Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Yeager on October 17, 2007, 11:55:54 AM
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Bush is talking like a short timer again.......
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071017154505.rci3xjja&show_article=1
Sidebar: Makes me wonder why Puten is so enamored with defending Iranian nuclear capabilities? Its almost as if the russians think they can improve their status in a post nuclear war ravaged world........
If Iran test detonates a nulear warhead, which they would have to do to prove they had the capability, then the world would immediately be in a threat crises vastly more dangerous than the cuban missle crises of 1962.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Sidebar: Makes me wonder why Puten is so enamored with defending Iranian nuclear capabilities? Its almost as if the russians think they can improve their status in a post nuclear war ravaged world........
You are again misinformed. Russia is interested in non-military nuclear development in Iran. This is emphasized in every news program here. Putin said it himself.
Originally posted by Yeager
If Iran test detonates a nulear warhead, which they would have to do to prove they had the capability, then the world would immediately be in a threat crises vastly more dangerous than the cuban missle crises of 1962.
Do you know what will happen after Iran detonates a first nuclear device? Nothing. No one will give a flying ****.
Iran is one of the most "nuclear-safe" countries now. Especially compared to Pakistan. At least they got sane predictable leadership, unlike some other countries, they don't start stupid wars and don't host known terrorists giving them political asylum and government jobs in DoS.
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you seem to say on one hand that iran nuclear program is peacefull but you already seem to have your opinion preformed about what will happen after iranian warhead test.
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Originally posted by Boroda
You are again misinformed.
Iran is one of the most "nuclear-safe" countries now. .... At least they got sane predictable leadership, ...
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in a speech to thousands of people in the Iranian city of Zahedan, according to a report on Wednesday from Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting.
"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.
"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.
The comments of a sane leader:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Boroda
At least they got sane predictable leadership
sane, no
predictable, yes
Russia is just doing in Iran what the US is doing in India...trying to make some $$ or rubles or whatever.
That said, Iran with a nuclear bomb is scary...if you live in Israel.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Iran is one of the most "nuclear-safe" countries now. Especially compared to Pakistan. gAt least they got sane predictable leadership, unlike some other countries, they don't start stupid wars and don't host known terrorists giving them political asylum and government jobs in DoS.
Sane leader? :rolleyes: :lol
I think more than a couple of Russians lost their lives in the holocaust that a certain Iranian leader believes didn't happen????
But hey, who am I to tell you what to believe?
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Originally posted by Yeager
If Iran test detonates a nulear warhead, which they would have to do to prove they had the capability, then the world would immediately be in a threat crises vastly more dangerous than the cuban missle crises of 1962.
LOL You are walking and shooting in theyr backyard allready, isn't it already a dangerous threat?
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Originally posted by Boroda
Iran is one of the most "nuclear-safe" countries now. At least they got sane predictable leadership.
This is sig material..:)
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Im not worried about Iran going nuclear so much as I am what will happen after Israel lights them up in what will basically be an act of preemptive self defense.
When you KNOW someone is going to gun you down, you shoot them down first. Its one of the most simple truths in human relations.
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Nucular :D
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Originally posted by Yeager
Im not worried about Iran going nuclear so much as I am what will happen after Israel lights them up in what will basically be an act of preemptive self defense.
That's what I'm waiting for. Will Israel do it themselves or get someone to do their dirty work for them? I think France is looking to get rid of some ordinance.
If Israel does it alone it might upset all the relationships in the Mid East today.
We'll have to see who really has the gonads.
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Originally posted by MotorOil1
That's what I'm waiting for. Will Israel do it themselves or get someone to do their dirty work for them?
The Israelis have no beef with going to blow ***** up. They did it to Iraq's nuke plant in the 80's. They even flew some sorties into Iraq during Desert Storm after a Scud landed in downtown Tel Aviv, even after the US had begged them to stay out of it to preserve the 'coalition'. You saw what they did to Lebanon a couple of years ago because of the constant rocket assaults over the border. The Israeli's don't get other to do their dirty work, they are well equiped and willing to handle it all on their own.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Bush is talking like a short timer again.......
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071017154505.rci3xjja&show_article=1
Sidebar: Makes me wonder why Puten is so enamored with defending Iranian nuclear capabilities? Its almost as if the russians think they can improve their status in a post nuclear war ravaged world........
If Iran test detonates a nulear warhead, which they would have to do to prove they had the capability, then the world would immediately be in a threat crises vastly more dangerous than the cuban missle crises of 1962.
No soon as Iran tests a nuke, Bush and co will suddenly decide that it's ok to negotiate with another Rogue Nation.
Remember when Bush walked away from the talks with North Korea, claiming "we don't make deals with terrorist nations"? Now suddenly it's ok that we make deals with that Terrorist Nation, as soon as they aquired the bomb.
Bush and co, talk the talk but they never walk the walk. Soon as Iran tests a nuke it will be negations time for them too.
Bush and co, has done nothing but "emboldened the enemy" by showing them that once they acquire nuclear weapons, we will no longer threaten them and we "will" at that point make deals with them.
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Originally posted by Boroda
You are again misinformed. Russia is interested in non-military nuclear development in Iran. This is emphasized in every news program here. Putin said it himself.
That is like saying it’s ok to sell mass quantities of fertilizer to a known terrorist/bomb maker because he wants to use it in his garden.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The comments of a sane leader:rolleyes:
Read Babek's posts in other threads.
Look, you quote wrongly-translated speeches of Iranian president, not their leader, in a thread where I already made a comment saying that you guys are misinformed about Russian policy. I see Russian news and I hear Putin speaking. Trying to persuade Iran to allow all possible international inspections to prove they are not developing nuclear weapons, as a condition to continue cooperation - I bet you didn't hear it in the news.
My main point is that your media lies to you. I have already read too much bull**** about Putin's visit to Iran here.
Did anyone mention a real reason for the meeting in Tehran? It doesn't have anything to do with the US interests, and nuclear program is only a minor topic there.
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Originally posted by Jappa52
That is like saying it’s ok to sell mass quantities of fertilizer to a known terrorist/bomb maker because he wants to use it in his garden.
Depends on fertilizer.
Russia declared that we will supply nuclear materials to Iran only if they will return it after use for refurbishing.
I understand the hype in the West: Germans and French started nuclear contracts with Iran back in the 70s and now barbaric evil Russians are going to make some profit.
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crockett. I would be seriously suprised if Iran could construct any sort of nuclear bomb, and test it, before Bush leaves office. Hard to say who will be president by then......but not to worry, according to boroda, Iran is interested only in peaceful atomic energy and has no interest in building a nookular weapons arsenal.
just for shyts and gigglz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty
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Originally posted by Yeager
Sidebar: Makes me wonder why Puten is so enamored with defending Iranian nuclear capabilities?
$
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Originally posted by Yeager
crockett. I would be seriously suprised if Iran could construct any sort of nuclear bomb, and test it, before Bush leaves office. Hard to say who will be president by then......but not to worry, according to boroda, Iran is interested only in peaceful atomic energy and has no interest in building a nookular weapons arsenal.
They badly need electricity, just look at their metallurgical industry growth. Bomb is a good option, but not as vital now as power stations.
I think Iran will be a next world industrial center in 20-30 years.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Look, you quote wrongly-translated speeches of Iranian president, not their leader, in a thread where I already made a comment saying that you guys are misinformed about Russian policy.
I quoted the leader of the Iranian government.
My main point is that your media lies to you.
The quote came from china news. PR of China.
Khameni is supreme leader but Ahmadinejad, as President, is the leader of the Iranian Government.
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Originally posted by soda72
$
Bingo
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Originally posted by Tiger
The Israelis have no beef with going to blow ***** up. They did it to Iraq's nuke plant in the 80's. They even flew some sorties into Iraq during Desert Storm after a Scud landed in downtown Tel Aviv, even after the US had begged them to stay out of it to preserve the 'coalition'. You saw what they did to Lebanon a couple of years ago because of the constant rocket assaults over the border. The Israeli's don't get other to do their dirty work, they are well equiped and willing to handle it all on their own.
I agree fully. I think it's another situation as in 1991. It would be better for mid east politics if someone else were to blame for attacking Iran.
If you get my meaning.
If no one will jump to the pump, Isael will do what it takes to defend themselves.
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Originally posted by Boroda
I think Iran will be a next world industrial center in 20-30 years.
And you base this prediction on what?
When was the last time any nation in that region, besides Israel, created any substantial indigenous industry, made any serious innovations, or founded any major portion of their economy on anything besides sales?
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Iran blah blah blah, maybe it's time to leave the people in the mid-east alone, epically Iran. Better yet, our .gov should man up and admit to its abhorrent behavior towards the people of Iran in the past, that would go a long way in their culture and they just might become our friends.
One reason Iran hate & distrusts us is because we, "the land of the free" overthrew their democratically elected .gov, denying them a democratic future... funny that Bush et al need a war today, to re-create what we ruined: democracy in the mid-east.
"While the shah sat on the throne as a mere shadow, Muhammad Mossadeq basked in the acclaim of the vast majority of Iranians, who for the first time in decades gave their genuine respect, devotion, and loyalty to their recognized leader." - Sandra Mackey’s great book; "The Iranians"
So what did the US do to this popular leader?, a dude they rallied behind and revered?: overthrew him. He posed no threat to the US, wasn't a tyrant or war monger.
The excuse dejour back then was Iran would fall to the evils of communism, todays manufactured evil is "terrorism", or is it "Nukes"?? I forget... Truth is was all about Mossadeq taking charge of his countries oil from the Brits / US.. how dare a sovereign nation take control of their resources!! coup time!!
We supported Saddam & helped him gas / wage war against the Iranians because our feelings were hurt that they kicked us out, and the nerve of these people at being bitter the USA of A played with their country like a piece on a chess board.
Operation Ajax
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1021997,00.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/latulippe/latulippe41.html
"For many Iranians, the coup was a tragedy from which their country has never recovered. Perhaps because Mossadegh represents a future denied, his memory has approached myth."
The CIA & Brits, used what todays is called "terrorism", lawmakers were bribed, harassed and assassinated, journalists jailed and decent was met with a US backed kick in the balls with over 300 dead in bombings and other random acts of CIA bought & paid for violence.
Is this the way America should act? is this seriously what the red white and blue stands for? no, but its the way republicans & democrats act... so ask yourself if these people really hate "America", or just hate what our leaders have done. Then try to remember that next time you vote.
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Originally posted by Neubob
And you base this prediction on what?
When was the last time any nation in that region, besides Israel, created any substantial indigenous industry, made any serious innovations, or founded any major portion of their economy on anything besides sales?
I'll say 1000 years ago ;) j/k, but every joke is more then a joke...
Same thing could be said about South-East Asia and China just 20 years ago. Plus Israel gets sponsored by the US, I hope you know it.
I just see some reports and observations from acquaintances and friends visiting Iran. They grow at enormous rate. They but best specialists. 75% of their population is younger then 25 years, and they study not only Koran.
Anyway, such predictions are worth nothing, so I can afford it :)
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Boroda mentioned many things - so I just want to point at some other things:
Does Iran need nuclear energy?
Yes. Its natural resources are limited. In the days of the Shah this problem was seen and the nuclear devices planned. The Busheer reactor was started by Germany. Then the revolution came to end the terror regime of the Shah and the work on the reactor stopped.
Today Iran has a fast developing industry. For example Iran is producing civilian aircrafts, helicopters automobiles. Iran Khodro is the world wide nr. 20 of producing cars company. (By the way: With the help of France and Peugeot). 1 million cars are produced every year.
Iran needs an energy source and nuclear energy is a good solution. The embargo has not stopped Iran. Like in many other sectors of iranian industry the embargo had an opposide effect: It forced the iranians to produce things by themself, to make themself independent from froeigners who deliver spare parts.
Thats also the reason why iran wants an energy source which they control completely and without being dependent from foreigners.
I think that this is correct.
Now the US president, who face the desaster in Iraq, tells again some strange thing about the dangerous Iran and World war III and so on.
On the same time it is accepted that the USA dont interfere, when Saudi Arabia supports the Al Kaida with money or Pakistan (with an instable and corrupt junta and nuclear weapons) is a supporter of the Taliban.
It is ignored that Libya, which is ruled by a criminal dictator who gave once the order to blow up the TWA-plane over Lockerby, will now receive nuclear reactors and modern weapons. Like Saddam once Ghaddafi is today the "good" Frankenstein. Do you really belive that this man is trustworthy?
It is completely ignored that Iran was sending its solidarity to the relatives of the victims at 9/11. In contrary there are strange reports that Iran was responsible of the 9/11-terrorism. A ridiculus statement, considering the fact that iran always fought against the Taliban and sunnite terror groups like Al Kaida.
Now the propaganda machine build up the strange picture that Iran is a new Nazi Empire, ready to start WWIII and sending nuclear missiles. So a missile shield is needed to protect Poland and Europe against iranian missiles.
Really ridiculous.
Iran has not started wars in the last centuries. It will develop itself to a regional power at the persian gulf - also because of Mr. Bush´s operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Both regimes there were enemies of Iran and with the Saddam regime in Bagdad and the Taliban regime in Kabul left, Iran has now much more influence and better relations to these neighbors.
The embargos also didnt work and they will never work, because there is no world community which wants to isolate Iran. Instead there are friendly nations like Russia and China, who are officially cooperating with iran and its industry and also many countries which are working inofficially with Iran. Like France which is on the one hand telling that there must be embargos against Iran and on the other hand cooperating with Iran like Peugeout in the civilian sector or also in the military sector: Last month 3 libyan planes arrived in Teheran, delivering spare parts for the 24 Mirage fighters which are now fling in the IRIAF.
So much about the effectivity of embargos and so on.
While Mr. Putin and other leaders take the chance to gain from the relationship and friendship with Iran Mr. Bush is just helping the radical groups in Iran by threatening the country. By doing so he avoids innerpolitical fightings in Iran. Facing a threat by foreigners always had the result that the iranians supported the actual regime.
So its (again) a stupid political move of Mr. Bush. On the other hand it was not a surprise. Only a sad fact that Mr. Bush is not able to learn from the devestating mistakes he made in Iraq.
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Originally posted by babek-
Iran has not started wars in the last centuries.
Since it was pretty much under the power of Colonial powers from 1800 to 1925 and then under the pro western Palavi dynasyty to 1979, your statement is fairly safe.
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If it wasn't for the fact that Iran (Actually, a few nutburger leaders) keeps threatening to erase Israel from the map, keeps STONING people to death (including minors)for misdemeanors, keeps providing weapons to terrorists like Hezbolla, or Sadr's punks, people might think of them in a better light.
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Originally posted by Boroda
You are again misinformed. Russia is interested in non-military nuclear development in Iran. This is emphasized in every news program here. Putin said it himself.
Do you know what will happen after Iran detonates a first nuclear device? Nothing. No one will give a flying ****.
Iran is one of the most "nuclear-safe" countries now. Especially compared to Pakistan. At least they got sane predictable leadership, unlike some other countries, they don't start stupid wars and don't host known terrorists giving them political asylum and government jobs in DoS.
C'mon man.
You cant possibly expect us to beleive all that is the vodka talking.
Whatcha smoking?
And why you holding out on the rest of us? :lol
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Since it was pretty much under the power of Colonial powers from 1800 to 1925 and then under the pro western Palavi dynasyty to 1979, your statement is fairly safe.
Iran was never a colony like the newly created arab countries. It was ruled in the last 100 years by the Shahs of the Quadshar-dynasty, then of the Pahlevi-dynasty and then by the mullahs.
It tried to keep out of wars of the european nations. In WW1 Iran declared itself neutral, but that neutrality was ignored by the Ottoman Empire and Russian Empire who used Northwest Iran for their wars, devastating the area.
In WW2 Iran also declared its neutrality but was occupied and forced to join the Allies.
After WW2 it never started a war.
So - unlike countries who dont hesitate to start wars without thinking about the consequences - Iran has indeed not started wars for the last 100 years.
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Originally posted by bj229r
If it wasn't for the fact that Iran (Actually, a few nutburger leaders) keeps threatening to erase Israel from the map, keeps STONING people to death (including minors)for misdemeanors, keeps providing weapons to terrorists like Hezbolla, or Sadr's punks, people might think of them in a better light.
You know that the USA supports the MEK-terrorists in Iraq?
A terrorist group which is on the one hand defined as terrorists by the USA, because they killed US citizen in the past and also killed and tortured iraqi kurdish and iranian civilians?
On the other hand they are allowed to have a military base in Iraq and are protected by US soldiers against the iraqis who would like to take revenge against their torturers.
So its easy to blame Iran for supporting terrorists but it should not be ignored that the USA do exactly the same.
About the stoning and so on, Iran has these problems, yes, but in a much lower number than US allies and friends like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
Not that this make it better, but why not blaming these countries ?
And about weapons for iraqi civil-war-fighters: Saudi Arabia supports the sunnite arab terrorists with enough money to buy weapons. The US occupation forces "lost" tenthousands of weapons which are now in the civil war groups hands. But all the propaganda is reporting are weapons made in Iran.
Face the fact that there is a civil war in Iraq and the sunnite arab countries
support the sunnite faction including the sunnite Al Kaida while the shi ite Iran is supporting the shi ite factions.
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Its very naief to think its safe that a a country that denies the holocaust being able to develop a nuclear weapon.
Im also am tired of this Poutin bringin the peace of our times from iraq.
Its time for russia to do something positive for the world instead of hanging out the big guy and shouting at everything.
Actualy russia became one of the worst capitalist countrys of the world.
The AK-47 is the big proof of it.
:rolleyes:
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After WW2 it never started a war
they only sended thousends of kids with a key around their neck over some mine fields.
But anyway the state after the sjah is young so the chance is big they gonna make a mistake and start or provoke a war.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
they only sended thousends of kids with a key around their neck over some mine fields.
But anyway the state after the sjah is young so the chance is big they gonna make a mistake and start or provoke a war.
Sorry to say this, but you know nothing about iranian history.
So "They" sent kids in the minefield.
Do you know the circumstances of these years and what happened in Iran?
Iran was attacked by an invasion force of arabs of Saddam.
Saddam thought that he could get an advantage because Iran was weakened after the revolution. Most of the high ranking imperial officers have fled Iran or were executed or were in prison facing execution (like one of my uncles).
The army, once one of the best armies in the region, was in an extreme bad shape.
Saddam didnt wanted to conquer whole Iran. His target was the SW-iranian province Khusistan. The arabs call this province "Arabistan", because the arab minority of the iranians live in this province. So Saddam expected an arab solidarity when he came like a arab liberator.
The iranian army was in full retreat. But the iranian arabs also fled or resist instead of cooperating with their arab borthers from iraq.
Saddam was so angry about this "treason" that he ordered that every town in the conquered area has to be razed.
Like the Nazis in the occupied eastern territory one iranian town after the other was destroyed. But in the wetsern media in these days Saddam was shown as the good guy and the Iranians as the monsters.
Facing this massacre the iranians build special troops to support thje reorganizing regular army. One of these troops was the Pasdaran guard, which operated as a fanatical storm troop. Another was the Basidj - a badly trained force made of yioungsters who were highly motivated.
There is a region in the Khuzistan province where hundreds of iraqi tanks were destroyed. This defeat of Saddams attack force was the start of the end of iraqi occupation forces in Iran. For every of these tank 6-8 Basidji had to sacrifice themself.
You can make fun of these "kids with keys around their necks" but in these days Iran had no other choice than to use this method to defend itself.
The whole world was watching when the arabs of Iraq were destroying the iranian towns in the occupied zone and killed the civilians.
Also the so called civilized world even accepted that 150000 iranian soldiers and iraqi civilians were killed by gas weapons.
The iranians managed to kick out the arab invasion force from iranian territory.
Despite embargos.
Despite Saddams gas weapons.
Despite the massive weapon help for Saddam.
But Iran had to pay a high price for this. The youngsters who marched through the minefields or who stormed ill-equipped against enemy tanks and iraqi defense posts died in ten thousands.
But they were true patriots and not hiding like cowards in national guard units while the nation had to fight a bitter war against an enemy.
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________
quote:"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in a speech to thousands of people in the Iranian city of Zahedan, according to a report on Wednesday from Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting.
________
quote:
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.
________
The comments of a sane leaderOriginally posted by Holden McGroin
The comments of a sane leader:rolleyes:
Actually I have to believe the above quotes are out of context in our propaganda campaign against Iran (since Bush labeling Iran as part of the "Axis of Evil").
Iran is a non-Arab nation comprising mainly a Shia-faith based population.
They have a long history of nonaggression with their neighbors despite being surrounded by their traditional enemies. They are no threat to us or to any country in the region.
Here's an article that addresses both of the above quotes:
Israel to be wiped off the map? (http://www.arbeiterfotografie.com/galerie/kein-krieg/hintergrund/index-iran-0013.html)
Aug 8, 2006, from an article from IRNA (Iran's official news agency). Consider how this differs from the 'saber rattling nature of Iran's President's "quotes" we see in our press:
Diplomat calls for removal of weapons of mass destruction (http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0608081804095315.htm)
Iraq's invasion for democracy? Hardly. It's all about money. Always has, always will be. The Great Deception (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug06/Bakhtiar07.htm)
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Originally posted by babek-
Sorry to say this, but you know nothing about iranian history.
So "They" sent kids in the minefield.
Do you know the circumstances of these years and what happened in Iran?...................
You deftly ignored his point---quite in the tradition of Boroda prattling on about the Soviet Union's glory days. Damn, trying to SAVE children and women is USUALLY a major objective of one side or the other---they convinced these poor kids they would find eternal peace if they would JUST walk across that minefield, a country which would do that doesn't deserve saving
During the Iran-Iraq War, the Ayatollah Khomeini imported 500,000 small plastic keys from Taiwan. The trinkets were meant to be inspirational. After Iraq invaded in September 1980, it had quickly become clear that Iran's forces were no match for Saddam Hussein's professional, well-armed military. To compensate for their disadvantage, Khomeini sent Iranian children, some as young as twelve years old, to the front lines. There, they marched in formation across minefields toward the enemy, clearing a path with their bodies. Before every mission, one of the Taiwanese keys would be hung around each child's neck. It was supposed to open the gates to paradise for them.
At one point, however, the earthly gore became a matter of concern. "In the past," wrote the semi-official Iranian daily Ettelaat as the war raged on, "we had child-volunteers: 14-, 15-, and 16-year-olds. They went into the minefields. Their eyes saw nothing. Their ears heard nothing. And then, a few moments later, one saw clouds of dust. When the dust had settled again, there was nothing more to be seen of them. Somewhere, widely scattered in the landscape, there lay scraps of burnt flesh and pieces of bone." Such scenes would henceforth be avoided, Ettelaat assured its readers. "Before entering the minefields, the children [now] wrap themselves in blankets and they roll on the ground, so that their body parts stay together after the explosion of the mines and one can carry them to the graves."
These children who rolled to their deaths were part of the Basiji, a mass movement created by Khomeini in 1979 and militarized after the war started in order to supplement his beleaguered army.The Basij Mostazafan--or "mobilization of the oppressed"--was essentially a volunteer militia, most of whose members were not yet 18. They went enthusiastically, and by the thousands, to their own destruction. "The young men cleared the mines with their own bodies," one veteran of the Iran-Iraq War recalled in 2002 to the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine. "It was sometimes like a race. Even without the commander's orders, everyone wanted to be first."
link (http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060424&s=kuntzel042406)
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Actually I have to believe the above quotes are out of context in our propaganda campaign against Iran ...
How refreshing to hear such a voice of reason from an American poster. :)
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Originally posted by bj229r
Damn, trying to SAVE children and women is USUALLY a major objective of one side or the other---they convinced these poor kids they would find eternal peace if they would JUST walk across that minefield
Again you miss the situation of the time, when Saddam tried to invade Iran.
The "civilized world" supported Saddam and his invasion forces.
The iraqis were destroying the iranian towns sytematicly in their occupation zone. They were killing the iranian people who they considered traitors to the arab cause. Including the children.
And the world just watched and accepted it, because Iran was the bad guy and Saddam a good friend of the "civilized world".
On the one hand you blame Iran because they used all forces to fight Saddams invasion troops, including youngsters, and on the other hand I see no regret about the fact that the Saddam-creature, which was supported also by the USA, was killing thousands iranian children in the iraqi occupation zone or throwing gas wepons on the iraqi kurdish children.
Maybe I should search some links for you, decribing the suffering of the children in Halabja, who died by Saddams gas attack.
Or some links of mass executions of civilians - including children - by iraqi troops in the occupied territory.
Irans army had to reorganize in the middle of a war and a sneak attack of the arabs. In these days every volunteer was mobilized. And its not important if the keys which the Basidji carried were made in Taiwan and were of plastic or whatever. These were symbols like medals.
These were indeed bitter days for iranians who suffered greatly in their wave attacks against the Saddam invaders. But finally the kicked the iraqis out of Iran - despite all the massive official and inofficial support Saddam got in those years by "civilized" nation.
You compared the text with the one of Boroda - and in one thing I agree. The soviets could and should be proud that they once kicked out the nazi invasion army, also fighting with wave attacks and much suffering. But they were succesful to protect their proud nation against Hitler, who defined them as subhumans and wanted to kill them and steal their land. Very much like Iran did against Saddam who defined the non arab iranians as subhumans and wanted to steal iranian land.
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Babek.. I am sure that they are the reasonable peaceful people that you claim... it is just that we have had such bad luck with arabs..
There was even one country that captured by force out entire embassy and marched the US citizens down the street in blindfolds while the animals of that country cheered and jeered... They kept em under horrible conditions for a year....what the hell was that country again? sure don't want those ones to have nukes...
and russia... when has russia giving nuke material to a country every worked out as a good thing?
so yeah...you may be russian and iranian but... from what I have seen of both...
lazs
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If we do it, we should do it completely. No more restraint. End the Iranian problem once and for all time, and end that puten fool too! that little judo chopping kGb weasle!
:aok
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Originally posted by lazs2
Babek.. I am sure that they are the reasonable peaceful people that you claim... it is just that we have had such bad luck with arabs..
lazs
didn't you hear xmarines wife? It is all Americas fault
LOL LOL LOL
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oswald was a xmarine too :O
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Originally posted by babek-
Iran was never a colony like the newly created arab countries. It was ruled in the last 100 years by the Shahs of the Quadshar-dynasty, then of the Pahlevi-dynasty and then by the mullahs.
I never said it was a colony, I said it was under control of colonial powers.
With Russia on its northern border and British controlled India / Afganistan on its southeastern border it was a natural collision point for two empires.
Check out Herat in the 1830's.
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Originally posted by lazs2
and russia... when has russia giving nuke material to a country every worked out as a good thing?
Currently the US are the biggest buyer of Russian fission materials.
You guys as usual trying to illustrate a book called "Propaganda for dummies: how it works".
Everyone should quit using nuclear power stations just because someone in the US is afraid of electricity. And electricity should be banned to: it may be used in producing the weapons of mass destruction. Also we should ban wheel and fire, and restrict it to North America only.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I never said it was a colony, I said it was under control of colonial powers.
With Russia on its northern border and British controlled India / Afganistan on its southeastern border it was a natural collision point for two empires.
Check out Herat in the 1830's.
Herat is in Afghanistan.
Afghanistan - British controlled?! Damn, in XIX century they lost more troops in one battle there then USSR did in 10 years!
Persia always had independent foreign policy, at least before WWI.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Currently the US are the biggest buyer of Russian fission materials.
do you know why that is? It's because your country is so poor it can not afford to dismantle it's nuke bombs according to the disarmament treaty, so the US agreed to "buy' the bombs and dismantle them.
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now now john....dont go stomping on soviet pride! wouldn't want another arms race, now would we:aok
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Originally posted by john9001
do you know why that is? It's because your country is so poor it can not afford to dismantle it's nuke bombs according to the disarmament treaty, so the US agreed to "buy' the bombs and dismantle them.
Where did you get this sensational information?! Please, share a source of your wisdom! :D
Our leadership is a gang of bloody collaborators, especially the previous regime, but even Yeltsyn didn't sell bombs to anyone. They only sold about 800 tons of weapon-grade plutonium for the price of lead.
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boroda.. I believe we are buying the stuff from you so that you don't sell it to the next guy who comes up with a buck.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
boroda.. I believe we are buying the stuff from you so that you don't sell it to the next guy who comes up with a buck.
It's easier then that.
Comrade Gore had good personal relations with mr. Chernomyrdin. So they solved it like paying 10% of the price for weapon-grade material, and Chernomyrdin, Yeltsin and family got a little bit more rich. Everyone's happy.
BTW, why Russia signed contract with Australians to buy their raw uranium wholesale, not the US? The truth is that you guys don't care about terrorism or "democracy", but you know quite well where you can earn some bucks.
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boroda, you are quite dillusional :D
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Originally posted by Boroda
You are again misinformed. Russia is interested in non-military nuclear development in Iran. This is emphasized in every news program here. Putin said it himself.
We're misinformed? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by babek-
So - unlike countries who dont hesitate to start wars without thinking about the consequences - Iran has indeed not started wars for the last 100 years.
Iran just sends rifles, RPG's, ammo to Al Queda. I cannot wait for the "demonstration of the Superior Missile Defense curtain". My money is NOT on Iran.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
We're misinformed? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
You are.
Again selected quotes, out of context. Putin insisted that Iran will get Russian fission materials ONLY if they'll be sent back for recycling. I don't know what your media feeds you - but here it's well-known even to the most hardcore liberastic collaborators.
Are you going to argue again? Putin SAID it in Tehran.
And you still have no idea what was the purpose of that meeting in Tehran. Definitely not Iranian power stations. We have more serious problems to discuss, and it's not your bloody business.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Iran just sends rifles, RPG's, ammo to Al Queda. I cannot wait for the "demonstration of the Superior Missile Defense curtain". My money is NOT on Iran.
Well, with you here - we'll have tons of fun! :D
US and UK send weapons, equipment and Moslim propaganda literature to Nothern Caucasus including Chechnya. Both of this countries host Chechen terrorist leaders. These are FACTS.
Now tell us please where did you hear about Iran supporting Sunni terrorists? Not "everyone knows", sources please, and I'd prefer something other then tabloids.
What you said above is as absurd as USSR sending supplies to Pol Pot.
Just one last question: is it true that you serve in the police?
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Originally posted by bj229r
If it wasn't for the fact that Iran (Actually, a few nutburger leaders) keeps threatening to erase Israel from the map,
Which "leaders" where they? and when did they "keep" threatening anyone?
The whole "wipe Israel off the map" this was a misquote from ONE speech in 2005, "World Without Zionism".
The actual translation:
"The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)"
The "wipe off the map" quote is nothing more than an often repeated poor translation. Ask anyone who speaks Persian to translate Ahmadinejads speech, or try the magic of Google.
Besides that, Ahmadinejad isn't a "commander'n chief" president.. even if he really wanted too, he couldn't order the military to wipe their asses, much less Israel off the map.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Well, with you here - we'll have tons of fun! :D
US and UK send weapons, equipment and Moslim propaganda literature to Nothern Caucasus including Chechnya. Both of this countries host Chechen terrorist leaders. These are FACTS.
Now tell us please where did you hear about Iran supporting Sunni terrorists? Not "everyone knows", sources please, and I'd prefer something other then tabloids.
What you said above is as absurd as USSR sending supplies to Pol Pot.
Just one last question: is it true that you serve in the police?
Let's see, 95% of the Rifles being used by the Terrorist supporters in Iraq are AK's, SKS's, & PKM's. Not to mention the IED's that have already been traced back to Iran.
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After the defeat of Saddams army many x-soldiers took their weapons with them or threw them away. In the first weeks you could see piles of AK-47 on the streets of Bagdad. And nearly every iraqi has at least one gun. Have you seen the pictures, when the soccer team of iraq had won the Asian Championship. Everywhere Iraquis in Bagdad, a AK in their hand and firing in the air.
These weapons were not from Iran.
Saddams Iraq got so many weapons from his allies of the "civilized world" during the 8 years of Iran-Iraq War that this country now has enough weapons. They simply are not dependant of iranian weapon deliveries.
Also there were too few occupation forces in Iraq to prevent that many weapons of the former Saddam army were stolen from the arsenals.
Iran produces weapons like the german G3 or the Heckler and Koch MP and also russian types of weapons.
I am also sure that Iran also helps the shi ites in iraq - like Saudi Arabia helps the sunnites in Iraq.
But to think that Iran would help the sunnite enemy - especially the sunnite Al Kaida is ridiculous.
Iran always fought against the sunnite terrorists of Al Kaida and the Talibans.
In east Iran, in the province of Belutshistan the Al Kaida is fighting against iranian troops a guerilla war.
In the west province of Khusistan Al Kaida performs bomb attacks against civilian targets.
When Al Kaida made its 9/11 terror act against the WTC Iran was shocked and angry. There were demonstrations in many iranian cities against this act of terrorism. But also this was not mentioned in western media.
Its easier to think that Iran celebrated this terror act in a big pool party with Osama and his Al Kaida creatures.
The Al Kaida leaders in Iraq define the shi ites as subhumans and bomb especially shi ite targets like mosques and civilians. Check some speaches of the Al Kaida leader Al-Sarkawi (who has been eliminated meanwhile) about the shi ites. Its like reading speaches of Hitler or Himmler about the Jews. He defined them as subhumans who have to be exterminated.
The idea that Iran would equip these sunnite forces is only a propaganda gag of some western media.
But Iran is one of the strongest enemies of Al Kaida and the Taliban.
Long before 9/11, when the Taliban were supported by US-allies, like Pakistan or Saudi-Arabia, Iran was supporting the Northern Alliance - the civil war enemy of Al Kaida.
When the Al Kaida tried to destabilize the former soviet republic of Tadjikistan Iran helped the tadjik (I hopr the spelling is correct) government to win against the sunnite terrorists.
But sure - such things are never mentioned in western media.
Instead you get reports that iran is delivering weapons to Al Kaida and surely it was an iranian iceberg which sunk the Titanic :rolleyes:
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Ya'll making this way more complicated than it is. One question and we know the answer to this.
Which country has the biggest investment in Iran?
It's all about the dollars today.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Let's see, 95% of the Rifles being used by the Terrorist supporters in Iraq are AK's, SKS's, & PKM's. Not to mention the IED's that have already been traced back to Iran.
You just named most reliable and low-maintenance firearms available. Just try to think why even a Chinese or Romanian AKM is better then M-16.
Plus this guys know how to use it. I still can disassemble and assemble an AK, last time I trained was in high school. Even our girls could do it.
IED's = ? Improvised explosive devices? All we got in Chechnya can be traced to terrorist training camps in NATO countries, that's what I know for sure. NATO countries maintain terrorist hospitals and training facilities, while Iran helps us catching Chechen gangsters. So who is our friend and who just screams about war on terror?
Look, in 1999 they found over 20 Stinger missiles in Chechnya. Now that's an evidence, not just people using cheap popular firearms made in China or Socialist Romania.
...I just wonder why do I even bother arguing with you?...
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watch out boroda, after NATO invades Iran they are coming for russia. Remember the mongols? NATO will make the mongols look like little girls, you will be forced to work for a living and drive a car and have a telephone and a TV and live in a nice house.
And no lines at the fully stocked stores.
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Originally posted by Boroda
You just named most reliable and low-maintenance firearms available. Just try to think why even a Chinese or Romanian AKM is better then M-16.
Killing with "Efficiency". Glad you said it, and not me. Truly something to be proud of.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Which "leaders" where they? and when did they "keep" threatening anyone?
The whole "wipe Israel off the map" this was a misquote from ONE speech in 2005, "World Without Zionism".
The actual translation:
"The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)"
The "wipe off the map" quote is nothing more than an often repeated poor translation. Ask anyone who speaks Persian to translate Ahmadinejads speech, or try the magic of Google.
Besides that, Ahmadinejad isn't a "commander'n chief" president.. even if he really wanted too, he couldn't order the military to wipe their asses, much less Israel off the map.
Hmmm
link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/03/AR2006080300629.html)
Ahmadinejad: Destroy Israel, End Crisis
By SEAN YOONG
The Associated Press
Thursday, August 3, 2006; 10:49 AM
PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel. In a speech during an emergency meeting of Muslim leaders, Ahmadinejad also called for an immediate halt to fighting in Lebanon between Israel and the Iranian-backed militant group Hezbollah.
"Although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented," he said.
Ahmadinejad, who has drawn international condemnation with previous calls for Israel to be wiped off the map, said the Middle East would be better off "without the existence of the Zionist regime."
Israel "is an illegitimate regime, there is no legal basis for its existence," he said.
link (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48790)
Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today echoed his earlier threats to "wipe Israel off the map" by telling a mass demonstration in Tehran, commemorating the 27th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, that Palestinians and "other nations" will remove Israel from the region, adding a warning to the West that harsh measures against the nation's nuclear program would result in Iran walking away from the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT).
"The policy of Iran has so far been pursuing nuclear technology within the framework of the NPT and IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency)," he said. "If we see you (the West) want to violate the right of the Iranian people by using those regulations (against us), you should know that the Iranian people will revise its policies. You should do nothing that will lead to such a revision in our policy," said Ahmadinejad.
The crowd, numbered in the hundreds of thousands accoding to state media, responded to Ahmadinejad's defense of its nuclear program – believed by U.S. intelligence to be an effort to acquire atomic weapons – with cries of "Nuclear energy is our undisputable right," "Death to America," "Death of Israel," "Death to Denmark."
link (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,277448,00.html)
TEHRAN, Iran — Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Sunday said the world would witness the destruction of Israel soon, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported.
Ahmadinejad said last summer's war between Israel and Hezbollah showed for the first time that the "hegemony of the occupier regime [Israel] had collapsed, and the Lebanese nation pushed the button to begin counting the days until the destruction of the Zionist regime," IRNA quoted him as saying.
"God willing, in the near future we will witness the destruction of the corrupt occupier regime," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying during a speech to foreign guests who attended ceremonies marking the 18th anniversary of the death of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who is known as the father of Iran's 1979 Islamic Revolution.
Guy sure gets misquoted alot:rofl
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Originally posted by Boroda
Herat is in Afghanistan.
Afghanistan - British controlled?! Damn, in XIX century they lost more troops in one battle there then USSR did in 10 years!
Persia always had independent foreign policy, at least before WWI.
You know, you should do a little investigation before you post.
In 1803, Iran went to war against Russia during the Russo-Persian War. The Persians went to war because Russia was expanding from the north into the Caucasus Mountains. This marked the first major economic and military encroachments on Iranian interests during the colonial era.
Iran suffered major military defeats during the war. Under the terms of the Treaty of Gulistan in 1813, Iran recognized Russia's annexation of Georgia and ceded to Russia most of the north Caucasus region.
The Russo-Persian War of the late 1820s ended even more disastrously for Iran. In 1828, Iran was forced to sign the Treaty of Turkmenchay acknowledging Russian sovereignty over the entire South Caucasus, the area north of the Aras River.
Fath Ali Shah's reign saw increased diplomatic contacts with the West and the beginning of intense European diplomatic rivalries over Iran. His grandson Mohammad Shah, who fell under the influence of Russia and made two unsuccessful attempts to capture Herat, succeeded him in 1834.
In the Anglo-Russian Convention of 1907 Iran was divided into three zones: a British zone in the south, a Russian zone in the north, and a narrow neutral zone serving as buffer in between. (The Convention was very careful not to call any of these zones a sphere of influence, for fear it would look like the Great Powers were partitioning Persia.)
Regarding Afghanistan, Russia recognized the country as a semi-protectorate of Great Britain and abandoned its earlier efforts to establish direct relations with the emir.
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...I just wonder why do I even bother arguing with you?...
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Because its fun, and entertaining......plus your wicked sense of post soviet era humor is biting, self effacing and extraordinarily revealing :D
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Originally posted by Yeager
...I just wonder why do I even bother arguing with you?...
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Because its fun, and entertaining......plus your wicked sense of post soviet era humor is biting, self effacing and extraordinarily revealing :D
I meant one particular person, not "you" in general. Arguing with Masherbrum is like a drunk man nagging at the radio: sing me a song, sing me a song! One-way communication.
:D
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Originally posted by Boroda
I meant one particular person, not "you" in general. Arguing with Masherbrum is like a drunk man nagging at the radio: sing me a song, sing me a song! One-way communication.
:D
Next you'll be telling us the Soviets were in Afghanistan "because they were lost".
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I guess it is just coincidence that every country that we have fought since WWII has had soviet weapons.. some even almost top shelf stuff..
It is the same for the russians... everyone they fight has US weapons...
Why don't we just admit it... we don't like each other and we think that commies are scum and all russians want to make everyone a commie and will always supply our enemies..
we can also admit that russians hate and envy us and think we are capitalist pigs and we want to destroy the great socialist dream and will always supply the enemies of socialism.
We don't like you and you don't like us and we will always try to get at each other by egging on some poor dumb third world country to cause one of us or the other a huge pain in the butt.. the only problem is...
you guys go over the line way too far.. you want to... have always been doing it.. give nukes to nutjobs.
This is unacceptable in our little game.
lazs
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Next you'll be telling us the Soviets were in Afghanistan "because they were lost".
Prefect radio answer.
Keep broadcasting please.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I guess it is just coincidence that every country that we have fought since WWII has had soviet weapons.. some even almost top shelf stuff..
It is the same for the russians... everyone they fight has US weapons...
Why don't we just admit it... we don't like each other and we think that commies are scum and all russians want to make everyone a commie and will always supply our enemies..
we can also admit that russians hate and envy us and think we are capitalist pigs and we want to destroy the great socialist dream and will always supply the enemies of socialism.
We don't like you and you don't like us and we will always try to get at each other by egging on some poor dumb third world country to cause one of us or the other a huge pain in the butt.. the only problem is...
you guys go over the line way too far.. you want to... have always been doing it.. give nukes to nutjobs.
This is unacceptable in our little game.
lazs
Lasz, can I use this quote as an illustration to our "discussions" here? I want to send it to left-wing press and get famous.
You guys are coming closer to perfection with every post. Russians say that "Other's mind is darkness" (÷óæàÿ äóøà - ïîò¸ìêè), I wish I could see something in a place where such concepts appear.
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boroda.. how bout being a little honest? why not admit that every misstep the US makes bring glee to you.
Sure.. we do the same.. we love to laugh at russians and the way they do things.
Admit it.. we don't like each other much and... once you guys get enough money to fund another soviet union we will be (openly) enemies again.
you and I have this in common... we both miss having each other as enemies.
difference is that I admit it.
To be fair.. this may be because we won... my life is great.. we have the things us fat capitalist pigs love while you have... vodka.
lazs
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Lol thought about making a thread for this...but it sorta fits here:
AJAF, Iraq — At what’s believed to be the world’s largest cemetery, where *****e Muslims aspire to be buried and millions already have been, business isn't good.
A drop in violence around Iraq has cut burials in the huge Wadi al Salam cemetery here by at least one-third in the past six months, and that’s cut the pay of thousands of workers who make their living digging graves, washing corpses or selling burial shrouds.
If ya look hard enough, ya can ALWAYS find a dark cloud behind a silver lining::rolleyes:
link (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/20530.html)
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Anyone who believes that Iran wants Russian (or any other source) of weapons grade plutonium SOLELY for a electrical power source lives in a fantasy world.
Iranian President Amattentionpotato has already told his own people what he plans to do with it...nuke Isreal.
I've asked this already, but got no answer...
HOW does giving Iran Russian weapons grade plutonium/uranium make the world SAFER?
HOW does giving Iran Russian weapons grade plutonium/uranium make Russia safer?
If they'd use it on Isreal, Afghanistan, Iraq...what makes you think they wouldn't use it on you?
I personally think that Iranian President Amattentionpotato saw the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the Iraqi army fall like a house of cards and pooped his pants.
He's got US/Coalition troops on both of his borders and knows his own army (LOVE the motorcycles!) would not last long...hence, all the rhetoric and grandstanding.
68ROX
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Originally posted by bj229r
Guy sure gets misquoted alot:rofl
Show me the original text, I'll have it translated for you and you can decide for yourself.
They simply dont have the same expressions, or idioms... someone decided:
This: "The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem must [vanish from] the page of time "
Best translated to this: "wiped off the map"..
1st "wipe off the map" mis quote was reported by Reuters and re-printed 100's of times as a wire story, even though the Iranian .gov corrected his statement.
He also didn't say Iran has no homosexuals, he said they don't have as many... and he also wasn't always taking about re-investigating the "holocaust" as was reported, he did mention re-investigating the 9/11 attacks several times...
There are lots of Jews living peacefully in Iran, they even have representation in the .gov.... they don't hate Jewish people, they are against a Jewish state based on one argument it wasn't fair to take away land from the people who lived there and give it away... and they spew a-lot of rhetoric aimed at removing the Israeli .gov.
Also consider Ahmadinejad is a politician, he lies, rallies his "base" with fiery rhetoric, and paints the west as a menace, an enemy, then portrays himself as the "decider" who can best combat these evils... JUST LIKE the liars in our .gov do with low budget speeches about fears of doom, mushroom clouds, WWII, crazy Arabs, the sky is falling, and the possible danger of a nuk-ler eye-ran.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Also consider Ahmadinejad is a politician, he lies, rallies his "base" with fiery rhetoric, and paints the west as a menace, an enemy, then portrays himself as the "decider" who can best combat these evils... JUST LIKE the liars in our .gov do with low budget speeches about fears of doom, mushroom clouds, WWII, crazy Arabs, the sky is falling, and the possible danger of a nuk-ler eye-ran.
so you are saying Ahmadinejad is hitler?
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this russian/arab invasion of Israel, predicted in Ezekiel book, 2600 years ago, must happen soon, in our lifetime, and the coalition is already built, just needs the spark
Ezekiel (Chapter 38) :1-13, the section which contains the named references, is provided below in extenso (emphasis added):
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; 'I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
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Gog - a title like czar, pharaoh or prince referring to a leader
Magog - refers to Russia based on:
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Originally posted by babek-
Iran has not started wars in the last centuries. It will develop itself to a regional power at the persian gulf - also because of Mr. Bush´s operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Both regimes there were enemies of Iran and with the Saddam regime in Bagdad and the Taliban regime in Kabul left, Iran has now much more influence and better relations to these neighbors.
Umm sorry but the Iran govt is in fact supporting the insurgents in Iraq. I can show you videos of insurgents using Russian made thermal hand grenades.
They didn't come from some lost stock pile in Saddamland. The only place they could have possiably come from is Iran. That's just one small example but there are many more things that prove Iran "is" playing a role in the supply and training of insurgents in Iraq.
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Originally posted by crockett
Umm sorry but the Iran govt is in fact supporting the insurgents in Iraq. I can show you videos of insurgents using Russian made thermal hand grenades.
They didn't come from some lost stock pile in Saddamland. The only place they could have possiably come from is Iran. That's just one small example but there are many more things that prove Iran "is" playing a role in the supply and training of insurgents in Iraq.
And you know they didn't come from Russia because...
Is Iran supplying & training "insurgents", of course they are.... what country wouldn't with a hostile countries troops next door? I'll bet Syria is too. Why is anyone shocked they're acting in their countries best interest?
The US did the exact same thing when the evil of communism reared its ugly head in a near-by Nicaragua. We supplied and trained the Contras to fight them "red fellas"...
Remember Iran / Contra?? the land of the free sold weapons to Israel, who then sent them to Iran?? funny stuff given todays "Iran is making the sky fall" rhetoric.
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Originally posted by crockett
Umm sorry but the Iran govt is in fact supporting the insurgents in Iraq. I can show you videos of insurgents using Russian made thermal hand grenades.
They didn't come from some lost stock pile in Saddamland. The only place they could have possiably come from is Iran. That's just one small example but there are many more things that prove Iran "is" playing a role in the supply and training of insurgents in Iraq.
Iraq is in a civil war.
On the one hand there are the sunnite forces. They once ruled iraq but always have been a minority. With the fall of the sunnite Saddam also the sunnites in iraq were washed away from power.
By using democratic election now the majority of the iraqis are now in power: The Shi ites.
And this is disturbing for fanatical sunnites who consider the shi ites as heretics.
So the sunnite countries Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan support the sunnites terrorists/insurgents in Iraq with money and weapons. Including the sunnite terrorists of Al Kaida.
These sunnite terrorists perform suicide bombings against the iraqi shi ites. They bomb day by day civilian shi ite targets, killing hundreds of innocent shi ites month by month.
Now to the shi ites:
During the terror regime of Saddam more than a million iraqis fled to Iran. iran is the only other country in the world beside Iraq which has a shi ite majority. Even being a non-arab country Iran helped the arad iraqi shi ites. They lived for a decade in iran and after Saddam was deposed they returned to Iraq.
These iraqis are extremely pro-iranian and get support by the iranians. Like the government of Iraq is supported by Iran.
The actual president of Iraq is Mr. Maliki.
Mr. Maliki had to flee from iraq to Iran during the Saddam-time. During Iran Iraq war he worked for the iranian revolutionary Guard, the Pasdaran. He was used to convince iraqi soldiers to surrender or for interrogation of iraqi POWs.
Mr. Maliki travelled to iran after he was elected as president and thanked Iran for their help for Iraq. The western media do not report about the many humanitarian aid Iran does in iraq - especially the shi ite regions.
There are iranian MD´s working in Iraq to help the people.
Iran is not supporting "THE" insurgents.
Iran is helping the shi ites to avoid that the sunnites - with the sunnite Al kaida leading them and Saudi Arabia/Pakistan financing them - will ever supress, kill and torture again the iraqi people.
So all nations has to be blamed for supporting one of the civil war sides of Iraq - but surely not Iran alone. And surely Iran is not detsabilizing Iraq.
Here you should blame Saudi-Arabia, which is the top-supporter of the Al Kaida.
Or Pakistan which is the top-Supporter of the Talibans.
Iran has alsways been the enemy of Al Kaida or Taliban - even long before 9/11. That a fact.
So maybe you should ask yourself why your government accept the behavior of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan who are helping the enemies of the USA and are so responsible for the death and crippling of so many US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
And you know they didn't come from Russia because...
Is Iran supplying & training "insurgents", of course they are.... what country wouldn't with a hostile countries troops next door? I'll bet Syria is too. Why is anyone shocked they're acting in their countries best interest?
The US did the exact same thing when the evil of communism reared its ugly head in a near-by Nicaragua. We supplied and trained the Contras to fight them "red fellas"...
Remember Iran / Contra?? the land of the free sold weapons to Israel, who then sent them to Iran?? funny stuff given todays "Iran is making the sky fall" rhetoric.
So it's ok that Russian made weapons are sold to Iran and then used against our troops by insurgents in Iraq? We are just supposed to ignore this and accept it because Iran is only acting on it's own behalf?
Trust me I don't think the US is angles and can do no wrong. I never supported this war however I do support our troops. I've always felt Iraq was a BS war for greedy ******* to profit from.
The issues is we are there and we aren't going any where anytime soon, and weapons from Iran are being used against our troops. So what do you suggest we do let them continue to do it?
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Originally posted by babek-
Iraq is in a civil war.
The history lesson is fine, but our troops are still being attacked by forces supplied and trained by Iran.
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Originally posted by ghi
this russian/arab invasion of Israel, predicted in Ezekiel book, 2600 years ago, must happen soon, in our lifetime, and the coalition is already built, just needs the spark
Ezekiel (Chapter 38) :1-13, the section which contains the named references, is provided below in extenso (emphasis added):
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; 'I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
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Gog - a title like czar, pharaoh or prince referring to a leader
Magog - refers to Russia based on:
:rofl
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Originally posted by crockett
The history lesson is fine, but our troops are still being attacked by forces supplied and trained by Iran.
Our civilians are killed by terrorists who have their bases in Iraq and who are protected by the US forces. They are called MEK, defined by the USA themself as terrorist - and their camps are protected by US-troops.
Also most US soldiers in Iraq and all in Afghanistan who were killed by terrorists are victims of sunnite organisations like Al Kaida and the Taliban.
And those are supported by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
Again my question: Why not acting against these countries ? They are killing US soldiers, crippling them and so on.
Iran has no interest to increase the civil war. They have - thanks to the stupid politic of Bush - already won.
1. The enemy in the East - the Taliban regime - has been eliminated and in western afghanistan pro-iranian warlords rule the land, especially in the region of Herat.
2. The enemy in the west - Saddams sunnites - have been eliminated from power. Now a pro-iranian shi ite is the president of Iraq and Iran has the greatest influence in southeast Iraq since the creation of Iraq after WW1.
3. Saddam has been executed by shi ite militias - so at least there was revenge for his crimes against the 100thousands of iranians he killed.
4. If Iraq is stabilized the shi ites will rule the land, just because they are the majority of the iraqi people. Unlike western democracies the 3 groups in Iraq vote their ethnical or religious group. They dont feel as iraqis but as sunnites, shi ites and kurds. Just check the results af the elections in Iraq. Those politicians who wanted to ignore the religios / ethnical background and had a unified iraqi program got only few votes. 95% of the shi ites voted exactly like the Grand Ajatollah Sistani (by the way an iranian) told them to vote.
5. The new iraqi army and police is now under shi ite control. Thats one reason why so many sunnite Al kaida attacks are performed against the recruiting or army/police stations.
So for Iran ist a nice political situation. They can wait and just have to take care that the sunnite terrorists, supported by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan dont win the civil war. To prevent that Al kaida and the other sunnites win they help the majority of the iraqis - the shi ites and even the kurds.
There is no plot of bad iranians who deliver weapons to terrorists in Irqaq so they can killespecially US troops. Iran has to take care that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan dont bring the Al Kaida and the sunnites in a position that this minority can supress again the iraqi people.
But for iran the US occupation troops in iraq are not the enemy. In contrary. These badly outnumbered troops are also fighting the enemies of Iran: The sunnite terrorists of Al Kaida and Co.
That the US government is not doing anything against Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and so the Al Kaida can continue killing US soldiers is another story. One that the US government has to answer to its people.
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Originally posted by crockett
So it's ok that Russian made weapons are sold to Iran and then used against our troops by insurgents in Iraq? We are just supposed to ignore this and accept it because Iran is only acting on it's own behalf?
Trust me I don't think the US is angles and can do no wrong. I never supported this war however I do support our troops. I've always felt Iraq was a BS war for greedy ******* to profit from.
The issues is we are there and we aren't going any where anytime soon, and weapons from Iran are being used against our troops. So what do you suggest we do let them continue to do it?
I suggest leaving Iraq so they're unable to kill our troops, problem solved.
There isn't a country on this planet that wouldn't work to expel an enemy from next door... and of course our .gov knew this would happen. Veep Dick talked about it in his infamous "quagmire" video... Iraq is smack in the middle of a a volatile part of the world and all that..
Besides that, any competent war planner would, uh, have a plan against the obvious... like planning for looting when the cops / military were summarily fired... oops, bad example.
IMO Dick & Bush were COUNTING on Iran supplying the "enemy", this way the dynamic dunces can hypocritically yammer on about how evil Iran is for killing our troops... they're counting on the knee jerk emotional reaction for political capitol. NOT planning to stop Iranian meddling is a self fulfilling prophecy, "Ya see!! them evil eye-rain-deer terrorists are doing exactly what we knew they would do, they're eeeeevile I tell ya!!.
Another history lesson for the oclub masses:
Q: Which country helped build Iran's first research reactor at the University of Tehran, then provided Iran with 5.85 kilograms of 93 percent enriched uranium?
A: The USA, 1967.
And now Bush is suggesting world war III if eye-ran becomes nuk-u-ler.... the sky is falling... wouldn't that make WWIII our fault? did we put eye-ran on the road to nuclear armageddon? Kinda like the way we set up Saddam with his WMDs, then went in and kicked his bellybutton because of it... the US .gov are not very polite gift givers.
The foreign policy decisions of the US .gov would be hilarious, if the results weren't so pathetically sad.
That whizzing sound you sometimes hear in your ears are the founding fathers spinning in their graves.
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Originally posted by lazs2
boroda.. how bout being a little honest? why not admit that every misstep the US makes bring glee to you.
Sure.. we do the same.. we love to laugh at russians and the way they do things.
Admit it.. we don't like each other much and... once you guys get enough money to fund another soviet union we will be (openly) enemies again.
you and I have this in common... we both miss having each other as enemies.
difference is that I admit it.
To be fair.. this may be because we won... my life is great.. we have the things us fat capitalist pigs love while you have... vodka.
lazs
Lasz, what you say is frightening.
And it's even more frightening because you are one of the sane people here.
Friends/enemies is not an issue, our countries have their interests, and now we finally have a regime that at least minds this interests, unlike traitors with birthmark and 8 fingers.
We also like to laugh at Russian way of doing things. There is a popular concept that Americans are "dumb", no, "duuuuumb", but I don't think it's true. We are just different and at the same time have many things common. What scares you is that Russians start acting like Americans, pragmatic.
I have told here that Russia benefits from American adventure in Iraq, our oil companies enjoy high oil prices. In this case Putin can afford being on "high moral grounds". It's politics.
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Originally posted by crockett
So it's ok that Russian made weapons are sold to Iran and then used against our troops by insurgents in Iraq? We are just supposed to ignore this and accept it because Iran is only acting on it's own behalf?
Trust me I don't think the US is angles and can do no wrong. I never supported this war however I do support our troops. I've always felt Iraq was a BS war for greedy ******* to profit from.
The issues is we are there and we aren't going any where anytime soon, and weapons from Iran are being used against our troops. So what do you suggest we do let them continue to do it?
Russian-made weapons?!
Iraqi T-72s were made in Poland. AKs are Romanian. NATO members. We supplied some SAMs, as well as France and CzSSR. Purely defensive arms.
Most of the Soviet export to Iraq was oil-drilling equipment.
In 1980 USSR stopped weapon shipments to Iraq because Iraq was an aggressor in Iran-Iraq war. Later contracts were resumed only because Iraq started to lose. I hope you know who kept supplying Saddam when USSR didn't.
And we never supplied anyone with WMD.
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Originally posted by ghi
this russian/arab invasion of Israel, predicted in Ezekiel book, 2600 years ago, must happen soon, in our lifetime, and the coalition is already built, just needs the spark
It already happened. 1948 war was fought by Soviet WWII vets there with weapons from Soviet block.
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Originally posted by 68ROX
Anyone who believes that Iran wants Russian (or any other source) of weapons grade plutonium SOLELY for a electrical power source lives in a fantasy world.
Iranian President Amattentionpotato has already told his own people what he plans to do with it...nuke Isreal.
I've asked this already, but got no answer...
HOW does giving Iran Russian weapons grade plutonium/uranium make the world SAFER?
HOW does giving Iran Russian weapons grade plutonium/uranium make Russia safer?
If they'd use it on Isreal, Afghanistan, Iraq...what makes you think they wouldn't use it on you?
I personally think that Iranian President Amattentionpotato saw the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the Iraqi army fall like a house of cards and pooped his pants.
He's got US/Coalition troops on both of his borders and knows his own army (LOVE the motorcycles!) would not last long...hence, all the rhetoric and grandstanding.
Doesn't anyone have another globe for me?
You surely live on some other planet, so I wand one for me too.
The only country where we supplied weapon-grade fission materials was the United States.
This thread is soooo much fun! :D
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Originally posted by crockett
The history lesson is fine, but our troops are still being attacked by forces supplied and trained by Iran.
are you sure? maybe its just anotherr Bush/CIA lie told to the brain dead "Bu****es"
find it strange you will believe this yet throw 98% of everything else this admin says /said about this war out the window as an out and out lie
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Originally posted by Boroda
Russian-made weapons?!
Sure, all of the small arms and even the Mig-29's.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Sure, all of the small arms and even the Mig-29's.
I think you'll change your avatar - Putin loves Pink Floyd.
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day :D
JFYI: US sent more weapons to Iraq then USSR.
All AKs i see in Iraq on TV are Romanian or Chinese. Just look at muzzle-compensators.
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boroda... "sane" or not.. my opinion of russians and commies has never changed. There is no reason to change it now.
the russians that come here... I have met a few that are good...90% tho are gangsters.
I only know that in every conflict we have we will be facing russian made weapons supplied by russians. I only know that your people so far... seem capable of only communism or gangsterism. I will not pretend that a strong soviet union/russia is something I want.
babek talks of the peaceful and logical iranians with the help of the peaceful and honest russians.
I see US hostages being paraded through the streets in blindfolds and screaming for the death of America... I see the crowds. I see iran looking to have a nuke and russia helping them.. I see our troops being killed with weapons that the iranians got from the russians.
Every conflict we have ever had.. russia was the one supplying the enemy.
No wonder you think Americans are "dumb"... if you think we don't notice.
Just like you maybe think that we don't notice that you are happy at every bad thing that happens to our country.
to me... the worst thing that can happen to the world is a strong russia/soviet union.
lazs
lazs
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(http://www.ukrainianweb.com/images/chernobyl/chernobyl_reactor.jpg)
Maybe Russia will help Iran build another Chernobyl.
:p
Mac
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Lasz google for Griboyedov, Russian ambassador in Persia. 1826 IIRC.
We face weapons made in our country too. Chechnya. Iran and Israel were the two countries supporting Russian anti-terror operation there. While the US hosts Chechen terrorists.
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Originally posted by AWMac
(http://www.ukrainianweb.com/images/chernobyl/chernobyl_reactor.jpg)
Maybe Russia will help Iran build another Chernobyl.
:p
Mac
Three-mile island.
Anyway it will be better then Bhopal. 30 firemen killed or 50,000 civilians killed by Union Carbide. You choose.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Three-mile island.
Anyway it will be better then Bhopal. 30 firemen killed or 50,000 civilians killed by Union Carbide. You choose.
Three-mile island was a good example of well designed reactor facitlity with working safety features preventing any injury. Chernobyl, not so much.
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Originally posted by Boroda
And we never supplied anyone with WMD.
Hey the USA only sold Saddam $500 million worth, then gave him intelligence on how to best use his new WMD toys against the Iranians.
The home of the brave sold or sent biological samples to Iraq that included gnarly items like (humm the National anthem while reading this for dramatic effect) Anthrax, West Nile virus, Botulism, Brucella melitensis, and clostridium perfringens... which damages major organs & cause gangrene respectively.
But the US .gov wanted to be friendly & fair, I guess, and promptly sold weapons to a "terrorist" regime; Iran (Iran / Contra)... at the SAME TIME we were supporting Saddam in his war against Iran.
See how warm, fuzzy and friendly US "leaders" are? we'll happily supply both sides with cool stuff to kill each other with... but if another country dares do the exact same things the US .gov does, our politicians wet themselves with phony moral outrage. I wonder if they're just being bold face hypocrites, liars.. or if they're just completely ignorant of history?
Imagine if we thought our kids the "moral values" of our .gov?, we'd be teaching our kids it's ok to take another kids stuff, then slap him for complaining about it. We'd also be teaching them that if we knew of two other kids who wanted to fight, it'd be perfectly ok sell each kid the weapons necessary for them to kill eachother... then lie about it.
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Iran invaded US territory in 1979. When a country invades another's embassy without warning they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy resulting in the loss of possible direct diplomatic relations. Perhaps this is Islam or perhaps it's the Iranian people. Either way, after almost 30 years we still have no embassy in Iran.
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x0847Marine, the USA just wants a level playing field , you got something against being fair?
but i make joke , you filter facts through your librul brain and select what you want.
And then rant on.
It must really suck to be you.
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Originally posted by Boroda
All AKs i see in Iraq on TV are Romanian or Chinese. Just look at muzzle-compensators.
Source?
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the gun people say the chinese AK's are better made than the russian guns.
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Originally posted by john9001
the gun people say the chinese AK's are better made than the russian guns.
Are you tryin' to stir up some ****? :aok
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well the chinese receivers are made of heaver metal and won't warp when they get hot under heavy use like the russian ones.
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I have a Chinese AK ("MAK-90")--always been a nice weapon....stock split RIGHT where top rear mounting screw goes...that funny wood they use.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Source?
LOL.
My own eyes.
I kept insisting on it.
What a lame tool...
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Originally posted by Boroda
Three-mile island.
Anyway it will be better then Bhopal. 30 firemen killed or 50,000 civilians killed by Union Carbide. You choose.
Make a bet with you... I'll camp out on Three Mile Island and Bhopal for a week each if you'll do the same at Chernobyl for one week.
Only clothes, a tent and bug spray allowed.
Is Bet Comrade?
Mac
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Three-mile island has two reactors , one of them was shut down (TMI-2) the other reactor (TMI-1) continues to operate.
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Originally posted by AWMac
Make a bet with you... I'll camp out on Three Mile Island and Bhopal for a week each if you'll do the same at Chernobyl for one week.
Only clothes, a tent and bug spray allowed.
Is Bet Comrade?
Mac
I can do w/o bug spray (repellent).
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Originally posted by Boroda
I can do w/o bug spray (repellent).
Man, not me. I'm like a bug light when it comes to mosquitoes.
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Originally posted by Boroda
LOL.
My own eyes.
I kept insisting on it.
What a lame tool...
Obviously not, because those Mig 29's in Iran, from 1991 are still waiting to get shot down.
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Originally posted by Boroda
I think you'll change your avatar - Putin loves Pink Floyd.
You think I will? For the record, I have NOTHING against your country.
I'm glad he like Pink Floyd, I wish Putin would listen to Brain Damage/Eclipse a few times and learn something from the lyrics.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
You think I will? For the record, I have NOTHING against your country.
I'm glad he like Pink Floyd, I wish Putin would listen to Brain Damage/Eclipse a few times and learn something from the lyrics.
the lunatic is on the grass :D
The paper holds their folded fades to th floor :D
And all that is near etc
You rearrange me till i'm sane :D
I don't like comrade Putin and I wish he listens to it
Everytjing under the sun is in cheer!
I have committed some good things in an Underground tonight, envy me!...
All you distrust, all You save..
Damn next song is Embryo.