Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Russian on October 26, 2007, 04:21:28 PM
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Finally I got my expensive piece of history. A 1985 Nagant, manufactured date 1931. I just picked it up and didn't have time to clean it.
It comes with a holster, a directions paper, string/rope, screwdriver and pistol.
(http://x0e.xanga.com/3acc067573233154160696/w115255707.jpg)
(http://x56.xanga.com/a8cd867b06c31154160691/w115255702.jpg)
Notice Star stamp and 1931 year.
(http://x70.xanga.com/925c107564730154160708/w115255714.jpg)
Attached 'rope' ;)
(http://x7b.xanga.com/f66d827544731154160712/w115255718.jpg)
Notice shells popping out.
(http://x57.xanga.com/ae3d804707031154160722/w115255727.jpg)
During reloading, shell pops out when cycled with open 'holder'
Since I haven't had time to clean it, I'm not going to comment on 9kg pull. Right now it is heavy in both, double and single, action. But it's not 9Kg...
So total damage ..
79$ Pistol + 15$ S&H
75 $ transfer fee
30 $ background check
30 $ 15 question pistol safely quiz
~60$ for 200 rounds.
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Nice:cool:
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Originally posted by Russian
Finally I got my expensive piece of history. A 1985 Nagant, manufactured date 1931. I just picked it up and didn't have time to clean it.
It comes with a holster, a directions paper, string/rope, screwdriver and pistol.
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I sure do hope it comes with a pistol. :D
Very nice. Anyway of knowing its history?
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
I sure do hope it comes with a pistol. :D
Very nice. Anyway of knowing its history?
I can find out where it was manufactured due to stamps, but not where it was during past 80 years. Of course, according to Laz, it was used to kill entire polish/ukranian/baltic population ;)
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Is that a crack or split?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/Airscrew/w115255702.jpg)
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So now Lasz can see what I meant.
Shells protruding from the drum. Now you understand?
Dima, I can't see inside a Star, is it Izhevsk or Tula?
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Russian, it looks like you were able to find one that was rust-free and in fairly good condition, not put together out of spare parts or cast offs. Congrats!
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Nice Russian!
It is a shame the fees cost more then the gun.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Dima, I can't see inside a Star, is it Izhevsk or Tula?
I have an Izehvsk Mosin Rifle. Its symbol is a Triangle. I thought it was Star for Tula, Triangle for Izehvsk. Is it different for rifles and handguns?
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looks like a "Saturday Night Special" ...SHould be banned
Btw...Lord look at that gap between barrel and cylnder
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Originally posted by Nefarious
I have an Izehvsk Mosin Rifle. Its symbol is a Triangle. I thought it was Star for Tula, Triangle for Izehvsk. Is it different for rifles and handguns?
Not sure now. I thought it's an arrow in a star for Izhevsk, I don't own any guns - so I may be mistaken and it's a triangle with an arrow inside...
Even my Izh-22 air-gun was borrowed by Africa for upgrade, I hope to see it once again ;)
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Originally posted by BiGBMAW
looks like a "Saturday Night Special" ...SHould be banned
Btw...Lord look at that gap between barrel and cylnder
You HAVE to read our discussion with Lazs in another thread. Let me find a link...
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Originally posted by Boroda
Not sure now. I thought it's an arrow in a star for Izhevsk, I don't own any guns - so I may be mistaken and it's a triangle with an arrow inside...
My Mosin Nagant is an 1891/30 with the Izhevsk arsenal stamped 1941. And it is a Triangle with an Arrow. Its the top rifle.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/ralphmunnich/agebeforebeauty.jpg)
Great find.
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Nice arsenal you have there:aok
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http://www.simonov.net/uberid.htm
Arsenal Stamps for Russian SKS and as far as I know it carries back to the Mosins.
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Originally posted by BiGBMAW
looks like a "Saturday Night Special" ...SHould be banned
Btw...Lord look at that gap between barrel and cylnder
I beleive, per a previous thread on this very same revolver, that the shell casing protrudes from the cylinder at the time it's fired to compensate for that.
Mark
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Originally posted by BiGBMAW
looks like a "Saturday Night Special" ...SHould be banned
Btw...Lord look at that gap between barrel and cylnder
not to add any confusion but I thought that when the hammer is "clocked" (man this is so stupid) that the cylinder moves forward slightly to close the gap, I could be wrong its been along time since I fired a SA or a DA, and then there could be difference between Russian and American designs...
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http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217043&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
And so on.
I tried to explain the idea. Low tolerance highly accurate weapon.
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Great photos too.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
My Mosin Nagant is an 1891/30 with the Izhevsk arsenal stamped 1941. And it is a Triangle with an Arrow. Its the top rifle.
I have read that Tula (with a Star, as You corrected me) Nagants were the best quality. Originally Mk1895 revolvers were produced in Tula since 1897.
I seriously envy you guys. I can only go to a shooting-range to practice a rented handgun, with no chance to work at it at home or buy my own ammo.
I have shown Dima (Russian) a Nagant cartridge this Spring when he visited me. I can go to jail for 5 years for showing it to someone else. They can jail you here for owning a single .22LR cartridge, and it;s a real problem, because I have some back from 20 years ago when I was in rifleing team. And I don;t know where they are now. All over the place. I even used some (lead) in technical drawing in the Uni :D Nagant is almost no danger, our brave Militia will think this is a defected or empty case :D No bullet outside ;)
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Originally posted by Boroda
I have read that Tula (with a Star, as You corrected me) Nagants were the best quality. Originally Mk1895 revolvers were produced in Tula since 1897.
I seriously envy you guys. I can only go to a shooting-range to practice a rented handgun, with no chance to work at it at home or buy my own ammo.
I have shown Dima (Russian) a Nagant cartridge this Spring when he visited me. I can go to jail for 5 years for showing it to someone else. They can jail you here for owning a single .22LR cartridge, and it;s a real problem, because I have some back from 20 years ago when I was in rifleing team. And I don;t know where they are now. All over the place. I even used some (lead) in technical drawing in the Uni :D Nagant is almost no danger, our brave Militia will think this is a defected or empty case :D No bullet outside ;)
Is that because of strict gun laws that you are unable to possess cartridges?
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Originally posted by Airscrew
Is that a crack or split?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/Airscrew/w115255702.jpg)
I just know it's intended to be there :D It's not a crack...I'll take it apart and see.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Russian, it looks like you were able to find one that was rust-free and in fairly good condition, not put together out of spare parts or cast offs. Congrats!
I think they all come this way. I got it from AIMPlus. Mine looks new...and probably is.
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Dammit man, you're in Chino?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Dammit man, you're in Chino?
Yep. Why?
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I'm in Riverside. Where do you go to shoot?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I'm in Riverside. Where do you go to shoot?
The only one I knows is in Chino. It's off of euclid ave. It's not even rifle...and a bit expensive. 15$
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=chino,+a&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.984987,82.265625&ie=UTF8&ll=33.936355,-117.658532&spn=0.001086,0.002511&t=k&z=19&iwloc=addr&om=1
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Originally posted by Russian
It's not even rifle...and a bit expensive. 15$
$15 to shoot your own guns? Are there no Free Public Ranges in CA?
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No free ones that I know of.
That range was built for the 1984 Olympics.
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Ok... I don't recall having to have boroda explain anything about the gun to me including the "protruding" shells... I know all about the gun anyway.
are you talking about the brass coming out past the cyl or the fact that the shell heads are not recessed? either way... I was aware of both.
All nagants sent here are in pretty good shape. they are also dirt cheap.. it is the weak underpowered ammo that is expensive.
I never said it killed all those people.. it only killed the ones who were kneeling.
It probly didn't kill anyone in the winter.. cause the heavy coat would stop the puny bullet. would leave a nasty welt tho.
I suggest that you put the trigger on a good trigger scale. you will find the double action somewhere between 16 and 20 lbs if it is typical of the breed.
lazs
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MT, which one do you go to? Next week I'm going to test this and 1911 I recently fixed.
(http://xd2.xanga.com/d8a8377115419154351230/w115420519.jpg)
Laz, are you talking about gravity or actual force?
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yes we have Free Ranges in CA..I have a 300 Yd open air range Next to BEAL AFB...Home of the U2 and Global Hawk
Cement picnic tabel sto shoot from with berms at 50-150 an d200 ydswith the hillside being 310 yds
Free...You see Full autos shooting there everyonce in awhile...soemwhat isolated: )
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actual force..you need a trigger scale. it looks a bit like a fish scale that you hang a hook or pan from.. it is a spring in a tube that is measured in lbs.. the end is a hook that you hook around the trigger and then pull back the body watching the lbs. you might be shocked at what you see.
I can judge light weights up to about 4 lbs.. like most single actions but.. am usually off quite a bit judging double action... grip shape and size of hands can fool you... my hands are large and a gun with small grips will often feel like it has a heavier pull than it does while one that fits my hand will seem lighter.
lazs
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Originally posted by BiGBMAW
yes we have Free Ranges in CA..
Whew! I was going to say, the gun laws in CA seem strict enough.
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I would bet that if you checked with local gunsmiths or shops one of them probably has a trigger scale
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We had a free range outside of Mt Home AFB back about 94. Free if you volunteered to help upkeep the range and take care of. Had covered shooting areas with built in benches and target stands at 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards. All that was required was to clean up after yourself and come a couple times a year and paint or repair stuff when needed.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I suggest that you put the trigger on a good trigger scale. you will find the double action somewhere between 16 and 20 lbs if it is typical of the breed.
lazs
I don't have that type of a scale, but I did tie to the trigger a 10 pound weight and that almost made it....
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That should work.. if you can do it with a known weight and imitate your trigger finger on the trigger.
lazs
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Laz, so how many 120 years old revolvers can you compare to this?
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Originally posted by Russian
Laz, so how many 120 years old revolvers can you compare to this?
It seems to me that according to Lasz the stronger it kicks the better it is :D It's his comparison criteria.
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compare in what way?
Smith and wesson had a top break 44 double action in 1881 colt had the lightning and thunderer.. and.. the excelent 1873.. before that.. there were factory conversions of cap and ball remingtons and colts.
All had twice the power of the nagant and were as well or better made.
The single action colts were much more powerful and faster to the first shot (the money shot) than any nagant could ever hope to be.. the top break guns were ten times faster to reload (sorta important in a military arm eh?) and...
twice as powerful.
as to kick... who cares? not really noticable when you need to stop someone.. it is more than embarassing tho when your weak 100 grain bullet is stopped by a winter coat and some web gear.
There are a dozen guns made at the turn of the century mark that I would instantly choose over the nagant for defense. If I were doing formalized target shooting competition at very close range... like 25 yards.. the nagant would be fine.
lazs
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Originally posted by Russian
I don't have that type of a scale, but I did tie to the trigger a 10 pound weight and that almost made it....
http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0003648210636a.shtml
You can also use the "Poor man`s" scale if you have something to weigh with at all.
Coat hanger bent a right angles with a milk jug. Hang the firearm, then place the coat hanger with jug attached and add water until trigger releases. Weigh the entire assembly. Bingo. Not as accurate, but close.
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So today I took Nagant 1895 to de-virgining session. Also, I brought along a Colte Mk 4/ Series 70. Government model .45 that I recently cleaned/fixed, yet not fired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_rOtg2Jf4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_mVzVVPTUo
(jam in the end...lol)
Both, double action and single actions are too hard. I’m sure it can be modified, but right now in order to do ‘accidental’ shooting, one must pull 12-16 pounds.
First grouping was a bit low, and way off to the left. I didn’t have any tools required to modify site at the range, but it can be easily done by few hammer hits ;) A typical rigid weapon design.
(http://x31.xanga.com/e3ac1b4634730154929040/b115921778.jpg)
(http://x15.xanga.com/c71c237b21435154929048/w115921785.jpg)
After 100 rounds, I can make decent grouping from both double action and single action which surprised me since with other revolvers that I experienced, double action usually is like shooting from a shotgun. It feels as Nagant gives me more warning when I about to fire from double action.
I believe I require more shooting to show off my skills. I didn’t have anything to test power other than wooden post holding my target. Obviously 45 ripped that little plank to pieces and Nagant made a nice small hole.
(http://xd3.xanga.com/76ec307b11732154929053/w115921789.jpg)
(http://xd2.xanga.com/a5ac227b01435154929057/w115921794.jpg)
(http://x44.xanga.com/45bc014034733154929034/w115921772.jpg)
Damage from 45
Kickback feels slightly more than .22. It may do something because of ‘sports’ ammo which has much less power.
Conclusion.
Nagant makes a good/decent sporting pistol. It makes a terrible military side-arm since reloading takes a ridiculously long time.
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fun huh? shooting double action is easier with some guns than others.. the nagant has a leaf spring like smiths and old colts.. they "stack" if the sear is crude.. you actually can get a staging effect. but.. any leaf spring gun will give you warning if you practice or get the feel for it.
That is why military rifles have the crude two stage trigger.. for people who are not experianced.
coil spring guns like the ruger have a different feel but there is a distinctive "notch" feel before the hammer falls... I sometimes pull right through it tho.. no big deal.
been practicing some double action with my K22 in the house with super colibri ammo (20 grain slug at 500 fps) at thirty feet it will shoot under an inch or.. about a 2" group at 25 yards. no recoil so I can practice trigger control and such.
lazs