Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: carhint on October 27, 2007, 08:14:39 PM

Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: carhint on October 27, 2007, 08:14:39 PM
Some time ago, on a quiet day in LW, I was flying over to pork a base when I got a call on 200 from someone in another country who wanted to know if I would be interested in a duel over the base I was flying to. I said sure.  I am such a poor pilot and when I get these requests I take people up on them since I always seem to learn from them.

We meet as agreed at about 10K SW off the base – and we went at it.  I pointed my nose at him three times and let my cannons rip.  “That’s three HOs I counted” said my opponent, just before he flipped his plane onto my six and blew me out of the air.

What was he thinking I said to myself – I didn’t HO him!  Later that day I found out that HO stood for Head On.  HO – Head On.  Head-On – HO.  (Even though I had been on the game for a year I had assumed that a HO was in effect a RAM.  Maybe my wife is right and I am just an idiot).

Well this event and posts here got me thinking about whether or not a HO is unethical, poor gamesmanship, etc.  What about the RAM, Spying, volching, etc.  Just what is unethical in Aces High?

I’m not sure that I always know.  But I thought that I would like to know your thoughts.  So here is a poll.

For purposes of this poll, I’ll define unethical behavior as behavior that is not illegal – but perhaps none-the-less wrong.  So for example – using a third party program to improve your fire is illegal – it is against the rules of the game – it is a cheat.  Spying is not a cheat, but is it still wrong?

You can vote for all, some or none of the poll questions below.  It is up to you.

If you think of other AH ethical questions let me know and I’ll see if I can add it to the list.


The HO
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/oqyctovk.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/oqyctovksp.html)

The RAM
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/yblfdkgh.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/yblfdkghsp.html)

The SPY
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/uqhswals.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/uqhswalssp.html)

The AIRFLIED TROOP DROOP
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/wyrylgsn.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/wyrylgsnsp.html)

The BOMB & BAIL
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/euhwcswm.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/euhwcswmsp.html)

The CHUTE Kill
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/qdrjboih.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/qdrjboihsp.html)

The FAKE 200 MESSAGE
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/nrmxpazy.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/nrmxpazysp.html)

The FAKE CHECK 6
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/qeiytztg.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/qeiytztgsp.html)

The TANK TOWN Capture
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/nbzgqjpg.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/nbzgqjpgsp.html)

The VOLCH
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/umvdelus.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/umvdelussp.html)


Poll and questions continued in another post (image limitations in forum)…
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll. PART II
Post by: carhint on October 27, 2007, 08:16:33 PM
See first POST for intro

The VH CAMP
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/yqvxwgeq.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/yqvxwgeqsp.html)

The BASE FLASH
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/abexauju.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/abexaujusp.html)

The AFK
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/fomsskpu.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/fomsskpusp.html)

The MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/kjqwzdcx.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/kjqwzdcxsp.html)

The Worst of the Worst
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/noaheurs.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/noaheurssp.html)
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Motherland on October 27, 2007, 08:41:37 PM
Its vulching by the way.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: AWMac on October 27, 2007, 08:50:20 PM
I vote that yer a skilless Squeaker.

:D

Mac
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: kamilyun on October 27, 2007, 08:52:02 PM
Nice set of polls.

Should be stickied.  I'd like to see how 100+ people vote
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Lusche on October 27, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/fomsskpu.gif)

You forgot another option:

"I know it isn't necessary to stay online to get war win perk points"


Furthermore, I have problems of applying the term "ethical" to most if not all of those questions...
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Meatwad on October 27, 2007, 09:29:05 PM
Is spamming with crybaby polls ethical?


NO - 100% (Eleventymillion votes)


Sorry, you lose.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Blooz on October 27, 2007, 09:29:30 PM
You left out the polls for having an altitude advantage, having a faster plane, having a tougher plane, having a tighter turning plane, using the sun to your advantage, having a numerical advantage and having more powerful guns.

All of these thing are, as we well know, unethical.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SD67 on October 27, 2007, 09:35:26 PM
Volch
:lol
Been flying with ghi a bit?
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Slash27 on October 27, 2007, 09:41:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by kamilyun
Nice set of polls.

Should be stickied.  I'd like to see how 100+ people vote


yep
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: NoBaddy on October 27, 2007, 09:54:18 PM
Geez....someone is in serious need of a life!
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Masherbrum on October 27, 2007, 10:30:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Geez....someone is in serious need of a life!
Shhhh NoBaddy, you'll give him a complex!
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Snubby on October 27, 2007, 10:39:51 PM
I don't HO, flying the 9U that is a losing proposition..

but it doesent bother me either..

all it ever does for me is give me confidence..

if a come across a con and their first act is to go for the HO, it lets me know that after I dodge it, im going to make short work of said con, as I see HOing not as a tactic, but as a lack there of.. after the inital pass.. just meat on the plate..
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Mark Luper on October 27, 2007, 11:19:44 PM
Wow! Hey guys, this is a Game!

Just relax and enjoy it. Play your game and let others play theirs.

Mark
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Dace on October 27, 2007, 11:28:17 PM
Some want to make this game progress in a positive direction. In that sense this is relevant IMO.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Sloehand on October 28, 2007, 01:18:17 AM
Besides, he did a very good job of putting this poll together.  
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: UNIstrut on October 28, 2007, 02:43:29 AM
Nice Poll. Voted on all :)
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: trigger2 on October 28, 2007, 03:53:15 AM
The HO was NOT done in Real Life. Maybe on one or two accounts it would be done, but in RL they saw the risks of it. Usually both planes would go down. Usually wasn't such small numbers as we see in AHII so after you shoot down one or two, you can't come over your area vox and say your goin home, you gotta stay and fight till they either head for the hills or are all dead. (Persoanlly I wouldn't care much for fighting a A6m in a p38 [US's main primary fighter] with missing aeilrons, elevators, fuel hits, wing chunks missing etc...) If I were to engage zekes or KI's or something, I'd wanna STAY in my prime, not risk it for an easy kill/death. The HO was usually done widespread (20-50 guys lined up on each side) the few times it was done when it was, all the pilots regarded it as "Playing chicken" or "seeing which one would pull out of it first"
In other words, none wanted to do it. It's cheap, takes minimal skill, and WASN'T done in RL. It was not apart of the AF's for any country (even Germany's and they had ramming 109's, so, in all truth, you can argue that a 109 ramming a bomber is historically accurate)

But try not to confuse a HO for a HM (Hot Merge)
I love when your in a stall fight (usually my corsair) and on the merge, you pull the trigger and you get accused of a HO. HO's aren't in my bag of tricks (unless i'm in the 1c and they initiate it, then I let the 20mm's do the talking :] )
HM's and HO's are two different things with similar outcomes.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: whiteman on October 28, 2007, 04:45:47 AM
spam, what two threads?

You need another, is crying about someones post on the intertubez ethical or lame.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Trukk on October 28, 2007, 06:14:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life.

Sure it was, it certainly wasn't a pilot's first choice but guys often found themselves in that situation and duked it out.  I can think of several accounts I've read about, from the AVG to the Black Sheep where pilots describe doing head on attacks.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Ghosth on October 28, 2007, 07:45:24 AM
There is no ram, there are collisions, but to actually TRY to ram someone to cause damage, is 99999 to 1 against succeeding.

Next, if your going to cry foul to the HO make sure you get the definition right.
There is NO foul for a forward quarter shot in a turn or manuver fight.
Like duelers with the first merge "cold", first merge coming into someone I don't shoot. After that ANYTHING FLIPPING GOES, because your fighting for your life.

Ohh and yes it WAS used Extensively in the Pacific, were we had better armor, more guns, and could shoot and get out.

Multiple accounts make HTC money, thats what they are here for. You going to somehow shut them down? ROFLMAO, yeah right.  Let me give you a clue, call HT and talk to him for half an hour.

All the rest of the things your crying about are just that. Stuff to cry about.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Helm on October 28, 2007, 08:00:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life.


I have read many many accounts of head on passes in the War
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: waystin2 on October 28, 2007, 09:06:20 AM
Good job on the poll.  Some terminology and ideas need to be polished a bit more.  Definitely relevant to get the communities opinion.  This method is so much better than the usual craptalk opinion threads we end up with.
Title: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: A8TOOL on October 28, 2007, 11:09:02 AM
The BOMB & BAIL
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/euhwcswm.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/euhwcswmsp.html)

The CHUTE Kill
(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/qdrjboih.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/qdrjboihsp.html)

 IMO the two worst violations are these.

Bomb and bail shows no skill or guts especially when they know someone is in pursuit of them.

Shooting chutes used to be considered one of the worst offenses someone could make against you in the game. It was a show of total lack of respect and hatred toward a player. There was no worse personal statement that could be made in Air Warrior to early Aces high.
Title: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Bronk on October 28, 2007, 11:30:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by A8TOOL


Shooting chutes used to be considered one of the worst offenses someone could make against you in the game. It was a show of total lack of respect and hatred toward a player. There was no worse personal statement that could be made in Air Warrior to early Aces high.


Right, that's why in AW people would wait till 800 above ground lvl to pull the ripcord.
Title: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Lusche on October 28, 2007, 12:12:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by A8TOOL

Shooting chutes used to be considered one of the worst offenses someone could make against you in the game. It was a show of total lack of respect and hatred toward a player.


If you bail where it doesn't matter, I'll ignore you. Float down & have fun.

However, if you hang in the air over my own vehicle base and spot GV's for your friends, or you bail over your own maproom for obvious reasons, I'll give you 10 seconds to type ".ef" - after that you go "splat". And that's not a matter of hatred.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: xtyger on October 28, 2007, 12:43:10 PM
Just a comment on head ons:

I don't really understand the problem some have with head ons. Sure, it may be a sign of lack of skill in some but newer flyers are going to take advantage of every shot they can get. They have to. It may be their last.

Besides, I figure head ons give me a 50/50 chance of survival. Regardless of how good a shot one might be, there's still internet lag and such that could run against you.

I rarely initiate a head on any more, but don't have problems with those who do.

Oh, and don't we agree that after the first pass it's not considered a head on? I was told that one flyer was poking fun at me on channel 200 (I don't use channel 200) boasting about how I tried to HO him and got my just rewards when he won the HO.

Well, we'd already been sparring for probably ten minutes when I made the choice of taking a frontal shot. It was either that, or let his compatriot have enough time to get back into the fight where I'd have two cons to deal with. I tried to take him out fast to try and clear the field to deal with his buddy.

As it was, I got shot down. I took a chance, after an extended fight and lost. What's the beef?
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Stang on October 28, 2007, 12:45:14 PM
Chutes are made to be shot.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Bronk on October 28, 2007, 12:52:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
Chutes are made to be shot.

I lost a good furby film or I'd post it.:t
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: splitatom on October 28, 2007, 02:09:43 PM
i hate spys they are cheap and anyone that is convicted of being a spy should be baned and shot
Title: Re: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: A8TOOL on October 28, 2007, 02:16:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche


However, if you hang in the air over my own vehicle base and spot GV's for your friends, or you bail over your own maproom for obvious reasons, I'll give you 10 seconds to type ".ef" - after that you go "splat". And that's not a matter of hatred.



LOL Lusche, understandably so.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Vad on October 28, 2007, 03:55:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life.  


It was not only widely used in RL it was directly recommended in some cases. Recommendations for La-5 pilots directly advised to use HO against 109s. You  would have 90 to 10 percents chances to win.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: pluck on October 28, 2007, 09:02:43 PM
great, a HO and chute all rolled into one!

HO, ya, it was used it real life...though usually when other options where less viable.....fortunately this game is not real life.

Than again, I believe a chute or 2 where shot in real life too......also, thankfully this game is not real life.


But it seems reasonable to apply real life situations during war, to a game, and to the characters that plays the a game :rolleyes: makes perfect sense.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Stang on October 29, 2007, 01:05:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
I lost a good furby film or I'd post it.:t
Junnt was his name.

:t
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: trigger2 on October 29, 2007, 01:31:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Helm
Quote
Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life.


I have read many many accounts of head on passes in the War


as I said, through pilot descriptions of this, they were done with a large number of planes and it was like playing chicken. Which is exactly what they called it...
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on October 29, 2007, 02:01:49 AM
I think this is a good idea, and gives the community a good place to talk about these things. I have not read every post, and instead just wanted to write what I thought.

It comes down to those who play this in true WWII style, and those who want to kill such and such as fast as possible without real skill because it doesn't matter what happens to them.

HO's are real, but HO's happen here like 50-60% of the time, while in WWII, most pilots would avoid a HO simpley because they wish to ensure they live. They wouldn't turn away from it if they could win and all that, but it was used WAY less. Also, alot of pilots in AH don't care about landing, there is even a squad based on this. They jump sides and just want to rake in kills, and bailing the moment they need ammo/fuel. Alot of pilots regulate thier fuel so they can make it home, a real part of war.

The RAM was used in kamikazi attacks with great effect, but those pilots never refined the skill, nor did they regularly use it on fighters, why? THEY DIED. Now, the Germans rammed too at the end of the war, but they did it to Bombers 99% of the time, and were trained to bail. One try, none of this ram, turn, ram, turn ram, you die, they live even having rammed you 3 times (I have a video of someone doing this, and staying airborn long enough to kill me again then land, he hasn't been on since I sent HT the video) But the idea remains. It was a one shot deal, and the bombers went down more often than not, but the pilot died about 60% of the time too, and 100% of the time lost his plane.

Spies were a normal practice in WWII, but they also had the ability to counter act the practices. In AH, I can PM the other side and tell them what's going on, and if the other end is a close friend, NO ONE would ever know, and this creates a problem. In War, a spy is caught and killed, here, we can't even catch them. Not because we're dumb, but because we do not have the means to do such, IE this gives an unfair advantage, and should be a bannable offense for all parties. And as much as I know I'll get flak, I think PM's between sides should be stopped. you can tune to 200 or switch sides IMO.

Vulching is one of those problems no one should whine about. Why? If you're dumb enough to up on a capped, or even semi capped feild and get vulched.. well, too bad, shouldn't have done that. It's like saying: I'm immune to  your cap so I can break it here instead of having to come from another base to reinforce. Deal with the vulch.

The most unethical of all though IMO is the graphics turn down with GV's. I have many videos of people blatently using this as a tactical advantage, that can't be counter-acted. Here's why: I'm in a forest 3.5k from base. Enemy GV is on base. Because I am in the trees, even if I had graphics turned down, I can't see dude because I'm so close to the trees, they won't vanish, but dude can see me. The very thing I'm trying to use as cover has become my worst enemy. Now, this game requires two things with GV's a faster finger and a good ranger.. it no longer requires hiding, placement and the like, or to a minimal extent. I have a very nice and fast computer, I want to see the graphics, and I want to use trees like they did in WWII, as cover, not as a target on me saying kill me. With this, it's actually more benificial to have a slow crappy computer. This happens to be the only game I've ever played that gives advantage to crappy computers and punishes good ones.

With that said, I'lll remind you all of one last tidbit. Ramming, while not nice, isn';t always the players fault. Remember, each of us is in our own world in the game, and because of slight lag, we each exist in a slightly diffrent location than we see. That is how you get the one sided collisions 99% of the time. The others come from stupid people running into you in stalls, as they try to rip you up, or HO you (remember, HOing is a form of chicken, and few on AH are willing to turn because they don't care if they die). So, next time you whine about ramming, ask yourself: how did it happen, before you tell someone they suck because they ram you (now if they were stupid, came in at 450, fired and rammed into you, yeah, they are salamanders, but if it was a HO or something like that..l. whatcha gonna do)
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Sloehand on October 29, 2007, 03:05:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life. Maybe on one or two accounts it would be done, but in RL they saw the risks of it. Usually both planes would go down. Usually wasn't such small numbers as we see in AHII so after you shoot down one or two, you can't come over your area vox and say your goin home, you gotta stay and fight till they either head for the hills or are all dead. (Persoanlly I wouldn't care much for fighting a A6m in a p38 [US's main primary fighter] with missing aeilrons, elevators, fuel hits, wing chunks missing etc...) If I were to engage zekes or KI's or something, I'd wanna STAY in my prime, not risk it for an easy kill/death. The HO was usually done widespread (20-50 guys lined up on each side) the few times it was done when it was, all the pilots regarded it as "Playing chicken" or "seeing which one would pull out of it first"
In other words, none wanted to do it. It's cheap, takes minimal skill, and WASN'T done in RL. It was not apart of the AF's for any country (even Germany's and they had ramming 109's, so, in all truth, you can argue that a 109 ramming a bomber is historically accurate)

But try not to confuse a HO for a HM (Hot Merge)
I love when your in a stall fight (usually my corsair) and on the merge, you pull the trigger and you get accused of a HO. HO's aren't in my bag of tricks (unless i'm in the 1c and they initiate it, then I let the 20mm's do the talking :] )
HM's and HO's are two different things with similar outcomes.


You don't know what you're talking about.  There are many, many accounts of pilots purposely going for and staying in an HO merge to get a kill.  The AVG did it often against the lighter armed and armored Japanese army planes as did the Navy and Marines when necessary.

Don't even get started on what the Russians were willing to do.  I'm guessing to them, the HO was probably one of the least dangerous tactics they employed regularly.  LOL

The Germans had a RamKommando Elbe group not for HO, but to ram and clip off the tail of bombers.  They too have their accounts of HO engagements.

It happened all the time in RL.  Learn some history.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Yknurd on October 29, 2007, 12:13:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by A8TOOL
Shooting chutes used to be considered one of the worst offenses someone could make against you in the game. It was a show of total lack of respect and hatred toward a player. There was no worse personal statement that could be made in Air Warrior to early Aces high.


My Chute-Shooting Whine-O-Meter™ just went off.

Remember, shooting chutes isn't personal, it's just good clean fun!

Unless you don't like the person, then it's good clean fun with personal hatred for good measure!
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Dead Man Flying on October 29, 2007, 12:25:52 PM
heh, I was gonna say, Drunky.  I dunno what AW A8TOOL flew, but it surely wasn't the chute-bustingly hilarious one I did.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Carwash on October 29, 2007, 12:42:17 PM
Nice set of polls.  People here whine about everything, even polls they don't have to participate in.  Don't listen to them.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Tiger on October 29, 2007, 01:03:00 PM
I like the idea of these polls... let's you know how the community feels without having to read all teh whines.


You need to add 2 questions:

1) Should the LA-7 be perked?
2) Should we have the B-29


Just to finish out all the major trends of the boards.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Lusche on October 29, 2007, 01:11:57 PM
And who not add a collision poll? :t

- collisions should be disabled
- both should go down, they do in real life
- collision model is fine


I think the poll result could really make me laugh :D
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: 5PointOh on October 29, 2007, 01:33:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
And who not add a collision poll? :t

- collisions should be disabled
- both should go down, they do in real life
- collision model is fine


I think the poll result could really make me laugh :D


I'd like to pick-both should go down, they do in real life.  Not that it will happen, but thats my choice.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: MajIssue on October 29, 2007, 02:08:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Meatwad
Is spamming with crybaby polls ethical?


NO - 100% (Eleventymillion votes)


Sorry, you lose.

Also: Is being a jerk and flaming a new guy who is only trying to find out what is and isn't acceptable in the MAs ethical?
Sorry you're a looser
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Scca on October 29, 2007, 03:28:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
Also: Is being a jerk and flaming a new guy who is only trying to find out what is and isn't acceptable in the MAs ethical?
Sorry you're a looser
Ouch...
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: BaldEagl on October 29, 2007, 03:37:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
Also: Is being a jerk and flaming a new guy who is only trying to find out what is and isn't acceptable in the MAs ethical?
Sorry you're a looser


I'm sorry but 16 months in-game doesn't exactly make him a new guy, nor does his apparent intimate knowledge of the most common whines expressed both on 200 and in the BBs.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Scca on October 29, 2007, 03:47:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SEseph
The most unethical of all though IMO is the graphics turn down with GV's. I have many videos of people blatently using this as a tactical advantage, that can't be counter-acted. Here's why: I'm in a forest 3.5k from base. Enemy GV is on base. Because I am in the trees, even if I had graphics turned down, I can't see dude because I'm so close to the trees, they won't vanish, but dude can see me. The very thing I'm trying to use as cover has become my worst enemy. Now, this game requires two things with GV's a faster finger and a good ranger.. it no longer requires hiding, placement and the like, or to a minimal extent. I have a very nice and fast computer, I want to see the graphics, and I want to use trees like they did in WWII, as cover, not as a target on me saying kill me. With this, it's actually more benificial to have a slow crappy computer. This happens to be the only game I've ever played that gives advantage to crappy computers and punishes good ones.


I agree..  I wish you could use cover like a real tank would.  The part about getting kilt because you were close to the tree and couldn't see the bad guy, but he was far enough away to see and kill you does stink..
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Bronk on October 29, 2007, 04:06:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
And who not add a collision poll? :t

- collisions should be disabled
- both should go down, they do in real life
- collision model is fine


I think the poll result could really make me laugh :D



Quote
Originally posted by 5PointOh
I'd like to pick-both should go down, they do in real life.  Not that it will happen, but thats my choice.


Start laughing Lusche because I am.:rofl
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: rpm on October 29, 2007, 04:36:07 PM
Good poll. I voted in all.

Spying happened in the real world, but when they were caught they were killed. Maybe a 7 day ban would slow that down a bit. It's a win/win situation. It would reduce spying and HTC would get a bunch of new accounts for they guys that just gotta spy.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Mr No Name on October 30, 2007, 02:48:15 PM
If you do not like spying, remove the incentives to switch sides and remove the arena caps so that joining players can fill in the side-balance gaps
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Messiah on October 30, 2007, 06:35:14 PM
I found it interesting to say the least on the number of Yes for vulching yet the whining about vulching is so common.
Title: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Messiah on October 30, 2007, 06:39:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by A8TOOL
Shooting chutes used to be considered one of the worst offenses someone could make against you in the game. It was a show of total lack of respect and hatred toward a player. There was no worse personal statement that could be made in Air Warrior to early Aces high.


I do it all the time.  I fly this game to have fun not to earn E-Respect and if that means shooting a chute knowing the other guy is going to boil over a cartoon parachute because of it all the better LOL.
Title: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on October 30, 2007, 07:13:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by A8TOOL

Shooting chutes used to be considered one of the worst offenses someone could make against you in the game. It was a show of total lack of respect and hatred toward a player. There was no worse personal statement that could be made in Air Warrior to early Aces high.


Personally, I'd rather leave a chute. While the guy can see things around him, he really can't hurt you, and that's one less pilot in the air, even though he is active. Now if he's spotting in a good way for his side, I'll shoot him down in a heart beat.
Title: Re: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: toonces3 on October 30, 2007, 07:21:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Messiah
I do it all the time.  I fly this game to have fun not to earn E-Respect and if that means shooting a chute knowing the other guy is going to boil over a cartoon parachute because of it all the better LOL.


That's a really ****ty attitude there bud.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Dead Man Flying on October 30, 2007, 07:33:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
That's a really ****ty attitude there bud.


What's worse... shooting pixels in an online computer game, knowing that it will upset the person associated with those pixels?  Or getting upset about having your pixels "shot down" by someone?

Let's face it, Messiah may be a jerk, but the other guy is a dork.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: FrodeMk3 on October 30, 2007, 08:00:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Blooz
You left out the polls for having an altitude advantage, having a faster plane, having a tougher plane, having a tighter turning plane, using the sun to your advantage, having a numerical advantage and having more powerful guns.

All of these thing are, as we well know, unethical.


Because, Blooz, if it's not apparent to anyone who read through and did all of the polls, that said polls mainly concern what most would call "toolshedding, win-teh-war" style of play. Only one or two questions' really pertain to the "massive furballing Air-Quake" type of air-to-air play that some prefer.

I'm suprised that Storch or Fugitive or someone else hasn't pointed this out before.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on October 30, 2007, 08:01:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
What's worse... shooting pixels in an online computer game, knowing that it will upset the person associated with those pixels?  Or getting upset about having your pixels "shot down" by someone?

Let's face it, Messiah may be a jerk, but the other guy is a dork.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Anyone notice the word "game" flung around alot? The next time someone says: Don't get mad, it's a game, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.. go to a soccor match in Ireland and sit next to a bunch of really big guys who are very drunk and comeptetive. Then, when the other team scores.. tell them: don't get upset, you're a dork, it's just a game. After this, please write us from ICU and let us know the results. Alos, if it's a game.. why the piss are professional athletes paid so much? it's just a game after all.. but they use real bodies to form image with pixels on your TV screen.. oh well.. OH OH WAIT HERE"s another: Those who are married or very serious with a person, go to a casino and dump 100,000, lose it, then explain: Honey, it's just a game!

Just because people get infinitye lives, or only pay 15 dollars doesn't mean they are dorks for getting uset. t'sall in perspective. 'm noyt going to riot if my team loses a big game.. but others will, and go to jail and think nothing of it. Most of the time, when one can't emphasize with others, it means either: they think they are better, or they have some sort of mental disorder (Anti-social Personality Disorder is the most common with this trait). You can tell them to calm down, or hell, you could even realize that you get kicks outa making people mad (meaning you have a sadistic side) and then telling them it's only a game. Well, you know well enough in this 'Game' that you get joy from making others mad.. well, some get joy from being good and not having people say every timke they are unhappy: It's just a game.

One last example. Someone from Boston I hope reads this. You who think it's just a game.. yall shoulda been in Boston and when the parade started.. scream: IT'S JUST A GAME WHY THE HELL DO YOU CARE.. Again, when you wake up in the ICU.. please write us.





P.S. People are brave online when they know people won't bash thier face in. (Replies like: you're a pansey, or you're like that too are expected because no one will admit they won't say it.. they might look bad to thier friends)
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Dead Man Flying on October 30, 2007, 10:21:05 PM
LOL seSEPH.

It IS "just a game."  Tell me, how much money do YOU make on Aces High?  It's not soccer.  It's not football.  It's not even Little League.  It's a computer game.  Your ridiculous rant only serves to prove my point that people take this game, and all games, too seriously.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Snubby on October 30, 2007, 11:07:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
LOL seSEPH.

It IS "just a game."  Tell me, how much money do YOU make on Aces High?  It's not soccer.  It's not football.  It's not even Little League.  It's a computer game.  Your ridiculous rant only serves to prove my point that people take this game, and all games, too seriously.

-- Todd/Leviathn


I cant help but picture the following:


a dark room, walls painted flat black..

in the middle of the room is a computer, the computer chair.. is a toilet, next to it. an IV bag... surrounding the monitor is a crude mockup of a 109 cockpit, forged with sweat, tears, and insanity.. from trashcan lids, saran wrap and various objects stolen from the neighbors shed..  above the monitor, a picture of skuzzy, the frame is round and resembles a pizza crust..

there is a closet in said room but contains only home made leather man panties and trench coats.

the neighbors make their kids walk to school on the other side of the street due to the mechanical, explosive and profane sounds that echo from the house at all hours of the nights..

anyone who has lived on this street more than a year remembers the fateful night when, without explanation a hand made fake sheep was found burning in the middle of road, some sort of crude ethegy, with the letters E.N.Y written in what was thought to be blood but turned out to be pizza sauce.










:huh
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: kamilyun on October 30, 2007, 11:14:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SEseph
Follow the herd!!!111!!!
 
(http://www.thebigsheep.co.uk/family-attractions/pictures/large/race.jpg)


Seriously, who cares if a bunch of drunks get all worked up over sweaty men in uniform.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on October 31, 2007, 12:03:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
LOL seSEPH.

It IS "just a game."  Tell me, how much money do YOU make on Aces High?  It's not soccer.  It's not football.  It's not even Little League.  It's a computer game.  Your ridiculous rant only serves to prove my point that people take this game, and all games, too seriously.

-- Todd/Leviathn


I take it seriously because I want to. It seems if people want something you don't.. they are chastized. But when you even care what others say and you try to convince them otherwise.. then you're taking the stance you oppose. Why read these BBs if you don't take it even half serious?. You're just cranky I have time to play all day and night, and even make money at other games I play... on average 800 a month. So.. how's them apples
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Stoney74 on October 31, 2007, 01:10:34 AM
73% of all statistics are made up on the spot...
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on October 31, 2007, 01:30:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
73% of all statistics are made up on the spot...


lol with that one it's now 74% ;)

My figure is a guestimate.. I've made from nothing (obviously) to my largest which was 3,000 (I sold a whole account on Ebay for almost 3k, so it's easier to use that number) and I pull in a decent amount. It's not exact, and I don't feel like going back the past 3 years and taking the time to figure out the exact number. but it's a large amount, and it pays my rent, that's what matters :)
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on October 31, 2007, 01:36:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Snubby
I cant help but picture the following:


a dark room, walls painted flat black..

in the middle of the room is a computer, the computer chair.. is a toilet, next to it. an IV bag... surrounding the monitor is a crude mockup of a 109 cockpit, forged with sweat, tears, and insanity.. from trashcan lids, saran wrap and various objects stolen from the neighbors shed..  above the monitor, a picture of skuzzy, the frame is round and resembles a pizza crust..

there is a closet in said room but contains only home made leather man panties and trench coats.

the neighbors make their kids walk to school on the other side of the street due to the mechanical, explosive and profane sounds that echo from the house at all hours of the nights..

anyone who has lived on this street more than a year remembers the fateful night when, without explanation a hand made fake sheep was found burning in the middle of road, some sort of crude ethegy, with the letters E.N.Y written in what was thought to be blood but turned out to be pizza sauce.










:huh


LOL I had a shipmate who's home office resembled that.. the man even learned to sleep sitting up.. Talk about obsession hehe (was Ever Crack though.. he didn't like combat sims)
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: rpm on October 31, 2007, 02:27:23 AM
Chutes are FAC's (if they know what they are doing). Shooting them down is no disrespect. If they don't want to be shot they can .ef out of the scene.
That's a huge difference in chute killing here and chute killing in AW.

Vulching is vulching. If you are dumb enough to try and up from a capped field, you get what you deserve. Persistance may pay off eventually, but it pads the vulcher's k/d ratio in the meantime.

Spying is as weak as it gets. Period.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: ColKLink on October 31, 2007, 06:47:32 AM
I wonder where he gets his facts".....ho's most certainly were part of ww2 air combat. Tell a 110 pilot, he cant ho,.......:D
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: ColKLink on October 31, 2007, 06:50:54 AM
I love to shoot a parachute, expecially after a good long , hard to win dogfight, I kinda like to "put the cheery on top" with a chute kill. Take that to the tower with ya :):cool:
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Dead Man Flying on October 31, 2007, 09:00:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SEseph
I take it seriously because I want to. It seems if people want something you don't.. they are chastized. But when you even care what others say and you try to convince them otherwise.. then you're taking the stance you oppose. Why read these BBs if you don't take it even half serious?. You're just cranky I have time to play all day and night, and even make money at other games I play... on average 800 a month. So.. how's them apples


I don't even know who you are.  Why would I be cranky?  LOL

That you take the game too seriously is your problem, not mine.  If my shooting your chute makes you upset, again, that is your problem and not mine.  Don't like it?  Get back in the air, shoot me down, and blast my chute.  Except you won't find me in a chute since I never bail.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Saurdaukar on October 31, 2007, 09:13:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't even know who you are.  Why would I be cranky?  LOL

That you take the game too seriously is your problem, not mine.  If my shooting your chute makes you upset, again, that is your problem and not mine.  Don't like it?  Get back in the air, shoot me down, and blast my chute.  Except you won't find me in a chute since I never bail.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Ah, so you *are* still around here.  Came back three weeks ago and was just commenting to a squaddy yesterday that I havent seen your Dweebfire V yet.  ;)
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: A8balls on October 31, 2007, 09:15:46 AM
If the chute is anywhere near a maproom, it's dead. Other than that I leave them alone.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: MajIssue on October 31, 2007, 10:02:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm sorry but 16 months in-game doesn't exactly make him a new guy, nor does his apparent intimate knowledge of the most common whines expressed both on 200 and in the BBs.


New guy... maybe not, but that doesn't make Meatwad's rant any less classless. Carhint is trying to guage "public opinion" within our "community" and while anyone can disagree with the opinions he gathered, why should someone be critical of the effort? Kudos to carhint for all the work he did to make the poll! I have wondered about this subject myself after reading some of the scrolling whines on 200.

:aok
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: MajIssue on October 31, 2007, 10:04:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ColKLink
I love to shoot a parachute, expecially after a good long , hard to win dogfight, I kinda like to "put the cheery on top" with a chute kill. Take that to the tower with ya :):cool:

BOO :p
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: toonces3 on October 31, 2007, 11:33:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't even know who you are.  Why would I be cranky?  LOL

That you take the game too seriously is your problem, not mine.  If my shooting your chute makes you upset, again, that is your problem and not mine.  Don't like it?  Get back in the air, shoot me down, and blast my chute.  Except you won't find me in a chute since I never bail.

-- Todd/Leviathn


You don't appear to fly, either, unless your ingame name is something other than Todd or Leviathn
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SunBat on October 31, 2007, 12:01:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SEseph
Anyone notice the word "game" flung around alot? The next time someone says: Don't get mad, it's a game, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.. go to a soccor match in Ireland....


All you've done with your entire post is prove that the world is full of maladjusted people...
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Dead Man Flying on October 31, 2007, 12:40:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
You don't appear to fly, either, unless your ingame name is something other than Todd or Leviathn


It's Leviathn, and I've been popping chutes for the better part of 11 years now.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: 68Ripper on October 31, 2007, 01:19:12 PM
Is it ethical to have such a bad connection that you are able to fire 1 to 2 rounds off from your tank AFTER you have already been killed as CARHINT does? Been telling him on 200 for almost a year now how bad his connection is.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on October 31, 2007, 01:37:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't even know who you are.  Why would I be cranky?  LOL

That you take the game too seriously is your problem, not mine.  If my shooting your chute makes you upset, again, that is your problem and not mine.  Don't like it?  Get back in the air, shoot me down, and blast my chute.  Except you won't find me in a chute since I never bail.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Probelm? again, you seem to speak without thought. I do it because I can. Second, read closer, oh one who speaks without the help of thier mind. I never complained about chutes.. (Pay attention, it doesn't cost anything) I don't even use them.. the moment I bail, I hit /.ef No point in taking the time to open a worthless chute, you still get the bail/capture. Do me a favor.. atleast if you're going to reply.. use that small mass of grey matter between your ears. I know it's hard.. it doesn't get much use, but try for me, k?

And as for being cranky... Apparently I am the only possible source of your crankiness by that reply. I get cranky when I don't sleep, or don't eat, and it comes across. I am honored though that I was the only thing ever to be considered able to make you cranky ;)
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on October 31, 2007, 01:39:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SunBat
All you've done with your entire post is prove that the world is full of maladjusted people...


Welcome to planet earth... obviously you haven't been here long, or that statement wouldn't have been nessicary.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Messiah on October 31, 2007, 01:40:07 PM
LOL levi I think we struck a nerve here.  If it's any consolation I after the chute kill; I need all the E respect I can muster!
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: toonces3 on October 31, 2007, 01:46:20 PM
Well, I had to go back quite a while to find any scores for you, but yes indeed you seem to have been playing a while.

Looks like you spend most of your time in GV's, but you also appear to be quite lethal when you decide to take up a fighter.  

In all fairness, though, I didn't see a single bail in the few tours I checked.

Edit: This was in response to Leviathn
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: toonces3 on October 31, 2007, 01:56:44 PM
Well, Messiah, it's like this.

Ever since I got popped in my chute my first tour, I learned about the whole .ef thing, and unless you are very very quick, you're not going to get me in it.

But, really, that's besides the point.  The point is the mentality of someone that derives pleasure from irritating someone else, deliberately, and for no other purpose than to irritate them.  

Lusche made a perfectly valid point about shooting a chute.  If the guy is bailing over your town or is using it in some manner to exploit the game, then sure, he's fair game.

If the guy lost a fight, bailed and then someone shoots his chute just to make him mad or get a cherry on top or whatever, well, that makes that person an *******.

Maybe I'm alone here, but in general I find that folks don't turn on and off their character.  If you're an ******* in an online game, you're probably an ******* in real life too.

Just my opinion of course.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Messiah on October 31, 2007, 02:10:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
Maybe I'm alone here, but in general I find that folks don't turn on and off their character.  If you're an ******* in an online game, you're probably an ******* in real life too.

Just my opinion of course.



That's because some people don't realize it's just a game for fun.  I do, which is what separates me from my virtual self and real self.  In game I like to have fun and shoot chutes because I find it hilarious and all the better if the guy I shot gets his panties in a bunch because of it.  Now why do I find this funny you probably wonder?  Because my state of mind knows it's just a game and taking things like getting killed in a cartoon parachute seriously is hilarious.  If some may see this as me being an "*******" then so be it, because I know I could chill with any of the people playing this game and they would have a totally different opinion of me(be it bad or good).
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Yknurd on October 31, 2007, 02:40:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
You don't appear to fly, either, unless your ingame name is something other than Todd or Leviathn


I checked your name on the Mensa roll, apparently you're not very smart.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: toonces3 on October 31, 2007, 02:57:49 PM
Well, the world needs ditchdiggers too.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Tiger on October 31, 2007, 03:07:54 PM
They should remove .ef from chutes, make them ride them it all the way down before they can .ef
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Bronk on October 31, 2007, 03:32:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3


Looks like you spend most of your time in GV's,

 


:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

My sides hurt now. Thats the funniest thing I've read in a while.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Dead Man Flying on October 31, 2007, 03:39:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SEseph
And as for being cranky... Apparently I am the only possible source of your crankiness by that reply. I get cranky when I don't sleep, or don't eat, and it comes across. I am honored though that I was the only thing ever to be considered able to make you cranky ;)


Read much?  I laughed at you suggesting I was "cranky."  It was you who made that suggestion, not me.  It is baseless and wrong, as is pretty much everything else you've written up to this point.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Dead Man Flying on October 31, 2007, 03:40:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
Looks like you spend most of your time in GV's, but you also appear to be quite lethal when you decide to take up a fighter.  


:confused:
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SuperDud on October 31, 2007, 04:01:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
Well, I had to go back quite a while to find any scores for you, but yes indeed you seem to have been playing a while.

Looks like you spend most of your time in GV's, but you also appear to be quite lethal when you decide to take up a fighter.  

In all fairness, though, I didn't see a single bail in the few tours I checked.

Edit: This was in response to Leviathn
U r clueless.

As for chute shooting, it's hilarious espicially when I know it pisses guys like SEseph off. And as to his soccer analogy, that's a different world. It's what I like to call the real world. But in the world of pixels, it's totally different. You aren't going to get punched in the face in AH unlike in the real world. It doesn't make being a jerk ok, but once again it's just a game. And unless you love your fake AH country like you love your sports team then you should be ok. And if you do... well then it's time to get out into the sun light.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: toonces3 on October 31, 2007, 07:13:25 PM
Am I missing something here?

Leviathn did not fly in tours:
93 (LW)
92
91
90
89
88
87
86
85
84
83

tour 82 I started finding some stats- not many sorties, but lethal ones.
no bails in the 3 or so I went back.

I did make another mistake.  I got mixed up, I thought it was Attack/Veh.  not Veh/Boat.

The only thing I wanted to verify was if he 'never bailed' which it appears is true.  Why?  Because most of the times the folks that say that they don't care about score or whatever still ditch or bail.  I wanted to actually find someone that doesn't just talk the talk, but walks the walk.

Leviathn is the real deal.

I saw a fighter score, don't remember which tour but probably in the 60's or 70's, where he had a 46:1 K/D in fighters.  That's pretty freaking lethal man.

That's all I was saying.  I admited I was wrong about him not flying (should have qualified that with 'not recently' but such is life), I just didn't go back far enough.

I'm pretty sure Leviathn can defend himself, even though I wasn't attacking him.  No need for the gallery to chime in.



On the original topic:
Yes, this is just a game.  But it's an online game against other people.  I find it hard to separate the attitude that, because it's a game on the internet, it's 'different' from playing a game against an opponent in person.  

In the same way that I wouldn't cheat or abuse another player in an 'in-person' game, I wouldn't do it here either.

A person doesn't check their character at the door when they come online to AH2.  But if telling yourself that 'well, it's just a game' makes you feel better about how you behave, nothing I'm going to say is going to change your mind.

I look forward to seeing y'all in the online skies.

Toonces
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: pluck on October 31, 2007, 07:37:33 PM
LOL, levi you noob.:)

This has turned into a very entertaining thread.

I also shoot chutes, or meat bombs if you prefer.  Obviously I am a person of low moral standing, faulty ethics.  I'm sure at some point the virtual police are going to knock down my virtual door and place me under arrest for pixel assination.  Of course, HTC, would also have to go down because after all they are responsible for allowing me to shoot them.  They gave me bulltets, a plane, and coded it.  Then again, maybe in this virtual world, HT is god and he is just testing me so that the next time my pixels are blown up, instead of getting a new plane, I'll go straight to pixel hell....which would mean I'm getting a life time subscription to WoW running around with a magic elf.....ya, you know.

After blowing up a meat bomb, I take some gratification knowing that without my efforts, AH would not be as intense.  Just think how boring it would be, If all the point dweebs were able to bail out safely every time with 0 risk, no worry of enemy.  I supply bailers with the thought of sheer terror evertime they see my guns firing on their chute, enhancing their gameplay.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Karnak on October 31, 2007, 07:44:10 PM
Intentional ramming is very rare.  Usually all that will happen is the guy who tries to ram sets himself up as an easy guns kill.  This is true probably 99% of the time.

Therefore your ramming poll is so leading as to be bull****.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Arlo on October 31, 2007, 08:09:59 PM
AH "ethics" threads are always good for a laugh. Right next to "chesspiece traitors" and "HTC is a tyrant" ones. I wish I could give kudos for baiting the masses but, unfortunately, this one comes off a bit too genuine ... and disconnected from what Aces High is - which is a game that doesn't enforce the artificial ethics some of it's players invent or imagine. Anything HTC thinks is wrong is dealt with immediately and harshly. If it doesn't show on their radar then the noise is nothing but sweet music to the ears of the initiated.

Even those who haven't flown a tour in ages, toonce.

:D
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SuperDud on October 31, 2007, 08:45:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by toonces3
Am I missing something here?

Leviathn did not fly in tours:
93 (LW)
92
91
90
89
88
87
86
85
84
83

tour 82 I started finding some stats- not many sorties, but lethal ones.
no bails in the 3 or so I went back.

I did make another mistake.  I got mixed up, I thought it was Attack/Veh.  not Veh/Boat.

The only thing I wanted to verify was if he 'never bailed' which it appears is true.  Why?  Because most of the times the folks that say that they don't care about score or whatever still ditch or bail.  I wanted to actually find someone that doesn't just talk the talk, but walks the walk.

Leviathn is the real deal.

I saw a fighter score, don't remember which tour but probably in the 60's or 70's, where he had a 46:1 K/D in fighters.  That's pretty freaking lethal man.

That's all I was saying.  I admited I was wrong about him not flying (should have qualified that with 'not recently' but such is life), I just didn't go back far enough.

I'm pretty sure Leviathn can defend himself, even though I wasn't attacking him.  No need for the gallery to chime in.



On the original topic:
Yes, this is just a game.  But it's an online game against other people.  I find it hard to separate the attitude that, because it's a game on the internet, it's 'different' from playing a game against an opponent in person.  

In the same way that I wouldn't cheat or abuse another player in an 'in-person' game, I wouldn't do it here either.

A person doesn't check their character at the door when they come online to AH2.  But if telling yourself that 'well, it's just a game' makes you feel better about how you behave, nothing I'm going to say is going to change your mind.

I look forward to seeing y'all in the online skies.

Toonces
Naw toonces I was commenting on your vehcle thing. Lev rarley climbs into 1. As for fighters, he is one of the most lethal pile-its ever known in the game. You are correct he hasn't played recently. He busy pretending he's an elf princess in WoW.

As for having troubles believing some can seperate this from real life competition you don't know the BKs as well as some others well enough then. This game to me is therapy. You can do/act however you want w/o the consiquinces of real life. So have fun, it's a game. Nothing is lost or harmed except virtual pride.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: toonces3 on October 31, 2007, 10:20:26 PM
You know I gave this alot of thought.

I have alot on my plate in real life.  Unlike Leviathn, or the rest of y'all, this is my first foray into online gaming.  I'm not young (36), but I'm just not the kind of person that's normally into this sort of thing.  You'd think after flight simming for about 20+ years I'd have ventured into online flight sims at some point.

At any rate, not that you would know this, but in my 'real' life I'm a fairly intense, serious person.  I tend to approach most things I do in the same manner I approach life.

Having said all that, in looking at how I've posted, I sound totally ate up.  It's hard, being serious all the time, and then NOT being serious online.  

There have been only a few times that I've found myself getting wound up in this game.  In most cases I've successfully been able to laugh at myself.

I'm going to take this opportunity to do that now.  I'm such a N00b.

If you're quick enough to shoot my chute, good on ya, but I'll bet ya can't do it. I can .ef pretty darn fast.


Toonces
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Widewing on October 31, 2007, 10:58:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't even know who you are.  Why would I be cranky?  LOL

That you take the game too seriously is your problem, not mine.  If my shooting your chute makes you upset, again, that is your problem and not mine.  Don't like it?  Get back in the air, shoot me down, and blast my chute.  Except you won't find me in a chute since I never bail.

-- Todd/Leviathn


LOLOL He won't see your chute, 'cause he will be hanging in his. For a moment or so.....

My regards,

Widewing
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Arlo on October 31, 2007, 11:36:58 PM
Methinks you'll make out just fine. Can't wait to come back so you can shoot me down. :D
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: rod367th on October 31, 2007, 11:45:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life. Maybe on one or two accounts it would be done, but in RL they saw the risks of it. Usually both planes would go down. Usually wasn't such small numbers as we see in AHII so after you shoot down one or two, you can't come over your area vox and say your goin home, you gotta stay and fight till they either head for the hills or are all dead. (Persoanlly I wouldn't care much for fighting a A6m in a p38 [US's main primary fighter] with missing aeilrons, elevators, fuel hits, wing chunks missing etc...) If I were to engage zekes or KI's or something, I'd wanna STAY in my prime, not risk it for an easy kill/death. The HO was usually done widespread (20-50 guys lined up on each side) the few times it was done when it was, all the pilots regarded it as "Playing chicken" or "seeing which one would pull out of it first"
In other words, none wanted to do it. It's cheap, takes minimal skill, and WASN'T done in RL. It was not apart of the AF's for any country (even Germany's and they had ramming 109's, so, in all truth, you can argue that a 109 ramming a bomber is historically accurate)

But try not to confuse a HO for a HM (Hot Merge)
I love when your in a stall fight (usually my corsair) and on the merge, you pull the trigger and you get accused of a HO. HO's aren't in my bag of tricks (unless i'm in the 1c and they initiate it, then I let the 20mm's do the talking :] )
HM's and HO's are two different things with similar outcomes.




Better go tell John glen he didn't fly in real life, also better tell usnavy training manual 1941 edition that telling pilots to ho in rela life wasn't done........... ho was done alot even was british pilot  who made his plane fly like crab so enemy didn't relize he was ho'ing. finish withover 20kills but hey your right ho'ing didn't happen . lol
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Widewing on November 01, 2007, 12:14:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life. Maybe on one or two accounts it would be done, but in RL they saw the risks of it. Usually both planes would go down.


Ah, incorrect. The Head On attack was Bong's favorite method. It was also taught at the 8th Air Force's Clobber College. Pilots were encouraged to attack head-on if that was their only option to get guns on the enemy. It was the fastest way to go from totally defensive to totally offensive.  

Listen, before you spout off nonsense, do a little research. Just research training documents and after action reports from WWII and you'll see that it was a common tactic.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: kamilyun on November 01, 2007, 12:22:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
AH "ethics" threads are always good for a laugh. Right next to "chesspiece traitors" and "HTC is a tyrant" ones. I wish I could give kudos for baiting the masses but, unfortunately, this one comes off a bit too genuine ... and disconnected from what Aces High is - which is a game that doesn't enforce the artificial ethics some of it's players invent or imagine. Anything HTC thinks is wrong is dealt with immediately and harshly. If it doesn't show on their radar then the noise is nothing but sweet music to the ears of the initiated.

Even those who haven't flown a tour in ages, toonce.

:D


But it's an interesting poll none the less.  Gives you a rough indication of what people's personal ethics are.  Nothing will change, and that's fine.  Players will always complain about the same old things, and we dismiss them as whiners.  But after seeing the #'s, I'm surprised some things score so high (er, low?) and others don't.  Interesting info.

Edit:

Like "Fake Check 6's" receive 84% "suck" score.  I think that's the funniest thing you can possibly do to someone! :D

And yet, the "airfield troop drop" is only scraping 50%, which I personally consider lame gaming-the-game type crap.  But whatever, maybe I'll start doing it so I can vulch some more! :t
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: WMLute on November 01, 2007, 12:43:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Ah, incorrect. The Head On attack was Bong's favorite method. It was also taught at the 8th Air Force's Clobber College. Pilots were encouraged to attack head-on if that was their only option to get guns on the enemy. It was the fastest way to go from totally defensive to totally offensive.  

Listen, before you spout off nonsense, do a little research. Just research training documents and after action reports from WWII and you'll see that it was a common tactic.

My regards,

Widewing


Bolded is what most the "they ho'd in real life" crowd are failing to grasp.

Nobody who's looked into the Head On attack will say it wasn't done.

(gonna cap lock this next bit as it's important)

BUT IT WAS GENERALLY DONE AS A LAST DITCH MOVE, OR WHEN THEY HAD A HUGE GUN/ARMOR ADVANTAGE.

No pilot who intended to survive would use a head on attack as their first choice in attack.  What MORON would put themself infront of the nme guns on purpose?  When your LIFE is on the line, why would you even give the bad guys a CHANCE at killing you?  You wouldn't, unless you were desperate, or you had a HUGE advantage in the move.  There is a REASON pilots developed tactis OTHER than the Head On.

It happened.  No argument there.

But it wasn't a first/only option as many use it here in AcesHigh.

Let' say you are a WW2 pilot in a Spit that got jumped by a 109 w/ alt/e.  
You are on the defensive, they are on the attack.  
Let's also say you were in a bad postion and felt it was just a matter of time untill you got shot down.  
I COULD see you lining up a Head On attack to get the 109 out of position and on the instant defensive.  
It would be a move done in desperation, or as a way to get yourself out of a bad situation.

Let's say you are in the Pacific fighting nme that are lightly armored, with weak guns that out turns you.  Your fighter has heavy armor, and lot's of guns, and speed.  I COULD see the advantage of a Frontal Attack there.  I wouldn't do it exclusivly, but I could see where/why it would be done.

But please, let's not kid ourselves with the ole' "they did it in WW2" song and dance.  In desperation, in the RIGHT situation,  a HO is valid.  It has it's place in ACM.

As your ONE AND ONLY MOVE THAT YOU DO OVER AND OVER it's just lame.

Learn to fly.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SEseph on November 01, 2007, 04:15:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
U r clueless.

As for chute shooting, it's hilarious espicially when I know it pisses guys like SEseph off. And as to his soccer analogy, that's a different world. It's what I like to call the real world. But in the world of pixels, it's totally different. You aren't going to get punched in the face in AH unlike in the real world. It doesn't make being a jerk ok, but once again it's just a game. And unless you love your fake AH country like you love your sports team then you should be ok. And if you do... well then it's time to get out into the sun light.


SuperDud, I'm not pissed off my cute being shot.. that's impossible. I said this once before, and you Super, keep proving me right.. you don't pay a lick of attention. I never open my chute. the moment I bail, I'm typing .ef because there is no need to open your chute. You can bail at 100 feet and type .ef and get a successful bail.

What I am irritated over is your feeling of superiority over others because you veiw your way of life as superior. I play these games and enjoy them and want to have something to care about. Why? I can't do much anymore because I gave my back in service to my country so that people like you can spit on me now that I can't do what I use to. I would do it again, because I want you to have the right to tell me how my life is worthless, or anyone else's. I didn't even know you until AH2 and I was willing to give my life for you. I guess this is how the world is: I don't know you, but I judge you based on my veiws, and you're bad, even though you make my way of life possible.

Good going mate. Maybe think next time before you judge a person's way of life.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: carhint on November 01, 2007, 05:32:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SEseph
SuperDud, I'm not pissed off my cute being shot.. that's impossible. I said this once before, and you Super, keep proving me right.. you don't pay a lick of attention. I never open my chute. the moment I bail, I'm typing .ef because there is no need to open your chute. You can bail at 100 feet and type .ef and get a successful bail.

What I am irritated over is your feeling of superiority over others because you veiw your way of life as superior. I play these games and enjoy them and want to have something to care about. Why? I can't do much anymore because I gave my back in service to my country so that people like you can spit on me now that I can't do what I use to. I would do it again, because I want you to have the right to tell me how my life is worthless, or anyone else's. I didn't even know you until AH2 and I was willing to give my life for you. I guess this is how the world is: I don't know you, but I judge you based on my veiws, and you're bad, even though you make my way of life possible.

Good going mate. Maybe think next time before you judge a person's way of life.


Seseph
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SD67 on November 01, 2007, 06:02:08 AM
I'll usually not shoot chutes unless they are a risk, but I'll usually bail and open just because I may just get a hit or 2 with a .45.
I've made quite a few kills with the trusty .45 :lol
If I'm going to take the opportunity to do some ground recon I'll hold off opening until I'm seeing clear trees. that way I'm not hanging around for more than a second.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: VonMessa on November 01, 2007, 10:59:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SD67
Volch
:lol
Been flying with ghi a bit?


In that case, it would be VOOOLCH!:rofl
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: Yknurd on November 01, 2007, 12:14:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by pluck
After blowing up a meat bomb, I take some gratification knowing that without my efforts, AH would not be as intense.


After shooting a chute I do my sexy, nekid dance and touch my self.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: SuperDud on November 01, 2007, 01:18:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SEseph
SuperDud, I'm not pissed off my cute being shot.. that's impossible. I said this once before, and you Super, keep proving me right.. you don't pay a lick of attention. I never open my chute. the moment I bail, I'm typing .ef because there is no need to open your chute. You can bail at 100 feet and type .ef and get a successful bail.

What I am irritated over is your feeling of superiority over others because you veiw your way of life as superior. I play these games and enjoy them and want to have something to care about. Why? I can't do much anymore because I gave my back in service to my country so that people like you can spit on me now that I can't do what I use to. I would do it again, because I want you to have the right to tell me how my life is worthless, or anyone else's. I didn't even know you until AH2 and I was willing to give my life for you. I guess this is how the world is: I don't know you, but I judge you based on my veiws, and you're bad, even though you make my way of life possible.

Good going mate. Maybe think next time before you judge a person's way of life.
WOW, you are reading way to far into this. But thanks for the life lesson. I'll carry it with me always.
Title: On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.
Post by: RATTFINK on November 02, 2007, 07:30:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
After shooting a chute I do my sexy, nekid dance and touch my self.




mmmmbboooooaaaaahhhhhahahahah ahaha :rofl :aok