Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rich46yo on November 03, 2007, 06:08:04 AM
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One just doesn't see it in the air much. In the actual war the T-bolt was the machine as close to the title "one airplane wrecking crew" that the Allies ever had. In everything it made a far larger contribution then any other Yank fighter.
Fighter, escort, Jabo, the airplane did it all, did it well, and did it often.
But its not as "beautiful" as the P-51 nor does it have the ponys mystique. I know its at its best up above where most of the action is going on but so are many other airplanes that one see's far more often.
Why is that?
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Much like the real world. The AH Jug has both its fans and its critics.
A lot depends on who's flying it and how its flown.
Down low jugs are lunch, la5, yak, spit 16, can eat it up on average pretty easily.
At 14-16k its a whole nother world up there folks. And some of those folks are very very comfortable. The same planes that handled it easily on the deck are in turn lunch for the jug.
Easiest way to avoid this problem?
Never go above 8k :) Especially hunting jugs, esp in russian fighters.
Although I think the same would be pretty much true for the Nik as well.
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i like P47D 11 for BOom and zooming:t
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Actually they are surprisingly agile in AH2. I took a break for a couple years, and something definitely feels like it changed.
I use the P-47-D-25 and D-40 for Jabo work, and after the ord comes off they are very competent fighters, even down on the deck. Once the flaps come out they can hold a flat turn with a radius that would do a zeke proud, granted the turn rate isn't much to write home about.
I would rate the P-47 as far superior to any 190 in a knife fight (which wasn't the case when I left), and a little bit better than the P-51D, simply because it has more snapshot power and durability and doesn't feel any less manueverable any more.
Given equal pilots you'd probably get eaten up in the MA low, but if you have even some slight knowledge on how to fight and you manage to kill your opponents quickly, you should be able to hold your own in it.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Why is that?
The Jug suffers from two things: poor PR and no winning move.
All the glory went to the Ponies (on the USAAF side). There are few people who have deep historical interest in the Jug when they join the game.
On the performance front, the jug is a little out of its element in MA settings. Worst of all, it is not a one trick plane. To be popular in the MA you need one of the 3: Speed, turn, quad cannons. Once you are at the top of one category, you can be successful in your ride after you learn one good move. Large fraction of the players will never learn more than that. The versatile planes (F6F, P38, P47, 190A5, 109G2 etc) that are decent but not best at anything, require a much larger and more adaptable bag of tricks. This is the reason they are not as popular.
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I see plenty of Jugs. You just don't see many actually maintaining alt. Almost all of those I see grab about 10-15K then dive on a field, drop ord, lose E and become fodder for the masses.
Very few of the Jug drivers in the MA's actually know how to fly them (although there are a few).
Where you're flying, in buffs, I'm not surprised you don't see many considering how they are used in the MA's.
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Actually, I had a good deck fight with a spit16.
I had my flaps fully extended and we were there for 5 mins...I was truly in a "Stall Fight" with my gear down lightly touching the ground on every turn.
I was in a D40...it can turn with spit16s, if you can fly it right.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Actually they are surprisingly agile in AH2. I took a break for a couple years, and something definitely feels like it changed.
I use the P-47-D-25 and D-40 for Jabo work, and after the ord comes off they are very competent fighters, even down on the deck. Once the flaps come out they can hold a flat turn with a radius that would do a zeke proud, granted the turn rate isn't much to write home about.
I would rate the P-47 as far superior to any 190 in a knife fight (which wasn't the case when I left), and a little bit better than the P-51D, simply because it has more snapshot power and durability and doesn't feel any less manueverable any more.
Given equal pilots you'd probably get eaten up in the MA low, but if you have even some slight knowledge on how to fight and you manage to kill your opponents quickly, you should be able to hold your own in it.
I fly the P-47 quite a bit and the beating it will give a P-51 can be epic. Better turn radius and rate. Excellent flaps, good ailerons and zoom climb. In terms of acceleration, the Mustangs do not have much advantage (if any depending upon weight). The only advantage going to the P-51 is max speed.
The typical MA pilots (flying virtually anything) running into a skilled Jug driver would find themselves peeing their pants in short order, should they underestimate the P-47.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
One just doesn't see it in the air much. In the actual war the T-bolt was the machine as close to the title "one airplane wrecking crew" that the Allies ever had. In everything it made a far larger contribution then any other Yank fighter.
Fighter, escort, Jabo, the airplane did it all, did it well, and did it often.
But its not as "beautiful" as the P-51 nor does it have the ponys mystique. I know its at its best up above where most of the action is going on but so are many other airplanes that one see's far more often.
Why is that?
i saw one running last night:D
oo...and in it's own way, it actually IS a very beautiful aircraft rich.......i've got several great pics of them in my screensaver slideshow on my laptop.
someday i might fly it in here......
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Most folks sense of 'normal' is a spit/niki/lghey where ya just yank and bank.....none of the 4 jugs is that sort of plane. After noticing that, said folks put jug in hangar and go back to yank and bank. Whatever makes your 15$ worth it to you...cant blame them for not flying plane they have no fun with
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The P-47 is dear to me because, not just for being a WW-ll history buff, a dear friend of mine flew them during the war. He's passed on now but some of the stories he used to tell....
And I had an uncle who was a bombadier in B-17s too. Between the two of them I learned to love both airplanes at a young age.
Ive mixed it up with a few P-47s. One I pinged so many times I thought I was shooting rubber. Which is correct modeling because the real life Thunderbolt was probably the toughest fighter we ever built.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
The P-47 is dear to me because, not just for being a WW-ll history buff, a dear friend of mine flew them during the war. He's passed on now but some of the stories he used to tell....
And I had an uncle who was a bombadier in B-17s too. Between the two of them I learned to love both airplanes at a young age.
Ive mixed it up with a few P-47s. One I pinged so many times I thought I was shooting rubber. Which is correct modeling because the real life Thunderbolt was probably the toughest fighter we ever built.
dude! i'm not sure if they should go in this forum......but.......i'd be willing to bet i'm not the only one that'd like to hear some of them.......:aok
<>
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Originally posted by Widewing
I fly the P-47 quite a bit and the beating it will give a P-51 can be epic. Better turn radius and rate. Excellent flaps, good ailerons and zoom climb. In terms of acceleration, the Mustangs do not have much advantage (if any depending upon weight). The only advantage going to the P-51 is max speed.
The typical MA pilots (flying virtually anything) running into a skilled Jug driver would find themselves peeing their pants in short order, should they underestimate the P-47.
My regards,
Widewing
hey widewing.......
last one i ran into that actually fought(meaning no ho)........was flown by redtop.........and i didn't have tiem to pee my pants:rofl :rofl ....
he kicked my arsse too fast(i was in a 38l)
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I want to learn the P-47 so badly it hurts :cry. They are wonderful planes, takes a above average skilled pilot to pilot one effectively. But i'll learn it one day.
As for not seeing enough, there around. Either above 15k+ or on the deck fighting for there lifes, the ones you see on the deck are the inexperienced ones( most of the time) and the ones you catch above 15k will hand you your arse :eek:
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Originally posted by MjTalon
I want to learn the P-47 so badly it hurts :cry. They are wonderful planes, takes a above average skilled pilot to pilot one effectively. But i'll learn it one day.
As for not seeing enough, there around. Either above 15k+ or on the deck fighting for there lifes, the ones you see on the deck are the inexperienced ones( most of the time) and the ones you catch above 15k will hand you your arse :eek:
You can fly the N on the deck to some extent, its faster than spit16 as long as wep holds out, CERTainly more exciting than 15k:aok
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The P-47D11 has excellent maneuverability. All you need is a snapshot at convergence, and those 8 .50 cals will snap off wings and tails with ease.
However, below 150mph, maneuverability drops off quick. 150-250 is the sweet spot.
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I can make my D-11 turn with spits with my six gun option :D
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*Turns with P-47s all day in his A6M*
That being said I can't say I haven't been beat by them. You don't come past a good P47 pilot often but when I do I'm lucky to not be a flying BBQ or even get some lead into him*
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Yea i was gonna say AirFlyer, any P47 you've come across that wasn't slow probably set you on fire just by looking at it :lol
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Decided to take up a Jug today, did fairly well. 15 kills between the D-40 and D-11 (keep in mind I havent really flown the Jug before), though some of those were vulches. I even got an LA with an e advantage. I gotta try the D-11 with the six gun package, thing must be a beast...
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P-47D40 with 25% fuel, 6 guns, and ammunition expended climbs at over 4k/min. Might be helpful incase you find yourself in a sticky situation.
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Originally posted by Motherland
Decided to take up a Jug today, did fairly well. 15 kills between the D-40 and D-11 (keep in mind I havent really flown the Jug before), though some of those were vulches. I even got an LA with an e advantage. I gotta try the D-11 with the six gun package, thing must be a beast...
You'd think the D-11 with 6 gun option is a spitfire.... honestly the thing turns with hurricanes with 6 guns and 75% or less fuel :eek:
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Originally posted by CAP1
dude! i'm not sure if they should go in this forum......but.......i'd be willing to bet i'm not the only one that'd like to hear some of them.......:aok
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John used to talk a lot about blowing up trains. He used to love to blow up trains. He also used to talk about how the war turned when the 47s and 51s were allowed to roam almost at will blowing up targets of opportunity. Most of all Luftwaffe targets. And until the end of his days he always had a lot of respect for the Luftwaffe and often said it amazed him how they were able to hold out for so long against the thousands and thousands of Jabos, fighters, and bombers sent against them almost daily.
He said the damage that could be inflicted by a P-47 with a full load of rockets and 8 0.50s had to be seen to be believed.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
John used to talk a lot about blowing up trains. He used to love to blow up trains. He also used to talk about how the war turned when the 47s and 51s were allowed to roam almost at will blowing up targets of opportunity. Most of all Luftwaffe targets. And until the end of his days he always had a lot of respect for the Luftwaffe and often said it amazed him how they were able to hold out for so long against the thousands and thousands of Jabos, fighters, and bombers sent against them almost daily.
He said the damage that could be inflicted by a P-47 with a full load of rockets and 8 0.50s had to be seen to be believed.
rich......i really wish i could've met either one of them...i got the chance to meet a B24 bombadier one day at trenton mercer county airport...and this guy had pictures of some of his drops, and even the roadmaps they used to be issued on cloth, in case he had to bail over enemy territory......i was there for CAP training..and this guy had 10 of us in awe.......his name was Nick Reed...flew 22 missions from southern italy before war ended. he also got 10 handshakes, and thank you's for what he did for all of us. hope your dad knows tht there'ds a lot of us that thank him and his comrades for their service!!
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john
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I fly it all the time as its my main ride. I've been shot up more in this aircraft and come home then any other aircraft - except perhaps an A-20. All the jug requires is mission planning - have a plan to get in - and a plan to get out - and don't be afraid to fight in the vertical. And you see plenty of Jugs around and there are some very good sticks around: Stoney74, LEDPIG, Frenchy, Nomde to name a few. The trick is - treat a jug like you treat a P-40, and be on your game. The second you get overconfident flying a hair dryer, LA-7 or Spit 16 is the moment they **** you up.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/204_1154751200_p47nvsfw190a8modcopy.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/204_1128316559_fw190dvsp47nmod3copy.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/204_1126473621_p47ndrilldownwithblurs.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1012_1156271942_p47nvsburningfw-190dmod3copy.jpg)
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Returned to AH last night after a six month break, and a Jug kicked my ElGhay bellybutton ... well he had a Pony friend too. :aok
I'm always astonished how fast that big crate can haul its nose around.
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Originally posted by Viking
Returned to AH last night after a six month break, and a Jug kicked my ElGhay bellybutton ... well he had a Pony friend too. :aok
I'm always astonished how fast that big crate can haul its nose around.
High speed flaps really help the P-47 by bleeding excess E rapidly, which tightens the turn much faster than most pilots expect. A good Jug stick can often beat a Spitfire around on the initial reverse. He'll need to, because that opening advantage disappears quickly.
Last Thursday evening, we held one of our Engaging Multiple Enemies clinics in the TA. We had about a dozen MA regulars practicing fighting groups of enemy fighters. Towards the end of the evening, we fought 5 on 3 engagements. For most of the evening I flew a P-47D-25 or a P-47D-11.
I find the P-47 to be a perfectly adequate aircraft for these scrums. I never feel that I'm at a disadvantage. A well-flown P-47 is quite capable, especially in a high-speed fight. It's an airplane that responds to smooth handling on the controls. Manage your E well and the Jug will reward you. Be sloppy, jerky or waste E and you'll find yourself sucking wind.
My regards,
Widewing
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Rich, Don't be fooled, the jug will not turn with a spit16 all day long, assuming you are not fighting a brand new AH player with half a clue on ACM. Anyone that claims so is more than welcome to send me their film of a dogfight with Shawk's or Skyrock's Spit16, and I'll pray everynight facing their hometown.
What will save you in the jug, is the initial capability of bleeding E faster than the other guy as mentioned by Widewing, and a lazerguided foolproof gunery. Nothing less than an old AH fox will survive a dogfight ina jug, and only if fighting against a couple of newbies.
Nice pics Wolfala.
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Well heres the thing. The P-47 was a very high impact weapon system in the actual war. But...that doesn't exactly translate into a highly desirable dogfighter in a war sim.
I guess I got one chance to see why the P-47 was a one airplane wrecking crew in WW-ll. The Bish were running a mission and I snuck into one of the gun positions at our airfield. The Bish featured the P-47 flying heavy, I saw that as I saw them approaching the airbase.
Well, those P-47s, with all those bombs and rockets on them, just shredded that airbase and then hung around dancing with our own fighters. I was impressed with what those T-Bolts did to that base. I mean they just blew it up.
Yeah there are other planes that can carry all that ordinance but is there another one that can carry all that, mix it up pretty well with other fighters, and then bring you home, as good as the P-47??
I dont think so. Which is why the T-bolt was so successful in the war and why it can be so successful in the game. It is simply a "great" airplane and deserves as much, or more, of the accolades the pony ever got.
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The thing is whether it carries enough to kill ONE hangar---2 1k's and 6 rockets will do that---so jug would have 1 500+ 4 rockets left over, but would likely die tryin to do 2nd pass---p51, f6, f4u, p38, all have enough for the 1 hangar, which is ample for a base swarm/horde
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Plus rich the pony is much more sexy!
donkey
PS: And you know it!:aok
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Originally posted by Wolfala
Wolfala, those are just freaking amazingly gorgeous pics. What steps did you use to generate them?
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
Plus rich the pony is much more sexy!
donkey
PS: And you know it!:aok
I'll go farther and say the Pony is an actual icon in American culture. I'll bet the P-51 is recognized by more Yanks then any other fighter aircraft. Even now 60 years since it last flew in combat.
I admit to loving the P-51. Everything about it I love and physically its a beautiful airplane and historically it symbolizes, to me, freedom and the ascension of American air power that still dominates to this day.
But I also pay homage to the P-47 T-bolt which also, btw, probably had a bigger impact on the war then the P-51.
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In AW P-47 was a dog. In AH its a viable killer. Not as much firepower as a FW or as pretty as a P-51. Good speed, durability decent ammo load. Only real knock is same for P-51 and some other american planes. No cannons.
I've only flown the P-47 a handfull of times, well actually I've only flown most of the aircraft a handfull of times. I found the P-47 quite easy and forgiving compared to some other aircraft.
On one flight I made a typical rookie mistake of turning with a another plane at 5k. One turn and it was 'uh oh! I screwed up. As soon as the bullets wizzed by I pulled a quick split ass, nose down and wep on, throttle pass detent and it was like a ice cream truck runnin away from a fat kid.
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Originally posted by alskahawk
I pulled a quick split ass, nose down and wep on ...
:rofl
It is not nice to moon your opponents before diving away. ;)
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Originally posted by Viking
:rofl
It is not nice to moon your opponents before diving away. ;)
(Cleans coffee off monitor and keyboard)
That was funny...
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I will be doing my part to make the P-47 more visible. I have decided to make this my primary ride in the coming months. I hope that I don't diminish its reputation.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Rich, Don't be fooled, the jug will not turn with a spit16 all day long, assuming you are not fighting a brand new AH player with half a clue on ACM. Anyone that claims so is more than welcome to send me their film of a dogfight with Shawk's or Skyrock's Spit16, and I'll pray everynight facing their hometown.
What will save you in the jug, is the initial capability of bleeding E faster than the other guy as mentioned by Widewing, and a lazerguided foolproof gunery. Nothing less than an old AH fox will survive a dogfight ina jug, and only if fighting against a couple of newbies.
Nice pics Wolfala.
Listen to Frenchy - he's one of the original P47 masters!
Its excellent initial turn rate and excellent firepower will get it kills. Its dive and zoom can be quite impressive too. You have to be super aggressive and go for the throat immediately and get those super-shredders pointed at your victim ASAP. Fights that progress too long play away from the Jug.
However turn fighting a spit in a jug wont go in your favour for much more than a couple of turns due to its poor acceleration compared to the spit.
Up high (15K+) the Jug shines. This is its playground and bread and butter kill zone, IMO.
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In Aces High, at mil-power, the P47D11 burns one gallon of gas every 5 seconds. The P-51 at mil power burns one gallon of gas every 14 seconds.
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47s zap things dead. Range not an issue.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
But its not as "beautiful" as the P-51 nor does it have the ponys mystique. I know its at its best up above where most of the action is going on but so are many other airplanes that one see's far more often.
Why is that?
I have to say, the Mustang is one of the ugliest aircraft to come out of world war two.
The Corsair and the Jug are far more impressive aircraft from an aesthetic point of view.
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Can you say elephantism, or "flies like an egyptian"?
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
In Aces High, at mil-power, the P47D11 burns one gallon of gas every 5 seconds. The P-51 at mil power burns one gallon of gas every 14 seconds.
Thats why I fly nuthin but jugs! TOO big..TOO loud, burns absurd amount of gas..TOO many guns...it's got Amuurica written all over it:aok Kinda like airplane version of Harley:lol
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Much like the real world. The AH Jug has both its fans and its critics.
A lot depends on who's flying it and how its flown.
Down low jugs are lunch, la5, yak, spit 16, can eat it up on average pretty easily.
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I agree with this for the most part, except for the 2nd part.
I started with the p47d-25 and d-40 learned my throttle control and how much flaps were necessary, I got to know the plane rather than hopping in a spitfire and thinking I could fly.
The p47 down low might not be as EASY to fly as up high, and might knock a little bit off of it's responce time and max turn rate, but nothing an experianced pilot couldn't make up with throttle and flap control, heck, I've been ganged by a yak9u Spit16 spit8 la5fn and la7 all at once, decided to have fun with it and make it into a stall fight with all of em on my 6, cut throttle to 25% with full flaps, and I was outturning them as they overshot one by one, they became mince meat to my 50 cals.
It all depends on who's flyin em. :aok
Usually out of respect, unless someone in my squad asks for help, theyre attacking my package (who I'm escorting) OR theyre attacking a base, i'll let other p47/p38 pilots go. all p series pilots that know their planes, and know how to use em. P planes are great, and so are F's (i.e. Wildcat Corsair and Hellcat).
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My Jug tactics are as follows
1. Pick 50% fuel and either one or two underwing droptanks. I take all eight and the heavy ammo load just cause i like it. They don't call me LEDPIG for nothing.
2. Takeoff and climb to altitude, 12 -13k is usually good. Just be above the horde.
3. Stalk and observe your prey, dive when you can intercept at a good point. Pick targets that are highest or on the edge of the furball. Also pick targets that are unaware if possible.
4. Dive with good speed, use wep if possible. Go as fast as you can and still be able to track a target for a second if it decides to turn after seeing you. If you can't make shot keep going.
5. Look behind you to see if you've been had. If you kept your speed it's no problem. Also before making an attack be aware of who's in position to get on your tail and if you'll have the E to get away from them.
6. If you meet a con up high you can dogfight with them. But if you see yourself getting too low disengage if possible. I will dogfight Typhies, Mustangs, Lightnings, Corsairs, Hellcats. With the latter two i might go only one to one and a half turns before i disengage. At that point i've lost the advantage. Spits i generally don't dogfight unless you can catch a quick shot after the initial turn. I usually stay away from Spits unless i have some E advantage.
7. After making an attack keep going straight for awhile start climbing after you've gotten 1-2k away. Pick an altitude and climb back up after every attack. Watch who's coming up after you.
8. If you find yourself on the deck you usually did something wrong or got greedy chasing somone too low. Remember the dense air on the deck will bleed all the E you once had. Don't dive after people too low.
9. Also i usually ignore my own tactics quite a bit and go down on the deck and fight anyway. Because, A) If you don't die you won't learn anything, so don't be afraid to die. When i do this i know i'll probably be killed anyway but it's good practice. And also B) it's just plain fun, learn how to fight at a disadvantage, it will help you. Screw your score, get in there, and go get some.
Anyway those are my P-47 tactics i use same one in 38's and 51's. Although i'm more apt to turn fight in a 38.
Now go get yourself some!
:aok
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I've been flying the P47D25 model for the last week. Last night was a good night for me. One 10 kill flight and one 6 kill flight.
If its a close fight I will take 50% fuel with a drop tank, 8 guns with max ammo, if its a sector over I will take 75%.
I'll climb to 11-12k unless the bogies have been coming in from a higher altitude. I like to fight down hill in the p47 and recover altitude when I can. Instead of being one of the 2 or 3 chasing a bogie, I will grab alt to catch his friend coming in.
SA is huge in the 47, I still need to work on that.
Fun plane to fly.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Thats why I fly nuthin but jugs! TOO big..TOO loud, burns absurd amount of gas..TOO many guns...it's got Amuurica written all over it:aok Kinda like airplane version of Harley:lol
that should be in someones signature lol<^^^^^^^^^^^
tonight i loaded up a p47n with two 75tanks and 50% fuel went hunting bombers climbed to 25k (cause they were reported to be that high)
well i never found those buffs but i did encounter a lone ki184 about 6k bellow me i choped throttle did a few slips and rolls to slow down and rolled over into him. he gave me a good fight for the first two passes, pinged me a few times inefectualy. finaly he decided to try to run and i just droped in right behind him and closed the distance. as soon as i got within 600 he started jinking and went for a split s i rolled 90 degres hit rudder to slew my nose down and lit him up. pulled straight and climbed out for home euphoric. jug is a killer plane but i wish i had been a little lighter or maybe in the d40 model.
id say this fight started at about 18k and ended at about 8k so yea i was right in the jugs wheelhouse most of the time.
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With all non-N models I'd suggest taking 100% internal and no DT. You'll burn off a decent wad of that climbing to alt.
Why this, instead of 50% & DT?
The aux tank. You take a hit in the fuselage and 9 times out of 10 you'll get a huge hole in your main fuel tank, and it will drain dry within 10 seconds. When I take off I manually select the main tank. RTB when you're down to aux only. If you take shot to your main, switch to aux and egress quickly.
It's saved my bacon so many times I do it as habit now.
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The only time I take all the ammo is if I'm on an attack run and will be strafing. I almost always run out of fuel before ammo. You save some weight from the reduction, which I find to make a big difference (a little snappier roll rate), and worth about 1.5" of manifold pressure in climb.
For fighter missions:
In the D11, I always take 100% fuel, sometimes even the drop tank. In the D-25 and D-40, almost always 100% but without the drop tank (carries a bit more fuel internal). In the N, almost always take 75% with no drops. I then burn the wing tanks off as soon as I lift, and know I'll have (what is 100% fuel in the D-25/40) full fuel in the main and aux.
But, the key is being able to be in the fight once you've only got 1/4 of a tank of fuel, and 600-800 rounds of caliber .50 left. The plane begins to get downright sporty as it approaches the 11,000 to 12,000 pound range. I've got no problems mixing it up with almost any aircraft once I get good and light--say with 5 minutes or so left on station time.
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personally i think the b-17 is kind of being dissed, they dont really call it all that good but the b-17s had more fighter kills than anyother american fighter combined in world war 2
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Originally posted by angelsandair
personally i think the b-17 is kind of being dissed, they dont really call it all that good but the b-17s had more fighter kills than anyother american fighter combined in world war 2
There is still great debate over exactly how many fighter kills the B-17 had. The only thing people can agree on is it was far less then what the B-17s reported. Not that that fact degrades those who fought and gunned in the FF. In the heat of combat? At those frozen altitudes? Gunners shooting at the same airplanes? There was no way to get an accurate count of enemy fighters downed.
But I think its safe to say the B-17s got the worst of it. In fact had long range escorts not been available we probably would have had to cancel daylight bombing over German Industrial targets. The average gunner on a 17 had about a 25% chance of living to complete his 25 missions so whats that tell you?
Dont get me wrong. It was a great airplane. But it was a bomber not a fighter killer and it got thumped pretty hard by the Luftwaffe.
Last night I got into a long range shoot out with a Hellcat while in B-26s. Never was the fight closer then 800 yrds, and most of the time 1,000. It was an interesting combat between 0.50 cal airplanes and really showed the longer range capabilities of the American 0.50 cal guns.
I kinda get a kick out of those who thinks they need cannon to shoot down Buffs. The P-47 is perfectly capable of shooting down any Buff in the game.
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P-47 knocks bombers down pretty hard and fast and can take a few stray rounds as well. Having said that it makes me sad to shoot at the planes that the jug historically protected. I hate that part of the game intensly.
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Originally posted by VonKost
P-47 knocks bombers down pretty hard and fast and can take a few stray rounds as well. Having said that it makes me sad to shoot at the planes that the jug historically protected. I hate that part of the game intensly.
I can respect that line of thought. But unless its a reenactment, at least to me, then its only a game. Tho I do actually have more fun shooting at Jap and German fighters while flying my Yank bombers.
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Originally posted by angelsandair
personally i think the b-17 is kind of being dissed, they dont really call it all that good but the b-17s had more fighter kills than anyother american fighter combined in world war 2
More claims maybe, but the claims out-stripped reality by an order of magnitude.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by VonKost
P-47 knocks bombers down pretty hard and fast and can take a few stray rounds as well. Having said that it makes me sad to shoot at the planes that the jug historically protected. I hate that part of the game intensly.
I definitely agree with you on that.
Yet another reason why we need more italian, jap and german bombers :t
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Originally posted by Yossarian
I definitely agree with you on that.
Yet another reason why we need more italian, jap and german bombers :t
No one will fly them. The Americans and British built the best bombers.
Your solution is to visit the AvA.
- oldman
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Originally posted by angelsandair
personally i think the b-17 is kind of being dissed, they dont really call it all that good but the b-17s had more fighter kills than anyother american fighter combined in world war 2
B-24 Liberater was practically equal to the B-17 in most aspects...
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I'm paraphrasing from "Great American Bombers of World War II".
On one mission in 1943, USAAC B-17s claimed 280 Luftwaffe fighters shot down. In actuality, the Luftwaffe only lost 24 fighters.
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The first plane i flew in aces high was a jug. i remember it like yesterday. icrashed on tkeoff. :D
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This thread makes me want to put my F4U-1A in the hangar and bring back my 'D-11 o' Doom' :D
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As well everyone knows I am a JUG fan. I have beat every airplane in the inventory except the 262. Not saying I havent lost to some great sticks. As long as I keep my speed above 250 sooner or later I will comeout the winner. I love to carry 1000 on a mission. Release on the base and go to hunting. I love the JUG. The trick is to learn its limitations and learn to fly within those.
JUGMAN
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Originally posted by P47Gra
trick is to learn its limitations and learn to fly within those.
JUGMAN
yupyupyup
Same as the trick with every other plane :aok