blind spots all over. I feel downright claustrophobic in it!
Then again, that skin with the light blue highlights is pretty darn killer.
Be seeing you all up there!
Toonces
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P38 is a plane that I have ignored in AH the 2 years or so I have played.
I must make an effort to fly it more. I'm not one of those guys who flies one particular plane but i do have my favourites.
The 38 is slightly perplexing the times i have taken it up I either get a bunch of kills and have fun. Or die absurdly.
If you see a p38 flying like its stolen probably me ;)
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Toonces:
Most people have trouble with it precisely because it is NOT a specialty airplane. It also requires a pilot that knows the ENEMY aircraft's weaknesses.
It is not an E fighter. It is not a high speed fighter. It is not a turn fighter.
Its all the above..and its in between.
It is unique in it being capable of 'switching' between being an E fighter and being a Turn fighter depending on who its facing. Other planes are 'stuck' being Turn and Burn (T&B..aka Turn fighters) or Boom and Zoom (B&Z..aka Energy fighters).
Rule of thumb: You can out-turn what out-runs you and you can out-run what out-turns you.
The 38 is not that bigger than P-51 or a 109. It just looks big because of the twin tail booms. Also, the 38's blind spots are your 5 OC and 7 OC due to the tail booms.. to the rear you have better view than any other fighter and underneath each wing your blind spots are no bigger than when you fly any other fighter (you still need to wag your wings to see under them). The 5oc and 7oc blind spots are no big deal imo since most of the time you aren't flying straight and level.
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Originally posted by Tac
Toonces:
Most people have trouble with it precisely because it is NOT a specialty airplane. It also requires a pilot that knows the ENEMY aircraft's weaknesses.
It is not an E fighter. It is not a high speed fighter. It is not a turn fighter.
Its all the above..and its in between.
It is unique in it being capable of 'switching' between being an E fighter and being a Turn fighter depending on who its facing. Other planes are 'stuck' being Turn and Burn (T&B..aka Turn fighters) or Boom and Zoom (B&Z..aka Energy fighters).
Rule of thumb: You can out-turn what out-runs you and you can out-run what out-turns you.
The 38 is not that bigger than P-51 or a 109. It just looks big because of the twin tail booms. Also, the 38's blind spots are your 5 OC and 7 OC due to the tail booms.. to the rear you have better view than any other fighter and underneath each wing your blind spots are no bigger than when you fly any other fighter (you still need to wag your wings to see under them). The 5oc and 7oc blind spots are no big deal imo since most of the time you aren't flying straight and level.
That sums it up nicely :aok
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Guppy and his awesome screens.
Good shot!
Edit: Widewing, do you have a film of that 109G-14 encounter or any film that reflects it?
I would very much appreciate it if you could send one.
I didn't film engagement discussed. I have films where I'm flying the P-38 against other fighters. I do have a film of a duel against a 109K-4 while flying an F6F. If the F6F can hang with the 109K in the vertical, you can expect the P-38 to do likewise under the same circumstances. Here's that film. (http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/film45_04750.ahf)
My regards,
Widewing
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Lately Ive been running up against a lot of P-38 sticks who aren't attacking bombers correctly with it. They end up hanging up in their attacks, most of the time in the 6, or they come in from the side to low, forgetting some bombers turn very well, so I turn into them and get them to hang up trying to straighten and line up their guns, once again hanging up to long.
I ran up against a Mossie yesterday, while I was droning along, and he slid into my 6 thinking I didn't know he was there. Oh I knew he was there ok, I was sitting in the tail gun waiting for him to creep in. I made a mistake and opened up to quickly assuming he was stupid for getting in my 6 in the first place. Boy, was I wrong, he grabbed air and came slashing down in that thing like a pro. I scored some hits, blew some shots, and just plain lost to a guy who outflew me. A heavy gunship, in the hands of a guy who knows how to really slash, is still a situation I have problems with.
Ive ran into a few guys who flew 38s like that but it seems to be happening less and less. I dont know if its more popular or what but its an awfully big target, with a few real structural weaknesses, to be hanging up against bomber guns. Especially since its a fine slasher to begin with.
I shoot for the wings on it if I cant get that forktail it has in back.
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The biggest issue i have with buffs isn't structural deficiencies, but the flippen pilot wounds. More often then i can count a single PW will knock me off of an attack.
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The P-38 is a very nice plane, one that I seem to do quite well in every time I fly it.
I usually get 3-6 kills per sortie, though I rarely land them... I'm usually too aggressive and end up with a trail of bogeys that eventually swallow me whole. That said, if you're not too aggressive and know what you're doing, you can easily dominate. It's one of those aircraft that can do virtually anything, and do it well.
Just make sure that you don't set your convergence too close or too far, and trust me, you'll need to set your convergence even though the guns are all on the nose. It makes a big difference in accuracy and punch.
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Thanks a lot for the film Widewing! Much appreciated.
Also, that was a great spiel, Toonces. Helps me understand a good amount more of the Teufel. However, the 'it's all of the above and it's in between' statement works for the Corsair too so watch out for the new Hog pilots learning how to fly as well heheh.
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Thanks a lot for the film Widewing! Much appreciated.
When you watch that film, do so using the Chase position, fully zoomed in. First watch from the F6F and then from the 109K-4. You will notice that the F6F is flown with nary a jerk or bobble. On the other hand, the 109K is jerked about quite a bit. To limit wasted E, I fly with smooth inputs, even when using rudder to accelerate a roll. My inputs are often slow and deliberate.
Remember this: slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
I waste no E, and more often than not, the F6F is faster than the 109K while maneuvering, despite being about 50 mph slower on the initial merge. Practice rolling your aircraft to the precise angle you want. Even off the initial turn in, the F6F rolls smartly to the exact angle desired. It didn't roll too far, nor not enough. No correction was required. Precision inputs minimize drag. The transition to G load is smooth, which means the onset of induced drag is gradual. Jerking the plane in a series of inputs generates greater induced drag, slowing you down. I tell folks to fly "lazy". Never load the airframe more than you need to get position. Fly a lag pursuit, let the other guy work hard.
The guy in the 109K is not a noob, but one of the game's better pilots flying under a shade. I won't give up his ID as he asked me to keep it secret. Most players will run into him the MA and regret it at once. He was tuning up his 109 flying after a layoff. He did pretty darn good too. Give him a few weeks to get re-acclimated and comfortable with the controls and he'll be hell on wings.
My regards,
Widewing
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If you can see the horizon parallel to your plane, you're flying it wrong.
I'm not particularly well versed in the 38 but it seems to have alot of similarities to the A-20...to which the above quote applies in spades...anytime your flat your "losing"...
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I know what you mean WW.
Back in H2H when Jazz used to make us racing maps, I thought to myself 'getting these tracks done in the shortest amount of time would really improve how I manage energy' (since his best track IMO has zooms, spiral climbs, dives and turns and thin valleys in which one needs to roll in order to avoid crashing).
From then on, I've always tried to make my inputs as smooth as possible, but I've never been able to avoid the stall whine, and sometimes I still have that low speed, high AoA buffet.
Humble,
What did you mean by that post? I have a feeling I still need to tap into its wisdom.
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You can do some acrobatic things in the P-38. At least Ive seen them done. One move that is suicide tho against bombers is coming straight up from a slash, pirouetting straight up until your completely vertical and bleed all E, and then diving down for your E for another slash...
If you do it to close to a bomber, I'd say within 1,000, the P-38 looks like a big fat turkey hanging there for about 2 seconds. And it dont look much better for the next 2 seconds while you start diving for E. I beat a very good stick when I was down to one bomber cause he made that one mistake. Its a very pretty ,impressive aerobatic maneuver but it is suicide if you do it to close to bombers. And the side/level attack aint much better cause if the bomber stick turns into the P-38 you'll get it to, if he gets greedy, hang up into your tailguns. Turn the 38 to hard and your going to hang up. And the best kinda turn for a bomber stick is the gradual turn into, that he doesnt really notice until he gets to close to react, and then turn hard into.
The 38 is a dangerous airplane but it is an E slasher against bombers to be effective.
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I dont really fly the 38 all that much but I've found that in the A-20 you never want to be "flat". Basically you live along the "X" and die on the "T". Basically the quote is that you never fly straight and level in a fight (and I add never fly "flat" to that)....
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
You can do some acrobatic things in the P-38. At least I've seen them done. One move that is suicide tho against bombers is coming straight up from a slash, pirouetting straight up until your completely vertical and bleed all E, and then diving down for your E for another slash...
Depends on the speed and angle of the attacker. This will work in any fighter and not just the P-38.
Attack the bomber formation from above. Fly above the formation (I myself like to fly above it, slightly off the side of the formation at no less than d1.5 above) and target the manned bomber. As you start to pass the formation, pull into a gentle climbing turn and then once your wing (the one into the turn) is pointing at the target, spiral down until your nose is pointing between the cockpit and the nose of the bomber. This will put the attacking fighter at a steep enough of an angle that the top turrets can't get a proper lead and the attacker should see the tracers arc and then fall below him (indicator that you have the proper dive angle).
Since the attacker is has its nose pointed between the cockpit and nose of the bomber, 95% of all rounds will hit in a vital area, usually resulting in a one pass kill. The rounds will the majority of the times hit the cockpit area or the wing root (against B-24s, it's best to try and hit the cockpit area. It seems most hits, unless with hit with solid cannon fire, will cause the wing to catch fire. On all other buffs, hits to this area usually end in the wing coming off.)
After you've fired and scores hits, dive through the bomber formation and when out of gun range, pull into a shallow climb and extend until the + starts to show on the distance icon. Pull into a lazy loop (if done correctly, you should be ahead of the bomber formation when doing this) that carries you d+1.5 above the bombers and slightly ahead of the formation. When you come down from the loop, your position should be above the target bomber at the same angle you were in when you made the first attack.
Rinse, wash repeat for the remaining bombers. If done correctly, the attacker should be unscathed or at the least with a hole or two from stray pings.
And it should go without saying, YMMV.
ack-ack
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Outstanding post ack-ack. Exactly how I dont want a 38 stick to fly against me.:D I think the size and construction of the P-38 gives it a deceiving look. Its actually a very versatile, manueverable, and capable aircraft. As far as WW-ll fighters go its my second favorite, just a little bitty notch below the P-51, and just a little bitty notch above the P-47.
Awww the heck with it. I love em all.
If your ever in the TA would you mind making some runs at me so I can practice up some against those angles? Thank you sir.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
The P-38 still has the P-factor to contend with. Stall it in a dogfight, and you will see what I mean. It will still depart flight and spin. This is due to a number of factors, asymetric airflow, etc.
The P-38 does better at low to medium altitudes because of its low critical mach. Above 450mph it will buffet and lock up. The best way to fight in it would be to cruise at 10k, search for enemy aircraft below you. Dive, fire, and climb back to altitude.
the stall/spin isn't due to pfactor in the 38......if you notice, it normally happens in a turn....in an uncoordinated turn....and you cannot tell us you make all coordinated turns in a fight......but in an uncoordinated turn, one wing is definitly slower than the other......so THAT wing will stall first.......and worse yet..if the plane departs flight, and you correct with aielrons, you drag that wing farther into the stall......thus causing the spin.......if you were i a coordinated turn, then a spin is impossible, although the stall will still occur..but when ya stall like that, correct with rudder......
i think that's pretty accurate.....
john
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most low speed spins are caused by the fairy feature of the autoretracting flaps. Been so since AH1.
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If you want to *really* learn to fly the P-38...
this thread is a GREAT place to start.
I felt bulky, slow, but still enthused with the P-38. I wasn't sure how to fight with it, etc. I was uninformed. So I hit the forums, and found this thread. I watched all the films, and committed one line to memory:
Out-run which out-turns you, and out-turn which out-runs you.
Oh how true this is.
My first p-38 flight on Mon night (well, first since my return. I played back in 02, and as you all know, AH is *not* like riding a bike), I was scored 0 kills. 0.
After reading this thread, I went up for 2 sorties last night. I scored 6 kills. 3 on each sortie. The first one however, I was too excited I was actually being productive (lol) I forgot about fuel and sputtered down. I ended up landing in a field and ditching, but not before spotting a flak shooting at me. And on my second sortie, one of my 3 kills was the flak lol. He was busy trying to vulch guys taking off. A few MG rounds tok care of that ;)
IMHO, thats a HUGE improvement.
The only advice I can give to compliment the line above is:
Pick Your Fights!
As long as you are smart about your engagements, there is no reason not to score some kills. As long as *you* dictate your fights, then *you* have the advantage.
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I have to agree with many of these previous sentiments. I feel the P38 is the best "Generalist" plane in the game.
It's main strength is tha it doesn't have any overbearing weaknesses. It's main weakness though is that it doesn't have any overbearing strengths.
It's neither the best , or worst at anything. Like they keep chanting with this plane. Out run what you can't out turn, out turn what you can't out run. If a plane can out turn you chances are you can out loop it, if a plane can out loop you chances are you can out turn or out run it.
The plane has the range for long distance escort missions. it carries a large payload for jabo. It has enough speed and climb ability for fighter sweeps. There's realyl nothing you can't do in a 38.
There may be specific jobs that a particular plane can do better. For instance the P51 is faster and can climb higher. It's a better plane for high alt eascort missions. Since it has less trouble keeping up with the bombers even after breaking off to engage fighters.
It's paper thing though and though it can handle a decent payload it can't shrug off enough hits to be a great Jabo fighter. Plus it is far less maneuverable than the 38 so if you do catch it down in the weeds it has less options.
The P47 is a good high alt high speed performer. But it's range is unbrearably low. By the time you climb to altitude it's time to turn around for home because you're bingo fuel.
It has a great guns package and can carry a larger load out than the P38. It is less maneuverable though, especially before it's dropped. Until it's dropped ord it's a bus with wings. To be honest even after I've dropped ord I still feel like I'm flying a Bus when I'm in the P47. Nothing short of a bomber though has the knock out punch of the P47 when it comes to giving folks on the ground a head ache.
Both are better than the P38 in thier particular domain. But neither can really handle the others job. The 38 can fill both roles and do it well. Can it do it just as well as the others. No not really. but it can comepete. Compete well enough that some folks could argue that it's a better choice.
One job I would take the 38 for though specifically over either of the other two is as an Interceptor. Particularly at Medium to long range. it climbs better at slow speeds. So you can get her off the deck faster in time to meet bombers. It's also easier to attack bombers in the 38. The two engines means you have more chances to bring her home.
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Not to hijack the thread but in real life I always thought the P-47 had very good combat range.
As good as the P-38 actually. If I remember my history right the P-38 sticks in the Pacific figured out a way , in the field, to manage the fuel flow, and RPMs, that extended the 38s range tremendously. This "fix" wasnt exactly somthing they taught in the classrooms and it gave the Lightening pilots the extra range to raise all kinds of trouble for the Japs. Does anyone else recall this?
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Yeah, Charles Lindbergh actually came up with the range extending settings. All the mechanics kept saying "it wont work, you'll ruin the engines". But it worked.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Yeah, Charles Lindbergh actually came up with the range extending settings. All the mechanics kept saying "it wont work, you'll ruin the engines". But it worked.
Ah yes thank you sir. Now I remember.
There is one area where the P-38 really shines and thats in the area of firepower. 4 0.50s and a 20mm Hispano in the nose is pretty fearsome.
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one 20mm Hispano is equivalent to two 50 cal MG's damage-wise so id say both the Jug and the 38 are both pretty deadly.
Of course, the 38 with the nose guns has the better deliverance package :)
Boxcut: Picking your fight applies to any aircraft. If I could modify it a bit, i'd say the 38's version of it is:
'Lure them and Reel 'em in!'
Almost every fight i have I see the other plane grossly underestimate the 38's ability to turn the tables on them and die horribly.
Like the zero the other night... He started with 6k alt advantage, dove on me, I turned flat on the horizon and he turned hard with me.. flat turns. The instant I saw his speed bleed out (aka gave up his biggest advantage thinking i would flat-turn with him to the end) I went into a power dive which no Zeke can follow... but he tried. And he died as his controls locked up near 400mph while I barrel rolled (during dive) behind him.
Like the P51 that dove on me earlier today... came at me at id say 500 mph while i was 300mph, I dodge it with a slight turn, he zoom climbs straight up.... and dies to a burst of 50 cal from d800 as my 38 hangs on its props at 80mph. (nose guns+counter-rot props advantage!)
Or like the silly spit nancyboy that thought it to be a good idea to engage me on the deck, under 200mph, on a mostly vertical fight. Fowlers+counter-rotating props + 38's significant 0-200mph acceleration advantage FTW!
I've said it since AH1 and ill say it here in AH2. There are only 2 kinds pilots: Those that fly the P-38 and those that wish they could.
Naysayers are just in jelaous denial. :aok :p :D
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Originally posted by Tac
one 20mm Hispano is equivalent to two 50 cal MG's damage-wise so id say both the Jug and the 38 are both pretty deadly.
Of course, the 38 with the nose guns has the better deliverance package :)
Boxcut: Picking your fight applies to any aircraft. If I could modify it a bit, i'd say the 38's version of it is:
'Lure them and Reel 'em in!'
Almost every fight i have I see the other plane grossly underestimate the 38's ability to turn the tables on them and die horribly.
Like the zero the other night... He started with 6k alt advantage, dove on me, I turned flat on the horizon and he turned hard with me.. flat turns. The instant I saw his speed bleed out (aka gave up his biggest advantage thinking i would flat-turn with him to the end) I went into a power dive which no Zeke can follow... but he tried. And he died as his controls locked up near 400mph while I barrel rolled (during dive) behind him.
Like the P51 that dove on me earlier today... came at me at id say 500 mph while i was 300mph, I dodge it with a slight turn, he zoom climbs straight up.... and dies to a burst of 50 cal from d800 as my 38 hangs on its props at 80mph. (nose guns+counter-rot props advantage!)
Or like the silly spit nancyboy that thought it to be a good idea to engage me on the deck, under 200mph, on a mostly vertical fight. Fowlers+counter-rotating props + 38's significant 0-200mph acceleration advantage FTW!
I've said it since AH1 and ill say it here in AH2. There are only 2 kinds pilots: Those that fly the P-38 and those that wish they could.
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Naysayers are just in jelaous denial. :aok :p :D
:aok
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Originally posted by Tac
I've said it since AH1 and ill say it here in AH2. There are only 2 kinds pilots: Those that fly the P-38 and those that wish they could.
Naysayers are just in jelaous denial. :aok :p :D
Can't help myself.
What he means is there are SAPP's and there are the rest of ya :)
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Originally posted by Tac
most low speed spins are caused by the fairy feature of the autoretracting flaps. Been so since AH1.
TAC,
i hate to keep repeating, and i'm NOT trying to be a wise arse......BUT..........THE AIRCRAFT WILL NOT SPIN IF IT'S IN COORDINATED FLIGHT. for the spin to happen, one wing has to stall before the other......THIS is what drags you into a spin,,,,,,the only thing that can happen by retracting the flaps, will be a loss of lift.....but then again, if you've hit the speed for them to pull in, you should be able to maintain the loop/circle/turn,.,,,,,,,although i still really suck in the 38, the only times i've EVER spun in it, i was VERY hard on the rudder, to help her roll over faster, and she stallled the inner wing, as it was slower....but it was also an almost instant recovery too.....
now...that all being said, i also hate the auto retracting flaps. but on this also, as i've said about other planes that people complain about...and i think the traainer gods will agree.......what they did in reality matters absolutley ZILCH to us in the game. simply learn to fly the plane ingaame to it's advantages.....and try to force your enemy into his disadvantages...as they are INGAME, because THAT is what'll win you the fight. also, i flew air warrior from when it was free on aohell, to i think aw3 on kesmai.......and this is soooooo much better......anyway, i'm not trying to lecture ya.......just learn them as they are in game, and most of all........HAVE FUN DUDE!!!!!!!! win or lose, that's what it's all about:aok :aok
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john
1ltcap
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1LTCAP, Tac has been here since beta days, I think he knows how to fly the P-38 in here quite well. After all, I taught him all he knows
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
1LTCAP, Tac has been here since beta days, I think he knows how to fly the P-38 in here quite well. After all, I taught him all he knows
ack-ack
hey ack ack<>
long time no see............
i know he's been here for a long time, simply by looking at the number of posts he's got up.........
all i was really trying to get across, was to fly/fight with the planes the way they are, as it's pretty obvious that htc either isn't going to, or can't change this(i think it's the "isn't going to"), and i've no doubt that he could kick my arsee in any ride.......it wasn't a personal attack, simply trying to explain what's needed for a plane to spin, that's all......
now........i wonder who i could get to help me learn to survive fights in the p38..........hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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john
1ltcap