Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: raider73 on October 28, 2007, 03:54:33 PM
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Personally i think N1K will win because i usually do what do you guys think??? :D
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Originally posted by raider73
Personally i think N1K will win because i usually do what do you guys think??? :D
Bring it to 28k and see what happens.
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Originally posted by raider73
Personally i think N1K will win because i usually do what do you guys think??? :D
I'm feeling like a slice of humble pie.
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lol i stay at max 10k with my N1k
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In what kind of fight? The one where the N1K has to play by the 47's rules or the one where the 47 has to play by the N1k's rules?
UNI.
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well in my fights they play by my rules =] there are none im not talkin bout Duel and the P47 would most likly stall quicker then N1K
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why this pairing?
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47- cause I'll pick you while your in your 1vs1 :)
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you nits and Bish dnt let us rooks has 1 v 1 so im always 4 v 1 and WIN!!!!
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Look up Hajo. after he slaps you around a few times you won't ask silly question any more :D
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Depends on the pilot.
Was a post earlier this week about me in a p47 otd vs. a niki w/ alt/e.
In THAT fight, the jug won.
In most fights, it's not the plane it's the pilot.
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If a nikki beats a jug from an even start then the jug driver messed up. that doesnt mean the jug will always win...but he will control the fight. Once the fight is above 12k or so it favors the jug even more...
Normally when I hear this "I always win" we're dealing more with picking vs actual ACM. Run into bluekitty, Greebo, Wadke, Fx1 or a host of others and I dont care what your in (or for that matter what i'm in) and you will have your hands full. Personally I find thre nikki to be a marginal threat in anything but the best hands. Ki-84 and even the ki-61 are much more dangerous rides....
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Originally posted by humble
If a nikki beats a jug from an even start then the jug driver messed up. that doesnt mean the jug will always win...but he will control the fight. Once the fight is above 12k or so it favors the jug even more...
Normally when I hear this "I always win" we're dealing more with picking vs actual ACM. Run into bluekitty, Greebo, Wadke, Fx1 or a host of others and I dont care what your in (or for that matter what i'm in) and you will have your hands full. Personally I find thre nikki to be a marginal threat in anything but the best hands. Ki-84 and even the ki-61 are much more dangerous rides....
I find it increasingly easy to prey on N1Ks. They never seem to put up much of a fight, and they're quite slow. The only danger is their cannons, but even then they're not that difficult to avoid with competent tactics.
Ki-61s and Ki-84s put up a much better fight, just like you said. They float like you wouldn't believe, and that's why you really have to be careful.
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if im the one in the N1K have fun preyin on me
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If I am the jug pilot your dead within 5 turns.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Bring it to 28k and see what happens.
he would fly around alone till he ran out of gas?:p
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As was said earlier, the if the N pilot dies he messed up (lol or was picked by another niki;) N is tons faster than Niki, dives faster, can stay/roll with it in turn for enough to get a shot or egress
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5 turns LMAO no i'll out turn u =]
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Jug can stay 1/2 to 3/4 a turn, if he stays longer, he BETTER get the kill;
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Silly question. If either plays the other's game, the other wins. The P-47's game allows it to dictate the fight, so if the P-47 driver doesn't play the N1K's game, he will almost certainly win.
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Originally posted by raider73
if im the one in the N1K have fun preyin on me
I did one night and I left you crying in your tower. Trust me, you in a N1K2 against a P-47N, I'll place my money on the Jug driver every time.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Karnak
Silly question. If either plays the other's game, the other wins. The P-47's game allows it to dictate the fight, so if the P-47 driver doesn't play the N1K's game, he will almost certainly win.
Yup, pretty much. That comprises 99% of the pi$$ing matches ya ever hear on 200;)
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Originally posted by raider73
if im the one in the N1K have fun preyin on me
I almost feel like switching from Rookland and bringing a Ki61.
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Originally posted by Husky01
If I am the jug pilot your dead within 5 turns.
Not if I already kill you in 1.
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Who is raider73? Squeak?
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I've furballed n1k's quite a few times in my Ki-61 and came out top 4 of 5 times today alone by named players, don't really think a n1k is a threat till you screw up ACM wise.
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N1K2-Js had automatic flaps in real life. I don't have time to search in forums but there's a thread that cites it./
N1K2-J should have auto-flaps when HTC remodels this plane to AH2 standards.
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Originally posted by 1K3
N1K2-Js had automatic flaps in real life. I don't have time to search in forums but there's a thread that cites it./
N1K2-J should have auto-flaps when HTC remodels this plane to AH2 standards.
And all planes that didn't have auto-retracting flaps should have those removed as well.
ack-ack
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In my opinion, the Nik should pwn the P-47.
While my fight with Lute shows that pilot skill is more important than the plane, had Lute been fighting himself in the Nik, he would have been dead dead dead.
I should have won that engagement a few times, but just wasn't skilled enough.
My two cents.
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Originally posted by toonces3
In my opinion, the Nik should pwn the P-47.
If the P-47 is dumb enough to fight the N1K2's fight, i.e. turn fight, then yes. The N1K2 would win the fight but if the P-47 driver fights his fight, then the N1K2 wouldn't have a chance as the P-47 driver can engage and disengage at will.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by toonces3
In my opinion, the Nik should pwn the P-47.
While my fight with Lute shows that pilot skill is more important than the plane, had Lute been fighting himself in the Nik, he would have been dead dead dead.
I should have won that engagement a few times, but just wasn't skilled enough.
My two cents.
Actually its the opposite...
The Jug owns the nikki...
The only thing the nikki driver can do is pwn the other pilot. now if the nikki has E then it has a window in which to get the jug turning ...once E state is even then the jug controls the fight.
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I landed 32 kills once...........
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Originally posted by Stang
Who is raider73? Squeak?
Skyrocks protege?
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no stang i have deeper voices then some of the Men im 14 a Football jock that plays on weekend that happens to love WW2 History:aok
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Originally posted by Stang
Who is raider73? Squeak?
squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Originally posted by raider73
no stang i have deeper voices then some of the Men im 14 a Football jock that plays on weekend that happens to love WW2 History:aok
rotflmfao
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Come on guys hes been flying for a whole 9 tours he must be a niki vet! Quah!
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Originally posted by raider73
SQUEAK!
Crap, I think my ears are bleeding.
ack-ack
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Look me up in the MA raider.
We'll go to the DA and see if you can fly a niki or not.
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Originally posted by WMLute
Look me up in the MA raider.
We'll go to the DA and see if you can fly a niki or not.
5er on lute:D
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Originally posted by raider73
no stang i have deeper voices then some of the Men im 14 a Football jock that plays on weekend that happens to love WW2 History:aok
You have voices ? Now do you also hear them?
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Am I the only one who would rather be in a Niki in that situation?
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Probably.
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I sort of look at it like its either going to be a draw, or someones going to make a mistake and die. I figure the P47s more likely to make a mistake, personally. Its easy to dodge BnZ passes.
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I find the folks with the HO wagon's make the mistakes after the first pass and get cocky. Then again, they do it all of the time against a Ki 61.
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The Niki has its advantages but, the jug is the best between the 2 imo. Pilot skill is always a factor and smart flyboy will use his aircraft to exploit the weakness' of his adversary. I like to hit and extend with a P47, and dive and turn with a niki. The jug is way faster so it decides when the fight is over.
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Wnlute will do sir im on mostly on weekends and No im not a squeeker Av8torJr and ZooZoo and Snowey are im on vox 149 Rooks if u wondering:aok :rofl
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I seriously need to get in the TA then.
The jug, to me, seems like a beast to fly and this whole 'keep your energy' thing is alot harder than it sounds.
And Lute did turn with a Nik, and did win, and I'm still not sure exactly how.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Bring it to 28k and see what happens.
Yes...because that is where you will find the LOWEST flying rooks.
68ROX
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Originally posted by 68ROX
Yes...because that is where you will find the LOWEST flying rooks.
68ROX
NA UH! I fly at 30k and i'm a rook :eek:
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it all comes down to the pilots, the n1k needs to make the 47 kill his e, the 47 needs to do his own thing and conserve e. personally i would rather be in the n1k.
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Originally posted by 68ROX
Yes...because that is where you will find the LOWEST flying rooks.
68ROX
Wrong, the Jug is damn good at that alt.
I'm also a Rook and am 90% of the time at 7-8k in a Tony.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Wrong, the Jug is damn good at that alt.
I'm also a Rook and am 90% of the time at 7-8k in a Tony.
I'm a Rook, and I fly anywhere from 2,500 to 25,500 (usually 7,500 to 12,500). Basically, I'll choose whatever altitude is optimal for the attack plan.
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Originally posted by Fruda
I'm a Rook, and I fly anywhere from 2,500 to 25,500 (usually 7,500 to 12,500). Basically, I'll choose whatever altitude is optimal for the attack plan.
You're a dweeb though. :D
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I'll fly the Jug. Its a challenge to kill anything in it. Most N1K's...are ho merchants and thats about it. Not ALL but most.
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Originally posted by raider73
lol i stay at max 10k with my N1k
judging by your #, you dont stay aloft long enough to reach 10k:D
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I've been seriously considering taking a tour with the jug as my focus ride. I may just do that.
It'd be easier if one of the skinners here would make a 348th Fighter Group skin :)
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Originally posted by toonces3
I've been seriously considering taking a tour with the jug as my focus ride. I may just do that.
It'd be easier if one of the skinners here would make a 348th Fighter Group skin :)
I think you guys fly 51D's in high packs....N would be easy transition once ya get used to the gawdawful slow climb (wep makes it climb much faster, but the plane is useless low without it later on)
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Originally posted by toonces3
I seriously need to get in the TA then.
The jug, to me, seems like a beast to fly and this whole 'keep your energy' thing is alot harder than it sounds.
And Lute did turn with a Nik, and did win, and I'm still not sure exactly how.
Find LEDPIG. Ask him to describe what a well flown P-47 can do. He knows, believe me, he knows.
My regards,
Widewing
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Well look at the attributes a N1k has compared to a Jug:
N1k- Better climb Rate
N1k - Better gun package and ammo with it
Split even: Turn fighting ability: under 10k would award n1k, over 10k a jug.
Jug: Flat Speed, Dive Speed
Range: Jug
Durability: Jug times 3
My best opinion is this: a pilot can master any plane and make any fight his fight.
Ive been in turnfights at 15k in n1k's and won against Jugs, I also lost against Jug's at 15k in a spit14 so goes to show quality of the pilot knowing his aircrafts limits is what wins.
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anytime above 20k, i will fly P-47, in my view, P-47 is best in game
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Originally posted by Adonai
Well look at the attributes a N1k has compared to a Jug:
N1k- Better climb Rate
N1k - Better gun package and ammo with it
Split even: Turn fighting ability: under 10k would award n1k, over 10k a jug.
Jug: Flat Speed, Dive Speed
Range: Jug
Durability: Jug times 3
Even at 10k, the N1k2 has the advantage in maneuverability. The P-47 really doesn't come into its own until it's above 20,000ft and gets better the higher it goes.
My best opinion is this: a pilot can master any plane and make any fight his fight.
Ive been in turnfights at 15k in n1k's and won against Jugs, I also lost against Jug's at 15k in a spit14 so goes to show quality of the pilot knowing his aircrafts limits is what wins.
No offense, but in those victories you're bragging about, I am willing to bet that you had the advantage in both altitude and speed and those pilots were below average.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Adonai
Well look at the attributes a N1k has compared to a Jug:
N1k- Better climb Rate
N1k - Better gun package and ammo with it
Split even: Turn fighting ability: under 10k would award n1k, over 10k a jug.
Jug: Flat Speed, Dive Speed
Range: Jug
Durability: Jug times 3
My best opinion is this: a pilot can master any plane and make any fight his fight.
Ive been in turnfights at 15k in n1k's and won against Jugs, I also lost against Jug's at 15k in a spit14 so goes to show quality of the pilot knowing his aircrafts limits is what wins.
idk wat u talkin bout gun package wise, id rather have 8 50 cals and over 3,000 rounds then like 300 20mms
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most MA fights seem to end up on the deck, where the Nik should PWN. In my fight with Lute, I did win the fight, but couldn't close the deal because his D-40 always had enough E to open up where my Japanese cannons couldn't hit him. He was able to at least match turns with me, which I can't explain because I assume the Nik can out-turn a jug...period, flaps or whatever.
Certainly pilot skill is the difference. But, given even pilots, I can't see how the P-47 should be the prefered ride in the MA. Now, if we were going to keep the fight high, 15k and up, perhaps the jug would see the advantage. But on the deck, the jug is simply out of its element. The jug wasn't built as a low-alt fighter.
I love to try and fly the jug, but for MA engagements, it's just not the best ride in the lineup and given a choice between the jug and Nik in the MA, I can't see the jug being the better choice. However, I am living proof that given a better pilot, any plane can beat the other.
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Originally posted by toonces3
I love to try and fly the jug, but for MA engagements, it's just not the best ride in the lineup and given a choice between the jug and Nik in the MA, I can't see the jug being the better choice.
Well, if you are looking the the best MA ride I wouldn't pick any of the two. N1k and P47 are not a choice one over the other, same as you don't pick a panzer over a FW190. The planes are so different in design purpose and use that the question is irrelevant.
For me the P47 is the best choice for the MA. It fills best the combination of properties that I want from my ride: Historical value, pretty skins, challenge, and the elusive coolness factor. Another Jug bonus is that it attracts the opposition so you don't have to chase them, they will come to (for) you. The N1k miss out on all these, except for maybe some nice skins.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Am I the only one who would rather be in a Niki in that situation?
nope Urchin........
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Originally posted by toonces3
most MA fights seem to end up on the deck, where the Nik should PWN. In my fight with Lute, I did win the fight, but couldn't close the deal because his D-40 always had enough E to open up where my Japanese cannons couldn't hit him. He was able to at least match turns with me, which I can't explain because I assume the Nik can out-turn a jug...period, flaps or whatever.
Certainly pilot skill is the difference. But, given even pilots, I can't see how the P-47 should be the prefered ride in the MA. Now, if we were going to keep the fight high, 15k and up, perhaps the jug would see the advantage. But on the deck, the jug is simply out of its element. The jug wasn't built as a low-alt fighter.
I love to try and fly the jug, but for MA engagements, it's just not the best ride in the lineup and given a choice between the jug and Nik in the MA, I can't see the jug being the better choice. However, I am living proof that given a better pilot, any plane can beat the other.
If everyone flew the best low altitude fighters, you'd see only four or five types. Fortunately, this is not the case.
I for one, rarely fly the so-called uber fighters. I'd rather fly an F6F, P-47, P-38, or 190A-5. Sure, I can get a ton of kills flying the La-7, Tempest, Spit16 or Niki, but there's no challenge in that. I have no qualms about taking a TBM into a fight, because I know exactly what the Avenger can do, and most of the opposition has no clue that the TBM can match turns with a Hurricane IIC. A good pilot can maintain a 3/1 or better kill to loss ratio in the lumbering TBM. So, why would a good pilot not feel comfortable flying a P-47 at less than its ideal combat altitude?
P-47s are reasonably fast, even on the deck. Both the P-47D-25 and -40 can attain 344 mph on the deck. That's as fast as the Spit16 and Ki-84. The P-47D-11 is a bit faster at 346 mph, with the P-47N able to sprint to 366 mph. At 10,000 feet, the P-47N is faster than the Tempest or La-7. Add to that outstanding dive acceleration and tremendous zoom climb (more important than steady-state climb in a fight) and the Jugs are quite capable of inflicting a beating on anything they encounter. Really good ailerons and high-speed flaps add to the arsenal of tools available to the P-47 pilot. Granted, the P-47s generally require a greater level of Situational Awareness than some other fighters. They generally lack the low level acceleration to run away from a deteriorating tactical situation. Thus, you keep the Jugs reasonably fast and fly aggressively within their envelop. Skilled P-47 pilots recognize the fighter's envelop and exploit it to the maximum.
Jugs require good E management. That means not G loading the airframe more than required. It means smooth control input, never jerk the stick around. Slow is smooth and smooth helps keep you fast. Don't overdo flap usage.
You mentioned that Lute was able to match your turns, which leaves you somewhat perplexed. At corner speed, the Niki can't out-turn the P-47 because turn rate is g limited. Even down to 200 mph, the Jug's excellent flaps will allow it to stick to the Niki like glue. Only when the speed of the engagement deteriorates to less than 200 mph does the Niki gain the upper hand. If the P-47 driver refuses to get into that trap, the Niki pilot must rely on being the better pilot. If the P-47 pilot can get the Niki turning while maintaining an E advantage, he can convert his E to altitude and push the Niki much harder than ever expected. My mantra is "pin them, bleed them and then kill them". This translates into keeping the enemy confined, keep them turning so they cannot build speed and eventually breaking down their speed so slow that their relative aspect changes little, making the kill easy. Your better P-47 pilots know how to accomplish this and can give the angles fighter serious grief. By managing your E effectively, the Jugs can dictate a fight well enough to be a genuine threat to anything they encounter.
This past Thursday evening, we held one of our Engaging Multiple Enemies clinics in the TA. About 12 MA regulars showed up and we divided into two groups. Optiker, took one group of 4 or 5 and I took the balance. Initially, my group flew 5 on 2 fights. I took a P-47D-25 as one of the smaller group of two. The larger group were in Spitfires, 109s, a Yak-9U and F4Us. Later, we flew group against group, involving 10 to 12 fighters. I stayed in P-47s through most of the engagements and never felt that I was in an inferior fighter, because I wasn't.
Likewise, in the MA, I don't feel at a disadvantage if I fly a P-47 or a P-38, or an F6F. Each one of these has different strengths, and each one can be extremely effective if its pilot fights to those strengths. Ultimately, knowing the enemy's fighter better than he does, combined with the ability to fly your fighter to its absolute limits is key.
Aircraft knowledge, aggression, SA, ACM skills and E-management are the primary elements to being successful in any fight. You should aspire to be good at all of the above, because the pilot who has high levels of all these attributes would be deadly flying a washing machine.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by toonces3
most MA fights seem to end up on the deck, where the Nik should PWN. In my fight with Lute, I did win the fight, but couldn't close the deal because his D-40 always had enough E to open up where my Japanese cannons couldn't hit him. He was able to at least match turns with me, which I can't explain because I assume the Nik can out-turn a jug...period, flaps or whatever.
Certainly pilot skill is the difference. But, given even pilots, I can't see how the P-47 should be the prefered ride in the MA. Now, if we were going to keep the fight high, 15k and up, perhaps the jug would see the advantage. But on the deck, the jug is simply out of its element. The jug wasn't built as a low-alt fighter.
I love to try and fly the jug, but for MA engagements, it's just not the best ride in the lineup and given a choice between the jug and Nik in the MA, I can't see the jug being the better choice. However, I am living proof that given a better pilot, any plane can beat the other.
For most MA engaements, the Lghey or spit16 are prolly the best rides, as most fights are below 5-8k, but who wants to simply fly the fastest, most dominating planes EVERY frikkin time? (ok....don't answer, that was rhetorical;)) I could probably do a LOT better if I flew somethin other than N (I die most every time with D40/25, cant SEE out of D11..simply havent the skills to win with those)...but it's gratifying to, in the rare occasions where there actually IS a dogfight, come away the victor against the more common late-war rides
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as Widewing posted, I too prefer to fly less uber planes.....but at the same time, it is fun to up what some think to be an uber plane or dweeb type plane ( think noob flown plane ) and surprise people.......
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That was a great post widewing- thanks.
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Originally posted by Fruda
I find it increasingly easy to prey on N1Ks. They never seem to put up much of a fight, and they're quite slow. The only danger is their cannons, but even then they're not that difficult to avoid with competent tactics.
Ki-61s and Ki-84s put up a much better fight, just like you said. They float like you wouldn't believe, and that's why you really have to be careful.
lol, you guys are teh funnay. I can say the same for the 47s and 51s. Most don't put up a fight. The dive in and run. Why do you think a 47 cab beat a NIKI? Witch one of the 47s? Its not the plane that is not putting up a fight. Its the dweeb in it.
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I'd say the P47 will win, mainly because usually P47 have better/more experienced jocks in it then N1K's.
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Originally posted by raider73
Personally i think N1K will win because i usually do what do you guys think??? :D
On which planet?????