Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB73 on October 25, 2007, 07:57:23 PM
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I have been working on personal finances for quite a while, and getting close to being stable. once I am I plan on expanding my personal armory.
currently I on a model 94 Taurus .22 9 shot revolver. it is perfect for learning to shoot, and plink away. I have learned how to properly clean and lubricate a gun, and I have taken this revolver apart almost fully and back together as practice getting to know my weapon and how it works.
After much thinking, reading here, and reading other places I have absorbed a LOT of information on guns, and different opinions on them.
Wanting more "power" I have thought about a 9mm, .357, .40, and .45 caliber guns. Originally I bought a revolver for many reasons.
1: it's safe. you can tell extremely easily if it is loaded or not.
2: it has less "mechanics" that a casual owner has to concern themselves with maintaining.
3: you can spin it around like a cowboy for fun (yeah I know a gun is not a toy)
I have decided for the next gun I will be getting an automatic. I do have to worry about the grip size, as I have smaller hands. I have held a .45 with a 15 round magazine, and I could barely hold it. I want a gun that is safe and comfortable for me to shoot, so that is out. I have shot a .40 before and it was fine, though again with a high capacity magazine I couldn't comfortably hold it. I have never shot a 9mm, and never have shot a .357. I have never seen a .357 other than a revolver, so that is out since I want an automatic.
I did hold a .45 with a 9 round magazine at a local gun shop and was really surprised how comfortable it was. it did have a weird safety, a lever on the back of the grip where you had to hold the gun holding down the lever to fire it. I didn't care for that it just felt awkward.
the 9mm is going to be the cheapest to shoot, the .40 not too much more.
From everything I have heard here though I should go with a 1911 .45.
So anyway, I'm not going to afford a Kimber, or any other high priced brand like that. From my understanding a 1911 is a 1911 mechanically, they will all have the same parts, it's just the quality of how those parts fit together (correct me if I am wrong).
In the $500-$700 range what would you recommend? I'd like to get a gun that I can do things with like add dot sights, an under barrel light maybe, rubber grips maybe to make it more comfortable, I don't know what else.
Thanks, and feel free to let me know anything I am missing in my analysis of what gun to get.
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Sig makes 9mm .357s I think.
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I have a 1911 (my Grandfather's service pistol), and for my next gun was thinking about either a Glock or a Springfield. 1911 is manly, but a compact 9mm is pretty handy, which is what I was leaning towards. I've rented 9mm Glocks the last few times I've shot.
New Colts look like they're a bit over the $700 mark, Springfield has their's at $600.
You know, I had mine appraised at just under $700 and it's in pretty good condition (a little pitting). If you shopped around and went to a few gun shows, you might be able to find a used one. I don't know...there's just something about having the real deal that seems cool to me.
I'm sure you'll have lots of advice coming your way on this question though :D
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Taurus Intl PT1911 .45 (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=59&category=Pistol)
For a suggested retail of around $700 it can't really be beat for a 1911 .45 pistol. When you consider that Taurus is also the ONLY firearm company that has a lifetime warranty on their products new or used it's a great deal.
If your worried about grip size though you might want to look at a .380 auto. Small but still packs a decent punch with good ammo (Federal Hydro Shocks work great).
Taurus Intl PT138 .380 (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=31&category=Pistol)
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I bought a Colt 1991A1 Commander for $577. It is not new but very "tight". I shoots where I point it. I don't have any prior experience with the model but really like this one. It has Pachymier grips on it and is all steel. This one's finished was a little worn on the edges. The flat places are still parkarised and there isn't any rust anywhere on it.
It feeds the ammo out of the 7 round clip without any trouble and I bought a new clip made in Italy, Mac-Gain or something like that that holds 8 rounds. It has a plastic follower on it and the rounds feed off of it just fine too.
It does what I wanted it to do and I now have a genuine Colt :)
Mark
P.S. Forgot to mention: It's 45 ACP cal.
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Thinking about asking Santa for a .357. Looking at Taurus, will have to try one at the range.
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Were I in the position, I'd have a Sig or a nice Glock.........as I've used those before (so am familiar with cleaning etc) - plus they fit into my handsize quite nicely, shoot where I want them too, and have enough knock down power without too much over penetration)
Wurzel
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For self defense, the 1911 is an expert's weapon, not exactly what a NDP (Non Dedicated Personnel) needs. It is a single action, meaning you have to confront your opponent with a weapon that is cocked AND has a short, relatively soft trigger pull. And NOT cocking it is a BAD idea. If you still want a 1911 pattern weapon, consider Springfield Armory. Otherwise, if you want a 45 that is double action, get a Sig Sauer P-220. By the way, if you can find a friendly gun shop owner you can buy at http://www.gunbroker.com or http://www.auctionarms.com and get a good deal.
Oh, and I do carry a 1911 pattern 45, it's a ParaOrdnance P-14 45. It has 13 in each magazine and I have two spares. I love it. But I spend a LOT of time with it.
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Taurus Intl PT1911 .45 (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=59&category=Pistol)
For a suggested retail of around $700 it can't really be beat for a 1911 .45 pistol. When you consider that Taurus is also the ONLY firearm company that has a lifetime warranty on their products new or used it's a great deal.
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that looks nice :aok
I am quite happy with my Taurus the construction seems decent.
this may sound dumb, but what is the difference between .45 and .45 ACP ??
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There mere fact that you put the word power in quotation marks, and reason number 3 on your list show me that you're not mature enough to own a gun yet. Perhaps a tazer or can of mace would be better.
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I don't have a 1911 but I have a couple of semis. Being a relative newcomer to more than casually shooting handguns I was very surprised at the difference in accuracy between semis and revolvers. Maybe it's my grip, stance, or something else I am ignorant of but I can shoot revolvers a lot more accurately than my Berettta 92fs and Glock model 21.
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Get a flu shot.
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9mm is pretty weak. .40 cal is a much better round, and it has a fairly short casing so the handgrip for a .40 auto won't be too huge.
I have a couple of .40s, an auto and a single action 6-shooter. They're both easy to shoot.
One big decision you'll have to make however, is what size gun you want. As in physical size. A small gun is easy to conceal and will be better to carry concealed if you plan on doing that, but it'll kick a LOT more. Even a little .32 kicks badly if it's a pocket pistol. A larger gun will be a lot easier to fire and probably more accurate, but it won't be concealable.
I actually would recommend buying two if you plan on carrying. Get a small one and practice with it just enough to be comfortable firing it. And buy a larger one for generic practice and for home defense, where accuracy may be more important than being able to tuck it away behind your belt.
IMHO of course.
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Originally posted by JB73
In the $500-$700 range what would you recommend? I'd like to get a gun that I can do things with like add dot sights, an under barrel light maybe, rubber grips maybe to make it more comfortable, I don't know what else.
Thanks, and feel free to let me know anything I am missing in my analysis of what gun to get.
I think $700 still keeps you in range of a few Kimber models, I'll double check. Also, have you checked out the Springfield XD pistol series? Very nice pistols for sure.
"power"!!
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Get a flu shot.
The AF made me get Flu shots every year and I got the Flu occasionally. Twelve years now since a Flu shot and not the Flu once. I suppose we should keep a few doctors around for life and death situations but do we really need all the drugs they inflict upon us regularly? How did people survive without anti-thisandthat a hundred years ago?
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They died. Our population explosion is partially due to our disease prevention.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
They died. Our population explosion is partially due to our disease prevention.
And so shall we.
Maybe I'm wrong, I'm only an observer in this but it seems there are too many life prolonging but perhaps life inhibiting drugs being prescribed. Life is pain, endure and learn.
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I'm extremely happy with my XD45 (ACP = automatic colt pistol). For me the XD has a more natural angle on the grip than the Glock. XD comes with a lifetime warrantee also comes in different barrel lengths for easier carry. Comes with a nice case, double magazine pouch, tactical holster, speed loader and two 13 round clips. It has a visual cocking indicator and loaded chamber indicator that you can feel in low light or no light conditions. XDs also have an integral rail for your light, laser or bridge.
Glock came out with their own version of 45 GAP... shorter casing, however because of the popularity of the ACP they have since offered their product in ACP also.
I use T.A.P. ammo from hornady in my carry and of course a less expensive ball ammo for punching paper.
For plinking I like my Walther P22 with bridge and red dot scope. Mine came in kit with a 3.4 and 5 inch barrel.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
There mere fact that you put the word power in quotation marks, and reason number 3 on your list show me that you're not mature enough to own a gun yet. Perhaps a tazer or can of mace would be better.
And he has to prove his maturity to you in order to upgrade to a more "powerfull" weapon?
I suppose I shouldn't have any either because I like to go out to the hunting cabin and shoot guns while drinking beer with my friends. I also have a nice western double holster for my matching set of Ruger Blackhawk single six .357's and I twirl them around cowboy style for the fun of it.
God forbid someone has fun with their firearms.
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Originally posted by JB73
that looks nice :aok
I am quite happy with my Taurus the construction seems decent.
this may sound dumb, but what is the difference between .45 and .45 ACP ??
45 ACP = 45 Automatic Colt Pistol. It is a rimless round meaning it does not have a protruding rim as is seen on a revolver round like the 45 Long Colt. It is also a pretty short round.
45 is generally used to indicate the 45 Long Colt which started life as a 45 caliber black powder round used in the Colt Single Action Army revolver. This round is approximately twice the length of the 45ACP or at least seems that way.
Mark
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Also, JB, make sure you put some time in with that .357 SIG for automatics. It's a completely different round than a revolver fired .357 magnum. Good luck and let us know what you get. My money went to Sig Sauer and I'm very happy with it.
BTW- friend of mine just came through the Police Academy here and told me that the only weapon in his class that consistently jammed and had problems staying together and on target was the Kimber.
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Desert Eagle makes a .357 caliber D.Eagle alone with a .44Mag, .50cal, and a couple others.
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He's some info i found on it.
Desert Eagle (USA/Israel)
Type: semi-automatic pistol; Caliber - .50 AE /.44 Magnum /.41 Magnum /.357 Magnum ; Barrel length - 152 mm (6") ; Overall length - 260 mm (10") ; Capacity - 9 ; Weight ~ 1800 g (4 lbs).
Desert Eagle pistols were specially designed for the powerful Magnum cartridges and provide shooters with an extreme firepower. Desert Eagle is semi-automatic pistol with unique gas-operated construction and represents a new functional approach to a handgun. All parts of Desert Eagle are manufactured by precision casting and machining to strict military standards and with the dedication to quality and durability. Desert Eagle pistol features polygonal barrel rifling which increases handgun accuracy and reduces barrel wear. Relatively short pistol's recoil makes comfortable the usage of powerful Magnum ammunition. Nevertheless, on account of its massive size and weight, Desert Eagle pistol is not a good choice for self-defense
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Originally posted by Shuffler
I'm extremely happy with my XD45 (ACP = automatic colt pistol). For me the XD has a more natural angle on the grip than the Glock. XD comes with a lifetime warrantee also comes in different barrel lengths for easier carry. Comes with a nice case, double magazine pouch, tactical holster, speed loader and two 13 round clips. It has a visual cocking indicator and loaded chamber indicator that you can feel in low light or no light conditions. XDs also have an integral rail for your light, laser or bridge.
Which XD45 did you go with? 5", 4"?
Did you consider or try any of the C model Glocks?
I'd like to know what anyone thinks of the Glock .45 subcompact. Looks pretty cute :D
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Taurus Intl PT1911 .45 (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=59&category=Pistol)
For a suggested retail of around $700 it can't really be beat for a 1911 .45 pistol. When you consider that Taurus is also the ONLY firearm company that has a lifetime warranty on their products new or used it's a great deal.
That's the same gun as in Metal Gear Solid 3, minus all the hand-customized stuff. That's interesting. :D
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JB, pick a caliber that you like-this may take some time (and money, of course, but well spent in this case) at a range that rents' out pistols. At my local range, for example, they have just about every model of Glock available for rent; You can test caliber by renting identical pistols, in different calibers. Keep in mind, some revolvers, like quite a few .357's, for example, will reliably chamber the cheaper .38 Special round, as well, if you like a lot of range time. I believe (Lasz or someone, correct me if I'm wrong) that a Model 29 S&W .44 Mag can plink all day long on lower powered (and a little less brutal to shoot) .44 Special's.
Once you get your round figured out, you have a good basis as to your weapon purchase, since you've narrowed it down to caliber. Now, if you go 9mm, you've still got quite a few choices. For other Autoloader fodder, the field shrinks' somewhat. In revolvers, There will be quite a few .357 offerings, but starts to shrink up in the bigger calibers. I will say one great thing about revolvers: Even the large-frame Smith's can have grips fitted to be comfortable in small hands. Autoloaders are restricted by Mag size, so if you're looking at something with a high-cap double stack mag, Even a 9mm starts' to get a little fat in your hand. This is one of the things' that makes finding the right caliber in the right gun for you kinda tricky.
There's a few other little factors to consider, but the one that will also be at the top of the list is: Price ($$$!!!)
This tends' to narrow the field more than most other factors. I rented a Sprinfield V-16 at my local range/shop. It's a long barreled/Slide 1911 job, called the V-16 because of the two rows' of 8 Magna-ports in the barrel, with matching slots in the slide. I shot one hundred rounds' through it, realized that it was the most accurate and easy shooting 1911 I'd ever picked up, and when I took it back up to the rental desk, asked the guy behind the counter what they were asking for one. $1200+tax, shipping, background, etc.
It's a fine pistol, but I'll probably never own one, for that much green.
Well, anyway, GL JB, you've got a lot of shopping to do
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Originally posted by AKIron
I don't have a 1911 but I have a couple of semis. Being a relative newcomer to more than casually shooting handguns I was very surprised at the difference in accuracy between semis and revolvers. Maybe it's my grip, stance, or something else I am ignorant of but I can shoot revolvers a lot more accurately than my Berettta 92fs and Glock model 21.
Same here with the following added.............
I can hit with a 1911 (max 8 round mags) and MISS with a berrette......
Would love to get a para ord double stack but it's just too wide for my hands :(
grip size! and probably shape! I have small hands I guess.......
the berretta twists in my hand and hits all over the place.
to further enhance my shooting I changed the grips to very narrow or thin ones.
Handguns work best IF they suite your hand.
Maybe that will help?
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thanks for all the info, I definitely want .45 ACP thats the round I recognize and didn't know until now want. basically the "tommy gun" round.
To answer the question about caliber Frode I have settled on the .45 because of a few reasons. 1 how common it is. it is a standard that is used all over and I should have a multitude of ammo choices to purchase. 2 it has stopping power if I God forbid ever need to use it in a defense manner, much more so than a 9mm so I am told.
wrag, the one I held and was really comfortable with I think has a 7 round capacity. I have no problem with the lower capacity, I will just buy more magazines :aok
again thanks all for the information. that Taurus really does look nice ;)
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The Springfield is a better piece than the Taurus, at least from my experience with both. The Dan Wesson Point Man is a good piece as well, you can usually find a good deal if you look. The Point Man comes with most everything many add to their 1911 already installed, and from some of the finest suppliers.
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well....I have to disagree with virgil a bit.. the 1911 is a very basic gun and.. I carry it with a round in the chamber and the hammer at the first "safety" notch... not for safety.. the gun has a grip and firing pin safety... I carry it that way because it is easier to thumb back the hammer... I don't use the thumb safety.. I have seen too many 1911's where the safety was off by the time the guy got it out... Still no big deal with the grip safety and all but... years of single action revolvers make me have no problem thumbing back the hammer.
I have a few 45's... one is a Kimber.. I trust it.. it has never jammed with good ammo.. all the cops I know carry Kimbers when given the chance. It is reliable and accurate. If a kimber jams (I have not seen this) it is probly the mag... wilson combat makes the very best mags.
If you still want a revolver and 45 acp... smith makes a couple.. they use full moon clips so you can load all six at once.
Ammo is expensive... not so much for me cause I reload. someone said you can use 38 spl in 357 and 44 spl in 44 mag to save money.. that is true.. especially for the 357... 38 stuff is still cheap... not so much for 44 spl... that stuff still costs twice as much as full house 44 mag reloads. I load 44 mag rounds that have half a ton of energy (about 3 times a 45 acp) for about $4.50 a box of 50.
The taurus 45 1911 looks like a good deal but I have not shot one. I have shot Kimbers a bunch and all I can say is that they are worth the money.
I like 357 revolvers but.. for me.. the 44 mag revolver is king... I have a custom couple of em.. one Ruger redhawk cut down to 4".. you can now buy the redhawk in 44 with a factory 4" barrel.
most handguns will do for nightrstand duty. I like to plink.. the 45 acp is relatively weak for this. and.. it throws brass all over the place. You need to pick it up if you want to reload or... are simply not a slob.. At the range it bothers me to throw away all that 45 brass but... I have 12,000 once fired cases anyway.
44 mag is the very best for balance of power and size and versitility. The .357 comes next... some may switch those numbers around but.. a revolver is always more versitle than a self shucker.
And hornet is correct.. safe is the most important but the second most is having fun.... I always have fun when I go out shooting.
The other advice is good too... rent a bunch of guns or go out with someone who has a bunch... I have a dozen different guns and let people try em all.. I am always surprised at what handgun new guys end up wanting.
The gun you enjoy shooting will be the one you are good with most of the time tho.
lazs
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Springfield XD .45 ACP.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
JB, pick a caliber that you like-this may take some time (and money, of course, but well spent in this case) at a range that rents' out pistols. At my local range, for example, they have just about every model of Glock available for rent; You can test caliber by renting identical pistols, in different calibers. Keep in mind, some revolvers, like quite a few .357's, for example, will reliably chamber the cheaper .38 Special round, as well, if you like a lot of range time. I believe (Lasz or someone, correct me if I'm wrong) that a Model 29 S&W .44 Mag can plink all day long on lower powered (and a little less brutal to shoot) .44 Special's.
Once you get your round figured out, you have a good basis as to your weapon purchase, since you've narrowed it down to caliber. Now, if you go 9mm, you've still got quite a few choices. For other Autoloader fodder, the field shrinks' somewhat. In revolvers, There will be quite a few .357 offerings, but starts to shrink up in the bigger calibers. I will say one great thing about revolvers: Even the large-frame Smith's can have grips fitted to be comfortable in small hands. Autoloaders are restricted by Mag size, so if you're looking at something with a high-cap double stack mag, Even a 9mm starts' to get a little fat in your hand. This is one of the things' that makes finding the right caliber in the right gun for you kinda tricky.
There's a few other little factors to consider, but the one that will also be at the top of the list is: Price ($$$!!!)
This tends' to narrow the field more than most other factors. I rented a Sprinfield V-16 at my local range/shop. It's a long barreled/Slide 1911 job, called the V-16 because of the two rows' of 8 Magna-ports in the barrel, with matching slots in the slide. I shot one hundred rounds' through it, realized that it was the most accurate and easy shooting 1911 I'd ever picked up, and when I took it back up to the rental desk, asked the guy behind the counter what they were asking for one. $1200+tax, shipping, background, etc.
It's a fine pistol, but I'll probably never own one, for that much green.
Well, anyway, GL JB, you've got a lot of shopping to do
I have the V10 version and it was 650$ 4 years ago, 1200 seems a bit high for the same gun with a longer barrel.
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lazs thanks for the info.
I know I am never going to be that much of a shooter that I reload. I go maybe 3 to 7 times a year to the range, and that is enough for me. maybe in the future I will do more, but for the foreseeable future that will be about it.
maybe go 5 times a year and shoot 200 rounds maybe a bit more. last time I popped off 500 with my .22 but thats nothing. no fatigue on the hand or arm, and a friend shot at least 200 of those.
with that limited shooting schedule I don't think the price of new .45 rounds would be an issue...
I'll try and rent a few in the next few months and see how they shoot. that does sound like the best idea.