Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ssDruid on October 23, 2007, 09:37:43 PM

Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: ssDruid on October 23, 2007, 09:37:43 PM
Why doesn't HTC remove the enemy vehicle icons so that it will make it as hard as it was in World War II to see ground vehicles on the move. Leave the friendly icons but remove the enemy.
This would eliminate all the chances of actually being dive bombed because it would make it that much more difficult to see the enemy vehicles. Would require better tactics while in the air and on the ground.

ssDRUID
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: Larry on October 23, 2007, 09:52:46 PM
The same reason they wont take icons off planes.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: Blooz on October 23, 2007, 09:56:44 PM
The icon is already "under" the vehicle which makes it very tough to see and the icon doesn't become visable at all until you are very close range (1200yds I think?).
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: TUXC on October 23, 2007, 09:58:56 PM
A moving vehicle would leave a nice cloud of dust which could be spotted from the air at low altitude if the ground was dry....
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: Arlo on October 23, 2007, 10:05:25 PM
"Why doesn't HTC help me hide my tank from those mean old planes better?"

;)
Title: Re: Vehicle Icons
Post by: E25280 on October 23, 2007, 10:14:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ssDruid
Why doesn't HTC remove the enemy vehicle icons so that it will make it as hard as it was in World War II to see ground vehicles on the move. Leave the friendly icons but remove the enemy.
This would eliminate all the chances of actually being dive bombed because it would make it that much more difficult to see the enemy vehicles. Would require better tactics while in the air and on the ground.

ssDRUID
You've got it backwards.  The icons are there to make it as easy to spot the enemy as it would be in WWII.  A tank sitting in the open in AH at 1500 yards looks like so much ground clutter, when in RL that tank would stand out plain as day.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: lyric1 on October 23, 2007, 11:14:00 PM
I can pick gv's out from over 15k before I drop on them no icons are showing from that height.
Title: Re: Vehicle Icons
Post by: NoBaddy on October 23, 2007, 11:17:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ssDruid
This would eliminate all the chances of actually being dive bombed because it would make it that much more difficult to see the enemy vehicles.



Not to be too rude...but DUH!!!

Read what you wrote above and you have the answer to your question. :)

It's a combat game...not a hide 'n' seek game. :D
Title: No need to be rude
Post by: ssDruid on October 24, 2007, 08:13:26 AM
Obviously it is a combat game. But as in real life if you have ever stood in the hatch of a tank as a tank commander and conducted major maneuvers on a combined arms level either in peacetime or combat, with both fixed winged and rotary wing aircraft, it is very easy to move through both the open ground and cluttered terrain such as woods and urban areas and not be detected.
Sure vehicles leave dust trails but only if the maneuver area is dry and the specific conditions are right. A vehicle that is moving at a track pad creep will not "kick up" any dust. While others that are moving at faster speeds will leave a very large visible dust trail, all based on current weather conditions. High winds create less dust. Rain reduces the chances of any dust clouds.
Let's see if I can make it any clearer--paint the target so it can be identified and destroyed. Obviously there were no laser designators in the World War Two theater of operations, Pacific or European.
I am by all means not complaining. I think this is one of the best combat simulation games out today. Just trying to make it more realistic that is all.

ssDRUID
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: FiLtH on October 24, 2007, 08:19:39 AM
I see the dots long before the icons.
Title: Re: No need to be rude
Post by: The Fugitive on October 24, 2007, 08:20:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ssDruid
.................Let's see if I can make it any clearer--paint the target so it can be identified and destroyed. Obviously there were no laser designators in the World War Two theater of operations, Pacific or European............

ssDRUID


No but there were ground support with spotters and such. The reason you were bombed, is someone yelled out "there are GVs all over the place at such and such a base". Hvys moved in "looking" for the GVs, spotted and destroyed same.

Sounds about right to me. Don't think anything needs to be fixed.
Title: Re: No need to be rude
Post by: TUXC on October 24, 2007, 09:23:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ssDruid

Sure vehicles leave dust trails but only if the maneuver area is dry and the specific conditions are right. A vehicle that is moving at a track pad creep will not "kick up" any dust. While others that are moving at faster speeds will leave a very large visible dust trail, all based on current weather conditions. High winds create less dust. Rain reduces the chances of any dust clouds.


How many tanks do you see creeping along in first gear in the MA as opposed to full speed? How often does it rain or is it windy in the MA? If you're stopped in a forest you'd be tough to spot from the air, but if you're rumbling along full tilt in your 60ton tiger in open terrain near an enemy base, chances are you might get noticed.

Icons are already disabled for gv to gv combat and only work at fairly short range (1500yds) for aircraft. Usually if a plane is low enough to see a gv icon it has to climb for an accurate dive bombing attack.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: TwentyFo on October 24, 2007, 09:34:08 AM
I've killed gv's cruising in bombers at 13K before. Rarely, do I see the icon before the vehicle. Only instances where icon helps, is when a gv is hiding in town (inside a building). I don't think removing icon would help gv'ers that much.
Title: Re: Vehicle Icons
Post by: MajIssue on October 24, 2007, 10:09:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ssDruid
Why doesn't HTC remove the enemy vehicle icons so that it will make it as hard as it was in World War II to see ground vehicles on the move. Leave the friendly icons but remove the enemy.
This would eliminate all the chances of actually being dive bombed because it would make it that much more difficult to see the enemy vehicles. Would require better tactics while in the air and on the ground.

ssDRUID


Interesting Druid... The system as it is now does favor aircraft over GVs. The thing that bothers me is that when a GV is "perfectly" concealed in a bombed bldg or in trees/vegetation the icon is clearly visible from the air even when the GV is stationary with engine off. When I'm trying to kill GVs this is good... When I'm driving a GV this in NOT so good! I recently started to up gvs more often and have had alot of fun in an area that I pretty much ignored before... (thanks in part to my exDAT CO ssDRUID)

In recent tours it seems that there is a trend toward more GV play and there are obviously some tweeks that will improve that aspect of the game. I would suggest that when a GV is stationary with engine off it's icon is off as well.

:aok
[edited for spelling]
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: Carwash on October 24, 2007, 10:10:02 AM
If you want to see what AH would look like without the icons, turn them off.  Shift I or something like that.  I don't know about GVs, but with aircraft you can't tell shat from shinola at D600.  The icons are there to identify friend from foe and bring about combat.  

If you want a game where you have to visually identify your target, try WWII online.  Be prepared to be bored and frustrated however.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: MWL on October 24, 2007, 10:18:40 AM
Greetings,

  Actually, moving vehicles are quickly picked up by both fixed and rotary wing - dust or no dust.  The movement is what catches the eye.
  Relook at the actual history of WWII, TAC AIR was down right devistating when used on armored formations; Falaise Gap, the rush through France, the Bulge (once the weather broke) and units were moving in open terrain.
  It is unfortunate the GVs can't hide in a bldg or under a tree, but the low level required to see the icon is reasonably fair.

Regards,
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: BaldEagl on October 24, 2007, 11:10:02 AM
Removing icons does nothing.  I can spot a GV from 10K no problem.  I don't ever see an icon until I'm already dropping my bomb and pulling out (~3K).
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: Tilt on October 24, 2007, 01:04:52 PM
I agree.....

we see dots earlier than icons

it would be neat if the cloud of dust got exponentially greater as the  vehicle got faster

but  enemy gv icons telling us that its a flak and not a panzer or its hidden in these trees just here.............

are gay IMO
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: Ghastly on October 24, 2007, 04:32:50 PM
How do you guys see them from such distances?  On my system, they appear to "blink out" and no longer render at about 3K.

Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: BaldEagl on October 24, 2007, 04:41:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghastly
How do you guys see them from such distances?  On my system, they appear to "blink out" and no longer render at about 3K.



Turn Gound Detail to max in Options/Graphic Settings.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: MWL on October 24, 2007, 06:39:16 PM
Greetings

============
  but enemy gv icons telling us that its a flak and not a panzer or its hidden in these trees just here.............
============

Now, that is a valid point.  Watched and A10 Gun Camera once, the best he could tell is that it was an armored vehicle, it was moving that-a-way and that it was a target.

  What we couldn't see was enough detail to conduct Basic Vehicle ID (Friend or Foe) let alone identify model or type.

Regards,
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: goober69 on October 25, 2007, 04:29:11 AM
"Turn Gound Detail to max in Options/Graphic Settings"

no offence but

turning the icons off

 would suck for all the players whos computers cant handle graphics turned up.  IMO
 i personaly cant see anything unless im within 1k .
i have to have icons . explains why i dont kill gvs or use gvs much.
if i do anything to my graphics i crash out too lol so yea im really wanting a new computer.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: BlauK on October 27, 2007, 11:36:13 AM
Human eye can see much more accurately than what the computer screen can show. Then add the stereo sight and much wider human FOV into the equation....

The icons are there simply to replace the lacking visual information.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: AAolds on October 27, 2007, 12:41:28 PM
Why not remove all enemy icons and be done with it.  

Oh, while were at it.  Lets abolish the knits side so they can join up with the Bish since they team up so much anyways.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: Bronk on October 27, 2007, 12:47:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



Anyone else read it this way?
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: BaldEagl on October 27, 2007, 01:03:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by goober69
"Turn Gound Detail to max in Options/Graphic Settings"

no offence but

turning the icons off

 would suck for all the players whos computers cant handle graphics turned up.  IMO
 i personaly cant see anything unless im within 1k .
i have to have icons . explains why i dont kill gvs or use gvs much.
if i do anything to my graphics i crash out too lol so yea im really wanting a new computer.


I bet your computers better than mine:

Dell Dimension
600 Meg PIII
512K PC100/133 SDRAM
64 Meg NVidea G-Force MX-440
Soundblaster Live Value
2x120 Gig HD

You probably just need to clean your system up if it can't handle turning up ground detail.  I lose about 2-3 FPS turning ground detail from min to max.

I do sypmathise though because I have to leave object detail at min or it kills my FR (normally between 25-35 in most situations).
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: kilz on October 27, 2007, 05:04:10 PM
the only thing they need to fix with the gv icon is when you flip upside down you lose the icon.
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: AWwrgwy on October 28, 2007, 03:06:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
Removing icons does nothing.  I can spot a GV from 10K no problem.  I don't ever see an icon until I'm already dropping my bomb and pulling out (~3K).


I -used to- be able to see the dots from 10k.  With the latest terraing graphics change everything looks like a bush.

Bushes don't have icons.  Therfore, drop on the non-bushes.  If not for the icons I'd be diving on more bushes than I already am.


wrngway
Title: Vehicle Icons
Post by: Patches1 on October 28, 2007, 03:25:12 AM
Bushes have Icons!

It says...'President' ...above them   ;-)
Title: Re: Re: Vehicle Icons
Post by: trigger2 on October 28, 2007, 03:38:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by E25280
You've got it backwards.  The icons are there to make it as easy to spot the enemy as it would be in WWII.  A tank sitting in the open in AH at 1500 yards looks like so much ground clutter, when in RL that tank would stand out plain as day.


Another thing.
In WWII most of the time when planes came in to hit tanks, they had their exact coordinates.
Wether it was to keep em from approaching a held city or to defend a platoon of troops, they had sources on the ground telling em where they were at, in  AHII, don't think we really have that much...