Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on October 18, 2007, 10:15:26 AM
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For Cod's sake, I don't want to discuss what YOU think of his analogy that Africans in particular are less intelligent than Westerner's. This thread would be closed instantly.
I would like to hear your comments of whether genetic testing can actually determine this among races? Could it be possible that not all races have equal intelligence?
DNA pioneer theorizes that Africans are less intelligent than Westerners
http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3067222.ece
Judging by RLE, I would say that I have not found that any race is more or less intelligent than others. Certain cultures are definately more intelligent than others, but I've not found that to be the case in race, by my real life experiences.
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I work with a "african" american and the guy is plenty smarter than me.
Its all about culture and whether you have access to an education.....
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I would like to hear your comments of whether genetic testing can actually determine this among races? Could it be possible that not all races have equal intelligence?
It would be interesting to see a study done, but in todays PC society the idea is so un PC to even sugest there could be a difference you would never get the funding, and no one would believe your results if they showed anything.
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sounds like a load of utter rubbish to me
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
It would be interesting to see a study done, but in todays PC society the idea is so un PC to even sugest there could be a difference you would never get the funding, and no one would believe your results if they showed anything.
I certainly agree, NO one would fund this, short of David Duke! :lol
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I agree... I do not believe there is any intelligence differences that are race related. I have met folks from all races that are extremely intelligent. I have also met folks from all races with an IQ 1 point lower than a stump.
I'd like to see the study and how it was performed. I'd also like to see how the subjects were chosen and where they were from.
Sounds more like someone trying to show some results for all the Grant money they received... lol
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There is a twin study done that shows that there are indeed differences between the races.
This is however horribly un-pc, so it is mostly ignored and most people pretend it doesnt exist. Either that, or they try to shift the discussion into "what is race/there is no such thing as race".
But, nevertheless, there is a twin study done that shows that there are intelligence is not only environmental, there is also a genetic variable.
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It's not junk science. Neuroscientists have said it too, but I don't have any refs for that, sorry :)
Not everyone is equal at everything, it's a pretty varied landscape. The problem is probably made worse by the exact inequalities going over average joe's head, and most people unable to cope with the idea (accurate understanding or not).
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Redheads will eventually Rule the World!
Live with it!
:p
Mac
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Since all our DNA is African, how can this study possibly be correct?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Since all our DNA is African, how can this study possibly be correct?
See class, this is an example of the "there is no such thing as race"-argument. Notice how it doesnt adress the twin-study or its findings at all, instead it seeks to divert the attention of the reader to something different and irrelevant to the discussion.
This is also known as the Chewbacca-defense.
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I don't see why not. Statistically, black people are better than white people at some sports (i.e. running 100m) because their muscles are a bit different. Why wouldn't it be the same with the brain?
For an individual tho, it doesn't mean much: even if the smartest people are white (like the fastest runners are black), there are a lot of black people who have a higher IQ than me.
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Originally posted by deSelys
I don't see why not. Statistically, black people are better than white people at some sports (i.e. running 100m) because their muscles are a bit different. Why wouldn't it be the same with the brain?
For an individual tho, it doesn't mean much: even if the smartest people are white (like the fastest runners are black), there are a lot of black people who have a higher IQ than me.
Link to bold part?
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You can disagree with the guy, but to flat out dismiss the question without any scientific pursuit is utter PC rubbish.
Maybe Nilsen truly is smarter than us all.
;)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Since all our DNA is African, how can this study possibly be correct?
Its originally African but you need to remember also that thousands upon thousands of years after the African ancestors migrated their DNA also changed in minute ways in order to survive.
How do you think the different races came to be? Its all adaptations to survive in the enviroment. 'whites' most likely are white because that was the best adaptation to survive in the ice-locked european region during the ice age... the inuit/eskimos facial region adapted significantly to survive in the brutal cold of the artic... people from india and the middle east are 'brown'ish as this was the best way to deal with their enviroment.
And that is just external changes... who knows what internal differences developed? For the sake of argument, think which group has the highest chance of having had the most changes in their brain in order to survive: those in a warm tropical climate or those in cold climates & limited in resources?
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Haven't geneticists determined we all come from the exact same genetic root in Africa?
That we are all related to one single African female?
I believe they gave her a name.
A reference for this is here (http://www.archaeology.org/9609/abstracts/dna.html)
My feeling is... differences of this sort in races are only important to people who have low self esteem... and some scientists wanting grant money and to make a name for themselves.
TIGERESS
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When certain groups of Africans started to migrate north toward the Mediterranean sea they started to eat more fish which in turn developed their brains. Other groups moved even farther north and had to develop their endurance and ability to gain fat to survive in colder regions because they where unable to eat as often and had to hunt their food over long distances.
When we start colonizing other planets in the future you'll be able to tell from which of those planets someone is from by their looks because their bodies will have to adapt to that planet. We might even modify their DNA while their en-route to that planet to colonize. We need to get over this race BS if the human race is to survive.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Link to bold part?
Here's one that touches on the topic:
http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/AAAS_peeringUnderTheHood.htm
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Originally posted by Tigeress
Haven't geneticists determined we all come from the exact same genetic root in Africa?
no
from your link
<>
it's just a hypothesis.
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Originally posted by Tiger
Here's one that touches on the topic:
http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/AAAS_peeringUnderTheHood.htm
Interesting. Thanks.
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Originally posted by john9001
no
from your link
<>
it's just a hypothesis.
Thanks for that info John. I didn't bother to actually read that particular reference through. Just saw it's subject and skimmed it a bit. That will teach me not to read the darn thing! hahahaha
On the subject of the thread, I have known people from many races who were dumb as a post, including my own race.
How smart a race is is not nearly as important as how smart an individual is, in my view.
And who decided what smart is? People who invented the atom bomb or people who understood nature well enough to know to live in balance with it... as part of it?
Thanks again.
TIGERESS
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what I find amusing is that the same people who glibly accept that we can determine average global temperature feel it is impossible to determine average IQ for races.
I most definitely believe that the man is correct as is the bell curve. individuals differ but in general... some races are smarter than others.
some races are smaller... some even have different enzymes in the liver.. some have darker skin and some have denser bones but less upper body strength.
there simply are differences.. you would have to be the worlds dumbest PC ahole to not accept that.
lazs
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Originally posted by Tigeress
Haven't geneticists determined we all come from the exact same genetic root in Africa?
That we are all related to one single African female?
I believe they gave her a name.
A reference for this is here (http://www.archaeology.org/9609/abstracts/dna.html)
My feeling is... differences of this sort in races are only important to people who have low self esteem... and some scientists wanting grant money and to make a name for themselves.
TIGERESS
No offense Tigress, but seeing how scientists have completely flip-flopped
on things like the dinosaurs I'm going to wait and see about this
particular theory.
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Not to mention.... butter? good for you or bad for you this week?
lazs
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My dog is smarter than most of you... including myself.
I can prove it.
He doesnt need to work, gets free food, and can lick his balls. He's always happy and uses some sort of telepathic control to get his way all the time by just staring me.
Yea... dogs are intellectually superior to all of us.
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my dogs work, they chase squirrels and chipmunks, fertilize the field, pick up all the twigs and sticks that fall off the trees and chew them up, and welcome all the delivery and mail people.
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Oh and on a side note please define "african". There are various regions in africa where the "racial" diff's are noticable in skin coloration, size, etc.
Physical diff's are defined by nutrition and enviroment. The human brain in all races is the same average size and we use the same tiney portion of it.
I'm not being PC correct but stuff like this is simply stupid.
Intel is cultural in nature and very subjective.
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Originally posted by john9001
my dogs work, they chase squirrels and chipmunks, fertilize the field, pick up all the twigs and sticks that fall off the trees and chew them up, and welcome all the delivery and mail people.
Thats your dog.... he must be african :P
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two Labradors.
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Originally posted by Rino
No offense Tigress, but seeing how scientists have completely flip-flopped
on things like the dinosaurs I'm going to wait and see about this
particular theory.
No offense taken at all. Yeah they flip-flop all the time.
Frankly, I think it not an issue if one race is smarter than another one.
Like, who cares?
Why is this even being done? To stir up trouble?
Gee, go find a cure for the common cold or something important...
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by batdog
Oh and on a side note please define "african". There are various regions in africa where the "racial" diff's are noticable in skin coloration, size, etc.
Physical diff's are defined by nutrition and enviroment. The human brain in all races is the same average size and we use the same tiney portion of it.
I'm not being PC correct but stuff like this is simply stupid.
Intel is cultural in nature and very subjective.
Hummmm... I have a friend who is African... South African ...she is blonde haired and white as a ghost as are all her ancesters as far as she knows.
TIGERESS
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Take a city slicker and a country boy and you will find that each is less intelligent in the others environment.
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Imagine that you have two overlapping bell shaped curves that are a bit out of phase with each other. These two bell shaped curves could represent; height, susceptibility to a particular disease, intelligence or a variety of differences between any two races. You can either focus on the fact that they are not perfectly aligned and one race is “better” than the other, or you can focus on the fact that the vast majority of area is overlapping (for most examples).
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Originally posted by Yeager
I work with a "african" american and the guy is plenty smarter than me.
same here and he's a very organized person as well. I enjoy his company and he's an asset to the team.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Link to bold part?
There are numerous studies on this...
There are several types of muscle fiber, fast twitch and slow twitch (and subtypes for both of these). My wife is an excercise physiologist, and if she were home right now, I'm sure she'd come up with some articles/reviews on this.
Judging from the journals she reads, I'd say the American Journal of Physiology is a good place to start. Typically they publish 1 or 2 reviews in each issue. Might need to access them through your local library, though b/c of the subscription.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Could it be possible that not all races have equal intelligence?
Could it be that we are one race of people...separated by our individualities?
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white is superior
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Originally posted by BiGBMAW
white is superior
I am totally shocked and amazed that you would say that.
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lolo.. cant let it go on..Hook Line and sinker
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Originally posted by lazs2
Not to mention.... butter? good for you or bad for you this week?
lazs
All that wasted time. Reunited and it tastes so good!
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Pie makes you smart. Races that eat alot of pie are smarter. DOgs are the most smarter of all races. Its raining today. This is not kmart. I need to take a dump and my butt is sweaty.
I realllly want some pie.
I bet i can take that shopping cart down a 45 deg angle slope and hit max accelration w/in 300 feet ...this includes me wieghing 225 pds.
I like kmart
ohhhh.... check out her butt. She has a nice butt. Uh oh... car.... gotta pee gotta pee on tire.
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batdog and you others... I have no idea why negros do so poorly.. why they are less intelligent than all the other races.. or why whites are less than asians or why negros have denser bones..
none of it really matters.. the guy isn't saying that it is not possible for negros to be smart. he is saying that... right now... no matter what the reason... they simply are at the bottom of the scale.
Someone has to be. You are all wanting to be so PC that you are willing to deny fact.. that is disgusting to me and not helpful at all.
Work on the reasons all you like... espouse your theories on why this is true but... at the end of the day... face the facts that it is true that they are not as smart and that any reason for this that you give is just a guess.
lazs
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Seems like basic evolution to me.
People who evolved in the tropical zones never had to develop certain technologies to survive--technologies involving shelter, clothing and cultivation that the Europeans and Asians had to develop in order to live through the colder months.
The Africans developed longer, more powerful muscles for hunting and chasing animals, where as others worked and toiled with tools, were forced to master their environment, deal with its more severe cycles. Of course, those in the warmer regions had to develop technologies of their own, but nearly to the extent of those in the harsher latitudes.
Different aspects of the human body were emphasized, as each of these races favored their own approach to survival. One emphasizes the physical while the other emphasizes problem solving. Eventually, as technology progressed, mere survival turned into expansion for those with the technological background... And so while the Europeans and Asians built ships, modern armies and developed sanitation for their giant cities, those from the warmer climates stayed largely the same--call it environmentally-imposed complancency.
Today, when we measure intelligence, we value problem solving. Hundreds, even thousands of generations of evolution can certainly account for whatever deviations there are in the statistics.
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Like I said.. the reasons are maybe interesting but... just theory and unimportant so far as the facts go.. they simply are not as smart as a race... sorry... toooo bad... thats the way the cookie crumbles.. whatever.
get over it... they can still run better...tolerate sun better and can't swim as well (denser bones).. or does someone want to argue that ?
lazs
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So you don't like my theory Lazs?
I know I'm certainly not the first to come up with it, but I did come up with it independently.
What I'm saying is that I'm the Andrei Sakharov of Racial Evolutionary studies... And all this before my morning shower!
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PC correctness rules.
PC PC PC PC PC ! VOTE for Hilary!!! Gun control rules!
WOoot woot!
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Originally posted by lazs2
Like I said.. the reasons are maybe interesting but... just theory and unimportant so far as the facts go.. they simply are not as smart as a race... sorry... toooo bad... thats the way the cookie crumbles.. whatever.
get over it... they can still run better...tolerate sun better and can't swim as well (denser bones).. or does someone want to argue that ?
lazs
Yea, and they arent as smart. Why should they even be allowed to work beside and white person... I mean on average they're just not where we are right? Blacks in leadership postions? Come on.... I mean I bet COlin is part white, ever hear him talk?
The perceptions you just espoused earlier are crap. You fail to see that beyond some (I will give you this) MINOR physical differences that we're pretty much from the same stock. Anything else is purely enviromental in the now... ie why arent there more great white boxers? Well.... white people in the US are taught that they have many diff ways to succeed rather that in just sports. Its cultural.... and little else.
But if it makes you feel better about yourself then eat it up. I played football, basketball, rugby and I saw guys from all races who sucked and who where quite good. I then saw alot of those same white guys go off to school.... and if the skin was darker and they didnt have a scholorship then they just got a job doing whatever... as thats what they were taught by mom and maybe dad if he was there... once again cultural.
Blacks society is in sad straits today due to thier culture being bankrupt... but its not due to the fact that they're simply not as smart. The Irish Americans could of gone the same path but the social outs where not in place to "save" them ie welfare etc... it was work, or starve.
But like you said... I'm "PC" correct (which is totaly bull **** if you knew me) which often is a term used to defend an ignorant statement.
Hell..maybe I'm really a black guy... no maybe I'm a gay muslim... now that would be interesting.
I'm just sooooo PC correct. I love it!
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7052416.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7052416.stm)
The Nobel Prize-winning DNA pioneer James Watson has been
suspended by his research institution in the US.
Dr Watson has drawn severe criticism over remarks he made in a British
newspaper at the weekend.
In the interview, he was quoted as saying Africans were less intelligent
than Europeans
He's out of there......
:lol
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Originally posted by soda72
He's out of there......
:lol
Don't worry Soda... Great minds are often stifled by limited thinkers.
Galileo has his problems too.
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LOL... a couple of studies and lazs is down with it... it must be gospel.
Thousands of studies on global warming of which 99.9% agree and he thinks it's crap. You're a funny guy lazs.
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99.9% DO NOT AGREE that Humans Are the cause...
Lord MT you are a typical Linguini,,,besides your NRA in name only gun owning ; )
btw Whiteys are smarter
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Generally speaking, it is found that certain enzymes in the brain cause a breakdown of neurotransmitters. These neurotransmitters are essential to learning and memory. Asians have the least amount of these particular enzymes, caucasians have the 2nd least, and those of African descent have the most.
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neubob... yes... I like your theory well enough but in the end... it is just a theory. the facts are what they are... negros, as a race, today and in the past.. are not as smart as whites..
Whites are not as smart as asians and jews are smarter than my people..
Get over it pc folks... you can't change facts because they don't fit what you want them to be.
It is not I who "want" things to be a certain way but the PC idiots who ignore the facts. I have only seen a few studies on it and both claim the same thing... some races are smarter than others in the world we live in... this is not true in la la land but we don't live in la la land.
Why are there not more studies? welllllllll... look what happens when you give the results.
From what I can tell the differences are not all that large but.. they do exist.
What's the big deal.. it seems that the only people equating inferiority with IQ are the liberals here. Like.. being a few points down makes you less human somehow.
Do I feel less human than some jew or asian? no, of course not.. so what if as a race... he has a slightly better IQ than the average person of my race.
I am an individual not a race. hell.. the socialists here are showing their colors with their PC.. this country and my rights were not founded on equality but on freedom. We are all created with equal rights... The constitution recognizes this and gives us freedom based on equal rights...
It does not, nor was it intended to, equalize ability.. the founders recognized that there was unequal ability and gave us the freedom to use that.
lazs