Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dichotomy on October 05, 2007, 11:29:12 AM
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Here's the situation.
My 7 year old is a competition nut. He goes hard and he plays to win. Last year we signed him up for T-ball and had to explain that they didn't keep score and he was just playing to learn but they did keep score in coach pitch so, once he knew what he was doing, he'd know if they won or lost.
This year we specifically asked if the league would be keeping scores and standings and were assured that they would. This morning my wife logs on to check the schedule and notices that all of the games posted thus far had scores of 5 - 5 for all teams.
She contacted the league office and was told that they had decided that at this age level it should be considered developmental and the kids should just learn to love to play the game for the love of it.
This is utter rubbish in my opinion. When I was growing up even if we were playing sand lot baseball, hockey, or whatever, we kept score.
So here's my question for the minds of the O Club at what age is it appropriate to learn about being gracious in victory and honorable in defeat? 7, 8, 9, 10? 40? What are your opinions about the trend to have no 'losers' in childrens sports?
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The trend to no 'losers' in sports is going to ruin this country. Competition is what makes America great. Teaching kids at a young age that their are no losers in life will ruin them. What happens when they fail a test (mom, I thought there were no losers in lofe, how come I got an F and Johnny got an A) Or when he gets passed up for a promotion (Mom, how come Johnny got promoted and I didn't, thought there were no losers in life).
Imagine if businesses ran like that? We'd still have 13" Black and WHite TV's and Microwaves that weighed 600 lbs and took 10 mins to pop a bag of pop corn. Our computers would be topped at 85 MgHz with 16Mb ram and 12.2 Modems.
Back to sports: I feel we can thank Soccer for the rise in this trend in sports. I swear they were the one's that started this. (That and those lovely 0-0 scores after playing for 2 hours)
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Your child's self esteem is much more important than the score of a game. Think of the psychological damage that could occur if he should be on the losing team... years of therapy could be in the offing.
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Are you REALLY asking the O'club about being gracious in victory and defeat? You might as well beat your head on the concrete!:D
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The "no losers" philosophy in childrens sports is crap IMO.
There are winners and losers in many aspects of real life and the sooner kids understand this the better.
Remember this?
"It doesn't matter if you win or lose, what matters is how you play the game"
I believe this to be true.
But it does not mean anything if you are not keeping score because with no winners or losers, how you play the game is meaningless. In other words, you played your best and won...good for you. You played your best and lost...good for you...you did all you could do (no padding of the ego) and if you're smart you will look for things to help you improve so you will do better next time.
"No losers" gives kids a false sense of ability...IMO.
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Originally posted by Dichotomy
She contacted the league office and was told that they had decided that at this age level it should be considered developmental and the kids should just learn to love to play the game for the love of it.
This is utter rubbish in my opinion. When I was growing up even if we were playing sand lot baseball, hockey, or whatever, we kept score.
So here's my question for the minds of the O Club at what age is it appropriate to learn about being gracious in victory and honorable in defeat? 7, 8, 9, 10? 40? What are your opinions about the trend to have no 'losers' in childrens sports?
I agree. That's rubbish. How do they ever learn to be gracious in victory or defeat if nobody ever loses or wins? sheesh.
I say start the winning & losing all the way down at pee-wee leagues (do they still even have pee-wee leagues?).
My kids keep score at EVERYTHING they do. Their whole existance revolves around one-up-man-ship(3 sons, no girls to calm down that tempo). But they're graceful losers (most of the time). Wouldn't have it any other way.
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I know when I started playing t-ball at around 5-6 years old we kept score. I don't remember any sport I ever played were we didn't. It's the only way to gage how your doing. All this stuff about not wanting kids to feel like losers is a bunch of crap. Losing is part of life. It happens to everyone now and then and the sooner kids learn that the better off they'll be. The only thing they're teaching kids by not keeping score is that it's OK to be just like everyone else and that they don't even have to try. WRONG!!!!! The fact is....It pays to be a winner.
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Originally posted by FBBone
Are you REALLY asking the O'club about being gracious in victory and defeat? You might as well beat your head on the concrete!:D
And you think I haven't done that? How do you think I got as warped as I am ;)
Funny aside. When I started playing AH Shiva (baseball kid) asked me how you won. I explained to him that the game never ends but sometimes you shot down people and other times you got shot down. So he looks at me and says completely seriously 'so what's the point?' :lol
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I felt the same way as most of you when I first started coaching Tee Ball last year. Our league didn't even have a 3 out rule....everyone batted in every inning. I got one opposing coach get really upset when we got three outs and I called my team off the field. It almost sparked a confrontation between us as I happened to have a copy of the rules on me and there was no mention of said rule....but as it turned out he was right.
I thought this was silly...but then my oldest went up a league to Rookies and believe me they get all the competitive stuff they need in that league. There was one team whose coaches managed to rig the draft they had and got themselves a team full of ringers. They crushed every other team in the league by a crazy margin all season.
It was silly how competitive the league are above Tee Ball...and I live for competition. I no longer play recreational tennis because it bores me as I used to play competitively, for example.
Let the kids get the basics in Tee Ball without being competitive. The kids who are playing for the first time need to learn to enjoy the game so that they want to deal with the competitiveness later on. Do it too early and many will drop out when they shouldn't.
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3-5 years, it's never to early to explain that life is not equal (fair). There are some people who are better at some things then you, and you should work harder to achieve your best.
Haveing no losers is not going to help our children, My kids ages 4 and 7 understand wining and loseing. in fact I will refuse to play with them if they try to cheat. I explian it's better to lose and have tried your best then win and cheat.
My 7 year old sucks it up and tries harder to bet me. And he's damn good now as some of the games we play.
He's in Tae-Kown-Do and is now sparing with bigger kids, he doesn’t back down and knows to get better he has to not hold back.
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Little League is crooked all around Texas. I would never dream of one of my kids being involved in it here.
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Little kids can handle keeping score, winning and losing just fine.
Unfortunately many parents and coaches can't.
I used to umpire a lot of youth baseball and never had to eject a player younger than 13. But there were several coaches I sent to the parking lot and a whole lot of parents I wish I could have given the heave ho to.
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You're in the wrong league. Little League is only one youth baseball organization. I recommend Pony Baseball. Yes, Pony Division of Pony Baseball is for 13 year olds. Bronco Division is 11-12 year olds. Mustang is 9-10 year olds. Pinto is 7-8 year olds.
They keep score. Nine and ten year olds in Mustang Division play real baseball. Baserunners can steal, pitchers can balk, etc. Only the field is smaller than MLB fields.
Little League is not baseball. Twelve year olds on 60 ft base paths. No stealing. Pitchers not learning how to pitch from the windup and the stretch. Not checking runners. Catchers who aren't learning to throw out base stealers. Middle infielders who don't learn pick off plays. Yuck.
A local Little League team was World Champion. They were the real deal on ESPN and everything. They took their juggernaut on the road as a tournament team. They got their butts kicked. They didn't know how to play baseball.
Check out Pony: http://www.pony.org Maybe there's a league in your area.
HONK!
Gooss
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Pony league looks intriguing
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Originally posted by myelo
Little kids can handle keeping score, winning and losing just fine.
Unfortunately many parents and coaches can't.
I used to umpire a lot of youth baseball and never had to eject a player younger than 13. But there were several coaches I sent to the parking lot and a whole lot of parents I wish I could have given the heave ho to.
Actually this is pretty darn accurate.
:rofl :aok
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I can see why they wouldn't keep score because it would make kids lose interest if they were on a losing team........but, wouldn't they lose interest if they neither won or lost. What do they play for? If your on a winning team it's exciting. If your on a losing team and win, it's real exciting. They should learn early to take the loss and know that they gave 100% and be proud of it......and that they can blame the coach all the way up to the pro level. :D
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When I first started playing soccer when I was 7, we kept score. Of course it didn't mean anything at the end of the season as everyone got a participation trophy. When we went to the bigger fields a year later though score was much more important. It's my opinion that a little competition is healthy, just make sure he doesn't think everything is a competition (maybe get him a Geo Metro when he starts driving?:aok )
It's not your responsibility but I think if it would make your son happy then you could keep score.
Best of luck and make sure he knows that enjoyment is always first.
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oh trust me I plan on it
and if any soccer mom on the other team has a problem with it ... too bad
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Raising a nation of Pu.................
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In T-Ball and the first year after. Be happy if they just manage to hit the ball.
Be ecstatic if they manage to catch the ball.
Be orgasmic if they manage to throw someone out.
Those first couple of years are instructional.
they arent about winning and loosing so much as they are about teaching fundemental skills.
Let the parents keep an informal score. They will anyway
Most of the kids at that age couldnt care less about winning or loosing.
within 10 minutes after the game is over they are busy playing something else.
At that age the ones who care the most about winning and loosing are the parents. and the Tommy Lasorda wannabe coaches.
Trust me. the kids care far less about winning then the other two groups mentioned.
These is plenty of competition at the higher levels. As there will be till they are out of school altogether.
Teach them the skills and to have fun playing.
If you can accomplish that. Youve won the world series.
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I just found the speech I wrote for our Rotary Club last year:
As you can see the Hamilton Rotary Club have invited the entire Tee Ball team we sponsored this year for lunch. We did so at my request but with full support of President Keith, the directors and the membership. Sponsoring a Tee-Ball team may not be as “romantic” or as “worthy” a cause as feeding or clothing children in desperate need in remote corners of the earth, but I believe it is a very worthwhile contribution to our community.
Every Saturday during March April and May you would have seen a veritable bee-hive of activity down at the Southampton Glebe School. Cars going in and out, kids wearing baseball uniforms walking to and from the fields and teams battling it out on those fields. The kids are from all walks of life in Bermuda. There is no segregation of any sort. No racial segregation and no economic segregation. On Southampton Glebe School fields during this time what you will see is a bunch of kids having a great time and a bunch of parents participating in the athletic and social development of their children. It really is a microcosm of what Bermuda’s youth development should be and it is all about INVOLEMENT. From the organizers, to the coaches, to the parents and to the kids..everyone is involved.
The kids that join up to play Tee Ball are, for the most part, just starting out with hitting, catching and throwing. The rules, such as they are, are designed to ensure that the kids have fun without the stress and pressure of having to WIN. There are no winners in these games as far as score is concerned. The kids stay at bat until they are able to hit the ball, there are no strike outs. If a child hits the ball and thrown out at first base, although they are “technically” OUT that child stays at the base. The real winners are each and every child on that field. They are active, they are having fun (hopefully) and they are involved.
I have to be honest that I wasn’t keen on this concept when I first started to coach last year. The competitive streak I have in my body demanded that someone should win and someone should lose. That is the way life is afterall. But gradually I have come to realize that these kids need support, they need help and what they certainly don’t need at the early stages of their athletic development is a bunch of pressure from coaches, parents or even their own team to win. That comes later. In fact it begins immediately upon their “graduation” to rookie league baseball which is the next level up for a child who plays baseball. Tee ball gives the kids a chance to learn. If the coaches do their job right the kids are prepared to perform the very basic physical aspects of the game, hitting, catching and throwing. The rookie coaches then must prepare the kids for the other part of the game. The winning, the losing and hopefully a sense of fair play.
But having said that there are many aspects of Tee Ball that does indeed mirror real life. It’s true!
Ask the kids…what 6 word phrase are you sick of hearing from your coach?
“KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL”
It is an absolutely vital part of the game…and life.
It seems simple enough. All you have to do is look at something. But, whether you are hitting, catching or just trying to stop a hard hit ground ball you will not be able to do so with any degree of consistency if you do not keep your eye on the ball.
The ball in life can be many things. It could be your job or business. Taking your eye “off the ball in this scenario is a recipe for unemployment or bankruptcy.
It could be your family. Taking your eye off this ball can lead to divorce and estrangement from a person’s children’s lives.
It could be virtually anything.
So kids…you have heard me say “Keep your eye on the ball” about a million times. Just as you have started to do very successfully in Tee Ball I would hope that you take what I have just said about that phrase and apply it to your everyday life.
I’d very much like to thank a few people who have played an important part in these and hundreds of other kids involvement in baseball this year. First I’d like to thank the BYSP for all their hard work in organizing the leagues. It is a very difficult job just coaching a TeeBall or baseball team. Organising the leagues is a thankless task that could only be done by a very dedicated and INVOVED group of people. My direct contact with the BYSP has been with Dominic “Buggy” Powell who, along with his wife Tori, have really made baseball a possibility for the kids you see here and all of the kids playing Tee Ball.
Secondly, I’d like to thank Arnold Manders for helping out with the kids at practice and for taking over for me at one game when I was off-island. Arnold impressed me so much at our first practice when by the end of it he was able to call the kids by their first names. I’m terrible with names but due to his experience in coaching cricket and teaching he has managed to master this ability.
Thirdly I’d like to thank the parents of the kids you see here today. Without them rushing madly to get their children to games and practices, we simply would not have a team. It is not easy, as I can appreciate…having three of my own. Thank you for your help and your support.
Lastly, I want to thank the kids.
You guys have provided me with a great deal of enjoyment, satisfaction and pride. You have worked hard and you deserve to be honoured today by our club. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
As I call your name I’d like you to come forward and accept a small token of my, and the Club’s appreciation, for being so INVOLVED this year.
Najiyah Raynor. Nijiyah didn’t make all of our games but was a fantastic contributor when he was able to attend.
Ryan Manders. Ryan is Arnold’s son and the youngest member of the team. He like to watch butterflies a bit too much but at the last game of the season this guy made a play at shortstop that impressed everyone. He takes his time while batting but sure lets it rip once he is committed to swing.
Yusef Bushara. Yusef is a great little hitter but my favourite memory of his performance this season was a play he made in the infield stopping a massive hit by the other team and duly throwing the ball on to first base. It was text-book stuff. Now he just needs to do it every time.
Lilly Barboza. Lilly was one of our best players this year. She is a great all rounder. She hits well, catches well and throws very well…not “like a girl at all”. She also has a great understanding of the rules of baseball. This is defiantly her last year of Tee Ball. She’s off to rookie league.
Cory Booth. Cory was “my little Cal Ripkin. This kid just looks so good out there. At the end of one game the opposing team coach tried to convince Cory to be on his team. I intervened and told him that I was Cory’s agent and that all negotiations for a trade would have to go through me….at my standard rate of 25% of any cash proceeds of course. Cory will be heading to rookie league too.
Jesaiah Talbot. Jessaiah is also a great little player. If anyone was going to win the $20 prize for hitting the ball into the playground that I offered it was going to be Jessaiah. Fortunately for me the season ended before he got one out that far…but it is just a matter of time.
Hannah Beek. Hannah is a great little player. She completely overcame her inability to make contact with the ball in her first game and in very short order. All she needed to do was KEEP HER EYE ON THE BALL. Once she figured that out she was incredibly consistent and a picture on our Club’s website shows her determination as she slid in safely to first base.
Rhyn Bearden. Rhyn is a great hitter catcher and thrower. He is also a rascal! Another great contributor whose greatest love was to play backstop. He has the ability and tenacity to be a great baseball catcher.
Zidane Ming-Wilson. Zidnae, like Jessaiah, was also in the running to get $20 out of my pocket. He isn’t a huge kid but he has a huge swing and lots of power. He was an integral part of the team, always at practice and always at the games.
Dimitri Gugliemucci – The smiler. It was an absolute pleasure having Dimitri on the team this year. I don’t think it is possible to keep a straight face around him because he is always smiling himself. It’s infectious. I saw tons of improvement in Dimitri this year and hope to see him again next year.
Andrew McCarney: Andrew did really well this year and I think has a great deal more confidence in his ability than when he started the season. I watched him at one practice and saw what I would describe as a “light going on” after he hit a ball particularly well. Once he got the hang of the game he was off and running.
Sam Morris: I purposely left my son Sam for the end. The reason for this is because while all the other kids would rush to be first in line to bat, Sam would hang back and if asked would request to be last to bat. I couldn’t figure it out until he said that he gets to run around the bases without stopping. This is a TeeBall rule that the last batter just keeps on going around the bases regardless. He figured out that he would get the attention he wanted this way…a true rascal. Sam is doing well but has another year of Tee ball next year.