Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on November 16, 2007, 12:26:50 PM
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The Feds say it is not????????????
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58724
I REALLY curios how this is going to come out!
If gold, silver, and platinum can not be used as money.............
If government agency can TAKE your gold, silver, and platinum..........
Is this about Control?
Liberty Dollars
http://www.libertydollar.org/
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The problem is they were creating a coin and assigning a value. If they had created a coin with no assigned value for collector use, no problem. If they had simply been a gold/silver broker and traded at current market value, once again no problem. The problem comes that they were attempting to create something that is not a formally recognized form of currency and use it as such.
The gov't can't use the counterfiet claim, they were nto creating something to pass off as US currency. I have no clue which legal term/tactic they are going to try to use on them. I say if the grocery store or gas staion guy is willing to take their custom coin as payment for his goods I have no problem with that. I see it as me trading the neighbor my beat up truck for his lawn mower. Or me offering to take care of some small electrical repairs at the mechanics shop is he fixes my car. The good old fashioned barter system. Which basically was what currency was supposed to replace so that your local farmer didn't have to lug around 100 bushels of corn to pay for his diesel fuel for the tractor.
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Originally posted by Tiger
The problem is they were creating a coin and assigning a value. If they had created a coin with no assigned value for collector use, no problem. If they had simply been a gold/silver broker and traded at current market value, once again no problem. The problem comes that they were attempting to create something that is not a formally recognized form of currency and use it as such.
Why would that be a problem? Every gift certificate, every coupon has assigned value. We can trade in any currency (backed by gold or not).
Why would Liberty Dollar be exception?
Feds just got a hard on when it comes to control...
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Of course gold is money. The problem is the Fed can't simply print more of it, so they see it as a threat to their system.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Why would that be a problem? Every gift certificate, every coupon has assigned value. We can trade in any currency (backed by gold or not).
Why would Liberty Dollar be exception?
Feds just got a hard on when it comes to control...
every gift certificate, coupon, etc is not universally redeemable, and the small print in a coupon says something like "cash value 1/20 of 1 cent"
The federal mint system was originally concieved so that we would have a uniform monatary system in the USA.
Before the federal mint was established, states were establishing independant money sytems and before the BIP established a monopoly on printing paper money, banks printed their own currency. If you carried currency from one state to another, a local bank in say Ohio would discount the Vermont bank's currency because of the distance between the two banks.
Here the europeans establish the Euro to get rid of competing currency systems, and this bozo wants to begin a competetor to the dollar within our own country.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
this bozo wants to begin a competetor to the dollar within our own country.
You say "competetor" like that's a bad word, what are you, a communist? Of all the values my parents instilled in me while I was growing up, competition being a good thing was right up near the top.
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
You say "competetor" like that's a bad word, what are you, a communist? Of all the values my parents instilled in me while I was growing up, competition being a good thing was right up near the top.
So you think that going to 50 seperate state currancies would be a good or bad thing?
Did your parents instill in you a sense of cooperation and teamwork? These are usually considered good things as well.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
every gift certificate, coupon, etc is not universally redeemable, and the small print in a coupon says something like "cash value 1/20 of 1 cent"
same for Liberty Dollar
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Here the europeans establish the Euro to get rid of competing currency systems, and this bozo wants to begin a competetor to the dollar within our own country.
Firstly, competition is desired in every market driven economy, secondly, him being a bozo or not does not justify action of the feds.
Read US Code: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/usc_sup_01_31_08_IV_10_51.html
Currently there's no law (that I'm aware of) which says that private business have to honor legal tender or that they can't issue and use substitute.
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Of cource gold isnt money anymore than silver, platinum or any other metal is money.
Do you think oil is money? Lumber? Steel?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So you think that going to 50 seperate state currancies would be a good or bad thing?
I'd tend to see any alternative to the current fiat currency that's dragging this country down as a good thing.
Did your parents instill in you a sense of cooperation and teamwork?
sure they did, but cooperation and teamwork implies choice. If there's only one "team", then that's a monopoly. Gov't-backed monopoly leads to fascism or communism, take your pick.
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I think the fed's problem was that it is not U.S. Currency, but it is being sold as a legal alternative with slightly misleading pitches.
Minting something like this is not illegal and using it as a "voucher" to establish a transactional value is ok by law but intimating that there's some real monetary value is fraud.
If it's not issued by the U.S. mint. it ain't legal currency. It's nothing more than a pretty poker chip.
And don't go believing everything you read on the web. That site links to a few pages that are almost comedic in their half baked assumptions and conclusions.
I talk to a lot of "free thinkers" that have some very elementary views on the way the money system works and what the dollar's place in it all is.
Suffice it to say that we can't do without; The Federal Reserve
The World Bank
A single currency
A floating exchange system
About the last thing we need is a domestic alternative to the U.S.D. That's a can of worms nobody wants to open.
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Well I guess I'm gonna fire up the ole laptop tonight and start printing Tigers (sounds like a good name fr a currency). I'll make them in denominations of 1, 3, 7, and 12 Tigers. (Just to be unique). I then think I will convince all the local gas stations and grocery stores to accept my Tigers and get everyone in the area envolved in switch from USD's to Tigers. As far as coinage goes, I guess I can go get so steel sheets and a dye punch and crete them too. I hate pennies so I figure I'll use .02, .15, .30, and .50. Those seem pretty good choice to me. I will then proceed to create an entirely arbitrary exhange rate for USD's to Dollars.
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i would buy liberty dollars but all my money is tied up in Nigerian gold mines.
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"If it's not issued by the U.S. mint. it ain't legal currency. It's nothing more than a pretty poker chip"
Well the USD is also a poker chip and the house has no tangible backing for it.
I still believe we should go back to the old system of making the money out of the metal that's worth it.
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Originally posted by Tac
"If it's not issued by the U.S. mint. it ain't legal currency. It's nothing more than a pretty poker chip"
Well the USD is also a poker chip and the house has no tangible backing for it.
I still believe we should go back to the old system of making the money out of the metal that's worth it.
Why not just go back to the barter system then?
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and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that were just delivered last Friday
what, you guys missed this? WTF is a "Ron Paul" Dollar?
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i wonder if ron paul will accept ron paul dollars as a campaign contribution?
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Tac, we can't.
The value of the underlying commodities changes constantly. The coin's actual value would have to fluctuate.
And think about it. Do you really wants your nation's currency value to peg to the market value of anything BUT itself?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Did your parents instill in you a sense of cooperation and teamwork? These are usually considered good things as well.
Yes, but having a gun to your head and being told to cooperate isn't a good thing it's slavery.
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Hey Thruster, cool avatar. The smoking skull looks just like one of the squadron patches on my dads flight jacket, The Black Diamonds iirc...
Edit: nm, similar, but not the same as one of the patches, and not the Black Diamonds one... :/
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Yes, but having a gun to your head and being told to cooperate isn't a good thing it's slavery.
how many currency's does canada have, the pound, franc, canadian dollar, beaver pelts?
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Originally posted by Tiger
Why not just go back to the barter system then?
It is difficult to figure 6 1/4% annual interest on a pig.
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
I'd tend to see any alternative to the current fiat currency that's dragging this country down as a good thing.
The currency is not dragging down the country, the country's policy is dragging down the currency.
If I can buy gold for $800 / ozt , then the currency is worth 1/800 of an oz troy.
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http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/15/liberty-dollar-office-raided/
some say it got raided because of the Ron Paul Dollar "medallions"
wouldn't suprise me a bit.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/9893062.html LMAO this is funny. Fed tax evasion case, Feds won zero of 161 counts.
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Originally posted by john9001
beaver pelts?
Did you know that's where the term "Buck" comes from?
And yep, my government has a gun to my head as well.
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Originally posted by Thruster
I think the fed's problem was that it is not U.S. Currency, but it is being sold as a legal alternative with slightly misleading pitches.
Minting something like this is not illegal and using it as a "voucher" to establish a transactional value is ok by law but intimating that there's some real monetary value is fraud.
If it's not issued by the U.S. mint. it ain't legal currency. It's nothing more than a pretty poker chip.
And don't go believing everything you read on the web. That site links to a few pages that are almost comedic in their half baked assumptions and conclusions.
I talk to a lot of "free thinkers" that have some very elementary views on the way the money system works and what the dollar's place in it all is.
Suffice it to say that we can't do without; The Federal Reserve
The World Bank
A single currency
A floating exchange system
About the last thing we need is a domestic alternative to the U.S.D. That's a can of worms nobody wants to open.
Whether "Liberty Dollar" is a silly idea or not is not an issue. Nobody is forced to buy their coins or papers.
If somebody is putting more faith into platinum, gold and silver coins then so be it.
Problem are Feds and their methods. They shouldn't raid a legitimate business like in some Ninja movie just because they feel like it.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Whether "Liberty Dollar" is a silly idea or not is not an issue. Nobody is forced to buy their coins or papers.
If somebody is putting more faith into platinum, gold and silver coins then so be it.
Problem are Feds and their methods. They shouldn't raid a legitimate business like in some Ninja movie just because they feel like it.
ahhh someone gets it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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They are under investigation for money laundering and mail fraud in connection with money laundering, not selling coins.
I read that 49 million adults in the US cannot read or comprehend above an 8th-grade level. I believe it.
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I saw no where in the links that said anything about Mail Fraud or Money Laundering.
While I do understand what Groin is talking about with the history of the Confederation, I also see no where in the constitution that prohibits the people, or possibly even the states from coining their own money.
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Is this another "the government is bad, the sky is falling the sky is falling" thread?
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Here is the warrant: link >> (http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/pdf/seizure_warrent_20071114.pdf)
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Originally posted by Rolex
Here is the warrant: link >> (http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/pdf/seizure_warrent_20071114.pdf)
Thats fine Rolex..but you left out the most important part, the affidavit....
no worry..we are getting used to that:)
shamus
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Originally posted by Thruster
Minting something like this is not illegal and using it as a "voucher" to establish a transactional value is ok by law but intimating that there's some real monetary value is fraud.
The coins do have better monetary value than the USD itself. Those are printed on precious metals while the USD is either worthless paper or copper and nickel. The platinum, gold and silver coins are worth their weight and respective value in any currency.
Many currencies used to be tied to the value of gold or some other valuable goods. Some centuries ago the value of currency was directly tied to the worth of the metal used in the coins - Although it wasn't a good choice in wide spread use. Eitherway, the coins could have been melt into gold bars and they would've retained the same value.
These coins are equal to platinum, gold and silver. It's the same deal as if you'd be trading with gold bars; Like the very rich people and the governments. They're only in more convenient size and traded at a fixed value rather than by the weight tied to the fluctuating (although relatively steady) market prices of precious metals.
With the constantly inflating value of USD it's a good idea to tie up your fortune in gold or some other goods that retain most of their value through a depression.
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The coins do have better monetary value than the USD itself. Those are printed on precious metals while the USD is either worthless paper or copper and nickel. The platinum, gold and silver coins are worth their weight and respective value in any currency.
No they don't. They have intrinsic value based upon the underlying commodity's value. And of course they are worth their weight. In base metal, that's the point. The are not money, look up the definition of "legal Tender".
Many currencies used to be tied to the value of gold or some other valuable goods. Some centuries ago the value of currency was directly tied to the worth of the metal used in the coins - Although it wasn't a good choice in wide spread use. Eitherway, the coins could have been melt into gold bars and they would've retained the same value.
Of course that was before the mechanics of international trade made it completely impractical.
These coins are equal to platinum, gold and silver. It's the same deal as if you'd be trading with gold bars; Like the very rich people and the governments. They're only in more convenient size and traded at a fixed value rather than by the weight tied to the fluctuating (although relatively steady) market prices of precious metals.
You still don't get that currency and commodity values have no business being pegged. The supply and demand considerations that affects a nation's currency are rarely the same as affect commodities. It's possible that in an inflationary climate (which in moderation is considered healthy) the market demand for say, gold may be weak, which it often is, due to higher interest rates being a more attractive hedge and so forth. Now your pegged currency is worth less, driving up the relative value of The goods you purchase. Not we get into force fed inflation which is what causes economic depression. Bad Idea, that's why it was abandoned years ago.
With the constantly inflating value of USD it's a good idea to tie up your fortune in gold or some other goods that retain most of their value through a depression.
First off, if the value of U.S.D. is constantly inflating , that would tend to make it a keeper in most investors eyes. Second, the only way a stash of gold will help is if you plan on becoming a refugee. If the domestic economy dives, not only will there be plenty of valuables up for sale, decreasing demand, lowering prices, the money paid will be of decreased value, because the economies shot. a simplistic example I know but it's late. But you see, in a depression EVERYTHING loses it's value.
I think what you meant was constantly DEflating value of the dollar against other major crosses but that's not the case. Exchange rates ebb and flow. It's natural and a sign of a healthy global economy. It's when demand for a currency tanks that's the problem. Especially when it's a major currency like the U.S.D. The way the world's set up at the moment the risk of a U.S.D. meltdown should be the least of our worries. It sucks that going to Europe has gotten more expensive but I'm not all that well traveled so it's not really an issue for me. Basically, it has an impact on the amount of some stuff we can buy but again, that's the nature of the game. Once U.S.D. gets to a level that encourages more longs, that wine will start to get a bit cheaper. That is if fuel costs don't offset the dividend.
Not that long ago another major economy got so weird that short term gov't bonds there were paying a negative
yield. You gave the government one hundred yen , after a few months you got back something like 99.15 back.(sorta) Bank interest was a whopping 1 percent and people were still willing to lose money than trust a bank's solvency to last a year. the yen was at the time a "strong" currency against the dollar but that was due to a trade deficit. They're still here, apparently doing ok, and so will we.
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Don't know the law in the USA is. But the whole money thing is very weird in the United Kingdom. There are no less than eleven types of pound sterling banknotes. In England and Wales the only the Bank of England can issue banknotes and these are only legal tender in England and Wales and nowhere else in the UK. In Scotland and Northern Ireland each bank issues it's own notes. These are not legal tender but are 'promissory notes'. In effect vouchers promising that the bearer will receive the sterling equivalent if they go to that bank. In England they rarely accept Scottish or Northern Irish notes in shops but of course English money is taken everywhere even though technically it is not legal tender outside England and Wales:confused: :confused:
English (inc.Wales):
Bank of England
Scottish notes:
Bank of Scotland
Royal Bank of Scotland
Clydesdale Bank
Northern Irish notes:
Northern Bank
First Trust Bank
Ulster Bank
Bank of Ireland
Crown dependencies:
States of Guernsey
States of Jersey
Isle of Man Government
I wonder is the Liberty people are looking for a similar arrangement
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Originally posted by Thruster
No they don't. They have intrinsic value based upon the underlying commodity's value. And of course they are worth their weight. In base metal, that's the point. The are not money, look up the definition of "legal Tender".
Every traded currency is a "commodity". Legal tender is no exception.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Every traded currency is a "commodity". Legal tender is no exception.
True, and the pricing is based upon supply/demand for the individual currencies. Not based upon some underlying basis. Ie. the value of corn pegged to the value of wheat. Why would you want that?
The idea of a national currency's value being dependent on another, commonly traded commodity is just not practical. That's why it's not done.
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If It's Good Enough For Mickey, Why Not For Paul? (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/11/19/if_its_good_enough_for_mickey.html)
The FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in western North Carolina, which is handling the case, have declined to comment on the raids, but an affidavit filed in Asheville earlier this month describes a two-year long undercover investigation of the group, based partly on evidence obtained by an informant who posed as someone wanting to become a regional associate for the group. The affidavit states the group is being investigated for federal violations including "uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal" and "making of possessing likenesses of coins." "The goal of Norfed is to undermine the United States goverment's financial systems by the issuance of a non-governmental competing currency," the affidavit states.
This argument met with ridicule over the weekend from the prolific on-line network of Ron Paul supporters and sound money advocates, some of whom sarcastically predicted that the feds would next be going after Disneyworld for selling "Disney Dollars" for use inside the amusement park. "Here is a Mickey Mouse coin issued by that criminal, separatist organization, the Walt Disney Corporation. Did someone fail Common Sense 101?" wrote one commenter on the Post's Web site, offering a link to an image of the offending Mickey dubloon. Wrote another, "With commemorative coins advertised in every Sunday newspaper, and given the Donald Duck silver coins sold at Disney Land, this is an obvious attack on Ron Paul, a legitimate Presidential candidate, by the Federal Government. I am going to respond by going to Ron Paul's web site, easily found with Google, and giving $100 today."
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Originally posted by Thruster
Of course that was before the mechanics of international trade made it completely impractical.
What made it impractical is that DeGaul wanted Nixon to pay of the accruing US trade deficit in gold and Nixon simply didn't want to. It was a con nothing more.
You still don't get that currency and commodity values have no business being pegged. The supply and demand considerations that affects a nation's currency are rarely the same as affect commodities. It's possible that in an inflationary climate (which in moderation is considered healthy) the market demand for say, gold may be weak, which it often is, due to higher interest rates being a more attractive hedge and so forth. Now your pegged currency is worth less, driving up the relative value of The goods you purchase. Not we get into force fed inflation which is what causes economic depression. Bad Idea, that's why it was abandoned years ago.
I can't believe that you are actually arguing that a commodity back currency is more likely to inflate compared to fiat currency. History seems to have proven otherwise. Commodity backed currency inflation limited by the scarcity of the commodity. Fiat currency is limited only by the will of they who control the printing press.
But you see, in a depression EVERYTHING loses it's value.
Absolutely not. In a depression everything might lose it's book value domestically, but it keeps it's inherent value. Thus it can be a medium of exchange.
The way the world's set up at the moment the risk of a U.S.D. meltdown should be the least of our worries.
The risk of the USD hyper-inflating is present and growing. I have been documenting some of thoughts on it in another thread....
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165716
the yen was at the time a "strong" currency against the dollar but that was due to a trade deficit. They're still here, apparently doing ok, and so will we.
I don't know what Japan's current account balance was during this time, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as the US's.
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Thrawn,
Long before Nixon and DeGaul, the challenge of establishing timely exchange values was one of the most significant impediments to efficient international trade. Acceptance became the principle consideration when establishing a particular currency's exchange value. A troubled economy with little international acceptance was more volatile than the money of a stable, global power irrespective of precious metal reserves. The more volatility, the harder it is to establish financial agreements that may take years to complete. Consequently the larger, more stable economies posses liquidity and demand, a far more efficient method of establishing value.
Let's just say that we go back to a monetary system limited by domestic gold reserves. We know that the value of the planet's monetary supply far exceeds the value of gold currently in circulation and keeps increasing. Even after we mine all the gold in existence we'll still be short by today's values. So now we have to re-value gold. It would be ok if it ended there but you see, there's always more "value" added to the world's asset pool, it has to be accounted for now by more gold in the vaults. Now we can't do that, we need to de-vaulue gold, now current assets are worth less, or they need to be re-valued. I can imagine what would happen to mortgages, interest bearing deposits, bonds and such but what happens when some genius decides to push a market around ala the Hunt bros.vs. silver or Soros and the G.B.P.? Although my mouth waters at the arbitrage opportunities, I can't see it as a healthy environment. Oh yeah, we'd also have to go back to federalizing precious metals. Brass wedding rings anyone?
In a depression everything loses value, and not equally. Staples become much more valuable versus non-essentials like gold, gemstones, or art. In the event of a depression one of the first victims would be a precious metal basis for currency valuation.
Regarding U.S.D. hyper inflation, as long as the U.S. maintains it's relative position in the global economy, demand for U.S.D. will be strong. One of the main factors in the ascendancy of the Euro involved yield curves, Euro based debt was cheaper than dollar based loans. Internationally, this made it an attractive instrument of exchange for obvious reasons. As demand grew, it became beneficial to hold Euro based assets as their exchange value increased. This can't go on forever and one hopes the E.U. member countries can keep it together long enough to truly homogenize the pan European economy. Nevertheless, backing the dollar with adequate gold reserves won't contribute much to that environment.
And finally,
Japan's current accounts have always been on the whole, negative with most of it's other trade partners. It's an import based economy. Few natural reserves and little economic sphere of influence. The trade deficit speaks to how much we buy from them against what we sell. At the time the yen was slipping against all the majors due to their need to acquire goods from external sources to keep their economy running. Often paid with dollars.
If I'm not mistaken, Japanese corporations are required to certify their books twice a year, at that time they are required to have a certain percentage of their assets in yen based equity. This causes a significant repatriation of yen in financial markets, boosting value. Combined with heavily protectionist trade practices, these policies enable the Japanese M.O.F. modulate currency values to prevent substantial Yen devaluation against other issues. We don't have the same privilege and I suspect don't want it for too many reasons to list here.
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just for some comic relief
Bernard von Nuthouse
plus knowing that he is a monetary Architect makes me want to buy,invest,or just plain have fun as this qoute from the website proves
"The three best reasons to use the Liberty Dollar: Have fun, do good, earn money.
First, it's FUN. You'll have merchants asking lots of questions, friends gathering around to see the currency, and you can become an expert on money - all by getting some Liberty Dollars.
Second, it's good for your community. As a community currency, Liberty Dollars don't disappear, so when you spend them, they stay in the local economy. Plus, Liberty Dollars are inflation-proof and debt-free REAL money, so they're good for America.
Third, it's profitable to become a Liberty Associate or a Liberty Merchant. Plus using the Liberty Dollar will attract new business, generate advertising, and build a loyal customer base around the Liberty Dollar! And by giving out the Liberty Dollar in change, you can earn more!"
Ok now you can go back to being serious either way
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Gold is gold is gold. ( or any other precious metal)
1 oz. of gold weighs 1 oz. no matter where you go in the world. What it is worth depends where you go, how much its in demand, and how valuable is it at any given moment. I'll bet that there are places in the world that 1 oz. of gold is more valuable than the USD equivalent. I am willing to bet that I could trade that oz. of gold for commodities in more places than I could the USD.
How much US currency can be printed until it starts to have less and less value. Don't have enough? Crunch all you like, well make more! (hope I don't get sued by Doritos)
Value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. As when one sells an item on E-bay, the value of said item is limited to the worth of said item as viewed the person purchasing it.
I believe that in a global view, the less we back up our own currency, less value it will eventually have in the worlds economy.
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Originally posted by Tiger
Well I guess I'm gonna fire up the ole laptop tonight and start printing Tigers (sounds like a good name fr a currency). I'll make them in denominations of 1, 3, 7, and 12 Tigers. (Just to be unique). I then think I will convince all the local gas stations and grocery stores to accept my Tigers and get everyone in the area envolved in switch from USD's to Tigers. As far as coinage goes, I guess I can go get so steel sheets and a dye punch and crete them too. I hate pennies so I figure I'll use .02, .15, .30, and .50. Those seem pretty good choice to me. I will then proceed to create an entirely arbitrary exhange rate for USD's to Dollars.
Good luck with that then.
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Gold is gold is gold. ( or any other precious metal)
1 oz. of gold weighs 1 oz. no matter where you go in the world. What it is worth depends where you go, how much its in demand, and how valuable is it at any given moment. I'll bet that there are places in the world that 1 oz. of gold is more valuable than the USD equivalent. I am willing to bet that I could trade that oz. of gold for commodities in more places than I could the USD.
The value of gold is pretty much the same everywhere in the world because it is also used as a currency. The governments doesn't have sizeable gold reserves for nothing.
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Originally posted by Thruster
The way the world's set up at the moment the risk of a U.S.D. meltdown should be the least of our worries
The world trades in dollars becuase of a US deal with opec. What if opec start trading in euros. then what?
1 euro > .68 dollar as of yesterday
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But, you can certainly barter or trade with it.
We have been off the gold standard for years, but gold wasn't money.....it just backed the money with VALUE.
Old timers like to keep some precious metals around in the event of another depression...."money" becomes worthless......precious metals don't.
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Originally posted by Bingolong
The world trades in dollars becuase of a US deal with opec. What if opec start trading in euros. then what?
Then opec would be defeating the purpose of using the dollar a standaard of payment. That is to use the most stable and liquid currency available. Exchange trends aside, the E.U. is still just a confederation of aligned sovereign nations. Any number of potential obstacles have to be overcome before the Euro is even as stable as Sterling, which it fundamentally replaced (I know along with 17 or so others).
We also have failed to mention the enormous amount of long term debt held overseas in dollar denominated instruments. Or for that matter domestic assets owned by foreign concerns. Everyone who is anyone wants a strong dollar.
I stick by my earlier statement, if the dollar crumbles, head for the hills
'cause all your gonna get with a handful of Euro's, Shekels, Yen, Rubles, or Peso's is a handful of pretty t.p.
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Gold is gold is gold. ( or any other precious metal)
1 oz. of gold weighs 1 oz. no matter where you go in the world. What it is worth depends where you go, how much its in demand, and how valuable is it at any given moment. I'll bet that there are places in the world that 1 oz. of gold is more valuable than the USD equivalent. I am willing to bet that I could trade that oz. of gold for commodities in more places than I could the USD.
How much US currency can be printed until it starts to have less and less value. Don't have enough? Crunch all you like, well make more! (hope I don't get sued by Doritos)
Value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. As when one sells an item on E-bay, the value of said item is limited to the worth of said item as viewed the person purchasing it.
I believe that in a global view, the less we back up our own currency, less value it will eventually have in the worlds economy.
OOPS!!!???
I believe gold is measured using TROY ounces?
Which is NOT the same as the English ounces.
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OK, then insert TROY before oz. All said, I was raised by my grandparents who survived a depression. You should hear the tirades my grandfather goes upon about the lack of a gold standard. When currency (paper) goes to pot (which is weighed in regular ounces iirc) gold and gems retain value.
Look at De beers. They created a demand for gold (remember the annual commercials with the Vivaldi score in the background) Then they witheld (or bottlenecked anyhow) the supply. Diamonds became "forever" and instantly valuable.