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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 11:15:57 AM

Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 11:15:57 AM
Oh what a day... let me sent the stage...

My 18 yo daughter got back Tuesday morning after a week long trip with her boyfriend to his home in McAllen (meet his mother, a couple of day trips to Mexico and the coast, a little sight seeing.)  Yesterday at 3pm boyfriend leaves to go back home in McAllen.   6 oclock this morning we wake to her crying... it seems Kyle left at 3pm and hadnt call yet to say he was home.  She called his mother and she hadnt seen him either.  His cell phone wasnt working because he dropped it in the sand at the beach a few days ago.  She's worried, crying... and I'm trying to think of something to say that will make it better, after a few minutes I decide just to let mom handle it....

Finally she gets a call from Kyle's mom,  apparently on his way home he got stopped for speeding in San Marcus (about 30 miles from my house).  During the stop they searched his car and for what ever reason he had a pair of brass knuckles in his car.... so he's been in jail all night (and still in jail).  They wouldnt let him make a phone call to a cell phone number and he couldnt remember our house number, his mom only has a cell phone too.  so he was pretty much SOL...until his mom called all the counties between McAllen and here to track him down...

so now he has to wait till about 12 to see a judge, bail is $2000, with a $200 deposit, his mom (with my daughter's help) got a hold of a bail bond company.   Next she's needs to get a lawyer because one of the lawyers my wife works with says it was probably an illegal search, his car is impounded and gonna cost about $300-400 to get out... what a mess...
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 08, 2007, 11:24:52 AM
I find it odd how illegal brass knuckles are.


But then again, socialists are just trying to scare us with scary weapons.  Like, take the switchblade for example.  Every switchblade I've seen or own is way more flimsy then any knife I own.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: storch on November 08, 2007, 11:31:24 AM
sadly this is the result of allowing the feds to "protect" you from terrorists.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 11:32:42 AM
My guess is they didnt have probable cause for the search, they pulled him over and saw all the tatooes and piercings and seeing his licence and finding out he was from McAllen figured he might be transporting drugs or something (McAllen is right near the mexican border and I hear that drug trafficers run money and drugs up through San Antonio and Austin on IH35)

for what ever reason he happens to have brass knuckles in the car... jackpot... some days it just doesnt pay to get out of bed...
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Shuffler on November 08, 2007, 12:06:01 PM
Brass knucks don't hit people... people hit people....
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: john9001 on November 08, 2007, 12:17:39 PM
your papers are not in order, you will come with us to gestapo headquarters.


america has turned into a black and white B movie from the fifties.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: texasmom on November 08, 2007, 12:19:02 PM
I didn't realize that brass knuckles were illegal. Hope that works out okay for him.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 08, 2007, 12:33:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
My guess is they didnt have probable cause for the search, they pulled him over and saw all the tatooes and piercings and seeing his licence and finding out he was from McAllen figured he might be transporting drugs or something (McAllen is right near the mexican border and I hear that drug trafficers run money and drugs up through San Antonio and Austin on IH35)

for what ever reason he happens to have brass knuckles in the car... jackpot... some days it just doesnt pay to get out of bed...


The trick is, did he give permission for the search?  Or possibly, attempt to deny that they could search?
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 01:06:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
The trick is, did he give permission for the search?  Or possibly, attempt to deny that they could search?

That's our question too, unfortunatly I can't ask that until he gets out, which hopefully is within the next hour or so.  My daughter and son are down there now waiting to pick him up.  we all suspect he consented to a search because he's pretty quiet and an easy going guy, probably not even aware of his rights.  My daughter says because he lives in McAllen he's used to the border patrol pulling people over all the time and searching for illegals.  He probably didnt even know brass knuckles were illegal, neither did I, but I dont have a need for them so I wouldnt have checked.

according to a couple of people I've spoke with (former cop from Georgia and a lawyer) even if they ask for permission to search and you give concent they still had to have probable cause to request the search in the first place... just depends on the circumstances...
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 08, 2007, 01:13:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
I didn't realize that brass knuckles were illegal. Hope that works out okay for him.


Brass knuckles are illegal in most, if not all, states.  These aren't recent laws, the law in California has been on the books for many, many years.



ack-ack
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 08, 2007, 01:18:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
according to a couple of people I've spoke with (former cop from Georgia and a lawyer) even if they ask for permission to search and you give concent they still had to have probable cause to request the search in the first place... just depends on the circumstances...


That's the part I'm unsure about.  Do you have to deny consent to the search?  Or can the search get thrown out completely if they had no Probable Cause, if contested in court?
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: indy007 on November 08, 2007, 01:19:28 PM
I think a more important question is why you let your daughter date somebody that feels the need to drive around with brass knuckles? :)
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Dichotomy on November 08, 2007, 01:24:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
That's our question too, unfortunatly I can't ask that until he gets out, which hopefully is within the next hour or so.  My daughter and son are down there now waiting to pick him up.  we all suspect he consented to a search because he's pretty quiet and an easy going guy, probably not even aware of his rights.  My daughter says because he lives in McAllen he's used to the border patrol pulling people over all the time and searching for illegals.  He probably didnt even know brass knuckles were illegal, neither did I, but I dont have a need for them so I wouldnt have checked.

according to a couple of people I've spoke with (former cop from Georgia and a lawyer) even if they ask for permission to search and you give concent they still had to have probable cause to request the search in the first place... just depends on the circumstances...


Yes but the officer decides what is probably cause.  Sounds to me like he ran into some of the finer specimens we have running around these days.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 01:24:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
That's the part I'm unsure about.  Do you have to deny consent to the search?  Or can the search get thrown out completely if they had no Probable Cause, if contested in court?

dont know for sure.  The way I hear from my daughter, in McAllen the border patrol pulls you over, they request to search your vehicle, you consent, they open the truck, no illegals, good by you're on your way.  

Dont give consent and they detain you while they get a search warrent, so you set on the side of the road waiting... so everybody just consents to the search and get it over with... now that may not be accuracte because I'm getting that information 3rd hand... so dont quote me on it, I can't prove it personally...
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: texasmom on November 08, 2007, 02:01:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Brass knuckles are illegal in most, if not all, states.  These aren't recent laws, the law in California has been on the books for many, many years.
ack-ack

I didn't realize that at all.  Heck, I don't think I've ever even seen brass knuckles except in movies/TV.  Didn't think people actually ever used those to tell you the truth.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 08, 2007, 02:28:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
dont know for sure.  The way I hear from my daughter, in McAllen the border patrol pulls you over, they request to search your vehicle, you consent, they open the truck, no illegals, good by you're on your way.  

Dont give consent and they detain you while they get a search warrent, so you set on the side of the road waiting... so everybody just consents to the search and get it over with... now that may not be accuracte because I'm getting that information 3rd hand... so dont quote me on it, I can't prove it personally...


But even then, I think you would need probable cause to obtain the warrant.  You just can't ask for a warrant whenever you feel like it.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Curval on November 08, 2007, 02:37:12 PM
So...brass knuckles are BANNED in the US?

LOL!

That is funny.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: REP0MAN on November 08, 2007, 02:44:54 PM
I spent 5 years as a Police Officer in Oklahoma. I can only contribute based on Oklahoma Law.

The Probable Cause to stop was, as Airscrew said, speeding. Once the traffic stop was complete, the officer more than likely asked if the young man had anything illegal in the vehicle. This could have been triggered by several key indicators like nervousness, failure to make or maintain eye contact while being spoken to or, like Airscrew put it, they saw where he was from and had a sense of suspicion due to an obvious drug trafficking problem on that particular road. I say obvious because Airscrew knows about it. (Unless, he's in on it :)) Once the officer suspected and listened to his hunch, he most likely asked for permission to search. Here is the "inside" information on this question and why cops ask it. If I ask you, "Do you have anything Illegal in your vehicle that I should know about?", your involuntary first response if you truly don't is, "No". Now, if I ask that question and you say, "Not that I know of" or similar, other than "No", then I will be asking for consent to search your vehicle. You bet, 100%, that this kid could have denied permission to search. My opinion is that this kid either didn't know the contraband was there or knew it was there but didn't think it was illegal. He probably gave a trigger response that cops are trained to listen for or gave a nervous sign and thats when they asked for consent.

I'm with the majority here when I say, "Brass Knuckles?, Who cares?". I don't understand why the kid got locked up for that other than Barney Fife needed something to kill his shift with. But I don't think the Probable Cause debate and subsequent call for attorneys and such is necessary until all the facts are in. :) Some of you need to take of the Tin-Foil hats and let your brain breathe.

Hope it turns out okay Airscrew. Glad the boy is okay.

:aok
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Curval on November 08, 2007, 03:00:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
So...brass knuckles are BANNED in the US?

LOL!

That is funny.


Airscrew,

Just to be clear, I'm in no way making light of your daughter's boyfriend's situation.  It doesn't seem right to me.

No disrespect intended by my post above.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: john9001 on November 08, 2007, 03:04:24 PM
"protect and serve" is just something they put on the side of the cars.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 03:17:20 PM
Well the convict is on his way to my house in custody of my daughter... he has to wait for his mom to come up and get the car out of impound..

I'll find out tonight how everything played out, but I suspect its going to be close to what Repo said... I can believe the nervous part, the kid can look nervous if you dont know him...

Quote
suspicion due to an obvious drug trafficking problem on that particular road.

I'm not all up on the drug traffic in the area but I have a couple of friends that are current and former Austin PD and Bastrop County Sheriff dept... from what I understand the route is basically up from Mexico to IH-35 and they go north to Dallas or east to Houston.  I think they said DPS primarly patrols Hwy 21, 290, 71, and IH35 to look for suspect vehicles for drugs and cash

Quote
I don't understand why the kid got locked up for that other than Barney Fife needed something to kill his shift with.

One of the guys here at work used to live in San Marcos, he said one night they had a party at his apartment, they got a little loud and someone called the cops.  Cops show up, knocked on the door,  they asked him to step outside so they could talk to him and then they arrested him for public intoxication...true? maybe, maybe not...

As far as lawyers go, it was suggested he get one as soon as possible before he finds himself in a bad deal...

Curval, no worries, I get it... ;)  I cant wait to get home so I can pick on him myself...
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Gunslinger on November 08, 2007, 03:17:23 PM
I'm with the crowed here that says the boy probably gave consent.

I've been asked that many times when I get pulled over.

Officer:  "Do you have anything illegal in your car"?
Me:  "NOPE"!
Officer:  "Do you mind if I search your vehicle"?
Me:  "YES"!
Officer:  "Why not, what are you hiding"?
Me:  "I'm not hiding anything, in fact quite the opposite, I'm trying to make it known that I know my rights"
Officer:  "I can get a warrent"
Me:  "Based on what....that's what I though...write the ticket and I'll make sure I get that head light fixed"
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 08, 2007, 03:38:49 PM
I recall a couple of years ago a case the Supreme Court was going to hear.  It was about an individual that was stopped for a traffic violation and after he signed and was handed the ticket, he left.  He was stopped again and arrested because he left before the officer was able to ask for consent to search his car.  The individual's argument was that since the traffic stop was completed when he signed and was handed the ticket, he didn't have any legal reason to stay at the scene and shouldn't have been stopped again and arrested since there was no probable cause to stop him a 2nd time.  I just don't recall if the Supreme Court ruled in his favor.


ack-ack
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 03:51:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I recall a couple of years ago a case the Supreme Court was going to hear.  It was about an individual that was stopped for a traffic violation and after he signed and was handed the ticket, he left.  He was stopped again and arrested because he left before the officer was able to ask for consent to search his car.  The individual's argument was that since the traffic stop was completed when he signed and was handed the ticket, he didn't have any legal reason to stay at the scene and shouldn't have been stopped again and arrested since there was no probable cause to stop him a 2nd time.  I just don't recall if the Supreme Court ruled in his favor.


ack-ack

I found this

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E0DF1739F932A25755C0A960958260

its from Jun 1996 though

The Supreme Court ruled today that even if the police use a minor traffic violation as a pretext for stopping a car to look for drugs, an arrest for any drugs they find is still valid as long as the traffic stop itself was supported by probable cause.

In a unanimous opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia, the Court upheld the convictions of two District of Columbia men for drug possession after they were stopped by plainclothes officers on a drug patrol in an unmarked car, for failing to signal while making a turn. Looking through the driver's window, one officer saw two bags of crack cocaine in the passenger's hands.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Ripsnort on November 08, 2007, 04:01:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
sadly this is the result of allowing the feds to "protect" you from terrorists.


Ahh christ storch....sometimes your brilliance shows through like mud on a sheet.

Yep. some states they consider it a felony to possess them. If you've ever seen someones dental work after being hit with brass knuckles you'd know why.  They are treated as a deadly weapon and have been since the gangsters in the 1930 era.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 04:05:57 PM
some more on traffic stops

http://ofcolson.wordpress.com/2007/08/21/pretextual-conduct-by-police/
Title: illegal = illegal
Post by: Eagler on November 08, 2007, 05:03:52 PM
like indy stated, my question would be why did he have them in his car?

as Rip stated, there is a reason they are illegal - let someone who knows how to use them give you a little poke on the jaw

sounds like your daughter should throw that one back in and cast again ...
Title: Re: illegal = illegal
Post by: john9001 on November 08, 2007, 05:08:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
like indy stated, my question would be why did he have them in his car?



maybe he was interested in self defense. You know, like when your being robbed and the cops are all busy writing traffic tickets.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: VOR on November 08, 2007, 05:10:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
So...brass knuckles are BANNED in the US?

LOL!

That is funny.


Stupid, isn't it?
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: 68Wooley on November 08, 2007, 05:23:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ahh christ storch....sometimes your brilliance shows through like mud on a sheet.

Yep. some states they consider it a felony to possess them. If you've ever seen someones dental work after being hit with brass knuckles you'd know why.  They are treated as a deadly weapon and have been since the gangsters in the 1930 era.


So, just to be clear here:

Its LEGAL for me to own an assault rifle, but its ILLEGAL to own knuckle dusters.

Sometimes I doubt I'll ever truly understand the US.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: VOR on November 08, 2007, 05:25:32 PM
An aluminum baseball bat is also legal and does wonders on dental work. Batons on the other hand...teh evil.



It's what happens when humans write the laws. Skynet for president!
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Slash27 on November 08, 2007, 05:37:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
An aluminum baseball bat is also legal and does wonders on dental work. Batons on the other hand...teh evil.



It's what happens when humans write the laws. Skynet for president!


That aluminum baseball bat is a gray area btw.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: DREDIOCK on November 08, 2007, 05:39:40 PM
Arrested. 2K bail and car impounded?

Somehow I have a feeling more then just a pair of brass knuckles were found.
Betcha he came back from old Mexico with something he didnt go down there with.

Thinking is. I can understqand being arrested for the knuckles. Either the cop was a rookie or just felt like being a deuch that particular night.
ORR the kid was being a smartarse.

But 2K bail and car impounded seems exessive for the charge.

Sounds more like something that would come from a posession charge to me
Title: Re: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Holden McGroin on November 08, 2007, 06:05:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
Finally she gets a call from Kyle's mom,  apparently on his way home he got stopped...


Kyle's mom's a b***h, she's a big fat b***h, she's the biggest b***h in the whole damn world...

(http://spsource.net/gallery/images/grabpics/cartman/cartman74.gif)
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: crockett on November 08, 2007, 06:06:34 PM
That's pretty crazy stuff just for brass knuckles of all things. I never knew they were illegal. I mean it's not like he's carrying a machine gun or anything.

Assuming the kid didn't have any serious priors the cop should have just taken the brass knuckles and let the kid off with a warning. It's no wonder so many people don't like the cops these days, far too many of them are on the power trip.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: RedTop on November 08, 2007, 06:19:56 PM
He got stopped in San Marcos....nuff siad.

College town where all the cops think every kid is high or drunk. They all have a "I am Mr Bad bellybutton " attitude as well.

Sorry he got popped...hope it all works out for him.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: moot on November 08, 2007, 06:44:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Brass knuckles are illegal in most, if not all, states.  These aren't recent laws, the law in California has been on the books for many, many years.



ack-ack

Wow, good to know... I carry one most of the time...  I guess I'll have to ditch it next time I fly in the US.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: vorticon on November 08, 2007, 06:54:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 68Wooley
So, just to be clear here:

Its LEGAL for me to own an assault rifle, but its ILLEGAL to own knuckle dusters.

Sometimes I doubt I'll ever truly understand the US.



good luck concealing that fairly expensive assault rifle.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: crockett on November 08, 2007, 06:57:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
That aluminum baseball bat is a gray area btw.


How about my 8 inch divers knife..  :D
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: storch on November 08, 2007, 07:14:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
How about my 8 inch divers knife..  :D
where did you get an 8" diver's knife?
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: crockett on November 08, 2007, 08:25:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
where did you get an 8" diver's knife?


Well it has Japan stamped on the blade, so I guess Japan. :D

I picked it up in 1991 after I graduated HS, with some other used dive equipment I bought at the time.  Went to the Bahamas to work on my uncles salvage boat for a summer.

It's really closer to 7 and a half but I'm a man so I round up..
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: storch on November 08, 2007, 08:52:03 PM
that's a mighty long blade for a diver's knife.  most of the ones I've ever owned were about 4"
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Pooh21 on November 08, 2007, 09:31:47 PM
So Batons are teh bad to be carrying around in my car? I ordered mine from a large sprting goods company on the internets. Why is it worse then the folding knife I got my belt?
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Mr No Name on November 08, 2007, 09:39:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
your papers are not in order, you will come with us to gestapo headquarters.


america has turned into a black and white B movie from the fifties.


No, it has turned into the 60's summer of love nightmare now that people that were part of the counterculture then are now radical lawmakers.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 08, 2007, 10:26:18 PM
ok, got to talk to Kyle, after he got some sleep...
He got stopped by a DPS trooper on 21 just inside San Marcus city limits, speed limited goes from 65 to 55.  He thinks he was doin 70 at the time.  (Its a bad spot there, somebody's always waiting, I told him before to watch that spot)  Anyway he went through the whole licence and registration thing, answered the troopers questions,  trooper says because he was being truthful and polite he wasnt going to give him a ticket, (and this part hes not sure he remembers correctly) trooper basically asks him if he can search the car... Kyle says sure cause he's got nothing to worry about...until the brass knuckles pop up... he says he forgot all about them... says he bought them at some store over a year ago because they looked cool...he didnt know they were illegal.. they werent laying out in the open, he's pretty sure they were buried under junk on the floor in the back...trooper takes him in and has the car towed and impounded...
I saw his citation, court record, what ever you call the form the court gives you.  It has one charge for having a prohibited weapon,  $2,000 bail, he had to pay a $200 deposit...court date is in January...

He was told he can get a copy of the video of the traffic stop,  I'd like to see that...

The husband of one of the girls where my wife works is a San Marcus PD officer, he told her if he had know about it before it got to the judge he might have been able to do something about but now it was too late.  He thinks the trooper should have just confiscated the thing and let him go...
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: nirvana on November 08, 2007, 10:37:46 PM
Was he driving south back towards Mexico?  If so I can't see why they'd stop him for drug running, seems as though most go into the US.  Probably a stupid observation but just what I'm thinking.  Hope everything turns out alright Airscrew.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Regular on November 08, 2007, 11:12:29 PM
Why you hate on my bling G?

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q12/mellado/27255.jpg)
Title: Re: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: GovtFlu on November 09, 2007, 02:16:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Airscrew
Oh what a day... let me sent the stage...

My 18 yo daughter got back Tuesday morning after a week long trip with her boyfriend to his home in McAllen (meet his mother, a couple of day trips to Mexico and the coast, a little sight seeing.)  Yesterday at 3pm boyfriend leaves to go back home in McAllen.   6 oclock this morning we wake to her crying... it seems Kyle left at 3pm and hadnt call yet to say he was home.  She called his mother and she hadnt seen him either.  His cell phone wasnt working because he dropped it in the sand at the beach a few days ago.  She's worried, crying... and I'm trying to think of something to say that will make it better, after a few minutes I decide just to let mom handle it....

Finally she gets a call from Kyle's mom,  apparently on his way home he got stopped for speeding in San Marcus (about 30 miles from my house).  During the stop they searched his car and for what ever reason he had a pair of brass knuckles in his car.... so he's been in jail all night (and still in jail).  They wouldnt let him make a phone call to a cell phone number and he couldnt remember our house number, his mom only has a cell phone too.  so he was pretty much SOL...until his mom called all the counties between McAllen and here to track him down...

so now he has to wait till about 12 to see a judge, bail is $2000, with a $200 deposit, his mom (with my daughter's help) got a hold of a bail bond company.   Next she's needs to get a lawyer because one of the lawyers my wife works with says it was probably an illegal search, his car is impounded and gonna cost about $300-400 to get out... what a mess...


Thats why you should say "no" when the nice officer asks ever so politely "Mind if I search your car?" If they ask you to exit, roll up the windows and lock the doors...

Brass knuckles, any length double edged knife and nunchucks are all felonies (in Calif), but carrying a loaded 6" hog leg .357 is only a misdemeanor.

12020 PC / 12031 PC respectively

A brass knuckles pinch is a chickenspackle felony stat imo unless its a street urchin / other form of low life dirt bag.

BTW my educated guess is that despite reality, the police report will reflect: that upon contacting the driver re: a minor cvc violation, the officer noticed what appeared to be brass knuckles in plain view on the drivers side floor (violation 12020 PC). Suspect / driver was arrested for violation of the above, taken to. and booked at, whatever PD pending a future court date.

Don't at all be surprised in the entire report narrative is a paragraph,
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Jackal1 on November 09, 2007, 02:46:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by nirvana
Was he driving south back towards Mexico?  If so I can't see why they'd stop him for drug running, seems as though most go into the US.  Probably a stupid observation but just what I'm thinking.  Hope everything turns out alright Airscrew.




<----------drugs
money---------->
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Curval on November 09, 2007, 06:44:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
Stupid, isn't it?


It really is...especially seeing the justification here as being "it's considered a deadly weapon".

Ban teh knuckles!  

:rolleyes:
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Thruster on November 09, 2007, 07:04:51 AM
My how times have changed. Long story but funny. ( I think)

The last time I was pulled over in Tx. was a little over 20 years ago.
Was visiting Dad in Dallas, went up to Greenville on a Sat. night for some drinkin and grab assin. Met a new friend and "drove her home" . We had twisted one up on the road and she left a bit on my dash. Enough for one more. Not a lot, but not exactly invisible either.
Nevertheless, it was extremely late before she kicked me out and I had to get back to Dad's so armed with slightly cryptic directions I head back.
I'll never know if I made a bad turn or was going the way I was told to but here I am, 5:00 a.m. barrel-assin down Belt Line. The road goes to a 2 lane and I barely catch it. Two wheels go off for a second or two.
As if placed there by the Hand of God was a squad off the shoulder. He lights me up, I pull over. Officer approaches the truck, asks me if I'm o.k. I tell him my story(minus one or two details) and ask him if he could point me towards Dallas after he was done writing the ticket.

He takes my license, shines the interior of the truck and stops the beam on the dashboard. I follow to where the light's shining and there it is, right there for all the world to admire. He asks me to step out of the truck and if I have registration. I tell him I do and if he wants I can get it. While we're talking he's inside the cab looking around with the flashlight, I see him reach over and pop open the glove box.

I had forgotten about the pistol laying inside. Out it comes, lands on the floor, he picks it up, gets out and looks it over. Asks if I have any docs for the gun and of course, I don't.

He waves his partner out and he comes walking up. They exchange a few words and I see the flashlight go inside the truck, to my custom dash ornament. The second officer asks me my story again, then asks if there's any more surprises. I hadn't forgotten about a slightly customized winchester in the toolbox so since they hadn't overreacted, and I was already pretty much cooked, I told him figuring it would turn up eventually anyhow.

He looks me in the eye, shakes his head and says "So what part of Dallas you need to get to?"

It took a second for me to respond, he writes a few turns I need to make on the back of a business card and walks me over to the front of the truck.
He then says "go clean that S^%& off the dash and bring it here.
I do as asked and he says "now dump it on the ground." I hesitate for a moment, it was all I had and it was a decent hike home and told him so. He laughs and asks if I would rather just take a ride with them. I tell him no and comply. He smiles, tells me to be more careful, asks if I can get back o.k. then leaves.
I won't name the town but if you know the area, you might figure it out.

And that's why I don't gamble, I figure I used a lifetime's worth of luck that one night.

They really were a different breed back then weren't they?
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Dichotomy on November 09, 2007, 08:39:47 AM
In a word 'Yes' and I've got similar stories from my jaded youth.  

There is no way that kid should have been taken to jail.  The trooper should have used a little common sense and let him go.  I can almost guarantee that, moving forward, every time the kid sees a state trooper care he will be a tad apprehensive of them and harbor at least a small amount of dislike for them.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Curval on November 09, 2007, 09:29:43 AM
I have a similar story with a slightly different ending from an incident at Boston's Logan Airport Thruster.

Don't EVER mess with Mass. State Police is the lesson learned.

(I was not arrested but got very close to being)
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 09, 2007, 10:01:33 AM
Well his mom is supposed to come pick him up today and go get the car out of impound, turns out its only $175, still a good chunk of change but a lot cheaper than $300-400 we heard from others.

I spent some more time with him last night out on the porch before bed,.. he said if anything it was a good learning experience his time spent in the big house,...he met some interesting people at least...:D  my daughter asked me to buy him a toothbrush on the way home last night.. said his breath smelled like raw prettythang (I didnt ask)  When I gave it to him I told him he owed me two packs of smokes... I also told him I was going to bake him a cake and stick a file in it so he'll be prepared for the next time...
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Eagler on November 09, 2007, 10:05:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Thruster
They really were a different breed back then weren't they?


did you have piercings & tattoos?

it was a different time back then and you were as lucky as airscrews future son in law (hehe) was unlucky
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: storch on November 09, 2007, 10:21:54 AM
a very similar occurance with me thruster except is was an oz and had barely been touched.  it was also in my home town which is hialeah, florida.  the LEO dropped my pistol while admiring it, it got nicked pretty good he apologized for dropping it, he had me empty the baggie on the asphalt and then joked about arresting me for littering.

they were very different back then but they didn't have to "protect" us from terrorists, kids didn't need to bubble wrapped to ride their bikes to the park and we didn't use bouyancy compensators on our scuba gear, sex was safe and scuba diving and skydiving were dangerous.

If feel awful for my grandkids, thank god I'll never see what they will experience.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: VWE on November 09, 2007, 10:29:40 AM
Quote
My daughter says because he lives in McAllen he's used to the border patrol pulling people over all the time and searching for illegals.


Tell the border patrol to take their bus and park it behind any DMV in say Dallas county... well maybe they should bring 2 buses.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: WMLute on November 09, 2007, 10:55:47 AM
Played some basketball in H.S. after I xfer'd to a small private school.  (only 78 students in the whole school.  B.B. team was all we could manage)  We played a team from a boarding school called Thomas Jefferson (this is in St. Louis) and there I met a girl named Rachel after the game.  I was only a mile ish from my house, so after th game I was walking home and met her as I crossed the campus.  Went to her room, smoked some pot, and decided we liked each other.

We dated for a bit, and she decided one day it was time to meet her Uncle.  He lived fairly close to me in a pretty good sized house set on 5 acres w/ a guest house.  Her uncle does "construction".  (wink wink)

The Uncle and I hit it off right away and got rip roaring drunk.  I'm talking 4 wheeling his Rolls Royce around the yard and shooting off his guns @ 2am in the middle of the suburbs drunk.

After finding out I lived in the next town over (Sunset Hills) he brings me back  to his guest house and bangs on the door untill a middle aged portly man in a bath robe answers it.  He points to me and says "This kid, uhh.. what's your name again kid?"  I give it.  "This guy is NOT to be arrested unless he walks into City Hall and shoot the @#%$# Mayor!"  The fat guy said he understood and me and the Uncle went back to drinking.

Turns out it was the Chief of Police for the town I grew up in who lived in his guest house.

A few months later I was quite drunk and was driving to a party.  I had a police cruiser infront of me doing 20mph on a 35mph road.  I got impatient, so I rode the cruisers bumper and started honking my horn and flashing my brights.  (yes, I was THAT Drunk)

I pass where the party was supposed to be, see that it had allready been "busted" and pulled a u-turn in the driveway and headed back the way I came.  Of course the cops also u-turned and hit their lights.  I didn't feel like messing with getting pulled over so I just sped up and ignored them.  (yes, I was THAT drunk)

After a mile or so I came upon an intersection and the light was red.  I thought to mysel "hey, they are cops, they can't break the law" so I ran the red light thinking they would have to stop and wait for it to turn green and I could make my get away.  (yes, I was THAT drunk)

They of course also ran the red light and I finally decided to pull my car over.  As the officer walked up to my car, I could see he was visibly upset.  He had his flashlight out and I see the beam hit the open beer between my legs, the cooler full of beer in the seat next to me, and the 1/2 dozen or so roaches and joints in my open ashtray.

He asks for my Drivers Liscens and walks back to his car and runs it.  After a few min. he walks back to my car and says "Sir I noticed you are only a few miles from home.  Would you like me to follow you to make sure you get back home ok?"

I say  "F.U. Pig" (yes, I was THAT drunk) to which he replies "Yes sir, you have a good night sir" and drives off.

Outside of the party I threw where a Biker Gang showed up (ok yeah, it had gotten a bit out of controll) that was the only run-in I had w/ the Police in my home town.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: john9001 on November 09, 2007, 11:31:02 AM
WMLute, do you write for penthouse magazine?
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: WMLute on November 09, 2007, 11:41:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
WMLute, do you write for penthouse magazine?


naw, but I used to be an avid reader of it.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: trax1 on November 09, 2007, 12:33:56 PM
I don't know if someone has already mentioned this but, I was in Wisconsin and was able to buy brass knuckles because they are sold as a belt buckle, they just put a tiny post on it and its a belt buckle, so if his brass knuckles were sold this way to him he can claim that it's a belt buckle and thus legal.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Airscrew on November 09, 2007, 01:00:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by trax1
I don't know if someone has already mentioned this but, I was in Wisconsin and was able to buy brass knuckles because they are sold as a belt buckle, they just put a tiny post on it and its a belt buckle, so if his brass knuckles were sold this way to him he can claim that it's a belt buckle and thus legal.

I'll have to ask him next time, He did say something about finding them in a clothing store
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Ripsnort on November 09, 2007, 10:47:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
It really is...especially seeing the justification here as being "it's considered a deadly weapon".

Ban teh knuckles!  

:rolleyes:

Actually, in most countries, the possession, let alone use, of brass knuckles is illegal.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Curval on November 10, 2007, 06:11:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Actually, in most countries, the possession, let alone use, of brass knuckles is illegal.


Correct.  Same applies to guns.  You seem fine with brass knuckles being illegal but not guns.

Thus the irony (and rolleyeyes).
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: storch on November 10, 2007, 07:11:41 AM
brass knuckles are for strong arm types, as is a baton, a blackjack etc.  a firearm is precisely what one needs to keep thugs who would use those types of bludgeoning weapons at a distance.  I disagree with brass knuckles being made illegal.  I can see the irony as well as the apparent whimsey demonstrated by such laws but that is the nature of government.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: red26 on November 10, 2007, 07:41:59 AM
H.B. No. 1815
 
 
 
     
AN ACT
     relating to the prosecution of certain offenses that involve
     carrying weapons on a person's property or in a person's vehicle.
            BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
            SECTION 1.  Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by
     amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to
     read as follows:
            (a)  A person commits an offense if the person [he]
     intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
     her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
                  (1)  on the person's own premises or premises under the
     person's control; or
                  (2)  inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
     that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
            (a-1)  A person commits an offense if the person
     intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
     her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
     or under the person's control at any time in which:
                  (1)  the handgun is in plain view; or
                  (2)  the person is:
                        (A)  engaged in criminal activity, other than a
     Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
     regulating traffic;
                        (B)  prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
     or
                        (C)  a member of a criminal street gang, as
     defined by Section 71.01.
            (a-2)  For purposes of this section, "premises" includes
     real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as
     living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or
     permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor
     vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a
     vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to
     be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer,
     camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with
     living quarters.
            SECTION 2.  Section 46.15(b), Penal Code, as amended by
     Chapters 1221 and 1261, Acts of the 75th Legislature, Regular
     Session, 1997, is reenacted and amended to read as follows:
            (b)  Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
                  (1)  is in the actual discharge of official duties as a
     member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by
     Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal
     institution;
                  (2)  [is on the person's own premises or premises under
     the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
     the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
     is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
     property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
     (5);
                  [(3)]  is traveling;
                  (3) [(4)]  is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or
     other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the
     activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the
     actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly
     used in the activity;
                  (4) [(5)]  holds a security officer commission issued
     by the Texas [Board of Private Investigators and] Private Security
     Board [Agencies], if:
                        (A)  the person is engaged in the performance of
     the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from
     the person's place of assignment;
                        (B)  the person is wearing a distinctive uniform;
     and
                        (C)  the weapon is in plain view;
                  (5) [(6)]  is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid
     license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code
     [Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes], to carry a concealed
     handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;
                  (6) [(7)]  holds a security officer commission and a
     personal protection officer authorization issued by the Texas
     [Board of Private Investigators and] Private Security Board
     [Agencies] and [who] is providing personal protection under Chapter
     1702, Occupations Code [the Private Investigators and Private
     Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil
     Statutes)]; or
                  (7) [(8)]  holds an alcoholic beverage permit or
     license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage
     permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the
     permitted or licensed premises.
            SECTION 3.  The following provisions are repealed:
                  (1)  Section 46.15(h), Penal Code; and
                  (2)  Section 46.15(i), Penal Code, as added by Chapter
     288, Acts of the 79th Legislature, Regular Session, 2005.
            SECTION 4.  The change in law made by this Act applies only
     to an offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act.
     An offense committed before the effective date of this Act is
     governed by the law in effect when the offense was committed, and
     the former law is continued in effect for that purpose. For
     purposes of this section, an offense was committed before the
     effective date of this Act if any element of the offense was
     committed before that date.
            SECTION 5.  This Act takes effect September 1, 2007.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Jackal1 on November 10, 2007, 07:46:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
WMLute, do you write for penthouse magazine?


He just still "that drunk". :rofl
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: red26 on November 10, 2007, 07:52:38 AM
This was put in place on September 1 2007 it states (a) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person.

HB 1815 made it legal to carry a illegal (  handgun,knife or ((CLUB)) try to see if you can get the brass knuckles seen as a club then it would set the young man free.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Ripsnort on November 10, 2007, 08:36:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
Correct.  Same applies to guns.  You seem fine with brass knuckles being illegal but not guns.

Thus the irony (and rolleyeyes).

One is covered by an amendment in our constitution and is knitted into the very fabric of what our country stands for. The other is simply what thugs use to rip your lips up.  I'm not quite sure why you think everything is a black and white issue.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: storch on November 10, 2007, 09:06:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
One is covered by an amendment in our constitution and is knitted into the very fabric of what our country stands for. The other is simply what thugs use to rip your lips up.  I'm not quite sure why you think everything is a black and white issue.
ripsnort, getting hit with knuckledusters by someone who knows what he is doing will shatter bone and can kill a person by splitting open his skull.  they are indeed lethal weapons as the injuries are more damaging than merely soft tissue damage.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 10, 2007, 11:04:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by red26
This was put in place on September 1 2007 it states (a) A person commits an offense if the person
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person.

HB 1815 made it legal to carry a illegal (  handgun,knife or ((CLUB)) try to see if you can get the brass knuckles seen as a club then it would set the young man free.


He wasn't carrying it on his person, he was traveling and it was in his vehicle out of plain sight -> according to the law text displayed there was no crime.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Ripsnort on November 10, 2007, 02:03:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
He wasn't carrying it on his person, he was traveling and it was in his vehicle out of plain sight -> according to the law text displayed there was no crime.
"on or about his/her person".  If the vehicle is registered in his name, then "on or about his/her person" covers that.  A better term would be "in possession". Anything in your vehicle is considered "in possession" or "on or about his/her person".
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: john9001 on November 10, 2007, 02:06:14 PM
lawyer talk.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: GovtFlu on November 10, 2007, 07:43:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
"on or about his/her person".  If the vehicle is registered in his name, then "on or about his/her person" covers that.  A better term would be "in possession". Anything in your vehicle is considered "in possession" or "on or about his/her person".


Yup, the DA / city atty will argue he was the sole occupant and had "dominion and control", which is lawyer speak for within proximity and readily available.
Title: ?? Brass Knuckles ??
Post by: Hornet33 on November 10, 2007, 08:14:14 PM
Gee I wonder what they would do to me. I carry 2 cans of military/police grade pepper spray, an Asp Baton, and a gut hook hunting knife with a six inch blade in my truck at all times. I have a CCW and a rigid holster for my pistol mounted under the dash. If I'm in my truck the pistol goes there because it's easier to get to. Oh I also have a camping axe I keep under the back seat.

Then again I wouldn't let them search my truck until a senior officer showed up with a valid search warrant in his hand and I had a copy in my hand.