Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DVDA on October 26, 2007, 11:53:14 PM
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Whats the difference? Been away for a long time just returned to see it on the list....
I use FW190-D9 but when i need to take off from Carrier i use F4U-1D, so how is 1A compared to 1D and the other F4Us?
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1A doesn't carry as much ord but i think is lighter so better in a turn fight. I'm no expert but think thats right.
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F4U-1A is a far superior fighter than the -1D. It is FASTER, however it is a slower accelorator, but second fastest only to the -4. It is lighter and more agile since it does not carry lots of pylons.
Also it as wing tanks so a drop tank is not even needed, making your climb rate better when u are heading to a fight over distances.
The stall properties are not as harsh as the -1d also.
My recommendations are the -4 and -1a for dog fighting, and the -1d and -1c for primary attack goals, they are the slower craft and less manuverable.
the -1 is also very comparible to the -1a but has a slightly weaker engine and not so great views.
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Actually, Warlockl, if you set it right the straight-back view in the -1 can actually be somewhat better than the bubble-top Hogs due to the cutouts along the side of the fuselage and because you don't have that big metal hood over your head. However overall, yes, the views in the birdcage are poor, especially when looking straight ahead and trying to gauge a deflection shot. :p
For a more specific comparison, the F4U-1A has roughly similar range to the -1, is faster by a few mph, and has a few feet shaved off her turning circle, with the acceleration and vertical performance of the 1D (1D has very slight advantages in acceleration and climb, but they are minute enough as to have no real impact in a fight). While this elevates her acceleration and vertical from the bottom-end of comparable fighters to maybe just above average at best, combined with her speed (capable of 410+ TAS at altitude) and turning ability she's easily the best pure dogfighter of the non-perked Hogs (the -4 stands so far above the rest of the family she just doesn't compare).
I still think she could arguably be given a very light perk, (maybe about 5 points) ESPECIALLY when she's available in the Mid War arena (at least a couple maps have the 1A available in MW).
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as far as turn fighting, the d-hog owns the 1-A!
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Lets compare the general performance of the F4U-1A and F4U-1D. Data taken with 25% fuel, zero burn rate. Clean configuration. Note that a bomb rack essentially nullifies the advantages the F4U-1A has over the F4U-1D in terms of drag.
Max Speed, Sea Level.
F4U-1A: 366 mph
F4U-1D: 354 mph
Max Speed, 10k.
F4U-1A: 392 mph
F4U-1D: 380 mph
Max Speed, 15k.
F4U-1A: 412 mph
F4U-1D: 402 mph
Max Speed, 20K.
F4U-1A: 419 mph
F4U-1D: 409 mph
Sea Level Acceleration, 150 mph to 250 mph.
F4U-1A: 23.37 seconds
F4U-1D: 24.42 seconds
Note that the -1D accelerates slightly faster from 150 mph to 200 mph. However, due to less drag, the F4U-1A catches up by 220 mph and is slightly ahead by 250 mph.
Time to Climb From Sea Level to 10K.
F4U-1A: 2:30.34
F4U-1D: 2:27.96
This is directly related to the F4U-1A carrying more fuel weight at 25% capacity, which more than offsets the slightly greater weight of the F4U-1D basic airframe.
Minimum Turn Radius, Sea Level, Full Flaps.
F4U-1A: 422 feet
F4U-1D: 427 feet
In terms of dogfighting, the differences between these two are insignificant, being totally dependent upon weight of fuel and ammo. Invariably, pilot skill is a far bigger factor.
In general terms, the F4U-1A is a slightly better fighter than the F4U-1D. On the other hand, the F4U-1D is a far superior attack aircraft. With performance differences not being large, the F4U-1D is clearly the better all-around aircraft. So, it basically comes down to your purpose. For pure air-to-air fighting, take the -1A. For Jabo, then switching to air-to-air, take the -1D. My personal taste leads me to prefer the -1C over the other two. Its air-to-ground under-wing load is only slightly less than the -1D, and the four 20mm cannons more than make up for that. The -1C's lethality more than offsets the reduction in turn radius (443 feet), acceleration and climb associated with the greater weight of the cannons and their ammo. Either way, you won't go wrong selecting any of these fighters.
My regards,
Widewing
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Point of order regarding fuel:
Most experienced 1A pilots will burn off the wings either entirely, or at least down to between 1/8 and 1/4 before engaging. I know from my own experience before we received the 1A that a LOT of 1D pilots will carry a drop tank or two if they're going in as a pure fighter because of the more limited internal fuel load (even full internal just doesn't seem like enough to me, though not nearly as bad as the gas-guzzling -4). So generally by the time the two aircraft actually enter combat, any advantage the 1D may have because of its lighter internal fuel load is going to be negated.
Because of this I'd be much more interested in seeing how the two aircraft compare under equal fuel loads (say, 50% in the 1A and 75% in the 1D, which leaves the 1A's wings dry and fills both to roughly 75% in the main tank), as I think this would better simulate fuel status during actual combat.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Point of order regarding fuel:
Because of this I'd be much more interested in seeing how the two aircraft compare under equal fuel loads (say, 50% in the 1A and 75% in the 1D, which leaves the 1A's wings dry and fills both to roughly 75% in the main tank), as I think this would better simulate fuel status during actual combat.
did they change the -1A to have the same fuel loadout as the F4U-1? I thought the -1A shows 50% in all tanks......
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Yeah, they changed it on the last patch, I think.
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With my experience of flying both planes. I find that when using lots of rudder in a knife fight the -1D is more responsive and stable compared to the 1A.
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Originally posted by SAS_KID
With my experience of flying both planes. I find that when using lots of rudder in a knife fight the -1D is more responsive and stable compared to the 1A.
Agree. Ive been going back and forth with these two for a couple weeks now and the 1D seems to have a softer starboard wing stall at low speed. No data to support.
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Widewing, can U redo the tests with all the hogs. I always thought the -1 was the fastest in top speed of all the non perked hogs but slower accelerate then all but -1c. I just would like to see actual test data to confirm if u don't mind.
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Originally posted by AKDogg
Widewing, can U redo the tests with all the hogs. I always thought the -1 was the fastest in top speed of all the non perked hogs but slower accelerate then all but -1c. I just would like to see actual test data to confirm if u don't mind.
Ok, I retested for speed at sea level. 25% fuel, zero burn. I let each run until out of WEP. My method is to climb to 2k, establish 300 mph and dive to 50 feet ASL. I then let the aircraft settle down to max MIL power speed and then apply WEP.
Result...
F4U-4: 376 mph
F4U-1A: 366 mph
F4U-1: 360 mph
F4U-1D: 358 mph
F4U-1C: 357 mph
My regards,
Widewing
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i believe the -1 was the fastest non-perk hog till we got the -1A.
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Did you happen to collect the turn DPSs Widewing?
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How much does the single bomb rack (the one that remains after a bomb or tank is released on the -1A) degrade the performance of the -1A? Does it reduce speed and acceleration to the point where performance is equal to the -1D or is the change not that drastic?
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About 5-6mph, so she'll still have a slight speed advantage over the 1D even with the rack.
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It doesn't matter which Corsair I fly, -1, -1A, -1C, -1D, -4....
I still get killed in them ;-)
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Originally posted by Saxman
Point of order regarding fuel:
I know from my own experience before we received the 1A that a LOT of 1D pilots will carry a drop tank or two if they're going in as a pure fighter because of the more limited internal fuel load (even full internal just doesn't seem like enough to me, though not nearly as bad as the gas-guzzling -4). So generally by the time the two aircraft actually enter combat, any advantage the 1D may have because of its lighter internal fuel load is going to be negated.
Or maybe they do what I do.
Carry DT's till engaging/engaged, then DROP them. That meaning, your then in your lighter, fighting "prime" so to speak.
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well in the -1a there is absolutelty no reason why u need a drop tank.
a -1a at 50 percent fuel carries the same amount if fuel as the -1d and -1c at 100 percent.
a -1a at 75 percent will give u aprox. 34 minutes of flying, and u can quickly drain the wing tanks empty while climbing the fight, infact ususally by the time u get to where u want to go u have about 80% fuel left, and this is very econimical because u are not OVERLOADED, yet u have plenty of fuel to stay for quit a while.
anything over 50% fuel to a -1a is like adding extra drop tanks, and since its not really a bomber, there is no reason to carry 1 1000 pounder, so u wont have to worry about the bomb rack.
the -1a is second to the -4 only in terms of dogfighting.
In my honest opinion i think its more efficent than the -4 because u dont draw as much attention to yourself.
Either way, u must really learn a corsair to fly it affectivly because it is a VERY UNFORGIVING PLANE.
If u mess up u can lose alot of Energy or stall among other things as well.
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Originally posted by Patches1
It doesn't matter which Corsair I fly, -1, -1A, -1C, -1D, -4....
I still get killed in them ;-)
That reminds me. Fun fight the other day. you left the arena before I could send you a salute. So . (F4U-1C vs F4U-1A)
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Originally posted by Murdr
Did you happen to collect the turn DPSs Widewing?
My data with full flaps...
F4U-4: 19.9 dps
F4U-1A: 19.7 dps
F4U-1D: 19.6 dps
F4U-1: 19.5 dps
F4U-1C: 19.0 dps
Mosq's data with full flaps.... His data predates the F4U-1A.
F4U-4: 19.7 dps
F4U-1D: 19.4 dps
F4U-1: 19.3 dps
F4U-1C: 18.7 dps
My regards,
Widewing
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Trigger,
My point is that by the time a 1D and 1A enter combat, they're both flying on roughly the same internal fuel weight (1As burn their wings down, 1Ds carry a DT and release it entering combat -- which actually, depending on the situation sometimes I'll hold mine until I need to be able to turn) which at LEAST negates any advantage the D gains in carrying less fuel at a given percentage, and may now make the 1Ds heavier airframe a factor.
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well, when I fly the -1 or -1a, I use 75% fuel all the time. I keep the fuel selector on auto. When u get 75% fuel, there only 25% in each wing and 100% in main. Auto burns the main first. When it switches to wing tanks, that my ticket telling me to go home. Wing tanks will get u home at least 1-1.5 sectors home, unless u fuel conserve u can go 2 sectors on just the 25% wing tanks. 2nd reason for not using the wing tanks till I go home is for fuel leaks. Most fuel leaks I get are the main tank. Very rarely get a wing tank leak. Again my ticktet home.
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Always wondered why the two aircraft have the same light load of 10,010 lbs. (i.e. when both are dry of fuel and ammo).
I thought at first that maybe the D-hog's pylons and jabo mechanisms had a similar weight to the non-self-sealing wing tank system in the A-hog but can anyone enlighten me on that?
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i stoped flying the d because i found out where the fuel tank is guess where it is right in front of the cotpit it is right next to the canopy when on fire in real life it must get offily hot in there also you can go somewhere in the 1a
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Fuel tank fires burn for 30 seconds and then you explode REGARDLESS of what aircraft you're flying (except for Zekes, which burn for hours). Location has no effect on this in the game whatsoever.
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Originally posted by Widewing
My data with full flaps...
F4U-4: 19.9 dps
F4U-1A: 19.7 dps
F4U-1D: 19.6 dps
F4U-1: 19.5 dps
F4U-1C: 19.0 dps
Minimum Turn Radius, Sea Level, Full Flaps.
F4U-1A: 422 feet
F4U-1D: 427 feet
Thank you sir. I've been advising that excluding the C, turn performance is so close that it rarely would be a deciding factor. Glad to see numbers showing how close they actually are.
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still prefer the -1 over all others......better rear view, and never have had a problem with the birdcage others complain about
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I like -1 better to. I think it a better stall fighter.