Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: waystin2 on November 05, 2007, 04:23:41 PM
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I got my butt handed to me three times in short order in the DA last night. I was flying my trusty Mark VIII and I spotted the F6F5 making his move towards me so I thought let's do this! He turned, looped and rolled at times better than the Spit! It freaked me out. Anyway, my questions are for my use in the attack mode in the MA not the DA.
1)Is there a magic button to turn the F6 into Spit after I have dropped my bombs so I can dogfight?:lol
2)At what speed can you deploy the flaps in the F6 for aiding in turns?
3)Can you deploy the gear in the F6 aid in turns in a pinch, and if yes, what speed?
4)How much flap would you use after dropping ordnance, then hanging around to attack enemy cons? (Usually it's a mini low level furball or a vulch fest. Get slow and low in an F6 and you can become someone's lunch! At least I thought until last night in the DA.)
5)To what extent is the superior flying I saw last night in the DA, applicable in the craziness of the MA in full swing?
All help and Suggestions are appreciated! See you up there!
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I've out-turned Spits many times in an F6F.
Dropping gear won't help you. It will actually hurt.
If you can keep it in the 175-225 mph range your best off.
The first notch of flaps deploy close to 250 mph and the second over 200. Use them spareingly to improve instantaneous turn rate at critical moments or to get over the top if you've gotten (too) slow, then pull them back in to maintain E. You should'nt need more than 2 notches in normal situations. If you've gotten WAY too slow you might try 3 but you're probably already in trouble.
Also, while the Spits handle flat turns really well, the F6F favors wing-over reversals (one of the best at this along with the F4F and the FM2) which can lead to nice angular gains and are difficult for a Spit to follow.
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Originally posted by waystin2
1)Is there a magic button to turn the F6 into Spit after I have dropped my bombs so I can dogfight?:lol
It's called, "lots of practice..." ;) Like the F4Us, the F6F can give most of the Spitfires more than they expect and often more than they can handle.
2)At what speed can you deploy the flaps in the F6 for aiding in turns?
This depends upon circumstance. There's no set rule.
3)Can you deploy the gear in the F6 aid in turns in a pinch, and if yes, what speed?
Don't bother. Counter productive.
4)How much flap would you use after dropping ordnance, then hanging around to attack enemy cons? (Usually it's a mini low level furball or a vulch fest. Get slow and low in an F6 and you can become someone's lunch! At least I thought until last night in the DA.)
Why would you fly around with flaps down? You don't use them unless you need to. As to when that occurs, that comes with experience.
5)To what extent is the superior flying I saw last night in the DA, applicable in the craziness of the MA in full swing?
If you run up against a good Hellcat stick in the MA, odds are not in your favor to survive should you engage.
My regards,
Widewing
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Nothing more to say after Widewing ... but I have a decent amount of hours in an F6F and as Widewing said ... after a fair amount of seat time ... you can make that plane dance with correct use of the throttle, rudder, and flaps.
Best F6F pilot out there (since Drex and Mathman retired) is my squaddie Wadke ... I thought I knew how to handle an F6F ... until I fought him ... he is pure magic in an F6F.
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F4U's, F6F's, P-40's and TBM's are all planes that seem to turn very well and you wouldn’t expect it. If the pilots knows what he is doing it's not unlikely for me to have to drop my flaps in my Zero to keep up.
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One additional thing, the F6F (or most American rides) will always do everything better (except maybe climb) at high speeds. The faster the fight is, the more comfortable the F6F will be (gotta love its dive ability btw, as stable as a JU87 IMHO:aok). You try fighting with any heavy fighter at over 300mph in a spit and you've just handed them the advantage. I regularly out turn zekes (beautiful aircraft IMHO) in my P38, usually after a downhill stretch when we both at 300+. Near 300 the Zeke begins to lock up.
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Originally posted by Hazard69
One additional thing, the F6F (or most American rides) will always do everything better (except maybe climb) at high speeds. The faster the fight is, the more comfortable the F6F will be (gotta love its dive ability btw, as stable as a JU87 IMHO:aok). You try fighting with any heavy fighter at over 300mph in a spit and you've just handed them the advantage. I regularly out turn zekes (beautiful aircraft IMHO) in my P38, usually after a downhill stretch when we both at 300+. Near 300 the Zeke begins to lock up.
Yep the american planes will feel fine even at 400+ usually as they are speed demons, most of them anyways. And thats why a Zeke shouldn't dive, if you dive I climb, works out fine for me.
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Originally posted by waystin2
I got my butt handed to me three times in short order in the DA last night. I was flying my trusty Mark VIII and I spotted the F6F5 making his move towards me so I thought let's do this! He turned, looped and rolled at times better than the Spit! It freaked me out. Anyway, my questions are for my use in the attack mode in the MA not the DA.
1)Is there a magic button to turn the F6 into Spit after I have dropped my bombs so I can dogfight?:lol
2)At what speed can you deploy the flaps in the F6 for aiding in turns?
3)Can you deploy the gear in the F6 aid in turns in a pinch, and if yes, what speed?
4)How much flap would you use after dropping ordnance, then hanging around to attack enemy cons? (Usually it's a mini low level furball or a vulch fest. Get slow and low in an F6 and you can become someone's lunch! At least I thought until last night in the DA.)
5)To what extent is the superior flying I saw last night in the DA, applicable in the craziness of the MA in full swing?
All help and Suggestions are appreciated! See you up there!
It's not so much the flaps as the cupholder;)
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Originally posted by waystin2
I got my butt handed to me three times in short order in the DA last night. I was flying my trusty Mark VIII and I spotted the F6F5 making his move towards me so I thought let's do this! He turned, looped and rolled at times better than the Spit! It freaked me out. Anyway, my questions are for my use in the attack mode in the MA not the DA.
1)Is there a magic button to turn the F6 into Spit after I have dropped my bombs so I can dogfight?:lol
2)At what speed can you deploy the flaps in the F6 for aiding in turns?
3)Can you deploy the gear in the F6 aid in turns in a pinch, and if yes, what speed?
4)How much flap would you use after dropping ordnance, then hanging around to attack enemy cons? (Usually it's a mini low level furball or a vulch fest. Get slow and low in an F6 and you can become someone's lunch! At least I thought until last night in the DA.)
5)To what extent is the superior flying I saw last night in the DA, applicable in the craziness of the MA in full swing?
All help and Suggestions are appreciated! See you up there!
You got beat because you fought the Hellcat's fight. I'm willing to bet the fight was either in the high end of the speed scale or a mix between high speed and low speed but rarely in the medium speed range. If it the fight was in the medium speed range, the Spitfire would have been all over the Hellcat.
So the lesson is, if you are going to get into a turn fight while flying a Spitfire (and this goes for any model with the exception of maybe the XIV) keep the fight in the medium speed range. At higher speeds (above 300+mph IAS) planes like the P-38 and Hellcat will be able to get an angle. At low speeds (150mph IAS and slower) planes like the P-38 will also be able to work an angle due to the better slow/stall speed handling of the Lightning, the Hellcat should also be able to do the same.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You got beat because you fought the Hellcat's fight. I'm willing to bet the fight was either in the high end of the speed scale or a mix between high speed and low speed but rarely in the medium speed range. If it the fight was in the medium speed range, the Spitfire would have been all over the Hellcat.
So the lesson is, if you are going to get into a turn fight while flying a Spitfire (and this goes for any model with the exception of maybe the XIV) keep the fight in the medium speed range. At higher speeds (above 300+mph IAS) planes like the P-38 and Hellcat will be able to get an angle. At low speeds (150mph IAS and slower) planes like the P-38 will also be able to work an angle due to the better slow/stall speed handling of the Lightning, the Hellcat should also be able to do the same.
ack-ack
shhhh... it's the cupholder!:p
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
shhhh... it's the cupholder!:p
Salute FBPLMMR! Would you be able spare a few moments in the TA sometime?
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yes i love the hell cat im not good in it but its surprising to me what a contender it can be. i found out a bout f4us when i took up the d hog and chog a couple of times i was in the c and like wow this thing really rolls dives and turns beautifuly.
i used to love spits but im starting to love heavy american steel lol
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I did the same, only use the spits when I'm defending a base by myself or flying into an area were i've been encountering nothing but spits.
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one of these days in need to get widewing in the training area,, i want to become his padawon learner... He knows the ways of the F4U Force and I must learn it.. Teach me master!!!
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Originally posted by waystin2
Salute FBPLMMR! Would you be able spare a few moments in the TA sometime?
waystin2
I'd be happy too.
It wouldn't take to long to show you everything I know:lol
You may be better served; however, by seeking out any of the multitudes of pilots that are better than I am.
Slapshot for instance constantly causes me to stall/spin when fighting in blue planes.
I need to go to the TA also .. I intend to ask Widewing for help on my merges ETC
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F6f is a great plane. I think the niki is about the best match up for the hellcat.
For you spit bashers in the group the f6f will be out classed by the spit 5,8,9 and 16. This fight come down to the pilot but its braking point is with the spit.
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true i think spits have killed me more than any other plane cause thats about all i ever see lol. uber spits galore lol
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Don't think that a just because someone is in a spit means that he will win the fight. The f6 can kill just as fast if you put some time into learning is tendencies.
The flaps/gear idea really is interesting but if you ask me if it works i would say no. When i see the gear come down in any plane that person has just showed me his cards. Their is a small amount of time when you first engage a enemy that you Gamble by playing the dump E or hold E. When you see the gear come down its a large red flag.
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Unlike in the F4u, the gear comes down at way too low speed to be of any use (about 180 mph iirc).
Spit8/16 have a huge advantage over the F6F in a knife fight and it is not in the turning department.