Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: Sketch on October 15, 2007, 10:22:57 PM

Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Sketch on October 15, 2007, 10:22:57 PM
Been getting this a lot as of late and am not too sure why.  Will be flying around for a little while and then poof, Host Connection message and have to pop back in.  Not sure what is going on and have a steady connection.  This has just started happening about 2 weeks ago.  Any suggestions at what is causing it?  I have run a Pin for the arenas and all seems well but am not 100% sure.  Also done a Tracert and am not sure as I am new to that one...  Any help on this would be nice.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 16, 2007, 06:06:14 AM
This is easy.  Road Runner recently made the switch to Level3 for thier Tier 1 transport to/from the Internet.  Level3 is a horrible backbone provider whose network is always oversold.  Packet loss is always happening somewhere on their network.

Comcast has also moved to Level3 as well.

As to why.  Level3 is cheap.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: AKDogg on October 16, 2007, 08:06:21 AM
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/Sketchwork/PingPlotter2BlueArena.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/Sketchwork/PingPlotterEWMWLWO.jpg

Here is his Ping plots.  He goes through ATT and looks like ATT is his problem but not sure.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 16, 2007, 09:27:30 AM
The problem is actually on the return trip.  On return, his route goes through Level3.

Here is the trace;
I traced to the router in his third hop as it is the first IP address which is a real one.  The first two show he is going through what appears to be, two NAT's.
----------
traceroute 24.25.1.161
traceroute to 24.25.1.161 (24.25.1.161), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  206.16.60.33 (206.16.60.33)  1.072 ms  0.615 ms  0.560 ms
 2  mdf1-gsr12-1-gig-2-0.dal1.attens.net (63.241.192.205)  0.257 ms  0.208 ms  0.163 ms
 3  12.122.255.77 (12.122.255.77)  0.977 ms  0.986 ms  0.837 ms
 4  12.123.16.210 (12.123.16.210)  1.686 ms  2.030 ms  1.503 ms
 5  12.123.16.193 (12.123.16.193)  1.112 ms  1.191 ms  1.041 ms
 6  br2-a340s5.wswdc.ip.att.net (192.205.34.138)  1.338 ms  1.380 ms  1.325 ms
 7  ae-32-54.ebr2.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.68.122.126)  5.999 ms  2.253 ms  1.960 ms
 8  ae-1-100.ebr1.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.69.132.45)  2.446 ms  2.200 ms  13.924 ms
 9  ae-6-6.car1.Miami1.Level3.net (4.69.133.1)  35.611 ms  35.695 ms  35.567 ms
10  ae-11-11.car2.Miami1.Level3.net (4.69.133.6)  35.802 ms  35.807 ms  35.757 ms
11  * ae-4-4.ebr2.Atlanta2.Level3.net (4.69.133.10)  33.061 ms  34.407 ms
12  ae-1-100.ebr1.Atlanta2.Level3.net (4.69.132.33)  37.587 ms  41.635 ms  36.519 ms
13  ae-4-4.car1.Charlotte1.Level3.net (4.69.132.161)  40.174 ms  40.131 ms  40.111 ms
14  ROADRUNNER.car1.Charlotte1.Le vel3.net (4.71.124.6)  40.626 ms  40.511 ms  40.508 ms
15  gig4-0-0.rlghnca-rtr2.southeast.rr.com (24.93.64.177)  45.744 ms  45.756 ms  45.721 ms
16  pos14-0.rlghncg-rtr2.nc.rr.com (24.25.20.22)  40.248 ms  40.350 ms  40.105 ms
17  srp2-0.rlghnck-rtr1.nc.rr.com (24.25.2.153)  46.786 ms *  46.912 ms
----

Anytime Level3 is in the path you can just about be gauranteed packet loss on the connection.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: lengro on October 16, 2007, 10:23:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Level3 is a horrible backbone provider whose network is always oversold.  Packet loss is always happening somewhere on their network.


From me in Denmark to Hitech:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
.
.
.
  6     8 ms     7 ms     8 ms  ge-0-0-0.mp1.Copenhagen1.Level3.net [4.68.125.189]
  7    29 ms    30 ms    30 ms  as-2-0.bbr2.London1.Level3.net [4.68.128.213]
  8   103 ms    94 ms    95 ms  ae-0-0.bbr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.159.1.42]
  9    95 ms    95 ms    95 ms  ae-43-99.car3.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.16.197]
 10    95 ms    95 ms    95 ms  att-level3-oc192.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.127.150]
 11   142 ms   142 ms   141 ms  tbr1.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.123.0.90]
 12   141 ms   141 ms   141 ms  cr2.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.16.133]
 13   138 ms   139 ms   138 ms  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.3.38]
 14   143 ms   141 ms   141 ms  tbr1.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.16.62]
 15   138 ms   139 ms   139 ms  tbr1.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.10.30]
 16   138 ms   139 ms   138 ms  tbr2.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.10.90]
 17   138 ms   137 ms   138 ms  br2.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.123.16.213]
 18   138 ms   138 ms   138 ms  mdf1-gsr12-1-pos-7-0.dal1.attens.net [12.122.255.82]
 19     *      139 ms   139 ms  mdf1-bi8k-2-eth-2-2.dal1.attens.net [63.241.192.218]
 20   138 ms   138 ms   137 ms  206.16.60.38
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I recently changed ISP - never had a dropped connection problem with the old provider, but they happens often with the new one.

I guess hop 6-10 explains why...
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 16, 2007, 10:31:42 AM
lengro, I traced back to your hop #6, as the problem is on the return trip to your computer.
---
traceroute 4.68.125.189
traceroute to 4.68.125.189 (4.68.125.189), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  206.16.60.33 (206.16.60.33)  0.726 ms  0.604 ms  0.557 ms
 2  mdf1-gsr12-1-gig-2-1.dal1.attens.net (63.241.192.41)  0.232 ms  0.204 ms  0.179 ms
 3  12.122.255.81 (12.122.255.81)  0.933 ms  0.948 ms  0.871 ms
 4  12.123.16.214 (12.123.16.214)  155.620 ms  1.608 ms  1.568 ms
 5  12.122.86.209 (12.122.86.209)  1.609 ms  56.970 ms  2.225 ms
 6  br2-a340s5.wswdc.ip.att.net (192.205.34.138)  1.406 ms  1.356 ms  1.336 ms
 7  ae-2-56.bbr2.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.68.122.161)  1.679 ms  1.757 ms  1.739 ms
 8  as-0-0.bbr1.Dusseldorf1.Level3.net (212.187.128.98)  122.116 ms  122.580 ms  122.139 ms
 9  * * *
10  * * *
11  * * *
12

I cannot reach 4.68.125.189 at the moment as it is dieing in Level3's network.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: termjg3 on October 16, 2007, 12:44:48 PM
Hi,

I think I had same issues during Grosse Schlag ...
Just suddenly disconnected.

In Event viewer I have only:

Faulting application aceshigh.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module aceshigh.exe, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x0009536b.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Fault bucket 522681563.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

It could have been another issue with some Nvidia driver or Sound card problem but I was online and flying about 1 hour with no problems ...

Just telling ...
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Sketch on October 16, 2007, 05:19:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
This is easy.  Road Runner recently made the switch to Level3 for thier Tier 1 transport to/from the Internet.  Level3 is a horrible backbone provider whose network is always oversold.  Packet loss is always happening somewhere on their network.

Comcast has also moved to Level3 as well.

As to why.  Level3 is cheap.


So how do I switch this then so it is not happening during the game all the time?  Or do I get rid of Road Runner or am I SOL?  :D
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 16, 2007, 05:28:40 PM
Road Runner certainly is not going to make a change for you.  So what are your options?
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Sketch on October 16, 2007, 06:38:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Road Runner certainly is not going to make a change for you.  So what are your options?

Besides smashing my head into the desk.... :furious
Well, I can check around and see what other options there are for me with internet here in Goldsboro, NC.  I have about 7 months left here in the military and will be moving, but man I don't want to deal with this for that long... I just got rid of my headaches!  :D
Anything I can do settings wise?
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: AKDogg on October 16, 2007, 10:08:57 PM
I currently use RCN Cable service (20meg DL/2 meg UL service).  Did have Verizon DSL (5 meg DL/ 768K UL Service).  Both worked great for me with no issues.  Not sure if either are available to U Sketch.  Tried there websites to see if service is available and it says your address can't be located.  Must be that u on a AF base.  U probably gonna have to call the direct to find out.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: DerHelm on October 17, 2007, 03:32:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sketch
Besides smashing my head into the desk.... :furious
Well, I can check around and see what other options there are for me with internet here in Goldsboro, NC.  I have about 7 months left here in the military and will be moving, but man I don't want to deal with this for that long... I just got rid of my headaches!  :D
Anything I can do settings wise?


Sketch can you provide a trace route to Hitech and we can see from there.

I can't agree with Level 3 being the worst or over sold.
I've delt with Level3, MCI, AT&T, Quest, WV Fiber, Race, Above Net, Noa Net ... And Level 3 (and MCI) Have taken network issue seriously compared to the others, while Quest is fastly making my ***** list.
 Level 3 is even being considered by google to be bought (God I wish I had that much money.) But maybe this is just a regional thing, I am in SoCal, and here TWC RR been using Level 3 for many years not including when they tried to use ATDN. But Level 3 network map looks pretty damn good over there http://www.level3.com/images/global_map/Level_3_Network_map.pdf
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 17, 2007, 05:42:43 AM
Level3 was okay until they started providing backbone to Road Runner and Comcast.  Since then they have gone into the proverbial toilet.  I cannot find a path through thier network which does not suffer packet loss and/or some router flap.

Glad you are having good luck with them.  I cannot get them to even look into a problem, potential, or otherwise.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Sketch on October 18, 2007, 05:41:25 PM
So for this problem Skuzzy, would my best bet be to just look for another provider?  I ran the Ping-Plotter for about 35 minutes today and took some more shots of it and then logged into the game, went and picked my kid up from day-care and when I got back I was Disco'ed again.
But in a sense, without a different provider I am just SOL or is there a way around it besides that.... :huh
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: DerHelm on October 18, 2007, 07:22:50 PM
Well

RR is saying the best route from You to HTC (which is on AT&T's network/AS) is to use ATDN (AOL)

On the Return AT&T is saying is best way to get to you specific IP block (24.25.0.0/19) is to take Level 3.

Since it's suggested that Level 3 is not somethign you would want if you are going to HTC and it is the return route that is makign it go to Level 3
 and HTC is being hosted on the AT&T thus a paying customer, they can request the route to be changed on AT&T's side to force ATDN as the preferable route.

*By "best route" I mean it in terms of BGP routing prefs, NOT that is 100% hard core the BEST ROUTE, far from it.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: DerHelm on October 18, 2007, 09:19:56 PM
Acording to AT&T's Dallas Router there doesn't seem to be anything special about going to RR in your area.

7018 3356 11426, (received & used)
    12.123.17.244 from 12.123.17.244 (12.123.17.244)
      Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 7018:5000 7018:36244

There is some prepending from RR to Level 3, but nothing that would effect your IP prefix, it's only for other routes, so I know they can and have done it, just not for you.

So it should be that much for AT&T to do. Generall AT&T is just preferring Level 3 over ATDN.

So you shouldn't have to get a new ISP.

But this is just from the  Dallas, TX  routers. It could possibly look a lot different from the wswdc.ip.att.net routers., which I do not have access to, and seems to be a tad odd... But that doesn't mean anything.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 19, 2007, 06:44:47 AM
AT&T runs a fully asynchronous network.  They have inbound routers and outbound routers.  They do not share the same backbones.  Bordering on moronic if you ask me, but that is how they have thier network configured.

It took an act of Congress to get them to not route all our outbound packets to thier Kansas City hub before handing off to another backbone.

Avoiding Level3 is getting to be impossible to do.  A while back we tried another ISP here in D/FW.  Would have really liked to have switched to them,. but they used Level3 as thier Tier 1 ISP.  We discovered then it would not work out.  Level3 has gotten worse since then.

The only reason they have not been a factor is other ISP's were using other Tier 1 providers for most of their transport.  Now RR and Comcast both have gone to Level3 for transport.

Not much we can do.  AT&T is the only local ISP who can handle our requirements for service, and for a long time did not use Level3 for transport at all.  Now, it seems all the local colo shops use Level3.  It is a shame.

I guess the number of Tier 1 ISP's that are stable is getting difficult to find up as they seem to all be in some state of closing, being bought, or merging with another ISP.  I know that cannot help the situation either.

This would not be an issue at all if they would just fix thier network.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Rolex on October 19, 2007, 07:21:13 AM
I'm curious. Do you have an industry trade association, Skuzzy?
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 19, 2007, 09:23:29 AM
Could you be a bit more specific?
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Sketch on October 19, 2007, 12:45:10 PM
Skuzzy,
If I switched to a AT&T service as far as internet goes, would that help out with my situation?
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 19, 2007, 12:52:18 PM
I honestly do not know.  It might, it might not.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Rolex on October 20, 2007, 01:27:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Could you be a bit more specific?


Like NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) or AAM (Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers) or CEA (Consumer Electronics Association). An organization for on-line gaming companies to consolidate influence in standards or connectivity, etc?
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: Skuzzy on October 20, 2007, 06:05:59 AM
Even if something like that did exist, it would be powerless to get anything accomplished.  Read any contract you sign with a phone company or cable service ISP and the only thing they have to provide is the last mile.

There is nothing, anywhere, in writting that says the Internet has to work.
Title: Host Connection Lost as of Late
Post by: DerHelm on October 20, 2007, 04:04:56 PM
AT&T has to peer with Level 3 or else AT&T will lose their status as a teir 1 network making them useless.

It sounds like you guys are on the wrong end of the deal with AT&T. I would imagine you have no less than a DS3 with them, and you TOS should be that of a bussiness class. With is about the same as ours as our (even though I'm with an ISP, both fall under Data Services) In your TOS if you specify a probelm (with proof) on their network or their routing which includes peering, they have to correct this problem or give a reasonable explaining to why it's not an issue.

When we had trouble with AT&T and they were takign their sweet bellybutton time, we could go to their west coast director and he would kick some butts for us. Lately AT&T only problem with us is they have been slow as hell. It shoudl take +2 months to order a OC3, Still waiting on a Gig link for over 4 month, and they still can't quote us on a peer to peer transport. But I think it's cuase they are still trying to work out their ADSL2 idea with doesn't look so hot, cuase it's not good enough to compete for what they want it to do.

If AT&T can't do this for you, maybe you guys should switch over to an ISP that is multihomed and aceepts comunities strings (decent ones,) but you would have to switch over to BGP and get your own AS #,  you wont have to get your own IP block, but it would help. It's not that hard to get a /24 from ARIN. When I need a /17 I just ask for a /18. Seems to be easier to request higher an need and get what you actualy want, then to request what is needed and justify it.