Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: humble on October 19, 2007, 11:34:46 AM
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I had an interesting little run in this AM....
I was roughly 8k or so climbing out to the furball (A19-A1) and came across a friendly and a pony locked up. From my view the pony had just gone angles taken a pass/shot and was just diving out to reload and reengage...
I pointed the nose down and fired a burst across his nose...my intention was to convert back up and leave the friendly "reset" with the pony. Well the pony driver continued back to the friendly and reengaged (with me following in lag)....so I converted to lead and killed him when he gave me the chance.
I then get a diatrabe on 200 about what a POS I am and had "stolen" the friendlies kill yada yada yada. Now I knew the friendly would welcome the help from past sorties. I also knew from feel that the pony was the aggressor and the spitty was defensive (the pony wasnt extending he was reloading)...
I also didnt pick the pony, he had ample warning I was there and didnt adjust to me as a threat.
Now the guy in question is someone who I respect as a fine stick and to be candid I was a bit suprised by his outburst and continued trash talk. I'm suprised that someone flying in a "known furball" zone is gonna expect to be left to pick his fights etc....especially a guy who isnt a furballer but more of a picker (this not ment as derogatory just observation of style).
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so let me get this straight. You were flying, an enemy was flying, you both had guns, you killed him...
Nope, don't see a problem here.
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Originally posted by humble
Very cool of you. I have done the same for my country mates! No guilt should be involved in burning the pony.
I pointed the nose down and fired a burst across his nose...my intention was to convert back up and leave the friendly "reset" with the pony. Well the pony driver continued back to the friendly and reengaged (with me following in lag)....so I converted to lead and killed him when he gave me the chance.
Why are you listening to the Jerry Springer channel? It's a total waste of time!
I then get a diatrabe on 200 about what a POS I am and had "stolen" the friendlies kill yada yada yada. Now I knew the friendly would welcome the help from past sorties. I also knew from feel that the pony was the aggressor and the spitty was defensive (the pony wasnt extending he was reloading)...
Ok I'll say it...Pickin's ok(just not your nose)LOL
I also didnt pick the pony, he had ample warning I was there and didnt adjust to me as a threat.
Why respect a trash talking retard? This ain't high school my man.
Now the guy in question is someone who I respect as a fine stick and to be candid I was a bit suprised by his outburst and continued trash talk. I'm suprised that someone flying in a "known furball" zone is gonna expect to be left to pick his fights etc....especially a guy who isnt a furballer but more of a picker (this not ment as derogatory just observation of style).
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:rofl Don't you know that people in MA only want a 1 vs 1 when they have the upper hand? Anything within 2K behind them and they cry for help :rofl
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Yes, when in trouble everyone wants you to clear their six, or otherwise get them out of trouble. However, heaven forbid that you engage when the freindly has the upper hand.
Just ignore them, if people want a duel, they can go to a dueling arena.
With all that said, I always ask if help is wanted before engaging, if I get no answer I engage the enemy. Even when I do that, I still get complaintes for interfering. So you cannot win, no matter what you do.
Just have fun, remember it is a game, and that there are always people out there that live to be annoyed.
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Ded this is not a guy I'd attribute this type of outburst to. In fact I think he's a class act overall....its a bit funny to look at a guy bubbling over and going "DA punk" when I've almost never seen him in the DA and he's not a guy I'd view as a DA/furballer type...
kaos
Wasnt the friendly mad was the bogie, and we'd asked the friendly before and he was an "automatic green light" type of guy. Also I didnt pick him off the guys 6 I ran a B&Z pass on his extension to get him to let the spitty (friendly) reset...I simply followed him thru when he reengaged vs altering to orient on the new threat (me).....
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Originally posted by captkaos
Yes, when in trouble everyone wants you to clear their six, or otherwise get them out of trouble. However, heaven forbid that you engage when the freindly has the upper hand.
Just ignore them, if people want a duel, they can go to a dueling arena.
With all that said, I always ask if help is wanted before engaging, if I get no answer I engage the enemy. Even when I do that, I still get complaintes for interfering. So you cannot win, no matter what you do.
Just have fun, remember it is a game, and that there are always people out there that live to be annoyed.
Yeah, but, it goes back to why you play the game and respect of others. If the two guys were having fun fighting it out in the MA there is really no point in shooting the bad guy. People say its the MA not the DA, etc etc etc, but what do you really accomplish by pulling the trigger for a second or two?
If I see a 1 vs 1 away from the crowds, you can call for help all you want. It's not coming unless you are fighting a BK. Then it is my duty to steal their kill :furious
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I think you're making this whole ordeal up.
You could prove me wrong by posting a screenie or film with the alleged perpetrator's name and outburst.
And next time just check 6 him 50 or 60 times...
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Originally posted by dedalos
If I see a 1 vs 1 away from the crowds, you can call for help all you want. It's not coming unless you are fighting a BK.
Heh. Likewise. On the other hand, Humble, anyone who flys in the MA has to expect that people will come to the rescue of their compadres, so I don't understand the guy's outrage, either.
Next time, suggest to him that he would be happier in AvA, please.
- oldman
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Originally posted by kamilyun
I think you're making this whole ordeal up.
You could prove me wrong by posting a screenie or film with the alleged perpetrator's name and outburst.
And next time just check 6 him 50 or 60 times...
Change your sig dweeb. Those guys are still here :noid
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Does no one other than me use VOX in theses situations?
When I see what you saw, I normally click on the VOX and say:
"Hey Shawk, need a hand with that Spit?"
Shawk will normally reply "Nah, I'm fine," and then I just move on to someone else, but I just as frequently can have someone else say, "Yeah, if you could that would be great," and then I'm in.
It really isn't my problem if someone from the other country doesn't like it; if my countryman wants a hand, then at least someone in that "1V1 duel" doesn't think it is truly one on one.
BTW, if I don't get a reply, then one more VOX goes out, and if there's no reply and the countryman looks like he's losing, then I'm in. If it looks like he's winning, I'm out. I've never had a countryman whine to me about my actions by following these rules.
Just enemies. "Mission Accomplished!"
Food for thought.
-Llama
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Next time, suggest to him that he would be happier in AvA, please.
- oldman
:rofl What you want in the AvA is Humble or the guy he killed. Not the guy going nuts, foo :furious
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Originally posted by dedalos
Change your sig dweeb. Those guys are still here :noid
In our skwad? No they're not. And good riddance.
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If I see a some guy having a good 1v1, I usually just let it be. If he calls for help, I'll help, If not, I just let it play out. However, in a furball, I'll take a shot if one presents itself....Reason, If that person doesn't get the kill, and gets killed, I might later be seeing that plane on my six while engaged with someone else. Furballing my nature is not a good place to expect a 1v1....maybe on the outskirts, but is all situational imho. Of course many in the MA feel the are entitled to every plane they see. These people are not fun to fly around, I pay them no attention.
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Originally posted by kamilyun
In our skwad? No they're not. And good riddance.
Still change it. You don't quit our squad. You get kicked out for "not being good enough" :rofl
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh. Likewise. On the other hand, Humble, anyone who flys in the MA has to expect that people will come to the rescue of their compadres, so I don't understand the guy's outrage, either.
Next time, suggest to him that he would be happier in AvA, please.
- oldman
Again this was in furball alley, the spitty had been "bounced" IMO and he was happy to have the help. Further I didnt bounce the fight...I fired a warning shot "across his bow" after he chose to extend and reload not while he was on the spitties 6...
oldman actually that was pretty much old "CT rules" where if a friendly had been engaged by a superior con it was fine to buzz him and then come in...giving the bogie time to adjust to the higher threat. Even in the CT 1 on 1's were normally of relatively even starts to be "protected" {obviously the friendly can wave you off as well}
Kamiyun I dont see any reason to post the clip
Whats funny is I just flew a few in the MA and Wadke bounced me...
Then I flew on out and bounced him...and he killed me (actually I caught a wingtip but it was his fault:eek: )...then I caught him roughly even and he ventilated my a-20 again (got out and got a spit before engines quit on me)...caught him again in a P-40 and he reversed my bounce and thumped me...
Just great flying by an uber stick...
Had wadke been the pony he'd have killed me and the spitty:)
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Humble just put him on squelch in the arena and on ignore here. There's always going to be somebody who doesn't like what you fly, how you play, or the fact that you aren't doing everything possible to enhance their gaming experience. And some will get ignorant with the name calling and attitudes. Its the anonymity of the Internet you know, its gives some of these characters big muscles.
The sad thing is this was probably an adult person with the VOX attitude. No doubt another one who "doesn't care about stats" but is always looking up the stats of others.:lol To some this is all very serious stuff.
Ive met some great people after duels when a would spawn a discussion of the encounter and the tactics. Good grief, if I ever get to the point when I take a cartoon gunfight that serious then its time to hang up my cartoon bomber keys.
Dont let one man child ruin your day. The game is just to much fun for that.
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Originally posted by Tiger
so let me get this straight. You were flying, an enemy was flying, you both had guns, you killed him...
Nope, don't see a problem here.
LMAO!!!! TRUE TRUE TRUE!!!!
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Originally posted by MajIssue
LMAO!!!! TRUE TRUE TRUE!!!!
If it's red, it's dead
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Just send them a "ROFL" when they complain about 'picking' and then ignore them. For anyone to expect to be left alone in that situation is having the cart before the horse when a visit to the DA would avoid the problem.
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Humble,
Was it the enemy Pony that was having the fit or was it the friendly Spit that was having the fit ?
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Originally posted by Chalenge
Just send them a "ROFL" when they complain about 'picking' and then ignore them. For anyone to expect to be left alone in that situation is having the cart before the horse when a visit to the DA would avoid the problem.
Nop, the proper response is "WooooooWOooooooo"
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Originally posted by dedalos
Nop, the proper response is "WooooooWOooooooo"
I thought it was waaaaaaaaaaaaa.
It's the MA's. I dive in on any fight unless they ask me specifically to stay out (then I will) and I don't ever mind someone else jumping into my fight (If they ask I might say I've got it under control but my usual response is "Whatever you wanna do").
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I thought it was waaaaaaaaaaaaa.
It's the MA's. I dive in on any fight unless they ask me specifically to stay out (then I will) and I don't ever mind someone else jumping into my fight (If they ask I might say I've got it under control but my usual response is "Whatever you wanna do").
That's one of the reasons that I rarely go to the LW arenas.
Way to many "heros" thinking that I need their help while I am behind someones 3-9 line working for a guns solution and sweep in a pick off the guy that I just worked like mad to get into a favorable position.
It is far better to ask first, than to rely on someone who may be so busy that they can't say ... "please stay out" ... or know that you are dropping from your perch to pick ... and why would one pick when they can see that their countryman is in a favorable position ? ... I just don't get it.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
That's one of the reasons that I rarely go to the LW arenas.
Way to many "heros" thinking that I need their help while I am behind someones 3-9 line working for a guns solution and sweep in a pick off the guy that I just worked like mad to get into a favorable position.
It is far better to ask first, than to rely on someone who may be so busy that they can't say ... "please stay out" ... or know that you are dropping from your perch to pick ... and why would one pick when they can see that their countryman is in a favorable position ? ... I just don't get it.
Bah, you should have been in the DA at the 'furball' area to hear them :rofl
163, 262, and 51 vs a spit "Nice!!!! Good shot!!!! I love it!!" to the 262 screaming in to pick the spit
"Can someone please engage this Temp so I can kill his arse?"
The high fives and bragging continued to no end after every pick or gang
:rofl
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Originally posted by SlapShot
That's one of the reasons that I rarely go to the LW arenas.
Way to many "heros" thinking that I need their help while I am behind someones 3-9 line working for a guns solution and sweep in a pick off the guy that I just worked like mad to get into a favorable position.
It is far better to ask first, than to rely on someone who may be so busy that they can't say ... "please stay out" ... or know that you are dropping from your perch to pick ... and why would one pick when they can see that their countryman is in a favorable position ? ... I just don't get it.
Well, I'm not one of those who comes screaming in in front of you blocking your shot (unless I am on a perch and see someone running with seperation) or one who shoots over your shoulder.
If I'm engaging it's usually painfully obvious to everyone concerned.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Bah, you should have been in the DA at the 'furball' area to hear them :rofl
163, 262, and 51 vs a spit "Nice!!!! Good shot!!!! I love it!!" to the 262 screaming in to pick the spit
"Can someone please engage this Temp so I can kill his arse?"
The high fives and bragging continued to no end after every pick or gang
:rofl
Ahhh ... so the DA Furball area is going titsup with griefers like the last time that caused HT to turn killshooter back on ?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Humble,
Was it the enemy Pony that was having the fit or was it the friendly Spit that was having the fit ?
The pony had the hissyfit....
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Originally posted by humble
The pony had the hissyfit....
LOL ... now I understand.
So he was trying to tell you that you "stole" a kill from a friendly ... who was in trouble. I think it was more like ... he was pissed that he didn't get a chance to kill a floundering Spit.
Not surprised at the reaction ... very typical of the LW attitude ... way too many people, wound way too tight.
Sounds like you did exactly what I might have done.
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Originally posted by Tiger
If it's red, it's dead
You got that right! Kill stealing? Shooting a con in flames is kill stealing. Helping a countryman clear his or her 6 isn't. The situation brought up here ISN'T stealing a kill, it was an illistration of the saying "no good deed should go unpunished".:aok
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Slap I didnt view it as even a grey area. When he 1st called me a POS on 200 I gave him a yup and a smile sign. None of like to be caught "down and dirty" and venting is normal. From my perspective he was hunting the egress route from the furball and engaging a guy RTB (just speculation on my part here).
To me thats fair game either way. TeeAir "picked" my a-20 the previous hop and a zipcode in a zeke got me after I got the pony. It's simply the reality of a furball...
What suprised me was that he kept chirping 5 minutes later. If I pick a guys kill its a mistake 95% of the time (I'll pick some guys just because). I wont intervene in a 1 on 1 without asking and sometimes even if asked (again some guys dont deserve it). I'll complain when picked/ganged just like most (not all)....U vent your spleen and you move on.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Ahhh ... so the DA Furball area is going titsup with griefers like the last time that caused HT to turn killshooter back on ?
I am more worried about the him trying to fix it again :rofl
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You know, I swear there are many more people in this game willing to type anything they can on 200. I really enjoy the idea of having a community channel, unfortunately we have to deal with the idiots to....and it seems like there are many many more now-a-days. About 3-4 weeks ago, last time I flew before today:), I had some idiot calling me a dweeb because "I HO'd" him. I shot him from dead six, and no one else came at him from the front. I think there are also some of the same complaints about "gameplay" from people who have no idea, but of course, why would that stop them. The only thing is, now there are many more of them to "listen" to.
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lol pluck, and everyone thought it would simmer down after school let back in.......:D
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Originally posted by captkaos
Yes, when in trouble everyone wants you to clear their six, or otherwise get them out of trouble. However, heaven forbid that you engage when the freindly has the upper hand.
Just ignore them, if people want a duel, they can go to a dueling arena.
With all that said, I always ask if help is wanted before engaging, if I get no answer I engage the enemy. Even when I do that, I still get complaintes for interfering. So you cannot win, no matter what you do.
Just have fun, remember it is a game, and that there are always people out there that live to be annoyed.
I do the same too... It may well be the MA but that doesn't mean you have to be a rude stunninghunk and come charging in on someone else's fun.
It gets frustrating when you're fighting a Spit 16 1 v 1, trading blows, fighting really hard, then you force your advantage and have the shot lined up....... just about to lay the gunsight over his wing.... and BOOM... some arsehat dives in from 5k above and behind you to shoot them down from right under your guns.
Yes, it's the MA but you're flying with people and it never hurts to have manners with people.
A lot of people would do well to remember this.
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There are some simple courtesies that players should extend to each other. Jumping in to steal a kill from a player who has worked hard to bleed down an enemy fighter is simply unkind. Moreover, it virtually guarantees that the offending player will get no assistance from that other pilot, should he need it. What goes around certainly comes around.
You can cover another player, standing by to assist if needed. That's how teammates should fly.
Tonight presented a perfect example. A buddy was up in a P-38J and was tangling with an F4U-4. I was about 3k distant in my P-38J. I watched the fight and saw that the F4U-4 pilot had hit one of my buddy's engines and was gaining angles. At that point, I intervened and clobbered the Corsair before he could finish off my friend. Remarkably, the Corsair driver was exceptionally gracious. MadBeaver....
Be liberal with a check 6. If you see trouble, speak up and keep other players informed of the enemy. Avoid stealing kills. Be a team player and you'll gain respect and friends. Just as importantly, these guys will return the favor when you need it. That old principle of sowing and reaping never fails.
My regards,
Widewing
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Courteous players certainly make the game much funner. Being a new player I always evaluate posts such as this to "learn the game" and adapt my play to the "older vet standards" I guess you could say. So thanks for the post humble I like how you handled it personally.
I have made my mistakes, and will make more, of squeezing the trigger during the excitement when I shouldn't have or making a snide comment when I should have just chalked it up and got a new plane. All I can do is apologize.
I have found that; you are going to get HO'ed, you're going to get gang banged, you're going to get kills stolen, you're going to get vulched landing etc.... All one can hope for is to play a respectable game with your morals and values and if you get accused of something, rinse it out here with the vets and adapt if needed.
Humble
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Personally, I think what you did was fine Snaphook, and is one of the main reasons why the MA IS so much fun.
It's fun because it's so random. You never know if you're going to get away with fighting the one on one, or whether somebody else is going to join the fray. You never know if the next guy you run into is going to try for some "quality" manuevering, or is going to go straight for the HO. You never know if the next guy is going to be a seasoned vet or a newbie.
Imagine how boring this game would be if all of our fights started (and ended) co-alt, co-E, nose-nose guns cold, 1v1, same or similar planes, etc...
The element of surprise (confusion?) and the required level of SA is what makes the fights fun.
For that matter, outside of a scripted fight in the DA against known adversaries- is it even possible to have a truly "fair" one vs one? I doubt it, at least not on a regular basis. One opponent will always have some small (or medium, or large) advantage over the other, even if it's not apparant. A fight between opponents of unmatched skill is the norm, and is far from "fair". Would a 1v1 basketball game with Michael Jordan vs a high school basketball player be fair? Wouldn't it be more evenly matched if MJ played against at least 2 high school players (or 5)? Ever wonder why so few sports are televised as 1v1's? How boring would they be?? At least with a team you can balance skill levels a little better.
Look at it this way- you actually gave the pony pilot a golden opportunity! He could have prevailed, beaten you both, and gloated! Maybe even a PWN'ed message on 200! How can you PWN someone if you don't start from a disadvantage?
It's not your fault he failed, you gave him the opportunity... He should salute you for that!
MtnMan
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Guy had a bad day at work ... his wife was chewing his arse ... his kids were crawling around under the desk .... dog pooped on the floor during the engagement .... cat peed in his tennis shoes .... there was an earthquake .... a typhoon .....
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I would add that had the pony been disadvantaged, or had the fight appeared about equal, I would not join in. That would be legitimate cause to yell "ganger" in my eyes.
Imagine how embarassed Michael Jordan would be if he needed another player on his side to beat the high school kid. Downright shameful! Now, I would see no disgrace in the the high school kid asking for, or expecting, help from another player. That would still be "fair" in my eyes.
Two high ponies (or 3, or 4...) vs one low plane? Unfair.
One high pony vs 3 or 4 (or more) low planes? Fair. A situation with 2 or 3 high planes vs many lower planes is also "fair" in my eyes. The lower planes still have some definate options in this case.
With the pony at an advantage over the spit you mentioned, had he seen you as the larger threat, he would have been better off to switch his attention to you first. Maybe even dragging you away from the spit a bit if he needed to. For him not to, and to stay fixated on the spit was an error in my opinion.
MtnMan
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Originally posted by pluck
You know, I swear there are many more people in this game willing to type anything they can on 200. I really enjoy the idea of having a community channel, unfortunately we have to deal with the idiots to....and it seems like there are many many more now-a-days. About 3-4 weeks ago, last time I flew before today:), I had some idiot calling me a dweeb because "I HO'd" him. I shot him from dead six, and no one else came at him from the front. I think there are also some of the same complaints about "gameplay" from people who have no idea, but of course, why would that stop them. The only thing is, now there are many more of them to "listen" to.
that's why i turned 200 off, so I can fly as bad as I want and not have to hear about it. Country channel is another story though, I can only squelch these idiots, but usually to late to avoid their idiocracy(which is one funny effin film in it's own right).