Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: badhorse on October 30, 2007, 06:58:35 AM
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Like most of you I've seen folks warping around the sky. When that happens I usually send them a note letting them know. Sometimes they respond with "thanks. I didn't know. I will re-log". However sometimes the response is "Sorry dude, it is my (satellite) (DSL) (dial-uo) connection".
1) Is there a difference between those who warp intentionally and those who know they are warping due to a bad connection but take advantage of it anyway?
2) To you techies out there. Is there a fix for the bad connection problem.
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The warps I find most annoying, which are so common they can't be connection related, is the warps performed by drone bombers. If the lead buff turns too hard and looses his drones they warp to catch up once he stops jerking about the sky. Very annoying if you're about to pull the trigger on one of them.
I notice that my drones are able to catch me up even if I'm at full power which implies that they have slightly tweaked performance compared to the lead aircraft. (I can see why this was done and am not complaining about it.) This might be common knowledge here but was a surprise to me.
Trip
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"lost upd, switching to ufo" or whatever followed by a warp about 30 sec's long, (usually in a fight, ) then everything goes back to normal, and ive usually escaped being shot down, nope i never plan it either, it just happens. I will relog, if im tipped off "im warping" no biggy.
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Originally posted by badhorse
Like most of you I've seen folks warping around the sky. When that happens I usually send them a note letting them know. Sometimes they respond with "thanks. I didn't know. I will re-log". However sometimes the response is "Sorry dude, it is my (satellite) (DSL) (dial-uo) connection".
1) Is there a difference between those who warp intentionally and those who know they are warping due to a bad connection but take advantage of it anyway?
2) To you techies out there. Is there a fix for the bad connection problem.
From what i understand from some of skuzzys posts on the subject is that "isp's" are in the process of switching parts of their systems to what skuzzy refers to as "TIER3" or something to that effect, it is a good system for exchangeing packages for gameplay, however the system is now overloaded and can't handle all the servers it has to, so lost packets are the result, lately I have been warping to beat the band and game play becomes difficult if not impossible, so i just log, if i haven't been discoed already.
I do not beleave there is anyone in the game that is intentionally warping, I don't see how it would be possible.
DON
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When my dial-up broke and I had to go with my HughesNet "Satelite" connection I knew I was warping a little bit, that's why I took gvs most of the time. I did go up and fly a little and got pm'd a few times that I was warping. Told them it was my connection and that I was trying to get it fixed. I never took advantage of it because when I warped to them, they warped to me.
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Originally posted by badhorse
Like most of you I've seen folks warping around the sky. When that happens I usually send them a note letting them know. Sometimes they respond with "thanks. I didn't know. I will re-log". However sometimes the response is "Sorry dude, it is my (satellite) (DSL) (dial-uo) connection".
1) Is there a difference between those who warp intentionally and those who know they are warping due to a bad connection but take advantage of it anyway?
2) To you techies out there. Is there a fix for the bad connection problem.
I'm on statellite and yes I do warp some times but guess what, when I get close to a con more times than not they change possition just as I fire and I totally miss em, tell me how I'm using that to my advantage. I'm in a part of the world where the only internet available to me is satellite. So sorry dude...
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The warps I object to are the ones that SEEM so smooth until you line up on their 6. Then WARP!
I've watched some that flying within 200 yards are SMOOTH but soon as I get on their 6 WARP!
I've seen some that don't warp no matter the distance and then when I almost have a solution to fire WARP. And I'm NOT on their 6 but coming in from at an angle from the side.
I've even had em warp BIG time after my 1st rounds reach em. 1 or 2 rounds actually land and then WARP.
Some of the warps sure SEEM to happen at the best possible time for the warper.
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There are no cheaters in this game. Warp is due strictly to internet connection.
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Originally posted by wrag
The warps I object to are the ones that SEEM so smooth until you line up on their 6. Then WARP!
I've watched some that flying within 200 yards are SMOOTH but soon as I get on their 6 WARP!
I've seen some that don't warp no matter the distance and then when I almost have a solution to fire WARP. And I'm NOT on their 6 but coming in from at an angle from the side.
I've even had em warp BIG time after my 1st rounds reach em. 1 or 2 rounds actually land and then WARP.
Some of the warps sure SEEM to happen at the best possible time for the warper.
think about it while it's happening, when you get close or they get close this is when the system is exchangeing the most info, in regards to your location and attitude as well as his location and attitude, both your systems are relaying alot of info to the system, these are the packets you send in, now the system gets those packets and his, sorts out the info and sends new info back to you in the form of a packet which says,"I see you,AND him Isee where your going and what your doing" if one or more of you has a lost packet on the way back or the way in the system will place your target on the screen only where it knows it's been and where it's going, if a packet is dropped, this is your warp. think of the warp as a momentary loss of information by the system.
when you get close the need for the system to update itself, him, and you is the greatest and most likely to get screwed up.
if you read skuzzys posts on the subject it's fairly easy to see what the problem is, i don't think anyone is doing it intentionally.
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Originally posted by yanksfan
think about it while it's happening, when you get close or they get close this is when the system is exchangeing the most info, in regards to your location and attitude as well as his location and attitude, both your systems are relaying alot of info to the system, these are the packets you send in, now the system gets those packets and his, sorts out the info and sends new info back to you in the form of a packet which says,"I see you,AND him Isee where your going and what your doing" if one or more of you has a lost packet on the way back or the way in the system will place your target on the screen only where it knows it's been and where it's going, if a packet is dropped, this is your warp. think of the warp as a momentary loss of information by the system.
when you get close the need for the system to update itself, him, and you is the greatest and most likely to get screwed up.
if you read skuzzys posts on the subject it's fairly easy to see what the problem is, i don't think anyone is doing it intentionally.
Very nice explanation :aok Can you repeat where it says why the packets get lost only when I am on their 6? They seem to have no issues when they are on mine :noid
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I'd be happy to test that theory ded if I ever SAW your six ;)
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Originally posted by VWE
I'm on statellite and yes I do warp some times but guess what, when I get close to a con more times than not they change possition just as I fire and I totally miss em, tell me how I'm using that to my advantage. I'm in a part of the world where the only internet available to me is satellite. So sorry dude...
It depends. The shooter records the kill so if there is lag the bad guy may think you don't have a guns solution while on your FE you do. That gives you the edge. If however the coad has something in it that forces an update (somehow) when the trigger is pulled then you are screwed. Just trying to explain how you could have an advantage or disadvantage. If you are on sat you are on sat, nothing to do about it.
You can see this working in a GV. Get in a panzer and have a friend in a B25. Start the engine but dont move the panzer while the b25 is lining up his cannon. Coordinate with your friend so that 4 seconds before he fires at you, you start moving straight and about 2 seconds after you break left or right. Compare the films and see the difference. You will see the gun hitting the ground way behind you while on his film you took a direct hit. If you are lucky like me you will explode also, lol.
This also explains all the cries on 200 about impossible shots. Just the way it is. Nothing to do about it until HT finds a way to make electrons move faster. (2 weeks ?:D )
EDIT: Not sure if the film will show the round hitting behind you but you will see it in real time if you are looking behind you in the game
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Originally posted by dedalos
Very nice explanation :aok Can you repeat where it says why the packets get lost only when I am on their 6? They seem to have no issues when they are on mine :noid
They don't yank sticks when they are on your 6, but they do that when you are on their. :)
When you fly straight and with the same speed warp is not seen even in case of packets lost, because no information was lost. Your computer has enough information from previous packets to calculate correct position of your opponent if he moves straright.
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Originally posted by Vad
They don't yank sticks when they are on your 6, but they do that when you are on their. :)
When you fly straight and with the same speed warp is not seen even in case of packets lost, because no information was lost. Your computer has enough information from previous packets to calculate correct position of your opponent if he moves straright.
The last thing I do when I have someone on my 6 is fly straight.
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FYI, if you are on statellite you are probably warping most all of the time.
Statellite is the worst connection you can have to fly on.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Very nice explanation :aok Can you repeat where it says why the packets get lost only when I am on their 6? They seem to have no issues when they are on mine :noid
Ya know, I really don't know, I'm coming to understand a bit more about it as i have heard alot more people who have never had a warping problems have one lately, now i too have a warping problem where i never had one b4, so i'm trying to understand why, and part of why is how, you have to know how you warp in order to determine why your warping, I have a very slight understanding of it now but in no way do i fully understand.
from what I gather from skuzzy's posts, is that the vast majority of the recent warping problems we are haveing is do to a relitively new "backbone" that some ISP's are useing now, comcast being one of them, which is my isp. the system or backbone they are useing apparently comes from another company (if I understand this right) and it's a good system, but as yet it can't handle all the customers it has, it's overloaded.
Furthermore what I get out of what skuzzy has to say about it, is, there isn't much you can do, if you change isp's more then likely you will end up back in the same boat, if not right away, eventually.
I have never heard of even one person who had been caught intentionally warping, so imho and from the fact that when i have warped offence was out of the question, I don't think it happens, tho I may be wrong.
Don
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Originally posted by WMLute
FYI, if you are on statellite you are probably warping most all of the time.
Statellite is the worst connection you can have to fly on.
< proof :D
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Originally posted by WMLute
FYI, if you are on statellite you are probably warping most all of the time.
Statellite is the worst connection you can have to fly on.
Satellite connections aren't the best. Especially during peak hours. If you can get a cable connection, it would be a lot better.
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Originally posted by wrag
The warps I object to are the ones that SEEM so smooth until you line up on their 6. Then WARP!
I've watched some that flying within 200 yards are SMOOTH but soon as I get on their 6 WARP!
I've seen some that don't warp no matter the distance and then when I almost have a solution to fire WARP. And I'm NOT on their 6 but coming in from at an angle from the side.
I've even had em warp BIG time after my 1st rounds reach em. 1 or 2 rounds actually land and then WARP.
Some of the warps sure SEEM to happen at the best possible time for the warper.
I have a dozen video's atleast of people in GV's doing this. They are fine, no warping, but when a shell is about the hit them, the suddenly reverse or charge forward, only to return to the point the shell landed right afterward. I'm not talking good timed moves either.. take one of them I sent Skuzzy that has an M3 going full keel.. suddenly, when the round gets near him, he goes full reverse without stopping, or slowing down. Cheating? maybe, wouldn't doubt it. The timing is just too conveinent.
One other thing, maybe it has to do with Lag, but I'm compiling a collection of these videos to send to Skuzzy too. How many of you out there can survive a tiger shell at point blank range, 3 times in an M3? The tiger was the worst, but it mostly happens in M4's and Panzers. I have a list of names I'm also compiling of those who are guilty of these 'offense's' so maybe yall should stop now. Either way, I will enjoy finally getting those who exploit off this game atleast for a few minutes and force them to pay more if it comes to canceling thier accounts. Every game I've ever played, people fully take advantage of exploits, but if it's a huge problem, the programers don't care because then they'd lose too many people by banning them all, or even suspending them. The only time I've ever seen the players force the programers to fix an issue was when we organized a boycott and 'walked' out. While it wasn't fun, those left in the game complained about there being no one to fight.. well, the only way to fix that was to fix the issues.Took two weeks, but suddenly, the problem area's were off limits, or people couldn't log into that character until they fixxed the issues.
Boycotting probably wouldn't work here because too many people enjoy exploits, or just don't care enough to want them fixed. Me? I'd do it in a heart beat. I can find other things to do, and if I have to quit the game.. so be it. Is why I'm back in AH full time.. last game, I walked out wiuth about 100 peeps. We had been told it was working as intended and that suchg and such was impossible, to which we responded by posting about 30 screens of this so called impossible act. We were told it's a fluke. A fluke that happened on atleast 17 seperate occasions by our screens alone in the course of a week.
HTC will fix the problems one day, but probably not soon. Most games have the same mentality: We'll give them things they want in terms of shiney objects, and make them forget the fact the house is rotting beneath thier feet. Most will become sedated, and stop complaining long enough for new shiney things to take thier interest. While this might not be the full truth, I am only an outsider after all... If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and walks like a duck.. 99.9% chance it is a duck. HTC is not the first to follow this patern, nor will they be the last :(
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Originally posted by TwentyFo
There are no cheaters in this game. Warp is due strictly to internet connection.
What game are you playing again?
what is your term of a cheater? Someone who has an unfair advantage over others by using non normal means? Gimme your email, I have a few videos to send you.
If that's not your definition.. then you need to look up the word.
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Originally posted by TwentyFo
There are no cheaters in this game. Warp is due strictly to internet connection.
wrong, u can easily make a gismo to cause warp with a simple light switch
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I was chasing set of buffs one night. As I drew into guns range he was instantly behind me firing and took me down.
We exchanged several PM's afterwards and he knew he had a warping problem around enemy cons and was smart enough to take full advantage of it.
That, in my mind, is no different than cheating. If he had any honor he'd lay off the guns after the warp, not jump guns to take advantage of it.
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grab a 190..get speed..stik stir like crazy if someone shoots at you..
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My warping was caused not by my connection but some resource issue with my old weak laptop, either something with the video or cpu I dunno but. when I'd change views, i'd sometimes get a stutter and a warp. so in my case thats why I'd appear to warp when someone would be near my 6, I'd be switching views, etc. (also remember to the warper, everyone else looks like theyre warping too, so its not fun)
whatever the case since I got much more powerful laptop, I have had no complaints about me warping, and I'm on the exact same connection. in fact, I rarely see anyone ELSE warping either.
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I would hope that the jumping bomber drone warp could be addressed in some not to distant patch. I think I would prefer to have locational errors (on my FE) correct them selves by drones flying a little more smoothly to their proper position rather than warping to new locations.
This smoothing may induce flight paths that are not in reality (actually) possible .............but then warping is not so common an event in reality either.
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Originally posted by kvuo75
My warping was caused not by my connection but some resource issue with my old weak laptop, either something with the video or cpu I dunno but. when I'd change views, i'd sometimes get a stutter and a warp. so in my case thats why I'd appear to warp when someone would be near my 6, I'd be switching views, etc. (also remember to the warper, everyone else looks like theyre warping too, so its not fun)
whatever the case since I got much more powerful laptop, I have had no complaints about me warping, and I'm on the exact same connection. in fact, I rarely see anyone ELSE warping either.
yep when I loose UDP everyone disappears I do not find this to be in anyway helpful .
Some one once told me "you should dissengage if you loose UDP" ..I had to laugh because the loss of UDP does in fact cause a disengage as everyone I see disappears and reappears somewhere else.
I suppose if noone is in front of me and I loose UDP I wouldn't even notice (because no one would appear to warp)
but I can tell you that is sucks when you are about to kill someone (you think) and all of of sudden everyone moves to a new unexpected location.
I have never had anyone suddenly appear in front of me lol.
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Actually, I believe the issue is more that some ISP's are now beginning to prioritize packets destined to "mainstream" ports and services over more esoteric and less common ones - so web browsing will continue to be responsive while stuff like peer to peer file sharing gets cut back when the network gets congested.
Unfortunately, AH takes it in the shorts along with Limewire and Morpheus.
Yanksfan, we love ya but you are most definately naive if you don't think that some folks will get away with what they can just because they can (or think they can). If you think otherwise, just go ask the guys who play in the 8-Player Internet Rooms. (Oh yeah, first ask them why there AREN'T any any more...)
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How come none of these threads ever mentions latency?
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Because latency doesn't cause warping. Fluctuations in latency and/or information that doesn't get where it's supposed to, or at least when it's supposed to, causes warping.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I was chasing set of buffs one night. As I drew into guns range he was instantly behind me firing and took me down.
We exchanged several PM's afterwards and he knew he had a warping problem around enemy cons and was smart enough to take full advantage of it.
That, in my mind, is no different than cheating. If he had any honor he'd lay off the guns after the warp, not jump guns to take advantage of it.
agreed.
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Originally posted by TwentyFo
There are no cheaters in this game. Warp is due strictly to internet connection.
No offense but that's a tad naive approach to any online game.
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the other day I was in a long protracted fight with a F4U-4 that went to the deck, I was all over him for a solid 3 miniuted and he never warped, was in fact smooth as glass..
then he pulled straight up and I followed.. I had more speed and was only D400 out.. I was waiting for him to tip over. his direction started to change (started to tip back towards me.. but he kept going UP, not in the direction he was pointing.. just moving upwards.. while being pointed to the left... I finally stalled and nosed over and I look behind me and hes jigging all over the sky, left right.. like the way bomber drones do sometimes.. he did this for maybe 5 seconds and it abruptly quit.. and he ran away.. I chased but couldent catch up... but he was withing D1.5/2.5 for a while and I never saw him warp around...
it was one of those "coincidences" that makes you think maybe it wasn't a coincidence..
oh well, I just go :huh then :cry and rolled on. haven thought about it much till i saw this thread
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Originally posted by Ghastly
Because latency doesn't cause warping. Fluctuations in latency and/or information that doesn't get where it's supposed to, or at least when it's supposed to, causes warping.
data not getting where it's supposed to when it's supposed to IS latency.
That's why crowded arenas have the most problems. The server's got too much to handle in a timely manner slowing response time down along the data chain.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
Actually, I believe the issue is more that some ISP's are now beginning to prioritize packets destined to "mainstream" ports and services over more esoteric and less common ones - so web browsing will continue to be responsive while stuff like peer to peer file sharing gets cut back when the network gets congested.
Unfortunately, AH takes it in the shorts along with Limewire and Morpheus.
Not true. Most shaping occurs at layer 7 these days.
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Well, whatever. I've been gv'ing a lot recently due to warping - game is as unplayable for the warper as for the warpee.
I've been spending a lot of time looking at the net status screen to see if there are any actions / situations which provoke it, but there's nothing which works consistently. I can be flying alone, with nothing but blue sky above and cloud below, and get huge sawtooths in the pattern. Or small ones. Above the line. Or sometimes below it.
Then, as randomly as they start, they stop again.
Not sure there's anything I can do at this point.