Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AquaShrimp on October 24, 2007, 12:50:56 AM
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Lets see how much we collectively know about the F-14. I'll start with a few:
Control of the F-14 could actually be transferred to a radar operator onboard the carrier. He could then guide and fly the plane.
Part of the wing was made of fabric, because it needed flexibility due to it being variable geometry.
Above mach 1, a pair of small canards would automatically extend from the air intakes, to give the front half of the plane lift and keep it level.
The F-14 was the hardest aircraft to land on a carrier (post 1970) due to it being unstable in the pitch axis at low speed.
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It was a sexy mother
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It had the highest accident rate of any Navy Jet...
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It will do a 4g, inverted dive with a Mig 28.
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The F-18 Super Hornet replaced it?
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YOU'VE LOST THAT LOVING FEELIN,
WO'O'O' THAT LOVING FEEELIN',
YOU'VE LOST THAT LOVING FEELIN',
NOW ITS GONE, GONE, GONE
WO,O,O,O,O
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The wing box was a solid piece of titanium
It was the only aircraft able to fire the AIM-54 Phoenix missile
It could track 24 targets and engage six at the same time
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Originally posted by Stang
It will do a 4g, inverted dive with a Mig 28.
A 4g inverted dive with a Mig 28 huh? And what were you doing there?
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communicating.
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They can FFSSSHHHHH if you FFSSSSHHHH and if you don't FFFFSHHH as fast as possible you could FFFFFHHHH and die horribly. :o
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l249/Fenin_2006/WHATWASITHINKING.jpg)
Edit: Image. :D
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Originally posted by JB88
communicating.
communicating?
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You know.... keeping up foreign relations, you know uh, i was giving him the bird....... Take it from here..
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Originally posted by Slash27
communicating?
Communicating. Keeping up foriegn relations. You know, giving him the bird.
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You know the finger...
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Originally posted by LEADPIG
You know the finger...
Yes, I know " the finger LEADPIG".:rolleyes:
I knew watching that movie 243 times would pay off some day.:D
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Tower, this is Ghost rider requesting a flyby.
:D
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Originally posted by JB88
Communicating. Keeping up foriegn relations. You know, giving him the bird.
ROFL!
The movie...LOL...
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Originally posted by Wes14
Tower, this is Ghost rider requesting a flyby.
:D
negative ghostrider. the pattern is full.
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They are all in the bone yard.
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If you hit the brakes, the bad guy will fly right by.
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nicknamed the tomcat
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Originally posted by Stang
It will do a 4g, inverted dive with a Mig 28.
Actually Stang, it can do a NEGATIVE 4g, inverted dive. ;)
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Maybe i'm slow to get this but there is no such thing as a -4g dive. If you are upside down and you pull (to dive) you are going to be putting on positive g. If you are upside down and you push you are going to be experiencing negative g.
This some kind of Topgun joke along with the fact that there is no Mig 28 ??
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Originally posted by LEADPIG
Maybe i'm slow to get this but there is no such thing as a -4g dive. If you are upside down and you pull (to dive) you are going to be putting on positive g. If you are upside down and you push you are going to be experiencing negative g.
This some kind of Topgun joke along with the fact that there is no Mig 28 ??
sure there is it was cleverly disguised as an F-5E
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The F-4 and F-8 were much better looking
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-The F-14 used the engines and radar that were originally designed for the F-111. The engines proved to be extremely prone to compressor stalls.
-The F-14 was not a 9g fighter. It was limited to +7.5g and later +6.5g as the airframes aged.
-As seen in Topgun, when the F-14 was in an unrecoverable flat spin, there was not enough airflow to sufficiently separate the canopy from airframe. Several RIOs were actually killed by striking the canopy.
-The F-14 proved to be a very capable bomber in the first Gulf War, and later in the Serbian war it acted as both bomber and forward air controller. F-14 controlled strike units had the honor having a much lower friendly-fire rate than Air force units.
-The 8 foot spacing between the F-14s engines were a direct result of lessons learned in the F-4, in which the destruction of one engine usually threw enough debris and shrapnel to destroy the other engine. Ironically, this wide spacing is what caused such tremendous yaw during engine failure in the F-14, causing its high accident rate.
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Would not thrust vectoring, if it was ever to be incorporated in the F-14, get it out of a flat spin?
"there are hearts breaking all over this world..."
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by Slash27
It was a sexy mother
Word
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We'll never know now!
- the F-14A+ was the first American fighter to be able to cat without being in burner
-The Phoenix missile was never fired in anger. All opponents ran from F-14s.
- the F-14D had a new radar the APG-71 and could not fire the Phoenix. It used AIM120s. It also had an advanced avionics package. Was replaced by the F-18E/F Superhornet
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All opponents ran from F-14s.
Except those 2 Lybian Mig-23's... I believe they shot a missle first... kinda hard to do when your running away.
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It's big and shinny:cool:
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Required 40-55 maintenance hours per flight hour.
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Originally posted by VWE
Except those 2 Lybian Mig-23's... I believe they shot a missle first... kinda hard to do when your running away.
They shot Sparrow and Sidewinders no Phoenix. They weren't even carrying Phoenix on that sortie. The MIGs two hostile turns and were destroyed before they could turn tail. Google the gun cam video. It's out there now.
The Phoenix was an extremely heavy missile. They didn't carry it unless the threat dictated. You've seen the pictures with the F-14 carrying six Phoenix. It cannot cat with that weight. That was a land based photo op. The pilots were reluctant to shoot it because of it's flight profile. It came off the rail and shot up to 70k right in front of them causing temporary vision problems.
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When the Aim-54 got old, it could explode on launch due to minute cracks forming in the solid propellant. This is one of the reasons it was retired before the F-14.
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No dual control version was ever made for the F-14, so the pilot starts to learn how to fly the machine using other aircraft and simulators.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-14_Tomcat
I was on a CVN GW when F14 caught a wire and ejected the pilot ( plane strung on the wide with full afterburner). RIO wouldn't do ****... neither could anyone else :) They waited till fuel burned out...
There were no control in the back afaik.
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The F-14 had a TV cam in the nose and could look at targets like 70 miles away or more if the conditions were right.
The USS Hornet Museum in Alameda CA, has a complete F-14A that was flown to SFO and demilled for the museum.
When I get Married on the Hornet next year, the F-14 will be next to the stage with the TBM they have. :D
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
When the Aim-54 got old, it could explode on launch due to minute cracks forming in the solid propellant. This is one of the reasons it was retired before the F-14.
Huh? Where'd you get that one from?
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Originally posted by wooly15
Actually Stang, it can do a NEGATIVE 4g, inverted dive. ;)
It can, but in this instance, the mig was in negative g's, the Tomcat positive.
;)
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
The F-14 had a TV cam in the nose and could look at targets like 70 miles away or more if the conditions were right.
You could get that kind of range on a bomber size target but not a fighter size target. :cool:
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seeing one makes people want to listen to Kenny Loggins...
:huh
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US sold a bunch to Iran which are still currently in service I believe.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
The F-4 and F-8 were much better looking
:furious
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Originally posted by MotorOil1
US sold a bunch to Iran which are still currently in service I believe.
All are ground due to no spare parts. Thats why all the F-14 parts are guarded or being destroyed because a group was caught trying to smuggle parts to Iran.
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The F-14 had more moving parts than any other aircraft. They cost three times as much to maintain than an F-18D. Guess that's why they killed it.
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According to the pilots of the "Black Ace" squadron, who flew F-14s in the Serbian air war, on each catapault launch something on the F-14 would break. Most of the time this was a non-critical component, but every so often they would have to abort the mission because of it.
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F14 was the star in Top Gun, NOT Tom Cruise.
Top Gun was a B movie
F14 was the only plane in active service to use the Phoenix missile, but the missile was not made for the F14. Quiz: What plane was the Phoenix originally designed for?
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F-111
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Originally posted by Twolf2
All are ground due to no spare parts...
Nope. The Iranians are making their own spares, and China is supplying some too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_aZ7qSg0NY
The Iranians even considered starting an F-14 production line, but found it too expencive. Instead they went for an updated F-5 design:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bttQYIrPzJ0
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The F-14 had a turning radius the size of West Virginia.
If you walked by and farted next to it, something on it would break.
BTW... the Iranian F-14's are still active, they just don't fly them that often due to the shortage of spare parts. You'd think someone over there that I am sure was educated at MIT on Uncle Sam's dollar could reverse engineer those 'special' parts and make a suitable replacement. jesus the thing is 70's technology, they ought to actualyl be able to improve it.
How ironic would it be for a US Fighter to be shot down by Iranian F-14???
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
F-111
Actually it was the North American XF-108 Rapier that was the intended user of the Aim 47 missile that in turn became the aim 54 phoenix after the cancellation of the Rapier.
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Found this interesting quote from an unconfirmed website on the F14:
"Despite the Iranian regime's official anti-Communist stance (the Communist Party is officially banned in Iran), there are persistent rumors that one or perhaps several IRIAF F-14A were delivered to the Soviet Union in exchange for other arms assistance. At least one Iranian F-14A crew has reportedly defected to the Soviet Union. There is every reason to believe that the F-14A, its AWG-9 fire control system, and its Phoenix missiles were completely compromised at this time. An examination of the Phoenix supposedly helped the Soviets to build the Vympel R-33 (known in the West as AA-9 Amos) long-range missiles which arm the MiG-31 Foxhound. However, Gennadiy Sokolovskiy of the Vympel Design Bureau denies that the R-33 was based on the AIM-54 Phoenix, maintaining that he has never actually seen a live Phoenix. "
Everything I've seen has been unconfirmed if the F14 is still in operation with Iran or not. If it is, it won't be many.
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impossible, the russians have never copied any USA design, they have invented everything themselves. Starting with the TU4.
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Originally posted by john9001
impossible, the russians have never copied any USA design, they have invented everything themselves. Starting with the TU4.
even the internetski? (known in the west as the internet)
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Originally posted by Nilsen
even the internetski? (known in the west as the internet)
Dah!
It was invented by Almitri Gorbechov
(http://www.al-gore-2004.org/goregallery/citizen_president/09292001k.jpg)
:p
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Originally posted by JB88
negative ghostrider. the pattern is full.
(http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f14/f14_21.jpg)
:)
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
When the Aim-54 got old, it could explode on launch due to minute cracks forming in the solid propellant. This is one of the reasons it was retired before the F-14.
That sounds curiously like the ASTAC from Red Storm Rising - with the anti-satellite missile blowing up randomly because the propellant was beyond expiration.
Name source please.
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Just go to google and type "Aim-54 phoenix propellant cracks". Then take your pick.
The article I read said that Navy inspection teams found cracks in over 50% of the Aim-54C's in storage.
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I found references to normal guys like you and me having concern about cracks forming, but no primary sources (i.e. USN). Solid propellant will crack with age - but doesn't necessarily lead up to a motor casing failure. And even so, reloading them isn't a big deal - they've got plenty of ammonium percolate laying around for the shuttles use.
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Its the one plane that's one step short of a robotech fighter ;)
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only designated fighter with variable wing?
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Just go to google and type "Aim-54 phoenix propellant cracks". Then take your pick.
The article I read said that Navy inspection teams found cracks in over 50% of the Aim-54C's in storage.
Considering the AIM-54 could use 2 different rocket motors, Aerojet Mk 60 or Rocketdyne Flexadyne Mk 47 long-burn-time solid-fuel rocket, if a crack was found it would be no big deal to replace the motor however, I have found no official sources stating that cracks in the solid fuel propellant was ever an issue.
There were however issues with the warhead fuse.
The AIM-54 has had a history of delays and, more recently, quality control problems. Production schedules have not been met, especially since a Department of Defense (DoD) decision in 1984 to withhold payments, a decision which closed down the line for several months. At one point, 240 of 318 AIM-54Cs delivered to the Navy under FY1982/FY1983 contracts, were in storage because of a unreliable fuze. A redesign of the FSU-10/A fuze was tested on 11 Sep 1987 and failed to explode, prompting the cancellation of further flight tests and imposing further delays in deploying a fully capable AIM-54C. The stockpile of completed, but fuzeless, missiles grew to over 500 before a new version of the FSU-10 fuze was accepted in the summer of 1988 with deliveries commencing soon afterward.
An August 1988 DOD inspector general report revealed that the Navy paid Hughes Aircraft more than 3 times the estimated cost to produce the AIM-54C. The report also criticized the selection of Raytheon as a second source and the scheduling of full competition beginning in 1989. The auditors contended that the Raytheon missile has not been adequately tested, and because testing was not scheduled to be completed until early 1990, it would be unwise to award Raytheon a portion of the 1989 contract.
Despite these concerns, the Navy awarded Raytheon more than half of the missiles to be built (208 to 195) under the 1989 contracts. The FY1990 contract, the last planned, was awarded as a block to Hughes.
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Good thread :aok
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Also i get the feeling that the F-14 was just a more modern version of the P-38. :confused:
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Originally posted by Wes14
Also i get the feeling that the F-14 was just a more modern version of the P-38. :confused:
It did have a long troubled history like the P-38, and it was ALMOST as cool as the 38.
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I know, I give the F-14 a hard time. But I really do think its a gorgeous Aircraft. Just not as gorgeous as the Crusader or Phantom II.
I mean, you cant go wrong with any of these Jolly Rodgers.
VF-84 - F-8C
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/ralphmunnich/vf84f8cusn.jpg)
VF-84 - F-4N
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/ralphmunnich/vf84f4n.jpg)
VF-84 - F-14A
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/ralphmunnich/f14a84z.jpg)
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I agree the F-4 was a good looking plane. but the F8? That thing looks like a deformed large mouth bass. Its smurfy.
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Originally posted by BiGBMAW
only designated fighter with variable wing?
F-111. B1. Interestingly it was the failure of the F-111 for the Navy (too heavy IIRC) that lead to the F-14...
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I agree the F-4 was a good looking plane. but the F8? That thing looks like a deformed large mouth bass. Its smurfy.
Agreed, I always liked the F-4, on the other had I never really liked the F8 but I always favored its smaller cousin...
A-7 Carsair II
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/Airscrew/vought_A-7_CorsairII.jpg)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/Airscrew/a-7.jpg)
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The F-14 usually carried a price of over 600 perkies and would lose an engine after a couple pings from a HOing HurriII.
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F-8, the last gunfighter.
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Originally posted by BiGBMAW
only designated fighter with variable wing?
The MiG-23 was actually the first variable geometry fighter in service. F-111 arguably being a bomber.
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Originally posted by Twolf2
All are ground due to no spare parts. Thats why all the F-14 parts are guarded or being destroyed because a group was caught trying to smuggle parts to Iran.
Wrong.
The iranians managed to keep the F-14 flying even in the first phase of the Iran-Iraq-War, when the spare part delivery was non-existent.
In the 8 year war between Iran and Iraq the US-trained iranian pilots shot down 152 iraqi planes and helicopters. 18 of these kills were not confirmed.
The first kill was done by an IRIAF-F-14 at September 10th 1980, when an iranian F-14 of the 81TFS/TFB.8 shot down an iraqi MiG21.
On October 29th 1980 an US-AWACS plane monitored the kill of a heavy iraqi Tupolev Tu-22 Blinder bomber by an iranian F-14 of TFB8.
The last kill of an iraqui plane by an iranian F-14 was done at June 14th 1988 when a Tomcat of 81TFS/TFB.8 shot down an iraqi Mirage F.1EQ.
The F-14 pilot with the most air-to-air kills was the iranian Major Jalal Zandi of TFB.8 (later TFB.6) of IRIAF with 9 kills according US-analysis and 12 kills claimed by Iran.
Iran lost during the war 8 F-14 by iraqi kills and other because of accidents, attritions and sadly also 2 by friendly fire.
So today only 60 od the 79 delivered F-14 remained in the IRIAF - most of them still flying.
The old desert camouflage (which looked IMHO cooler than the new one today) was replaced with this one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/mattin4/mntymttt.jpg
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Don't put it past the Iranian's to reverse engineer the F-14. They have done it with the Bell 206, UH-1 and AH-1 series of helicopters. These helicopters look, sound and work just like their Bell counter parts, but they are not.
(http://www.waronline.org/mideast/iran-vpk/image007.jpg)
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I don't have access to U.S. Navy journals, so I can't get a primary source document for Aim-54 propellant cracks. But there are enough first and second hand accounts, along with lesser sources that keep mentioning propellant cracks.
I'll tell you this though. Its not a simple matter to just repack 500 two-stage rocket motors for the Aim-54C. Especially not in the days of the military budget crackdown.
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Originally posted by Twolf2
All are ground due to no spare parts. Thats why all the F-14 parts are guarded or being destroyed because a group was caught trying to smuggle parts to Iran.
Not sure if this is true. They were still flying as of about 2 years ago. I haven't looked recently and have no access right now, but it wouldn't suprise me if they're still flying occasionally.
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There is an F-14 data plate on at least one part in the F-15E.
The targeting pod added to the F-14 near the end of it's service life had a much better INS than the jet, but the info couldn't be automatically dumped to the onboard navigation systems due to basic systems incompatibilities.
One of the things that made the super tomcat upgrade so expensive was the complete re-wiring to include a new mil-std data bus that would have made it much easier to upgrade avionics and allow various systems to integrate together. The cost of this, and subsequent short upgrade program, was a huge limiting factor in attempts to extend the F-14 service life since it was difficult to add what is essentially off the shelf hardware like you can with an F-15, F-16, F-18, etc.
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Heres another one:
The body of the F-14 produces 40% of its total lift.
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I'll say this... I don't see how the FA-18 Super Hornet is supposed to replace the F-14 in it's Fleet defence role. You can not replace the Tomcats ability to engage 6 aircraft at a time. And track 24 at the same time, the thing was a massive radar station, with fighter potential, and one Tomcat was a major deterent to a major attack, let alone a squadron of them.
I don't see the Super Hornet having that. Maybe other weapon systems have come up to take the place of that ability. But frankly i don't think you can replace having an airplane with live humans on the scene of a situation.
I think the Navy will have to eventually get a new plane to go along with the Super Hornet, to replace this role.
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Leadpig, the F-35 along with the long range ramjet Aim-120s will do a pretty good job of replacing the F-14.