Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: killjoy1 on October 28, 2007, 07:44:14 AM
-
Actually Der Grosse Schlag just made playing in the MA boring. The MA has simply gone over to arcade play especially with these same ol' maps.
In Der Grosse Schlag there were many levels of success and failure.
1) Get back alive.
2) Get your wingy back alive.
3) Get your flight leader back alive.
4) Get the bomber group you're escorting back alive.
5) Finding the huns.
6) Killing the huns.
7) Not killing the good guys!
8) Fuel conservation.
9) Fighting between 30k and 20k is a whole new world.
Each frame tactics and strategy improved with ever more desperate fights. The final frame the Luftwaffe put it all together and delivered the "Hammer Blow" to the 1st BG and wiped them out.
"You could have watched our bomber flight get ripped to pieces. Man that was ugly. I heard the call of cons 12 o'clock high, took one look and knew we were screwed. Nothing but black dots all over the place that soon became red icons everywhere I looked. The ONLY way we might have survived was if we had EVERY position in the planes actually manned. We just couldn't switch gun positions fast enough to keep up with everything and still stay in formation."
Hornet33
The Bomber Groups started the first frames like we were in the main. But they learned to group tighter each frame. The 4th FG were escorting the 2nd BG in the 4th frame and they were grouped so tight you could hardly fit a playing card between them.
Then there was the furball on the deck at A5. It was one thing to get a few kills but it's another whole game to get home alive afterwards. We're trying to fight a running battle and conserve fuel 3 sectors from home.
I've been playing WB and AH for a long time. Der Grosse Schlag has been the most fun in years. I just wish we could take a little bit of it into the MA.
Big to the CO's!
-
Well said!
-
Originally posted by killjoy1
I've been playing WB and AH for a long time. Der Grosse Schlag has been the most fun in years. I just wish we could take a little bit of it into the MA.
Big to the CO's!
Not to take anything away from scenarios but.
I don't understand, if you fly it they will come. Post a mission to fly deep into enemy territory. None of this under dar bs. You get a large enough bar slowly moving through enemy territory you will get the welcome wagon.
IIRC a few weeks ago there was a large rook raid on nit HQ. There was everything up there chasing them. Not to mention country channel lit up with positions updates and requests. IMHO That was as much fun as any FSO I've flown.
-
Originally posted by Bronk
Not to take anything away from scenarios but.
I don't understand, if you fly it they will come. Post a mission to fly deep into enemy territory. None of this under dar bs. You get a large enough bar slowly moving through enemy territory you will get the welcome wagon.
IIRC a few weeks ago there was a large rook raid on nit HQ. There was everything up there chasing them. Not to mention country channel lit up with positions updates and requests. IMHO That was as much fun as any FSO I've flown.
yes or cobble together a mission to get back your carrier fleet which the idiot bish have "hidden" near their HQ. to me FSO and scenarios are like watching paint dry. the fact that you HAVE to rtb makes it bring out the worst in MA dweebry. but I guess that's what makes a horse race.
-
Originally posted by killjoy1
Actually Der Grosse Schlag just made playing in the MA boring. The MA has simply gone over to arcade play especially with these same ol' maps.
In Der Grosse Schlag there were many levels of success and failure.
1) Get back alive.
2) Get your wingy back alive.
3) Get your flight leader back alive.
4) Get the bomber group you're escorting back alive.
5) Finding the huns.
6) Killing the huns.
7) Not killing the good guys!
8) Fuel conservation.
9) Fighting between 30k and 20k is a whole new world.
Each frame tactics and strategy improved with ever more desperate fights. The final frame the Luftwaffe put it all together and delivered the "Hammer Blow" to the 1st BG and wiped them out.
"You could have watched our bomber flight get ripped to pieces. Man that was ugly. I heard the call of cons 12 o'clock high, took one look and knew we were screwed. Nothing but black dots all over the place that soon became red icons everywhere I looked. The ONLY way we might have survived was if we had EVERY position in the planes actually manned. We just couldn't switch gun positions fast enough to keep up with everything and still stay in formation."
Hornet33
The Bomber Groups started the first frames like we were in the main. But they learned to group tighter each frame. The 4th FG were escorting the 2nd BG in the 4th frame and they were grouped so tight you could hardly fit a playing card between them.
Then there was the furball on the deck at A5. It was one thing to get a few kills but it's another whole game to get home alive afterwards. We're trying to fight a running battle and conserve fuel 3 sectors from home.
I've been playing WB and AH for a long time. Der Grosse Schlag has been the most fun in years. I just wish we could take a little bit of it into the MA.
Big to the CO's!
Great time and the MA is just the same old stuff we have had for years. Just shows what CT can be. If we all live long enough to see it!:t
Frodo
-
I do all but number 9 in MA. hmm I dont do 4 much either...but have on occasion.
-
Originally posted by storch
yes or cobble together a mission to get back your carrier fleet which the idiot bish have "hidden" near their HQ. to me FSO and scenarios are like watching paint dry. the fact that you HAVE to rtb makes it bring out the worst in MA dweebry. but I guess that's what makes a horse race.
I guessing you're just not suited to enjoy the 'near' historical realism the scenarios provide over the MA, which is their primary purpose. And that's OK. I'm not into this whole game world just for the personal skill/combat stuff, though that's a great part of it. Nor, just to be flying a reasonably modelled, simulated aircraft. For me, much of the enjoyment of AH has come from the associated learning, discussing and experiencing of the historical events of WWII.
I think most pilots in the MA (including myself, when I'm there) are something like kids in a candy shop, running around from counter to jar, stuffing themselves with everything as fast as they can, never getting to really taste or savor what their eating. After awhile, it's all one big frantic blob, with an exceptionally sweet or sour taste occasionally rising to notice.
Scenarios, on the other hand, provide the needed contrast (and very real experience) of the boring, but necessary formation flying, scouting for bandits, climbing to altitude, waiting for contact, etc, that makes that moment when your staffel of Focke-Wulf A-8's, along with a staffel or two of 109K-4's, follow vector orders successfully and join an even larger mass of countrymen as they swarm upon dozens of Allied bombers, dodging fistfuls of furious escort fighters. Though often of short duration, the intensity and shear pucker factor of the fight, in contrast with the previous boredom, makes for a good, knucklewhitening time for all.
It's not the MA, and I don't know if I would want all the prep, or could stand all the mundane flight time, too often, but I sure wouldn't mind it a little more often if it's this good either.
-
man, I just can't see blowing half of a saturday doing a scenario. we did the FSO thing a few years ago and it was boring boring boring. I don't have the need to role play real war I guess. I like blowing people up in cartoonland though.
-
Originally posted by storch
man, I just can't see blowing half of a saturday doing a scenario. we did the FSO thing a few years ago and it was boring boring boring. I don't have the need to role play real war I guess. I like blowing people up in cartoonland though.
It's a totally different world in a scenario Storch. To each his own, but it definately wasn't a blown Saturday for me :)
-
Originally posted by killjoy1
Actually Der Grosse Schlag just made playing in the MA boring. The MA has simply gone over to arcade play especially with these same ol' maps.
!
i would better watch "Everybody loves Raymond', than flying boring scenarios, I prefer vulching, hoing,raming, dieing in the MA's insurgency war style;more action,more fun
-
Originally posted by ghi
i would better watch "Everybody loves Raymond', than flying boring scenarios, I prefer vulching, hoing,raming, dieing in the MA's insurgency war style;more action,more fun
Well we wouldn't expect anything diffrent from the typical LA7 pilot. :rofl
-
Aces High offers many ways that an individual enjoys the game.
Quick fights, stall fights BnZ etc.
Many of us also are in it for the immersion. Scenarios put you closer to what air combat was like during WWII. We flew long distances to make Rendezvous points. We had to manage our fuel. The Jugs in Der Grosse Schlag also changed MP and RPMs to give ourselves more air time.
Making a rendezvous point with three other Fgs coming at nearly the same time with the Big Friends flying in tight formation below. Over the Radio hearing "Welcome Little Friends" The chatter between arriving FGs postioning themselves near the Bomber Stream.
Escorting for another 45 minutes until "Here comes the Luftwaffe!" 2 O'clock high no ID on aircraft yet! Then the swirling fights at 32K to various altitudes, listening for 6 calls and watching your wingman. Watching bombers get hit and you diving after an enemy 190. Then realizing you've been thinned out, lost some fighters and Bombers and you still have another target to hit. The LW re ups in fresh planes beneath you. You or your squadmates might have some damage......your fuel is running low and you know the Luftwaffe is coming back with numbers probably two to three to one against you, and you're hurting.
That's what some of us like. I'll never criticize anyone for their style of gameplay. It's their 15 dollars and all can play as they wish.
-
Flew all 5 frames!
Did well in some and not so good in others. (dang Lazer ya CHEATER, MEANY, BULLY )
Had what I must say is probably the best time in AH or WB (flew mainly the s3's) EVER!
to all involved with creating it and running it!
Oh and a BIG THANK YOU!
IF CT is going to be like this I'm sold!
BTW I still enjoy the MA but NOT as much! Probably because the MA dweebery just WASN'T there.
-
Flew the 4 frames. Nice for a change of pace, but for me, too much like work.
-
Originally posted by killjoy1
Actually Der Grosse Schlag just made playing in the MA boring. The MA has simply gone over to arcade play especially with these same ol' maps.
The MA died a horrible death a long time ago - please do not give DGS the proxy kill :cry
shamroc
-
I loved flying in DGS. I flew in some practice sessions, the beta, and all four frames, and I always looked forward to it. Like others have said, some might not really like the immersion and the work it takes to get formed up, rendezvous with other groups, waiting for orders from people who find out what's going on, and then the really fast action, it was really cool.
It was simply awesome looking around me and seeing 30+ friendly fighters in several groups within visual range of each other, and then seeing a gigantic mass of enemy bombers show up, and look around and see Ponies and P-38s everywhere. It was crazy, crazy stuff. The bomber group I helped attack in frame 4 was so tight, as some have said, you could hardly imagine fitting a playing card between them.
The only thing that saved my bacon this last frame when I attacked the bombers was that there were enough other Luftwaffe planes nearby that I wasn't always the guy a particular gunner was aiming at. Oh, and I'm glad to read that quote from Hornet and know I contributed to his "immersive" experience by taking out one of his B-17s. :-)
Personally, I can't wait for the next big scenario. I really look forward to it, and I'm sad that DGS is over with.
Thanks to all those who helped put it together, and thanks for the 300 or so pilots who showed up each Saturday and made it cool.
-
DGS was GREAT :aok
Could only make 2 of the frames and thats a bummer cause i had been looking forward to this for months.
-
Originally posted by Frodo
Great time and the MA is just the same old stuff we have had for years. Just shows what CT can be. If we all live long enough to see it!:t
Frodo
We
Sunday the bishops and rooks were in an epic battle for A44 on the same Uterus map we have had in MA orange for the last 10 days. Our squad decided to up B-17s and ponys from 51 climb to 20K for our bomb run. We were in a tight formation until line up and the rook welcoming comiteee stayed away until our buffs were separated on their bomb run. As our fighters were picked off I was forced to abandon my bomb run and get on the guns (one 190 dn). Flew past the target, did a 180 and re calibrated for a second bomb run. [BDA for our "group": 3 FH, VH, 2 BH destroyed] after pickling our eggs we re formed loosly, still fighting off fighters and decended at high speed toward 45, 110s, an LA and a pony in tow. those of us shot down re-joind as gunners. Finally landed at 45, two drones down with 3 kills and targets destroyed. Best MA action I ever had. Reminded me of DGS, but with Kill shooter on.
-
thread topic name ftw! i was expecting something entirely different. nice not to see a whine about the scenario. made for some great fun. 190s slamming into the buff formation with the radio chatter and escorts trying to cover was intense. blowing wings off 109s and 190s coming too close to our tight formation right before bombs away was awesome.
-
DGS was the BEST time i ever had in AH... even if i was only able to make Frame 3, it comes to show you that scenario playing, organization, planning, and good ol teamwork provides a wonderful experience in just about any game. Loved DGS, would do it again anytime, and as for MA style of play, i run missions frequently since i'm a rook and as many missions as i have run in past time, nothing compaired to the one frame i experienced in DGS.... EVER. :aok
GJ everyone involved in the DGS project, HT. If CT will be similar to DGS i'm already sold for year's myelf :aok .
-
"Killjoy is the most feared pilot in the 4th Fighter Group." - PH after Der Grosse Schlag
You just posted something so everybody would see your new sig line, didn't ya?!?! :rofl
-
I do feel DGS is an awakening for me, my inflight name is oADONAIo and been flying main arena for over a year now, recently jumped in on a DGS as walkon, and was blown away, I use to do some FSO's early in days, but it was rather bad then, not many showed up, poor planning, but this DGS just blew me away. Sadly was part of the FW190a8's that said HELLO KITTY! to the buffs that were unescorted. Even more fun was wasting an hour trying to chase the buffs down after I got tangled by 2 P47s at 25k! in the end, it was a healthy experience to the hording, ho ramming, La7's chasing me down in main arena.
I guess you can say DGS woke me up!
-
combat tour when it arrives should give you the same experience but in a shorter time.
CT is going to have jump points to get you to the action quicker.
-
To each his own...... Scenario was definitely not boring to me. However if your the type that likes to put a quarter in and play instantly then the MA is for you since H2H has gone down the tubes.
For those who like to learn the more historical side of their aircraft and the war.... Scenarios are it.
-
Originally posted by Shuffler
To each his own...... Scenario was definitely not boring to me. However if your the type that likes to put a quarter in and play instantly then the MA is for you since H2H has gone down the tubes.
For those who like to learn the more historical side of their aircraft and the war.... Scenarios are it.
IMHO Scenarios are what a WWII Flight Sim is really all about!
Much of the MA tactics simply do NOT work in a Scenario.
People HAD to fly much more like the pilots did during WWII.
OTD fights were fairly RARE compared to the MA. Much of the fighting took place at 30 to 20K. Unless the allied fighters got taken to the deck.
The reupping soon as you were shot down right from the base you were shot down near was NOT an option UNLESS you were shot down over your home base.
So many things that make the MA the MA just wasn't there.
And Returning to Base had real VALUE, so fighting until you died, or staying on someones 6 till you shot them down with NO regard for tracers flying around your cockpit or bullets hitting your plane was a real NO NO!
I've often wondered if giving someone double or triple the perks points for an RTB wouldn't increase the realism and immersion for all but.............. who can say.
-
wrag:I've often wondered if giving someone double or triple the perks points for an RTB wouldn't increase the realism and immersion for all but.............. who can say.
This thought can destroy arena play. The difference is , in the Scenario you have a mission, just as in real life. It is that mission that drives the wanting to live. But the mission also drives the need to engage.
In arena play where you are mostly flying for yourself, putting to much emphasis on living deteriorates game play.
-
Originally posted by hitech
In arena play where you are mostly flying for yourself, putting to much emphasis on living deteriorates game play.
So could some element driving the need to engage at MA:s be enhanced in order to also allow more emphasis on living and RTB?
Tough question I bet.. maybe the answer is a simple No?
-
Originally posted by wrag
IMHO Scenarios are what a WWII Flight Sim is really all about!
Much of the MA tactics simply do NOT work in a Scenario.
People HAD to fly much more like the pilots did during WWII.
OTD fights were fairly RARE compared to the MA. Much of the fighting took place at 30 to 20K. Unless the allied fighters got taken to the deck.
The reupping soon as you were shot down right from the base you were shot down near was NOT an option UNLESS you were shot down over your home base.
So many things that make the MA the MA just wasn't there.
And Returning to Base had real VALUE, so fighting until you died, or staying on someones 6 till you shot them down with NO regard for tracers flying around your cockpit or bullets hitting your plane was a real NO NO!
I've often wondered if giving someone double or triple the perks points for an RTB wouldn't increase the realism and immersion for all but.............. who can say.
Just the idea of points for something like that kills the immersion/realism. They didn't do it for points, they did it because that was the mission. Because for so many the emphaisis in the MA is on points, the realsim/immersion just won't happen.
-
Just to elaborate on Wrag's thought, one would have to engage in the first place to get some kills for those perks. So bringing them home would not count against initial fights. Maybe the possible higher perks for landed kills would kick in one's behavior after a few kills... or maybe someone would run home immediately after one kill.. who knows :)
Then again, some do not care about the perks in any case. They have lots of unperked planes to fly. And those who fly the perk planes, value them and try to rtb. So higher perks would not affect them either. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by hitech
This thought can destroy arena play. The difference is , in the Scenario you have a mission, just as in real life. It is that mission that drives the wanting to live. But the mission also drives the need to engage.
In arena play where you are mostly flying for yourself, putting to much emphasis on living deteriorates game play.
OK, was just wonderin.
BTW :rofl I got over 28,000 perk points in fighters. These have been accumulated over all the time I've flown which started in AHI.
And I very rarely fly perk planes.
I find the immersion increases for me if I engage, survive, and RTB.
So thats how I prefer to fly.
AND that is probably why I enjoyed the Scenario so MUCH .
-
Originally posted by wrag
Much of the MA tactics simply do NOT work in a Scenario.
People HAD to fly much more like the pilots did during WWII.
This is the aspect that I like. The circumstances surrounding engagements in scenarios end up with players flying as their historical counterparts would - although its not forced - its just happens.
At 30K, tasked with escorting buffs or killing them, the aircraft youre used to flying in the MA is a totally different animal. Suddenly it takes a degree of nerve to attack a box of buffs, the Jug is a very potent weapon and the 190 really does have the 'oh ****' factor when it arrives.
For those of us just as much - if not more interested - in the historical aspect of the game, its great fun. Instead of frustration bred from chasing an LA7 for six sectors, you get a great sense of 'size' when a full Gruppe of 109's come tearing down from the clouds with every intention of reducing your virtual life span.
Its just good fun.
-
Its all in how you fly the main (http://www.simpilots.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=96)
Simpilots.org (http://www.simpilots.org/)
Twice a week ,every week..multiple squads. Register your squad.
-
Keep in mind that in real life, pilots wanted to live. Sure, they had orders, and a mission to perform, but they also wanted to keep on living, and unlike in a game, they only had one life, and that's it.
When your actual, real, one life depends on how you fly your plane in combat, I bet you dollars to donuts you will fly differently than you do in the game, in a scenario or in the MA, either one.
The closest we get to that is the desire to keep playing in a scenario, so if you only get one life, if you want to keep playing, you'll be forced to be more conservative in your approach. If you don't care whether you play two minutes past the initial engagement, however, I guess you can fly as recklessly as you want.
ps: this is what killed me too easily in the first two or three frames of DGS. I didn't value my virtual life as much as I ought to have, and so I flew attack approaches on bombers that were riskier, and I paid the price for the folly.
-
Originally posted by BlauK
Maybe the possible higher perks for landed kills would kick in one's behavior after a few kills... or maybe someone would run home immediately after one kill.. who knows :)
How about a perk multiplier that increases as the streak increases?
Lets say you get 1 perk for your first kill and then one more perk for each successive kill: You land 1 kill, thats 1 perk earned. Land two kills, thats 1+2=3 perks earned. Land 3 kills, thats 1+2+3=6 perks... Or maybe an exponential growth: 2 kills: 2x2=4 perks, 3 kills: 3x3=9 perks.
The trick to persuade people to land their kills, is that this multiplier would only work if you land the kills. If you dont land them, you wouldn't get the multiplier either: each kill would be worth a standard amount.
Would this work?
Camo
-
Posted by original thread starter:
"9) Fighting between 30k and 20k is a whole new world."
My guess is your not a Rook.
68ROX
-
Killjoy, I was at A5 giving you hell, :D
-
Yes you were. I got both of my kills at A5 and 50% of them were not in my own squad.
Have you noticed how all those cartoon planes look the same in a furball?