Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DoNKeY on October 13, 2007, 08:51:17 PM
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Hey guys, just looking for some tips/advice on managing my throttle efficiently. I have heard a lot of talk about it, but have always kept the idea in the back of my mind...I pretty much always fire walled it.
If it helps, I fly the D pony almost exclusively, so I usually fight in the vert, with a lot of loops, immels, yo-yo's and split ess's (to bad I haven't quite figured out when the right time is to use each one:D ). Anyway, what are some of the times I should throttle back? Like at the tops of loops and such? I'm guessing that throttling back allows you to turn tighter, but I always have had this little voice saying that if I throttle back, I'll slow down, and if I'm at the top of a loop or something, and close to stall speed, that won't help me.
So yeah, basically looking for some advice, throttle no-no's, tips, etc.
Thanks guys.
donkey
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Now if I remember correctly, to make a Loop perfect, and head in the same alt, and at the same speed you were when you started, it does take some throttle moving. I know you cut down a bit near the fall, right after you top out and start coming down. Though, I could be terribly, terribly wrong. ;)
For Split S's I tend to chop throttle, but I don't like to give up alot of alt. Atleast when I'm attacking. Running on the other hand, I'll just flip it over and once I level out I'll Zero G dive to the deck (or my best speed possible at a lower alt) and just zoom away.
I should mention I rarly escape. :lol
So I wouldn't listen to me, but I'd like to know what the better guys do.
This game doesn't have a learning curve, this game has a learning boomerang. You throw stuff out there, and if it's decent it'll come back to your hand in the form of skill (or hit you in the head). But if you throw it bad you won't get anything back. Cept a long walk home with a chute behind you.
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Lol at the boomerang.
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Trust your instincts, if you slow down, you will turn tighter.
Think energy, not speed. Energy is a combination of both altitude and speed. Moving energy from speed to altitude or altitude to speed, maintains your energy level. Slowing down by converting energy so you can turn tighter is a good thing to know.
You have a limited speed range, so you can only save a limited ammount of energy by transfering energy from speed to altitude, or visa versa. For example, if your at 30K, and you want to drop down to 10K, your going to have to burn off some energy. If you don't, you will overspeed and you will compress and you will become a wingless lawn dart.
There are times you need to trade energy for position. Turning takes energy. Higher Gs turns mean higher energy loss. Reducing throttle, using flaps, or pulling high Gs will turn you tigher.
Gunner
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double post... opps :)
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Here's my two cents on throttle work, and how I manage mine. (Bear in mind I fly F4U's, so some definate similarities to the pony apply, with some definate differences.)
First- the way I use throttle may be considered wrong by many, so take it with a grain of salt...
I regards to fighting in the vert- I use the immels, loops, yo-yo's etc, but personally, I reserve the split S as a last ditch "get-out-of dodge" manuever only. I don't look at it like a "fighting" manuever, but rather as an "escaping" manuever.
I don't like it as a fighting manuever because it puts me lower, and usually faster which doesn't help me in the way I prefer to fight. Dang good way to escape though!
As far as throttle- there are definate times to be fire-walled and WEP'ed, and times to back off. I never stop the engine, but I often back the throttle all the way off. Good examples of backing off would be in a fight where I'm struggling to get and / or stay behind my opponent. I back off the throttle to turn tighter, to avoid excessive speed when nose down, to help me cause overshoots, and to help my avoid overshooting myself.
Slowing down in a fight may seem risky, because in a plane like the pony or F4U once you slow down your options for escaping will be lessened. However, slowing down at the right time can give you a solid shot opportunity that may end the fight early. One trick to surviving is to get your fights over with ASAP. Fights draw crowds, which is bad in a slow pony. The longer you're in a fight, the more time for bad guys to find you. Also, if you're opponent is in a "better turner" dragging the fight out too long generally depletes your E advantage anyway, and plays into his hands.
Top of a loop? Firewalled, maybe even WEP'ed. On the way "down" in the loop? Back off the throttle.
Slowing down will help you to turn tighter. But slowing down too much will make you turn worse. Slowing down is good, slowing down too much is bad.
Another easy way / time to lower throttle is after you've made 2-3 passes on a lower or slower enemy. Keep your speed up at first, and let him show you his evasive move of choice, and his timing. Let him get comfortable in your attack move and timing. Then chop throttle on the way down, rudder skid a bit, and drop onto his six at just above his airspeed, so you can follow him through his evasive and kill him. Watch him squirm a bit if you want...
Try that without chopping throttle, and you'll overshoot, and likely die.
Start the fight fast, and try to convince him that speed will help him too (him having some speed, and / or being unwilling to scrub it all, will keep him from turning too tight when you try for a shot). Then quickly slow down and latch onto his six. He basically has to turn tight in an effort to dislodge you. There are other options for him but if you catch him by surprise he'll usually just panic and try to break hard. Kill him then. If you miss, DON'T follow but rather go straight to keep and recover some speed and try again. This will allow you to fight from an advantaged state again (you retain E while he burns it in his break turn).
The beauty of a fast plane like a pony or hog is that you can fight like that for a long time if needed. The slower plane (Spit? N1K?) can't get away, and is forced to try dodging your shots.
Leaving your throttle firewalled will make it easier for bad guys to get behind you, and stay there. Reducing throttle at the right time makes it easier for you to get behind them. You only need to stay there long enough to shoot them. Shoot 'em quick, because in a pony you won't be able to stay there long!
MtnMan
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The split S could easily be used aggressively for diving on an opponent. I generally don't make my attacks quite like that, but rather in more of what I think of as a yo-yo, or at least in a very "angled" (oblique) form of split S, so I don't really think of it as a Split S...
It could easily be considered a split S though, come to think of it, hehe.
Sorry for the confusion (bonfire, beer, Saturday night, etc)
MtnMan
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what do you guys use to control throtlle the keyboard, buttons on joystick or the thumbwheel on the joystick?
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I use my throttle :D I have all CH equipment (Stick, throttle, pedals). It took awhile to save up to get them all, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
Throttle control is another one of those things that nobody can give you an answer for, much like "how far do I lead a target?", "when, and how much flap do I use?". Its a feel thing. If your coming in on a target too fast and your not under pressure, chop it, if there are multiple targets around give up the shot and reset for a new one.
Thats another thing that separates people who play this game. To some its an all out shoot and kill everything you come across.....these guys NEVER throttle down, and those that play this game like a fighter would. They use their head, think about what they are doing, what the enemy target is doing, what options both players have and so on. To these guys, it one big chess match. Time and practice will teach you how much, and when to chop your throttle.
Oh and btw, Congrats on your graduation from "Air Quake" to the world of flight sims! :t
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I'd definately recommend a throttle on your joystick as well. I use the X52, which has a seperate throttle, but used the basic joystick / throttle combos for several years. I liked the saitek Cyborg EVO before I switched to the X52.
I buy my sticks with the 2 year guarantee, and just take them back to Best Buy and swap for a new one when one wears out. The Cyborg sticks generally lasted me 2-3 months. The X52 lasts about a year, from what I can see.
MtnMan
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I usually fly some sort jug, and throttle stays 100% unless I'm diving or split essing...takes a LOONNNNNGggggg time to get E back up in level flight...I'm thinking 51 has similar issue
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A question with a complex answer beyond my ability to fully articulate. Alot of good stuff already.
1) throttle work varies by technique...little (but some) in B&Z , variable but important in "E" fighting and very important in angles fighting...
2) Throttle use is dependent on circumstance. Are you offensive, defensive or nuetral? Does your plane turn better or worse then your opponent, climb better? accelerate better? bleed E better?
B&Z
Use throttle to mangage your shot window. Coming off the gas on your pass gives you a better firing window....
Energy fighting
The goal is to maintain an advantage but balance that with constant pressure that doesnt allow the con to "breath" and regroup. As you tighten the noose you need to bleed E by manuever and/or throttle as required tightening the noose (http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/A-20/grmrpr1.ahf) {this is A-20 clip I posted earlier on shot setup}
T&B
You cant win a fight with a decent stick in a one on one without coming off the gas at some point. I'm "off the gas" as much as 50-60% of a fight vs Bat or another good stick in DA (will look for a clip or two)....
Sometimes speed kills....
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I started out by firewalling the throttles. Of course, I've paid for that philosophy by overshooting the target and hanging my tail right into the enemy's gunsight.
I'm learning a lot by watching the training films and listening to proper throttle management. Thanks to all those making the films that help me learn :aok
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Yeah, thanks guys for all of the help.:aok
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Here is an exercise I use regularly to help me with my throttle control and timing:
Go to the TA (Training Arena) and select your favorite aircraft.
In the hangar, fill it 100% full of fuel (this makes you very heavy).
Take off and fly out over the water at full throttle and stay 50 feet or less above the water whilst making circles (flat turns) and throttle down slowly until you are so very near stall speed you almost wallow into the water. Use flaps, throttle control and WEP to see just how long you can circle (make a figure 8) without hitting the water.
Then...once you feel comfortable doing that, climb up to 15K over the field, select a single Hangar and make consecutive loops through it. See how many you can make in a row before augering, or running out of fuel. Then repeat the exercise using 2, or more, Hangars.
Next, do the water exercise over the field, but use flat turns to make a course through several Hangars.
An added benefit to this exercise (or exercises) is that you must be able to switch views comfortably and keep the Hangars in sight at all times.
Just my 2 cents.
Good Luck!
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Donkey...
Take a look at spatula's clip of our fight. Great primer for flap and throttle work in an E fight. you'll see he's adjusting on both the offense and defense. Without the throttle work he's going to miss shots and take hits that he converts/avoids. That feel for flaps and throttle is where you seperate yourself from "average" by expanding your planes flight envelope.