Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Shade_Empire09 on November 04, 2007, 04:26:27 PM
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Why do we only have 2 jets and 1 rocket fighter? And their both german...Not That I mind Germans but still we need more jets. And they did use the Sturmvogel A-2 and the He-162 in the last days.
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The Me 262 and the Ar234 were the first jet fighters and bombers it see action in WW2, and the Me163 is the only rocket plane to see combat. I would think that maybe one day they will add more jets but you have to understand that at that time germany was way more ahead of everyone else in that category.
There have been many many debates about the Meteor. From what Iv read there are a few rules that planes have to meet before they are able to be put into AH.
1. No prototypes
2. Has to be in squadren strength.
3. Has to have seen combat (shot some planes down).
Number three is where the debate is. The meteor was used to shoot V1s down, but from Iv read they never shot any planes down. Some say that V1s dont count others say they do.
I would love to see the A-2 becaus it would give us another perked bomber. Maybe when they remodel the Me262 they'll add it, you never know.
I dont know the specs on the 162 so I cant say anything about it, but Im sure someone else has some info on it.
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Originally posted by Shade_Empire09
we need more jets.
No.
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The Me-262A-2 was an utter failure as an attack plane in real life and it would also be in AH.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Shade_Empire09
Why do we only have 2 jets and 1 rocket fighter? And their both german
math i learned gooood
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Meteor before the 262-A2.
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There was only 1 He-162 kill and it was a tempest, they found out because the pilot was captured and they wanted to know what shot him down. The showed him the designs of many planes and he said it was a he-162...but the he-162 was shot down too, by a P-51D when he was nearing his base.
The Meteor no one really knows if it did anything else than V-1's but it would prove worthy in the korean war and in AH. The me-262 A-2 would've been as great as the stuka if it had come in earlier.
And I have another wishlist that I would like to present. Someone needs to make a nightfighter map and we could use a me-262 B-1 nightfighter, he-219, beaufighter Mk3 nightfighter, Ki-45 Toryu Japanese Nightfighter, a do-217 nightfighter, Ju-88 C-6 nightfighter, and maybe a a-20g/p-70 stopgap nightfighter skin. And a me-410 and p-61. I am a nightfighter type and that's what i like to do in Il-2 1946. :furious
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Don't mention Il2 in here, those guys tortured lwobbles by posting me410 modeling shots, and never including it in game.
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Originally posted by Shade_Empire09
Why do we only have 2 jets and 1 rocket fighter? And their both german...Not That I mind Germans but still we need more jets. And they did use the Sturmvogel A-2 and the He-162 in the last days.
So you complain about only having german jets, then ask for more german jets...
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Mig 3U before anything else.
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how about the volksyager it did fly it might be one mision but it served in ww 2 make that the last day of world war 2
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Originally posted by Shade_Empire09
The me-262 A-2 would've been as great as the stuka if it had come in earlier.
No it wouldn't have.
ack-ack
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Why must you insist on jets? IMHO the ar-234 262 or 163 do not improve gameplay the slightest bit.
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This is a ww2 combat simulator game (or does HT not like it being called a game :) ), so we need ww2 planes not jet fighters that were rarley, or never, used.
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Originally posted by Larry
but you have to understand that at that time germany was way more ahead of everyone else in that category.
you are very wrong there, the russians actually had a jet prgram 18 months before germany, they just wernt used becasue stalin's prejudice against planes/aircraft designers (true fact, stalin was scared to hell by planes, and i mean riding in them especially)
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The only russian jet close to wwII that i like is the mig-9fs but that's 1946 or 1947 so after war. I would like a Pe-3 bis heavy fighter, light bomber or even a il-153 m-62 just to fly around like a maniac, but a freakin newb would light you up like a roman candle in that thing. I don't know. I like german jets, but we do need morre russian planes or maybe even like finnish or romanian planes, and we need a beaufighter!!!!!!!! It was just an idea about the german jets. We need that B-29, P-39, and maybe a rufe or seahawk seaplane. Also a P-61 and me-410 for the nightfighter rivalry. Seen on dogfights episode nightfighters
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The meteor didn't really see combat due to an act of policy then any other reason. If i remember right it certainly did see action as a ground attack airplane. It didn't see air to air combat due to an act of policy by the British military.
It would be a fun perk aircraft and I think does deserve to be included. But we deserve the B-29 long before because the B-29 had a very large participation in the war. Far in excess of anything either the Meteor or 262 did.
AND! We only have one perk bomber.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
But we deserve the B-29 long before because the B-29 had a very large participation in the war. Far in excess of anything either the Meteor or 262 did.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Larry
:rofl
Yeah I know. I shouldnt have mentioned the "B" word.
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One thing on this list I would like to see is the Me-262-A2, for the sake of R4M air to air rockets.
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Other planes more common than the 262A2 had them, IIRC. Either the 190D9 or F8, maybe the A8 or A9 too.
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Originally posted by moot
Other planes more common than the 262A2 had them, IIRC. Either the 190D9 or F8, maybe the A8 or A9 too.
Dont think the 262A1 did, though. Or at least, Ive never heard of the R4M mentioned with the 262A1.
Edit: from Wiki: "Only a small number of aircraft were fitted with the R4M, mostly Messerschmitt Me 262s and the ground attack version of the Fw 190s, which mounted them on small wooden racks under the wings."
My guess is that the PB1 rockets we have on the 190F8 are specialized R4M's.
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http://www.stormbirds.net/tech_r4m_rocket.htm
"They could be let off 1,100 meters away from the target - and from this range continued until they represented a field of fire of over 30m x 14m. This meant that by releasing all his rockets at once against a close formation of bombers a pilot couldn't miss!"
Johannes Steinhoff
Sounds like you'd just salvo off all 24 of them at a formation from a safe distance, then get out of there before the escorts bounce you.
Edit:
I believe the Me262A-1a or A-1b was the one fitted with the rockets. Anyway, I think they just mounted the wooden racks on the wings of the standard fighter version of the 262.
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Originally posted by Motherland
...Edit: from Wiki: "Only a small number of aircraft were fitted with the R4M, mostly Messerschmitt Me 262s and the ground attack version of the Fw 190s, which mounted them on small wooden racks under the wings."
My guess is that the PB1 rockets we have on the 190F8 are specialized R4M's.
Yep R4M's with a Panzerschreck warhead. They can 1 shot kill a tiger in game :)
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Originally posted by Motherland
One thing on this list I would like to see is the Me-262-A2, for the sake of R4M air to air rockets.
Me-262A-2a Sturmvogel was the "Jabo" variant with two stores pylons under the forward fuselage for two 250 kilogram (550 pound) general-purpose or cluster bombs, and only had the upper pair of MK-108 30 millimeter cannon. It didn't carry any A2A rockets.
ack-ack
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I would kill for an he-162... it would have to be perked higher than 262 though... a bit faster.
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My grandfather trained in the b-17g and weeks after that he and his buds got a b-29 the *black magic*, they had 45 missions on the plane and flew the day the enola gay dropped the atomic bomb. He lives about an hour from me I love to talk to him...but not when he beats us in poker and wins our money, old people know all the good tricks. I was talking to his tail gunner one day and he told me he shot down a ki-45, J2m3, a A6m5 zero, and a ki-102 randy. Most of his guys are still alive. I so want that B-29 but it needs a big perk price, so newbs dont try to pwn us veterans
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Originally posted by Larry
Number three is where the debate is. The meteor was used to shoot V1s down, but from Iv read they never shot any planes down. Some say that V1s dont count others say they do.
Meteors destroyed 46 confirmed enemy aircraft in Germany in 1944 - albeit via ground attack.
They were there, they did damage - and were shot at via German flak & allied aircraft (looked too much like a 262 for some people to tell the difference).
They were out looking to tangle with 262's - only they came so late that the Luftwaffe already had it's back broken.
IMHO they more than qualify for entry in AH. Besides, I would prefer a "262" style jet with 4x20mm cannons - much better ballistics in terms of hitting targets. 16 wing mounted rockets would also be nice, albeit you'd be crazy to ground attack in AH with such costly beast.
Shamroc
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From what Iv read the meteor never shot down an eveny aircraft in WW2. I really dont think killing planes on the ground would count.
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Originally posted by Larry
From what Iv read the meteor never shot down an eveny aircraft in WW2. I really dont think killing planes on the ground would count.
C-47 never shot down any planes either.
Combat is combat. Meteors saw cambat, that is beyond question. So far as I know, AH does not have an air-to-air combat lithmus test, just a combat lithmus test, series production lithmus test and a squadron service lithmus test. Meteor Mk III passes all of them. One could argue fairly effectively that the Ta152 fails the squadron service test.
Whether they should be added to AH is another question entirely, as in, do we need more jets, really?
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Originally posted by Karnak
C-47 never shot down any planes either.
Combat is combat. Meteors saw cambat, that is beyond question. So far as I know, AH does not have an air-to-air combat lithmus test, just a combat lithmus test, series production lithmus test and a squadron service lithmus test. Meteor Mk III passes all of them. One could argue fairly effectively that the Ta152 fails the squadron service test.
Whether they should be added to AH is another question entirely, as in, do we need more jets, really?
True, the C-47 never saw combat. BUT, it was the allied transport workhorse. Quite possibly one of the most important aircraft of the war. It supported the liberation of Europe. It played an essential role in the extermination of the Third Reich.
Whereas, the Meteor destroyed a couple unmanned planes and some rockets that may have never hit anything in the first place.
Not a very fair comparison, Id say.
Though, Id have to agree with you on one essential point: do we NEED anymore jets? No. No Meteor, no Volksjaeger, no P80, no obscure Russian jet. We need a Ju-52 and a Ju-87G before we get any of that.
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Meteors did combat sweeps and ground strikes over occupied Europe in 1945. Don't downplay the danger in that, ground attacks were the most dangerous jobs Allied fighters did. For example, look at Closterman's leading a Tempest squad on an attack that only he and one other Tempest made it out the other side.
As I said, that the Meteor saw combat in WWII is beyond dispute.
Whether we need another jet fighter in AH is not beyond dispute.
Personally, I don't think we do need another.
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Originally posted by Motherland
True, the C-47 never saw combat.
You don't call flying through murderous acks to drop paratroopers behind enemy lines before the beach landings of D-Day combat?
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You don't call flying through murderous acks to drop paratroopers behind enemy lines before the beach landings of D-Day combat?
ack-ack
True. I had thought about that. It depends on your definition of 'seeing combat'. If 'seeing combat' is being in a dangerous situation, with enemy combatants firing upon you, etc. etc., then yes, it did. But what I was getting more at (to touch more upon new fighters/other additions) was engaging the enemy to kill him, not really dropping other people off to fight the enemy.
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Were you in a german infantryman's boots, you wouldn't consider a C47 dropping combat troops on their way to gut you as an act of war?
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Originally posted by moot
Were you in a german infantryman's boots, you wouldn't consider a C47 dropping combat troops on their way to gut you as an act of war?
Did I ever say it wasnt an act of war? I said it wasnt actively engaging in combat.
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Originally posted by Shade_Empire09
Why do we only have 2 jets and 1 rocket fighter? And their both german...Not That I mind Germans but still we need more jets. And they did use the Sturmvogel A-2 and the He-162 in the last days.
LOL we have 2 jets and 1 rocket and all 3 are german 2+1=3.
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You don't think dropping the most lethal ordnance in the war is active engagement in the war?
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Was the meteor that great of an upgrade anyways? IIRC it had limited spped due to control surface problems. The book I have says it had a top speed of 415mph at 10,000ft. That is for the mk.III built in 1945. We have many prop planes that are faster.
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the c 47 did get shot at and had a zero unload into it and then crash into it there is a photo of it it was a lot more risiliant than it is in this game which one or two round from a canons will kill it i would like to put the photo in the picture but i cant scan it and i dont get how to put photos in the forums
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Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
Was the meteor that great of an upgrade anyways? IIRC it had limited spped due to control surface problems. The book I have says it had a top speed of 415mph at 10,000ft. That is for the mk.III built in 1945. We have many prop planes that are faster.
Sounds like the Mk I. The Mk III did 490mph. The post war Mk IV was the fastest aircraft in the world when it was introduced at over 600mph.
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Originally posted by Motherland
True. I had thought about that. It depends on your definition of 'seeing combat'. If 'seeing combat' is being in a dangerous situation, with enemy combatants firing upon you, etc. etc., then yes, it did. But what I was getting more at (to touch more upon new fighters/other additions) was engaging the enemy to kill him, not really dropping other people off to fight the enemy.
Funny I was just thinking about how the LAST DOGFIGHT in WWII Europe was between a Piper Cub (Grasshopper) and a Storch (Piper Cup victory via pistol for the win)
Just cracks me up that the LAST ONE was this matchup - like it's almost comical...
By the "they must have seen air-to-air combat" criterion, we should have these before a Meteor :)
Do we really need more jets ? The real question should be "do we really need ANY more planes". In reality - we don't. We have a pretty complete planeset that covers all the bases - anything else is really just icing on the cake.
Comes down to personal preference.
I'd like to see a Meteor... Hell I'd like to see A LOT of planes... But in the Jets Category, I'd like to see a Meteor next.
Shamroc
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Originally posted by Motherland
Whereas, the Meteor destroyed a couple unmanned planes and some rockets that may have never hit anything in the first place.
For the record - 46 "unmanned planes" and 14 V1's (which were pulse jet and not rocket powered).
The Meteor also went on to serve until the 1970s.
Probably one of the most significant, yet forgotten, fighters of all time.
Shamroc.
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Shamroc,
We have massive gaps in the Russian and Japanese sets still.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Shamroc,
We have massive gaps in the Russian and Japanese sets still.
I agree.
My point was that we have a good diversity of energy and turn fighters. We're not lacking in anything is what I really mean.
Shamroc
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Originally posted by shamroc
I agree.
My point was that we have a good diversity of energy and turn fighters. We're not lacking in anything is what I really mean.
Shamroc
No we don't. Point out one bipe. ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
No we don't. Point out one bipe. ;)
Sure... but wassa bipe ?
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Originally posted by splitatom
the c 47 did get shot at and had a zero unload into it and then crash into it there is a photo of it it was a lot more risiliant than it is in this game which one or two round from a canons will kill it i would like to put the photo in the picture but i cant scan it and i dont get how to put photos in the forums
The Starchild...
Periods (.) are your friends. Use them liberally. Use them together. Use them in peace.
(http://www.nso.lt/stories/img/starchild.jpg)
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Originally posted by shamroc
Sure... but wassa bipe ?
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/aces.htm
:D
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
It would be a fun perk aircraft and I think does deserve to be included. But we deserve the B-29 long before because the B-29 had a very large participation in the war. Far in excess of anything either the Meteor or 262 did.
AND! We only have one perk bomber.
NOOK !!! 11111
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IN ONE INSTACE i READ ABOUT HOW A PILOT OF A C-47 SHOT DOWN A ZERO AND OSCAR from his cockpit with a browning .30 cal assault rifle.
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One thing I want is an Ki-43 oscar Kai the faster version, it rallied against the flying tigers and fought until the end of the war. It even was pitted against Mustangs, but did horribly against P-38's and 47's. And maybe a Ki-27 Ostu for early war arenas w' a finnish Fokker XXII and I WANT A GLADIATOR!!!!!!Just to fly for fun or recon.
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Originally posted by Shade_Empire09
Why do we only have 2 jets and 1 rocket fighter? And their both german...Not That I mind Germans but still we need more jets. And they did use the Sturmvogel A-2 and the He-162 in the last days.
I would LOVE to see the Sturmvogel... In the gunsites of an Ostie or M16. My vehicle perks would NEVER be the same again!!!!
There is a reason it was a failure in WW2, it's the same reason no sane players uses a 262/163/234 as a ground attack aircraft in the MAs.
They get shot down with surprising regularity!
my 2 phennig
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Shade_Empire09
IN ONE INSTACE i READ ABOUT HOW A PILOT OF A C-47 SHOT DOWN A ZERO AND OSCAR from his cockpit with a browning .30 cal assault rifle.
Link or source of said (dubious) claim?
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Originally posted by Shade_Empire09
from his cockpit with a browning .30 cal assault rifle.
Contradiction.
An assault rifle fires a lightened rifle round. 30/06 is a standard rifle round. So the rifle you are describing is a battle rifle, assuming it was magazine-fed.
Your claims are looking unlikely...