Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB73 on October 26, 2007, 11:00:19 AM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,305279,00.html
good for him!
Those nuts are a pain, and I'd like to see them lose this case. I don't remember seeing anyone else attempt to bring suit against them, is this the first???
could be precedent setting, I don't think "free speech" covers private affairs like a funeral, as it is not a public location, or public affair.
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Originally posted by JB73
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,305279,00.html
good for him!
Those nuts are a pain, and I'd like to see them lose this case. I don't remember seeing anyone else attempt to bring suit against them, is this the first???
could be precedent setting, I don't think "free speech" covers private affairs like a funeral, as it is not a public location, or public affair.
Barley and Snyder law firm should do the case pro bono, imo.
Those WBC wing nuts are going to get themselves whacked someday if they don't stop their hate filled self-serving public behavior against fallen war heroes.
Else, some irate Marines are going to nail them all... permanently, or put parachutes on them and drop them into Tehran with dynamite strapped to them with signs on them saying "Christian Suicide Bombers".
TIGERESS
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I've been waiting for a distraut family member to flip out and cause some serious bidily harm to these whack jobs.
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i wonder if people picket their church while they are holding services. they should.
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Of all the things they could protests about.. it's this?
claiming the deaths are punishment for the country's tolerance of homosexuality
I knew they were whack jobs, but even that's pushing it. Sadly I think he will have a hard time winning this case. If they protested on public property, than as screwed up as it is, I don't think he can win.
It's one of those things that unfortunately we have to accept, if we are to stand true to the 1st amendment with out restrictions that might show up elsewhere.
I say, find out who these people are and gather up people from the net, to go picket each of these A holes homes. I'd say give them each a personal taste of what they are dishing out.
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protest them at the local diner while they are trying to eat.
protest their hotel rooms when they travel.
protest them while they sleep.
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Originally posted by Tiger
I've been waiting for a distraut family member to flip out and cause some serious bidily harm to these whack jobs.
According to the website they are.
I think if it ever gets to a jury trial it's going to be very interesting. I just finished reading the motions and the court has denied every motion to suppress or dismiss.
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where does "freedom of speech" end and harassment begin?
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Originally posted by crockett
Of all the things they could protests about.. it's this?
claiming the deaths are punishment for the country's tolerance of homosexuality
I knew they were whack jobs, but even that's pushing it. Sadly I think he will have a hard time winning this case. If they protested on public property, than as screwed up as it is, I don't think he can win.
It's one of those things that unfortunately we have to accept, if we are to stand true to the 1st amendment with out restrictions that might show up elsewhere.
I say, find out who these people are and gather up people from the net, to go picket each of these A holes homes. I'd say give them each a personal taste of what they are dishing out.
Actually they are suing on several fronts and the case looks pretty good from where I sit.
Summary
Defamation, invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress
Count 1
Defamation
Count II
Invasion Of Privacy - Intrusion Upon Seclusion
Count III
Invasion Of Privacy - Publicity Given To Private Life
Count IV
Intentional Infliction Of Emotional Distress
Count V
Civil Conspiracy
The Westboro people maintain a number of websites and, apparantly, posted all over them about the family, what they were going to do, and crowed about it afterwards.
Like I said it will be interesting to watch. Where are our members who are lawyers and what do they think?
Ooops sorry, I acted like I had a brain, I'll go back to being class clown now :D
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do we have members who are lawyers?
:confused:
never heard tell of that.
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A couple of them actually. I hate to admit it but reading legal documents is kind of interesting to me so I read the motions back and forth. Apparantly the WBC dodged every attempt at a summons and already got a summary judgement against them.
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Its a pity ammunition is so pricey these days.
Cuz they should be shot like the traiterous dogs they are.
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Originally posted by JB88
do we have members who are lawyers?
:confused:
never heard tell of that.
we have 2 or 3 I think. I forget exactly who, but I know there's a few.
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Donation made....hopefully they'll put these halfwits right outta sight.........my FIL lives in 29 Palms CA, so I know quite a few of the Marines that are there (being a drunkard is useful sometimes.....even if they cant play pool for %&*$ lol...) and I'd support each and every one of em were I able.
to all serving, served and considering serving
Wurzel
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During a March 26, 1993 protest at Topeka's Vintage Restaurant, a riot broke out and eight WBC members were hospitalized for various minor injuries; WBC now pickets the restaurant every day, as well as the places of business where employees went after leaving the Vintage in an attempt to escape Westboro. In addition, the congregants hold a memorial service every year on the 26th, commemorating what they refer to as "the Vintage Massacre".
In 1994, a woman tried to run down protesters in Topeka after one of them screamed obscenities at her while her pick-up truck was parked at a stop light. She was arrested, but was later found not guilty due to temporary insanity.
In 2002 Blue Valley North High School held productions of The Laramie Project play. Westboro members made it known that they were coming to picket the school. To their surprise many students cut class to meet the picketers and a small riot ensued with a few instances of car vandalism. The school later made tickets to the shows "buy ahead" in order to keep Westboro members from interrupting the play. Subsequently Phelps' website started declaring that "God Hates Blue Valley North" and proceeded to picket every year's graduation ceremony following the event.
In 2003, WBC member Charles Hockenbarger, who was in his 70s at the time, had his face crushed in a beating after standing on a street corner holding a sign reading "THANK GOD FOR SEPT. 11". Hockenbarger was recovering from open heart surgery at the time and ignoring the usual doctor's orders for bed rest. Westboro posted photos of the aftermath of the attack on its homepage, claiming that the (still unidentified) perpetrator was a homosexual and that the attack had been part of a murder conspiracy to kill Hockenbarger, though offering no proof of these allegations.
During a protest at the 2005 presidential inauguration of George W. Bush, WBC protesters were slapped, kicked and had their signs forcefully taken by other protesters.
There have been differing reports on actions at an October 5, 2005, picket of a Wisconsin soldier's funeral. One report was that Dodge County Sheriff Todd Nehls asked Paulette Phelps to move so he could protect her. Her group called him a Nazi and refused to comply. A conflicting claim put forth by members of the WBC alleges that Sheriff Nehls punched Paulette Phelps in the face. Video of the purported incident at godhatesstudmuffins.com — which claims to show Nehls striking one of the church members — is ambiguous, and at the point the purported attack takes place, the camera is pointed at the ground (indeed, large portions of the video are made up of shots of Westboro members' feet and the ground).[54]
During a picket in Seaford, Delaware on May 21, 2006, a mob broke through police lines and tried to assault WBC members who fled into a police van. Some of the mob then began banging on the van attempting to get inside. Two windows of the van were shattered before the van could get away. Five people face criminal charges.[55]
It has suggested that a Liberty University student who intended to bring a bomb to the funeral of Jerry Falwell may have intended to use the device against a WBC protest at the funeral.[8][9]
Can't say that I feel sorry for them.
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Originally posted by indy007
Can't say that I feel sorry for them.
Dam, I knew these people were idiots, but didn't know they had been practicing the idiocy for so long. I'm surprised no one has burned down their church.
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Originally posted by crockett
Dam, I knew these people were idiots, but didn't know they had been practicing the idiocy for so long. I'm surprised no one has burned down their church.
They are symptoms of a disease called hatred.
I have read they want people to attack them so they can sue... thus make a buck. :confused: Takes all kinds.
They are typical of no-life attention seekers like Jerry Springer guests but have gone so far over the top they set a new world record.
TIGERESS
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307058,00.html
Jury awards him $11 million :aok
nice to hear I say!
sure Foxnews changes the story after I post it :furious :lol
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Originally posted by JB73
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307058,00.html
Jury awards him $2.9 million :aok
nice to hear I say!
HALLELUJAH!!!
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2.9 mil? That was just compensatory damages...
Check this out!
Snyder's father, Albert, won on every count of his complaint, as well as $2.9 million for compensatory damages and $8 million for punitive damages.
A fallen Marine Pwned Westboro Baptist Church from the grave...
Father of slain Marine wins nearly $11 million in compensatory and punitive damages (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-westboro1031,0,7191706.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout)
TIGERESS
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I am kind of surprised he got so quick of a verdict, and such a high one...
I'm not complaining at all, it is just unusual for something like this the be resolved so quickly.
I wonder how much of a precedent this will set?
will people from years and funerals back start suing?
of course they are going to appeal, wonder how long that will take?
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BRILLIANT!!!
I hope all the appeals go the same way.
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This could be a reality check for a lot of people...
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by crockett
Of all the things they could protests about.. it's this?
claiming the deaths are punishment for the country's tolerance of homosexuality
I knew they were whack jobs, but even that's pushing it. Sadly I think he will have a hard time winning this case. If they protested on public property, than as screwed up as it is, I don't think he can win.
It's one of those things that unfortunately we have to accept, if we are to stand true to the 1st amendment with out restrictions that might show up elsewhere.
I say, find out who these people are and gather up people from the net, to go picket each of these A holes homes. I'd say give them each a personal taste of what they are dishing out.
but is a cemetary really considered "public property"
Arent most cemetaries privately owned?
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Originally posted by Tigeress
2.9 mil? That was just compensatory damages...
Check this out!
Snyder's father, Albert, won on every count of his complaint, as well as $2.9 million for compensatory damages and $8 million for punitive damages.
A fallen Marine Pwned Westboro Baptist Church from the grave...
Father of slain Marine wins nearly $11 million in compensatory and punitive damages (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-westboro1031,0,7191706.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout)
TIGERESS
You guys do realize that the only money they will probably receive is no more than roughly 100 thousand, from the liquidation of their meager assets?
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Well I'm not one big on 'moral' victories but I'll take this one and
the family that had the guts to go after those nut jobs. I'm all in favor of freedom of speech but abuse and slander are things nobody should have to put up with.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You guys do realize that the only money they will probably receive is no more than roughly 100 thousand, from the liquidation of their meager assets?
If the appeals don't stand up, they will be haunted for money they owe forever... and will probably have to sell WBC. just ask OJ ;)
Tonight's dinner will not be a happy event in the Phelps Household... and no doubt a lot of Topeka people will wave and smile to them.
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by john9001
where does "freedom of speech" end and harassment begin?
Freedom of speech protects expression from governmental interference and criminal prosecution--for the most part.
Harassment is a civil matter, therefore even forms of expression that are protected by the 1st amendment can be actionable if there is private harm done.
$11million dollar judgment against these *******--I think it's long overdue. A hollow victory for the plaintiff, given his loss, but not a bad win for our often flaky legal system.
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Originally posted by JB73
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307058,00.html
Jury awards him $11 million :aok
nice to hear I say!
sure Foxnews changes the story after I post it :furious :lol
awwww!!! poor baby. I went to CNN :D
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by Tigeress
If the appeals don't stand up, they will be haunted for money they owe forever... and will probably have to sell WBC. just ask OJ ;)
Tonight's dinner will not be a happy event in the Phelps Household... and no doubt a lot of Topeka people will wave and smile to them.
TIGERESS
Yeah, or they can disband and only lose their current assets. Then they reform and have no debt to anyone.
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I think this is just freaking outstanding!!!!!!!!
Just because speech is free does not mean there are not limits to it and no repercussions for abusing others.
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exactly. they are little more than common bullies.
(tho they'll probably never actually pay a dime...which sucks.)
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Even if the award was only a dollar it was still a victory.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yeah, or they can disband and only lose their current assets. Then they reform and have no debt to anyone.
Hi Laser,
In addition to the church itself, Fred and his two daughters, by name, were targeted in the suit so even if WBC, itself, disbanded there remains Fred, daughter 1, and daughter 2 with the financial burden.
How would these three individuals escape that? Just wondering; I'm not a lawyer...
TIGERESS
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Simple, declare bankruptcy and then reform the church in the 4th in line's name. It would be a superficial change, however Phelps and his two daughters wouldn't have any assets to their names.
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I don't know how well that would work.
There are legal theories that can be used to find liability through association--given that the association is reasonably direct (defining reasonability in the legal world is pretty much equivalent to answering the question 'why' for scientists--its definition changes, readily, according to the situation).
The important thing to remember is that the court is not always deaf dumb and blind to games of administrative hide and seek. A court's hands are often, but not always tied in these matters, and getting away from liability simply by declaring bankruptcy, changing names and ownership is not a cure-all. If it was, very few corporations would ever choose to settle, or find themselves on the losing side of a decision.
Even if this church escapes monetary obligation, this sort of 'free speech' has now been officially painted in a tortious light. This church, its successor, or any similar group is on notice that this behavior is actionable, and any efforts to carry on this practice will likely be met with a strong civil suit, backed up by current, relevant precedent.
Like I said earlier, perhaps a hollow victory for the dad, but definitely a significant footnote in caselaw.
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As I understand it declaring folding the church won't help the defendants. The filing names Fred W. Phelps, SR, Westboro Baptist Church, Inc, Rebekah Phelps - Davis, and Shirley Phelps-Roger as defendants. While they can fold the church the defendants are named individually so they are responsible for portions of the ruling.
I'd like to see the final court documents to see how the damages are spread out.
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You know, it just couldn't have happened to "nicer people".
:D :aok
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Originally posted by john9001
where does "freedom of speech" end and harassment begin?
When congress passes a law abridging your freedom of speech. Until then your 1st amendment rights are maintained.
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Originally posted by JB88
i wonder if people picket their church while they are holding services. they should.
That's what they want...Free publicity for their bogus religion.
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Even if no money or assets change hands here, this lawsuit sets a precedence. It allows other families to go after this group, and while I don't agree with clogging up our justice system with lawsuits, in this case it seems warranted giving the actions of this group. If enough people sue them, at some point the Govt is going to have to step in and hold these types of groups accountable.
As it is now, this group is nothing more than a punk kid yelling obscenities from behind his mothers dress. I am sure if you came to them and started picketing their services, their meals, their day to day lives they would have a **** fit. On top of that you would get these types publicity and a stage to spread their warped message to even larger groups.
I say keep suing them. Even if they have to keep breaking up and restructuring, eventually one of two things is going to happen. One, they will not have enough members left to do much of anything, since a good numbers will most likely drop like flies as soon as they loose their 1st Amendment blanket to hide under. Or two, they will all be bankrupt to the point they will have to start holding "services" in parks and parking lots. This will go even further to thin out the membership of this group.
For me, if I came across this group picketing some soldiers funeral..I am not sure how I would be able to control myself. I think it would take everything I had not to launch a full blown assault on their group. I am all for freedom of speech and expression, but there comes a point where that speech and expression, cross into disrespect and harassment. That is the point my blood starts to boil. I applaud the few people that have stood up to this group, legally or otherwise.
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Perhaps I am wrong here, but...
"Freedom of Speech" has lots of exceptions already on the books.
That is to say, there are things you can not say under penalty law and if you say them and get caught you will likely go to prison for it.
And in many cases... federal prison, for a long long time in some cases.
TIGERESS
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i dont see much difference between the anti-gay hatred spread by this pastor and that preached by the late Jerry Fallwell(if they had given Fallwell's corpse an enima,they could have burried him in a matchbox)
It seems if you put the title "Reverend" before your name,you can get away with saying/doing almost anything .
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Fallwell didn't picket soldier's funerals. I think that's what the main point is. The Phelps were promoting hate and causing hardship at these funerals and that's the basis for the lawsuit. I mean why would you picket about homosexuality at a soldier's funeral. I think the connection is a little obscure......
They went over the top on the free speech thing. I think if they had actually picketed a gay rights parade or just picketed without causing a disturbance they would have been fine.
What is this family trying to achieve, really? I mean if they hate the US so much and see the entire country going to hell, then why don't they leave? I'm sure Iran would like to have them.
Search Youtube for "America's most hated family"
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Originally posted by MotorOil1
Fallwell didn't picket soldier's funerals. I think that's what the main point is. The Phelps were promoting hate and causing hardship at these funerals and that's the basis for the lawsuit. I mean why would you picket about homosexuality at a soldier's funeral. I think the connection is a little obscure......
They went over the top on the free speech thing. I think if they had actually picketed a gay rights parade or just picketed without causing a disturbance they would have been fine.
What is this family trying to achieve, really? I mean if they hate the US so much and see the entire country going to hell, then why don't they leave? I'm sure Iran would like to have them.
Search Youtube for "America's most hated family"
They are just attention-seeking no-lifers. Thats about it.
TIGERESS
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I managed to miss this whole story, then again it's been a busy year. The first I saw of it was this week after the lawsuit. The timing couldn't have been worse. I'm sitting in a hospital room with my legless son and we both see some puke holding a sign that says Thank God For IEDs on the television....:mad:
All Thomas had to say was "Now you know why I keep my TV on ESPN"
:lol