Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Murdr on October 11, 2007, 01:12:26 AM
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What the hot topic of the day comes down to is a clash of playing styles. Such clashes are a constant of the game. The most pervasive clash is the strat vs furballer conflict, or 'win the war' vs 'I just want to fight'. That conflict can often be entertaining to track. The furball is often viewed as a drain of resources that the strat believes they are entitled to. When the furball is shut down by the strats for that reason...start poping the popcorn.
However this instance is a disagreement on a more micro-level, though participants from both primary styles still chime in. I find this one even more entertaining as it finds its roots in fighting the 'community collective'. I find this an amusing concept because the specifics are subject to an experienced eye to determine the nuances between what is "Ok" and what is not. So now it's a debate on a subjective topic, where the terms are defined differently by level of experience.
Take the HO for instance. It is a valid tactic. In many instances it is not the smartest tactic to choose. That choice of 'what is the best tactic at this time' is highly dependent on the detailed specifics of the situation. The inexperienced player does not even have the finely tuned SA to make that distinction. The more experienced players that do have the SA, among themselves draw that decision line differently by slim margins which leads to minor disagreements.
So rather than wade through the specifics of the topics, lets look at the idea of fighting the 'community collective' through discussion :)
If we are going to discuss playing styles, we will need a standard to reference to. I am arbitrarly going to use the following:
Originally posted by SNA on dasnakes.com and later furballcentral.com for "Pilot Rankings" by other players
[Class 1] fluff'n Dweebs:
These "pilots" have no idea how to fly and their first kill is probably one of their teamates. Their first contact with other pilots looks something along the lines of ''''''///@%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%SFA@#%%!@!!. They never stop getting vulched, other players from the other classes always like to see these guys log on. If they dont get some training or help soon they usually lose interest or get pissed off and leave the game alltogether.
[Class 2] Plain old Dweebs:
They have figured out how to get a kill and usually do one of two things; 1. They become a buff "artist" and usually join people as a gunner or decide to milkrun ungaurded bases; 2. They become a poser or a follower and hang around with some of the better pilots picking off the wounded. They usually try to start a squad and then ask everyone they see in [the tower] to join whether they know them or not.
[Class 3] Vulch/Alt/Gang Dweebs:
These pilots have learned that the easiest way to get a kill is to always have the advantage. To repay their old "buddies" they like to setup the enemy and call it roping. The only real rope they know is to go up and stall, zoom the enemy, go up and stall, and continue that process thinking they are kicking their ass. The ***** tulips and runners fall into this class. They think that the more points they have the better they are.
[Class 4] Furballers:
When Class 3 has learned that nobody really respects the way they fly, they usually will fall into this class and prove themselves worthy. They will go into a fight no matter what. This class hates BnZers and would rather die in a 5 on 1 then land 8 kills. They have found the true sence of the word "FURBALL". I respect this class just as much as Class 6.
[Class 5] ACE (Alt Monkey):
This class knows how to manage E and how to use ACM to the point where they are just about unkillable. Any time they die they usually come up with an excuse like "the phone rang". They will never admit they ****ed up. Just a little different then Class 3, they are both point mongers except the ACE cares about his ratio too. This is how they can tell if they are any good, if they have more kills then deaths and more then a 1:1 [k/s, k/d] ratio.
[Class 6] Vet:
These pilots you will usually find dieing for anyone. They can pork, kill, BnZ, rope, just as long as it gets the job done. They dont care if they die in a buff or in a spit, they are there to have fun with their squadies and teamates. These pilots recognize skill and are usually the most benificial to their country. They like to go up against the pilots from classes 3 4 and 5.
Using this standard of player styles/progression, something classes 4 5 and 6 have in common is that they have put extensive time into understanding the arts of both energy and angles fighting.
Not everyone aspires to move beyond class 3. Despite the negative light that class 3 is put into in that quote, the idea of 'team play' and extremely cautious flying is perfectly valid gameplay. The same applies to class 2. If one enjoys being a buff artist, and is having fun, more power to them.
I cited this quote earlier:
Originally posted by hitech
There are other's like you who there goal is to fly like a real WWII pilot but there are also a lot of people who simply wish to learn and have fun at ACM they enjoy learning the different plane types and there strengths and weekness. To accomplish the ACM skill set taked a lot of engaments, and like training the more you die the faster you learn.
With the point being that among the varying facets in the design of AH, one facet is with consideration of "people who simply wish to learn and have fun at ACM". Those people are not really satisfied until they reach class 4, and there are 2 more classes beyond that who share a commonality of interest.
That ACM crowd factors heavily into the 'community collective'. By that I mean there are enough like minded people to loosely form an etiquette on certian aspects of gameplay. If someone calls foul based on etiquette, it neither makes them right or wrong. They may in fact have no clue what they are talking about.
If there is a consistant cry of "foul" then obviously you are going against etiquette. Is that significant? Not really. It is your subscription and you can play however you want within HTC's guidelines. Are you entitled to not listen to players critiquing your gameplay? Sure, you can choose not to tune to open channels, and use squelch. Are you entitled to keep them from voicing their opinion? Hell no. Are you entitled to the respect of other players based on your own standards? Hell no.
I have to say that if you are consistantly getting feedback from other players, comming to the boards to change their minds is an excercise in futility. They are obviously members of a sub-community within the game that you do not belong to. The various sub-communities within the game are well entrenched and often a permenent fixture within the game.
I find it especially entertaining when a newer player who knows everything already decides to challenge the existing community make-up. It is all I can do to not reply along the lines of "go pound sand n00b".
Getting clearifications on the details to at least understand what causes the rub may not be a bad idea...But campaining to change players who have been here for years to your way of thinking? Have fun on that hampster wheel. I had mine :) now I am stepping off.
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Think I'm a four. Seems silly not to plow into the fight since I don't really die. might have a little six mixed in but the only bomber you'll find me in is the P38 :)
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6/4
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4/6.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
2/3.
Fixed.
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Remember when we ranked our fellow community members on furball central.com? I still have mine somewhere. heheh found them. Here is what Murdr said about me way back then:
"Steve is a great 51, he knows how to stay out of trouble, but does not run at the sight of an enemy like some pony jockeys.. Seems like a great guy too. Someday maybe I'll get to finish a fight with him.(He doesn't want to get sucked in and I don't want to chase and we just walk away LOL)"
Shawk wrote this
"Steve is a great pony stick, maybe the best I've seen. If you wing with him don't count on many kills because he'll steal them all. :)
Survival dweeb and hates to die, but will take risks to protect his wingie.Funny as hell, also. Thank God he ain't shooting at me anymore LOL"
That was a fun website.
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That was a lot of fun Steve :) I archived my squadies rank pages from fc.c before the site went down. I see you commented on a couple.
AKAK (http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/akak.htm), Crims (http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/crims.htm), Murdr (http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/murdr.htm), ZZ3 (http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/zz3.htm)
I notice there is no alt tag placed on AKAK back then...that title was held by Nylon and VMPR :)
Steve
"Murdr is an accomplished pilot with superior SA skills and great decision making capabilities. Impossible to rope, and refuses to let his E go low enough to give up a shot in an E fight, this guy can turn the tables on anyone. I've fought him 1v1 on several occasions to the point that my stick arm was tired and my hand was sweating..only to leave because I couldn't put him away. Very skilled and a good sport always, I'd love to be able to wing with him someday. "
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I try to be #5 but I often lapse and slip back to #3...
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Well Said Murdr!
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nice post. Most interesting that these rankings move away from, "I've been playing for 4 years, I'm a vet," and focus more on your style. So according to these definitions, you could by a 4 year long player and still be in class 1, which I think is an appropriate definition.
Sub communities are a very interesting aspect. I too appreciate the noobs who come in here, know everything.....It is always fun to watch a noob explain to a "vet" how things work. Of course they have no idea who may or may not not have a better grasp of things, both in game and with community.
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Bravo, Murdr.
You know, to keep the same theme going, players also seem to follow the classical five stages of grief. Aces High can cause a lot of grief for some. ;)
Denial Examples:
- "I can't believe he shot me down!"
- "That (shot, move, maneuver) is impossible!"
- "That can't be right!"
Anger Examples:
- "The (flight, damage) model is hosed!"
- "It's HTCs fault!"
- "He's cheating!"
Bargaining Examples:
- "OK, just let me get one kill..."
- "If I never go below 15K, I can do this..."
- "Oh God! Please don't let that La-7 HO me!"
Depression Examples:
- "I'm so sad, why even bother with this?"
- "Why does this only happen to me?"
- "What's wrong with me?"
Acceptance Examples:
- "That was a great fight! !"
- "That was fun!"
- "So, you learned it by (reading, practicing, asking for help)?"
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I guess I'm a 6, just because I've played for over three years, but I can tell you (and others know) I still suck in a fighter. I just don't have a lot of time to play during the week, and on Friday or Saturday night, I'm too drunk to care.
That's where the "fun" factor comes in. I fly to be with my squad, and my other buds ( guys). If it comes with a kill streak for me, then fine. I like to try to affect the "war" in some fashion, but I don't get real upset if things don't work out.
I'm at the point where I'm always prepared to get my prettythang kicked by some of you good sticks (Lusche and his 262 vs. my B17's comes to mind :D) but in whatever situation presents itself, I try to have fun.
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:aok
The player type list is entertaining, but I hope people stop to think about your discussion at the end, Murdr. Lots of common sense (which is, sadly, all too uncommon) in that paragraph!
And Rolex:
That was very clever. I love it!
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Hitech wrote a paragraph of 68 words, spelled and punctuated correctly? Incroible :D
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4 (trying for a bit more of 6 as well.)
Class 3 and 5 equals 90% of the MA. Good post.
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Originally posted by Max
Hitech wrote a paragraph of 68 words, spelled and punctuated correctly? Incroible :D
Try reading it again. Especially look at weekness and taked. Also it is incredible not incroible. Mistakes happen. You should not be a spelling critic. LOL
<>
Spazz
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Originally posted by Rolex
Denial Examples:
- "I can't believe he shot me down!"
- "That (shot, move, maneuver) is impossible!"
- "That can't be right!"
Anger Examples:
- "The (flight, damage) model is hosed!"
- "It's HTCs fault!"
- "He's cheating!"
I know quite a few long-timers that are being stuck in those two stages. Most of them could be much better if they would stop to blame everyone else for their cartoon combat death. But that would require an open mind and accepting the fact that indeed someone else could be better than them.
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Good post Murdr. That about covers it. Plus if most of those guys used 200 for a "Wow how'd you do that?"/ "Come to DA I'll show you" instead of getting diareah of the fingers and typing "YOU CAN"T DO THAT!"/ " Lets DA I'll own you" things would be alot better in here...as well as the pilots.
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Originally posted by pluck
Most interesting that these rankings move away from, "I've been playing for 4 years, I'm a vet," and focus more on your style. So according to these definitions, you could by a 4 year long player and still be in class 1, which I think is an appropriate definition.
Yep. Quite a few have been around for years and always fly like a 3. They get irritated when they are not shown respect for thier "smart" flying style. Main difference between 3 and 5 is that the 3 avoids even fights because they don't have the skills to handle them. The 5 can handle themselves in any angles or E fight, but they play it safe to maintain their uber score.
Main difference between 5 and 6 is attitude and motivation. A vet knows they are a vet (as do many others), and have no need to prove it to anyone with scores or anything else (not to say they won't put the smackdown on a smart mouth when called for). The ace on the other hand is still in the mode of saying "Aww comon, look how great I am! How can you not see that I am a vet?" To the contrary the vet has had enough of the 'gunfighter syndrome' (players looking to test themselves against them) and likely want less attention, not more.
There have been a couple of styles systems like this...but I am fond of this one. The whole scale is a mix of attitude, skill, and motive regardless of time in game.
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I think im a 4/6, not entirely sure...
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4/6 all the way baby :aok
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You are all liars. No way you guys are 4/5/6, most of you are 2/3. You are just in denial.
I am not in denial, I know that I am a -6.
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Good post. I guess I'm a 6/4 without the skills of the vets. I'm well into the "acceptance" stage (I skipped ahead).
The game is a blast and I'm getting better all the time. I still need to sign up for some formal training, I can hold my own in typical MA stuff but have my hands full when I get paired off in a 1v1 with an experienced pilot.
I'm still amazed at how many adults have their ego boosted or hurt by what happens in the game.
Aspen
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So...it's like learning how to play an instrument, or sport, or anything else worthwhile.
I need to listen and read. I need to practice, practice, and more practice.
Then work hard at reaching the skill level of an ACE.
Works for this new guy. Feel free to critique my flying till I become good. :aok
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I'm 4-like but sometimes I start getting to cranky then I have to stop playing for awhile.. when I get back on again i feel like a 1:lol
dont forget BBStacker its not just work, its fun too..
the best part about being a cartoon pilot-- is that you are a cartoon pilot:aok
I've seen your work ethic you will better than me in no time .. at least you didn't pick my uber blue plane:lol
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3
although i must admit its hard to sukerfish many kills off Chanzz, he kills everything he sees.
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Lol. Ya don't rate yourselves...although is it amusing to see so many of you have such high opinions of yourselves.
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I R teh 1 n teh 4
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I'll try to put a rating on some of the notables (aka, knuckels,Lusche,Warlockl,Fester,LYNX,SR,Corky,Murdr,BearKats)
All get 4/6 and some of them fall into the 5 category every once in a while......
I put myself into the 4 category, and halfway fall into 6.
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Originally posted by SuBWaYCH
I'll try to put a rating on some of the notables (aka, knuckels,Lusche,Warlockl,Fester,LYNX,SR,Corky,Murdr,BearKats)
All get 4/6 and some of them fall into the 5 category every once in a while......
Ty, but, all joking aside, while I do occasionaly fall into category 4, I have absolutely no place in category 6.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Lol. although is it amusing to see so many of you have such high opinions of yourselves.
Remember when we ranked our fellow community members on furball central.com? I still have mine somewhere. heheh found them. Here is what Murdr said about me way back then:
"Steve is a great 51, he knows how to stay out of trouble, but does not run at the sight of an enemy like some pony jockeys.. Seems like a great guy too. Someday maybe I'll get to finish a fight with him.(He doesn't want to get sucked in and I don't want to chase and we just walk away LOL)"
Shawk wrote this
"Steve is a great pony stick, maybe the best I've seen. If you wing with him don't count on many kills because he'll steal them all.
Survival dweeb and hates to die, but will take risks to protect his wingie.Funny as hell, also. Thank God he ain't shooting at me anymore LOL"
That was a fun website.
ditto
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Originally posted by jhookt
ditto
All except those were other's opinions. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Murdr
AKAK (http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/akak.htm), Crims (http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/crims.htm), Murdr (http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/murdr.htm), ZZ3 (http://www.airwarrioronline.com/films/zz3.htm)
Yep, Steve was quoting from a page like these where other players ranked him (pages are archived from a now defunct site).
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Originally posted by Murdr
What the hot topic of the day comes down to is a clash of playing styles. S.
Good post - but where do the alcoholics and squeekers fit in ? I'm thinking mainly [Class 2]
Shamroc
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LOL! I had forgotten about these rankings. Brings back good memories reading them and a chuckle or two.
ack-ack