Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Rich46yo on October 16, 2007, 12:17:42 PM
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Hahaha, the way some of these guys setup attacks on bombers is just beautiful. While I dont enjoy getting shot down I do love the way some of these uber-sticks setup and execute. Part of the reason I give a
after getting shotup is not just good sportsmanship, tho it is that, but I do admire a perfectly setup and executed attack. Most of all a "patient" one.
One guy chopped me up for 3 months before he finally made one mistake. One! After all those engagements one mistake. He hung up just a few 0001s to close to a top cannon. Dont get me wrong, I do win some of these, but I seem to learn more by losing so that takes the sting out of the chutes opening.
And in the F3 views, and there are a lot of them, you get a real good look at not just the attacks but the patience and thought behind them. Yesterday I dropped on a CV and headed for home the long way. On the way back I ran into a high F4U and we ducked, and danced, and dodged for advantage for like 10 minutes. I got him close by slowly leaning off the throttle and hosed him some. It was the last mistake he made. He didn't come in, thankfully cause that plane is like an armored creature from hell when it has "E" on you, but he did have me once when I let him have both the sun and the angle.
After he left at first I thought he was either a coward or low on fuel. Then it hit me! He was there to protect the CV and he didn't know I was bingo on bombs. I thought it was beautiful the way he worked my 26s away from that CV while still keeping an eye on it. Outstanding gameplay in my book.
And thats the thing about the really good ones. They just dont make many mistakes and they are patient against bombers. I'd rather fight a guy who breaks off and sets up again then one who gets greedy and suicidal. The good ones are the ones who control the engagement.
And Im always scheming, training, spending time in the TA, improvising, trying new things, practicing gunning, and then scheming some more. And always, always, always, learning!
Its a thrill to fly against the uber-sticks. And an even bigger one to survive it. Since Ive gone tactical in medium bombers Ive learned the game far better. Because its flying against the uber-sticks that will allow you to grow.
.....bombrich
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I'm definately not an uber-stick.
But I knows what I knows, and I knows that the secret (for me) for attacking buffs is patience.
Every single time I've been killed attacking buffs it's due to getting impatient and attacking from level 6.
It takes time and patience to set up a good slashing attack, reset, and do it again and again.
If I'm very patient, I can usually take down bombers without getting scratched...but it takes alot of discipline that I seem to lose the more I drink late Friday night...LOL.
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I look forward to meeting your buffs in my K4, then.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/Aces%20High/109K4vLancMission9II.jpg)
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Patience is mandatory.
B17's seem to be the hardest for me to kill. I've tried a few different approaches with some success leading one way or the other depending on who's flying them. Without a doubt having alt is key to easier repeat attacks. Fly through them then climb out and try it again without getting to shot up.
Coming across a bomber on your first pass might get you a kill or even two if you can put some in the windshield. Taking rear guns out is sometimes easy and sometimes not but once they stop shooting at you their all yours. Let the lead plane live and kill the other two first.
Head on's don't seem to work for me against bombers, I don't know if anyone else has had success against them this way.
Another trick I use is coming in from 45 degree angle working throt and rudder and once close enough use full rudder to get as many hits in the side of them as i can while slip sliding around them. You blow a lot of E that way but your hard to hit and can take 2 out quick.
This one works good when going up against a skilled gunner. I'll keep him in sight but just out of range while he's on the way to his target . When he gets close I'll dive in hoping he's in calibration mode and or in scope. Worst case, you blew his drop. He'll have to turn around sooner or later and as long as your patient, you'll have another shot at him when he's most vulnerable.
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I've only seen this once, but I've heard others talk about it.
If you stalk the bombers as they close the target, sometimes you can see the bombays open, which is a good indication he has his nose in the gunsight. As soon as you see the bombay opening, roll in and start a prolonged pass.
I suppose the more experienced bomber pilots might abandon their run to man the guns, but many more will focus on completing the run at which point they're easy pickins.
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Patience Schmatience. Here's my kills and deaths against heavy buffs so far this camp:
B-17 4-1
B-24 20-2
B-26 2-1
Lanc 7-1
Total 33-5
Almost all are from level or high six. Why mess around wasting time when it's so easy this way? Sure I might survive a couple more times but I'm happy with a 6.5:1 K/D ratio.
If you're good enough to shoot me down before I blow the wings off your bombers with my 190A-8 or 110G-2 then .
[EDIT] BTW, probably half my deaths are my own stupidity... collisions!
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This'll give you pause:
bombrich has been killed 3 times by Doras; meanwhile, he has 5 kills of Doras.
Scarey!
fun post there bombrich, hope I can find you in the arenas.
regards, T. E. Shaw
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Originally posted by TEShaw
This'll give you pause:
bombrich has been killed 3 times by Doras; meanwhile, he has 5 kills of Doras.
Scarey!
fun post there bombrich, hope I can find you in the arenas.
regards, T. E. Shaw
Doras aren't good buff hunters.
He's killed 4 190A-8's and been killed by them 15 times.
No cause for pause.
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As far as patience goes, there's two sticks I respect: Simaril and Lusche.
These guys know how to approach bombers with speed and the right angle. My last encounter with Sim was a draw (My B17s vs. his Jug), and Lusche will absolutely kick my prettythang in his 262 because he gets into all the hard angles where I can't lead very well with my turrets.
Don't ever get on my level six.:cool: FlaydONE sent me a gunsight with a 1K mark on it that works wonderfully.:D
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I think he was in B26s? All you have to do is come up from under them. No guns there.
I'm going to the TA too tonight. i need some point and destroy practice
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Originally posted by dedalos
I'm going to the TA too tonight. i need some point and destroy practice
You need a lot more then that.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Doras aren't good buff hunters.
He's killed 4 190A-8's and been killed by them 15 times.
No cause for pause.
I never posed as a great Buff stick. Nor did I refer to any of my stats and dont see why anyone would bother looking.
For one thing stats are misleading. Goons are counted as bombers, get jumped a few times in the bombsight or on landing, and boom! your stats can look ragged. A lot of things can happen with ranks and stats. Ive come across some terrific sticks with rather poor ranks. But who cares right? And why would anyone even bring it up? Shaw thank you for the compliment sir. Hopefully one day i will be a really good gunner.
Ive also ran into some guys in 190s that really know what they are doing. So to them.
Try coming under my 26s. I have a surprise waiting for you.;)
I dont even know what a Dora is guys. Ive only been in the freaking game 3 tours.
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Originally posted by thndregg
As far as patience goes, there's two sticks I respect: Simaril and Lusche.
These guys know how to approach bombers with speed and the right angle. My last encounter with Sim was a draw (My B17s vs. his Jug), and Lusche will absolutely kick my prettythang in his 262 because he gets into all the hard angles where I can't lead very well with my turrets.
Don't ever get on my level six.:cool: FlaydONE sent me a gunsight with a 1K mark on it that works wonderfully.:D
Yeah Lusche is just brutal in that 262.:O Always a "pucker" when he's rolling at you in that thing.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Try coming under my 26s. I have a surprise waiting for you.;)
Something tells me it wont be a surprise
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
I never posed as a great Buff stick. Nor did I refer to any of my stats and dont see why anyone would bother looking.
Sorry, I only brought it up in response to TEShaw's post regarding your numbers against Dora's but it made me curious to see what the numbers were against A-8's, which was what my original post was about.
See... if TEShaw had never brought it up, I'd have never looked.
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I try to use the "high sides attack" against bombers. I like to be above them, about 1.5K out, slightly in front so that I can see the buffs just behind my wingtip. Then roll into the bomber formation for a firing pass. Repeat until buffs are gone. Usually with little risk to yourself.
Sometimes I mix up the passes by dropping below the bombers for the firing pass. I figure the pilot has to switch guns and gets a little confused with this type of attack.
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Well as long as we're dropping scores, this tour I have:
Kills of:
B-17: 8
Ju-88: 3
Ar 234: 2
B-24: 1
Boston: 1
B-26: 1
Killed by:
B-17: 1 (in a spit 16, that was my drunk kill lol)
Ki-67: 1 (999000, attacked level 6 on the deck, stupid stupid)
I think my kills are mostly in the Typhoon, with a couple in spit 16, and probably 1 or 2 each in the Pony and Corsair. I got the Ar-234's in a Seafire of all things doing carrier defense, right place at right time, and the dude flew a really predictable flight path.
I've been really concentrating on patience. Both bomber kills of me this tour came from being stupid, the B-17 kill was because I was drunk, late at night, and I got lazy and plowed in from level 6. 999000 hit me because, well, it was him, although I got him last night (woot!).
Anyway, that's an 8:1 K/D, not too bad.
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i am not a fantastic buff killer but the 2 tactics i find work well are:
1: Headon pass aiming for cockpits...anything from the front really...works pretty good for me
2: side belly passes seems to set b24s and lancs on fire easily...im aiming for their bomb bays and flames come out....then i stay away til they explode
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In mid-war:
Kills of:
B26: 3
Ju88: 2
Lanc: 2
B25: 1
Most in P-38, Perhaps a couple in a 109G6 or 1 in a 190A5.
No deaths to bombers yet, although I got PW'd in a P-38 making a lazy pass on Rodant57 (or something like that) that I was lucky enough to get home safely. I then proceeded to kill 2 of his lancs after I re-upped by taking a very patient approach, probably a good 10 minutes of chasing and setting up before I made both runs.
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If I get into a fight with bombs still on board does that increase my chances of blowing up? I know that sounds like a dumb question but Ive heard both kinda answers.
Side attacks, even level ones, can be very effective as long as the fighter stick doesn't get greedy or lose his awareness. Many will try and do to much with the pass and end up hanging up. Better off to slice and then recover and slice again. I just had two fighters climb right up my 6. I killed both from 1,000 out. I guess shooting at those targets in the TA is starting to pay off.
A 190 tried dancing in my 6 on another one. Dancing in can be effective, the trouble with that is if your to busy dancing you cant line up to shoot. Thats what happened with this guy. I actually blew his first pass and got him with the 2nd one.
The thing about guys like Lusche, and the others in his class, is that they are both patient and decisive at the same time. When they have control of the engagement they go right for the jugular without hesitation.
One thing I like about the 26s and the KI-67s is they both turn very well. Constant turning can mess with a sticks rhythm, and thats exactly what I want to do. I want to take him out of his rhythm and hopefully cause him to hang up just a second to long. I'll tellya going into the TA, shooting at targets and other sticks training, has helped me an awful lot.
Another thing I do is when im climbing I practice switching from gun to gun, plane to plane. Its gotten so i can get snap shots off pretty well in the 3 bomber types I almost always fly. The 26s, of course, the 17s/24s, and the KI.
The KI-67 is a very dangerous bomber. I got caught landing it a few times so my stats probably suck with it, but for having such a high eny it is a very dangerous bomber to fly against. Its fast, climbs well, has good firepower, and is a great raid bomber for stuff like Dars, ords, troops, towns...ect Once you get the hang of that 20mm cannon it becomes very dangerous. That is one bomber you want to sit back a minute and figure things out before rushing in. It has its weak spots so patience against it will help a lot.
I would put it just a notch behind the 26s and 17s as far as defend-able bombers go. Thanks to all for a great conversation. .
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
The KI-67 is a very dangerous bomber.
Hehe, I vividly remember losing my 262 to your Ki-67's 20mm. I approached low from the side, trying to stay out of that 200mm gun arc. Also I was hoping you were in the bombsight as we were closing on my base.
But then the Ki suddenly banked towards me... and *BOOM* I go :D
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Originally posted by Lusche
Hehe, I vividly remember losing my 262 to your Ki-67's 20mm. I approached low from the side, trying to stay out of that 200mm gun arc. Also I was hoping you were in the bombsight as we were closing on my base.
But then the Ki suddenly banked towards me... and *BOOM* I go :D
:lol Thats one of my better tricks. Playing stupid! Actually I dont even have to try much as it comes out kinda natural.
Its also a very effective technique. A lot of times I wont do a thing, even twitch, wont even move a gun. I call it the "Bambi defense" in that you look so fat, pathetic, and helpless, a stick will come in poorly.
You were out of my cannon fire arc. The thing is I have been practicing rolling the aircraft and firing. I also got kinda lucky, lets face it. It was the single and only mistake Ive ever seen you make.
Boy Im hot tonight 5-0 good guys with 1 assist and haven't lost a bomber. This is about the time I run into an uber-stick and get splattered all over creation.
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Frankly, a buff's defensive capabilities are overrated. That being said, there are some very good players when it comes to defending their buffs. Just for grins I went back and looked at what I have done versus bombers in the current and prior 2 camps. My K/D versus bombers is about 11 to 1 (193 to 13). Invariably, when I die, it's because I got bored and ended up dead 6 holding the trigger down.
The only time I get bothered is when I'm facing 3 or more flying in close formation. Now THAT is fun!!!! :)
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My goal is to reach a 1 to 1 ratio, bomber kills of fighters to my own getting whacked. Im actually a lot closer to it now then what the game says. Take away the "goon deaths", the kilt while in the bathroom deaths, the lazy, the "dumb try to land at a frontline base right into an NOE mission" deaths, and the "just plain stupid" deaths, and hopefully I'll get there.
I take these 26s into some hairy furball action too. But...how else can you grow? Tonight Im 7 to 1, or 8 to 1, in my favor. Not a bad night. In some ways its safer to plow into a furball then it is go into a strat to face some uber-stick jumping into his rocket plane.
The worst is when you have 3 190s chasing you and it looks like only one player controlling all 3. :O That means you have some squadies there that eat Buffs for breakfast.:huh
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Very True, it takes alot of patience to attack buffs especally if u start out below them.
Key tips to remember
1. Be patient.
2. Dive from above especally if u dont have cannons
3. NEVER GET ON THEIR SIX!!!!
there are some more trade secrets that I use but everyone has their own style, but keeping those 3 key things in mind will ususally keep u alive.
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I wonder what 999 would have to say about this.
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Taking a formation of B17s into a furball on the deck is "hairy action". Taking a formation of B26s (the buff equivalent of the LA7) over a furball at 15K is not.
If you are getting 7 or 8 to 1, you are either a far better gunner than 999, or you are flying like a pansie. I am going to go with the latter.
And wth is this "uber sticks" crap? You're talking about which guys endure the snorefest of setting up a survivable attack on bombers. That has nothing to do with being uber, and more to do with "well, I've got an hour or 2 to kill, I'll setup an attack on this porkdork". As if attacking nonmaneuvering aircraft is a test of anything more than patience... eeesh.
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Sometimes i take the time to set up properly for an attack, but often im lazy and take a chanse at dead 6 attack. Gives us both a fighting chanse and doesnt take forever. Depends on my mood mostly. :)
That relaxed attitude has given me
B24: 17 - 0
Lanc: 11 - 0
ju88 9 - 0
B26 9 - 4 (dantoo? :D )
ki67 3 - 0
B17 3 - 0
Have flown very little this tour so i have few kills overall K/D 203/27
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
I wonder what 999 would have to say about this.
oh yeah forgot rule number 4
4. If its 999000 leave him alone, u will die;)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Taking a formation of B17s into a furball on the deck is "hairy action". Taking a formation of B26s (the buff equivalent of the LA7) over a furball at 15K is not.
If you are getting 7 or 8 to 1, you are either a far better gunner than 999, or you are flying like a pansie. I am going to go with the latter.
And wth is this "uber sticks" crap? You're talking about which guys endure the snorefest of setting up a survivable attack on bombers. That has nothing to do with being uber, and more to do with "well, I've got an hour or 2 to kill, I'll setup an attack on this porkdork". As if attacking nonmaneuvering aircraft is a test of anything more than patience... eeesh.
Thanks for your contribution sweetheart. Really, a pleasure meeting you. Lets do lunch some day.
This charm offensive of yours really must stop.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Sometimes i take the time to set up properly for an attack, but often im lazy and take a chanse at dead 6 attack. Gives us both a fighting chanse and doesnt take forever. Depends on my mood mostly. :)
That relaxed attitude has given me
B24: 17 - 0
Lanc: 11 - 0
ju88 9 - 0
B26 9 - 4 (dantoo? :D )
ki67 3 - 0
B17 3 - 0
Have flown very little this tour so i have few kills overall K/D 203/27
Thats pretty good shooting for being relaxed Nilsen. I'd hate to be around you when your serious.;) Remind me to stay on the other end of the map from you.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Thats pretty good shooting for being relaxed Nilsen. I'd hate to be around you when your serious.;) Remind me to stay on the other end of the map from you.
Thx, buts its not me... its the 30mm and engine in my G14/K4 that deserves the credit ;) Im just along for the ride
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Gamey bomber dweebs bragging about being gamey bomber dweebs!
:rofl
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Gamey bomber dweebs bragging about being gamey bomber dweebs!
:rofl
I guess he is having dinner with you
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I have killed B17s B24s and Lancs with as few as two 50 cal bullets. I actually prefer shooting them from nose to tail because it guarantees you get the kill but I imagine some gamers do it for what it does to gunnery score and perks somehow. I just dont care anymore.
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Looked out of curiosity (took no effort at all :) ). Some career stats...
Type/kills of - killed by
B-17G: 505 - 73 (6 years)
B-26B: 449 - 58 (also 6 years IIRC)
B-24J: 381 - 46
Lanc: 420 - 29
Ju-88: 252 - 16
Ki-67: 33 - 6
Bost: 65 - 0
Ar234: 17 - 0
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Originally posted by Murdr
Looked out of curiosity (took no effort at all :) ). Some career stats...
Type/kills of - killed by
B-17G: 505 - 73 (6 years)
B-26B: 449 - 58 (also 6 years IIRC)
B-24J: 381 - 46
Lanc: 420 - 29
Ju-88: 252 - 16
Ki-67: 33 - 6
Bost: 65 - 0
Ar234: 17 - 0
How do you do that?
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Originally posted by dedalos
How do you do that?
I don't know how Murdr did it, but I tracked all my stats (and lots more) manually for a long time using the score & stat pages. Later on augmented by Spatula's Aces High Pilot's Stats software. Currently I am doing that manually again, until Spatula has updated his tool to the new split score system.
That way I can tell that I have shot down exactly 5992 heavy buffs from tour 70 to tour 92 ;)
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I am being intentionally a bit criptic to avoid servers getting hammered, so please don't be "helpful".
A little application produced by one of the trainers. You might find it in any kitchen.
edit:hehe, typed too slow
edit: it is updated by the way
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A few weeks back, I saw a not-so-well-known buff dork get in a 234 and climb to what must have been 25K, and shoot down a B24. Now that was truly impressive. Doing that with a fighter against a much lower formation... not so much.
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Just HO them with 190a8 and then ram it works every time.
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Originally posted by Murdr
I am being intentionally a bit criptic to avoid servers getting hammered, so please don't be "helpful".
A little application produced by one of the trainers. You might find it in any kitchen.
edit:hehe, typed too slow
edit: it is updated by the way
You used bacon!!!! I knew it :furious
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
A few weeks back, I saw a not-so-well-known buff dork get in a 234 and climb to what must have been 25K, and shoot down a B24. Now that was truly impressive. Doing that with a fighter against a much lower formation... not so much.
Hubby when are we going to do that lunch buddy?
Strange how some of the cartoon fighter sticks in this game kinda look down on the cartoon bomber sticks. Why is that ya think? Should i start a thread, "which is more pansy'ish"? "Cartoon fighters or cartoon bombers"? What do you think Hubby? Dont hold it in whatever you do.:lol
Dorks, Dweebs, pansies???
We actually almost made two pages of adult, civil, non-judgemental, enjoyable conversation of tactics, and the game, before the "non-housebroken crowd" came in. Im impressed.:aok
And Im also out of the thread. I think I'll go practice my cartoon bombing skills so I can brag some more in another cartoon thread.:rofl
To the rest of you thank you for a great talk on bombers vs fighters. An aspect of the game that fascinates me, as that same aspect of WW-ll fascinates me. And to the rest?? Enjoy, play the game the way you want, and have fun. I'll certainly be the last to "judge" you on the way "you" play, or what you chose to fly. and seeya in the MA..........Rich
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I wish I could fly a formation of 190-A8's...3-5 would suffice...
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With the exception of the 262 my preferred method of bomber killing in any plane is from their high 6. OK, it can sometimes take time to get to position but that's a better trade off than climbing from the tower again:D
I try to do head shots mostly but I can be a little cocky if I realise their calibrating or in scope in which case I'll take the wing off. This buggers their aim up:aok
Did a quick tally of the last 3 TOD's + this TOD.
b17 killed 92 killed by 8
b24 235 - 27
b26100 - 17
ju88 56 - 3
ki67 24 - 1
Lanc 277 - 12
784 to 68..... that's 11.5 to just 1 of me.
With a very slight exception of a few good gunners and a mean a few. My deaths are due to buggering up the merge to be almost dead 6....not good. Or I collided with a drone. I can do that suprisingly well in a 262:(
Oh, when I'm in bombers theirs nothing better than a slow climbing con to my level 6...the fools :rofl
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Originally posted by LYNX
Or I collided with a drone.
Most of my deaths against bombers are due to that whacky drone shift crap!
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I absolutely cannot believe you guys hunt buffs in a 262.
There is no way I'm risking 100+ perks to attack something with laser guided guns like a buff.
Granted, I don't really the kill stats of y'all, so my perks are much leaner and further apart than you guys with 500 kills a tour.
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1330 bombers (includes goons and IL2s but not mosquitos) to 27. About 50:1
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Originally posted by Chalenge
1330 bombers (includes goons and IL2s but not mosquitos) to 27. About 50:1
noob
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A quick look at stats reveals that Rich gets something along the lines of 1 kill for every 2 to 3 hours of flight. That's some serious white-knuckle flying, and I presume it's given him a keen insight into who the best really are.
I apologize, rich, for my earlier comments.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
noob
Yes I am :aok Of course that implies your performance is WAY below the curve.
Way to bring that to everyones attention there stevebailey. :D
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
A quick look at stats reveals that Rich gets something along the lines of 1 kill for every 2 to 3 hours of flight. That's some serious white-knuckle flying, and I presume it's given him a keen insight into who the best really are.
I apologize, rich, for my earlier comments.
Even your apology is laced with sarcasm and insincerity so dont even bother. But listen sunshine, thanks for reminding me about this thread again cause I had forgotten to put you on my ignore list. Which I will now fix.
Ive read your posts pal. You dont really have a whole lot of good to say about anyone or anything do you? I can only guess at the issues involved with someone who would post somthing like that to a total stranger in another thread I had intended to be light hearted and friendly.
You can stick my stats in your ear. I never bragged, or made claims, and your only intent was to twist my words to make trouble. Your a miserable little man.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Your a miserable little man.
Has the title shifted from Storch to Hubs? Just curious. ;)
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Even your apology is laced with sarcasm and insincerity so dont even bother. But listen sunshine, thanks for reminding me about this thread again cause I had forgotten to put you on my ignore list. Which I will now fix.
Ive read your posts pal. You dont really have a whole lot of good to say about anyone or anything do you? I can only guess at the issues involved with someone who would post somthing like that to a total stranger in another thread I had intended to be light hearted and friendly.
You can stick my stats in your ear. I never bragged, or made claims, and your only intent was to twist my words to make trouble. Your a miserable little man.
Welcome to the doghouse Hub !!! Rich put me in there after he called me a 12 year old after I commented on how I love newbs and the "advice" they give after figuring this game out in a week. There's beer in the frig' and chips and salsa on the table.
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Originally posted by Chalenge
Of course that implies your performance is WAY below the curve.
Wrong zippy. Care to try again?
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Sorry, but if any of the better sticks started bragging about killing 7 or 8 guys per sortie, and really mixing it up in big fights with the best of the best, and talking about how much they're training, and how they're always learning something new, and it was then revealed that they flew for hours every single day, and were lucky to get 2 kills on a good day, someone would call their bluff as well.
If you think Sim and Lusche are good sticks, just say so- and leave out the page long accounts of your heroic and mostly contrived actions.
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:rofl