Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ramzey on November 18, 2007, 03:52:38 PM

Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: ramzey on November 18, 2007, 03:52:38 PM
Here whats happen couple months ago in Afghanistan

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/international/general/view.bg?articleid=1044720

Sad story, special how they treat those soldiers back home....

Can someone enlight me what wold happen if that will be US not Polish Soldiers involved in this kind of accident?

And what the story about Geneva convention  not apply US soldiers?

its not a flame bait, im just curious about procedure.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: texasmom on November 18, 2007, 03:56:15 PM
How is that not flame-baiting?

Soldiers who aren't from the US don't do anything... but you ask... yeah, but if these were our guys, why wouldn't they get into trouble.. automatically assuming that they'd get a pass.

Please, don't even act like it ain't a troll here.  Pffft.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: ramzey on November 18, 2007, 03:58:37 PM
think first , post later woman

im interesting how US would handle such a case.
My natives  treat soldiers like scums and i dont like that.
Many call US as example of honorable trating their soldiers in such  cases.
And im wonder how/ whats the procedure.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: texasmom on November 18, 2007, 03:59:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
think first , post later woman

im interesting how US would handle such a case.
My natives  treat soldiers like scums and i dont like that.
Many call US as example of honorable trating their soldiers in such  cases.
And im wonder how/ whats the procedure.


Don't act like you're the enlightened one here.  :rofl

All I'm saying is: get to the point, Troll.  Cause it AIN'T "oh, i'm just curious... oh, I'm wondering how... blah, blah, blah..."
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: ramzey on November 18, 2007, 04:05:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
Don't act like you're the enlightened one here.  :rofl

All I'm saying is: get to the point, Troll.  Cause it AIN'T "oh, i'm just curious... oh, I'm wondering how... blah, blah, blah..."


do you feel not enlighted? i think you should talk about that with your therapist next time
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Neubob on November 18, 2007, 04:07:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
think first , post later woman  


I was going to include that exact line in my wedding vows...

Reconsidered at the last moment.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: texasmom on November 18, 2007, 04:09:51 PM
Let's just skip through the 2 or 3 additional pages of posts here that you're going to make which will be incoherant, and get to the intended purpose of your initial post. ;)
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Yeager on November 18, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
I would think that if any US soldier did what these polish soldiers are "accused"  of doing, then those US soldiers would be prosecuted under military code of justice.  I don't know why you think US soldiers are immune from prosecution when they break laws of war.  We do have news reports on certain US soldiers being disciplined for this crime and that.
Title: Re: Civilian casulties
Post by: FrodeMk3 on November 18, 2007, 04:31:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
Here whats happen couple months ago in Afghanistan

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/international/general/view.bg?articleid=1044720

Sad story, special how they treat those soldiers back home....

Can someone enlight me what wold happen if that will be US not Polish Soldiers involved in this kind of accident?

And what the story about Geneva convention  not apply US soldiers?

its not a flame bait, im just curious about procedure.


Ramzey, if they came in and just started shooting people, Not knowing who was a Taliban and who wasn't, then yes, it's sad (that it happened) and U.S. soldiers' are not exempt.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: texasmom on November 18, 2007, 04:32:43 PM
(and.... after a few bites... comes the return for the pounce onto the true purpose of the post)
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: AKIron on November 18, 2007, 04:43:29 PM
US soldiers have been prosecuted and imprisoned for ridiculing Iraqi prisoners so if you're implying US soldiers are held to a lower standard ramzey, give us a break.
Title: Re: Re: Civilian casulties
Post by: ramzey on November 18, 2007, 06:31:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Ramzey, if they came in and just started shooting people, Not knowing who was a Taliban and who wasn't, then yes, it's sad (that it happened) and U.S. soldiers' are not exempt.


They are handcuffed in  front of their families and press by SWAT (as they did to Poles ) or there is other procedure  for that?

Also, is there whole unit be responsible of just commander of unit who give order to fire.
This is not a case  "execution case" but more like wrong target recognition case, i think

Also what is this exempt from Geneva/ Haga convention about?.
US soldiers can be prosecuted only under US military court or there is more about US not signing this conventions?
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Rino on November 18, 2007, 11:19:18 PM
disdain he holds for his "neighbors">
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: texasmom on November 19, 2007, 12:09:50 AM
bingo. had ya pegged, didn't I Ramzy? :p
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: ramzey on November 19, 2007, 12:29:29 AM
no

its not about hate

its about how to fights with someone who claim American soldiers can walk around and shoot people without consequences.
Its about education others who have wrong impression about US soldiers.

pity, there is no help from you guys to give me arguments to fight  with that opinion

but if you don't care about good name of US justice system and US army why  should i?

for sure its easier to be rude  smartprettythang texasmom
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 03:53:08 AM
The US armed forces are above international laws like the Geneva Conventions. While US soldiers are subject to US military law, no US soldier has ever stood trial for war crimes in the US, or faced an international war crimes tribunal. This is not likely to change in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Civilian casulties
Post by: Tumor on November 19, 2007, 04:12:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey

They are handcuffed in  front of their families and press by SWAT (as they did to Poles ) or there is other procedure  for that?

SWAT?

Also, is there whole unit be responsible of just commander of unit who give order to fire.

Simply put, U.S. servicemen are not authorized to carry out unlawful orders... in doing so they are just as guilty as whoever gave the order.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Phaser11 on November 19, 2007, 06:52:08 AM
Can someone enlighten me what would happen if that will be US not Polish Soldiers involved in this kind of accident?

The US soldiers would be tried under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice and punished accordingly if found guilty. These soldiers in Poland are not being tried by the UN proper, they will be tried by there own people using the charges violated within the Geneva Convention.
 There are circumstances where the Haig will set up a trial for war crimes, but most of the time, the group that handles war crimes will monitor the trials and not get involved unless there is a blatant attempt to not follow the punishment rules.

And what the story about Geneva convention not apply US soldiers?
 
This is absolute crap. We are trained over and over about the Geneva Convention and the Law of Armed Conflict and must follow those laws of face punishment. Who ever gave you this information is just bashing ignore them.

As with all things it is also dependent on the group running the Geneva Convention (for the lack of a better term) as who they will look at to be punished.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 07:19:46 AM
The Geneva Conventions do not apply to US soldiers because the US does not recognize any international courts. Only a tribunal or court set up or approved by the UN can actually try someone for violating the GC. That the US military has incorporated most or all of the Geneva Conventions in their military law does not change the fact that they are above the Geneva Conventions. The difference being if you are tried and found guilty of war crimes in a UN tribunal you are officially a war criminal. That is something the US armed forces does not like to have on its record. So even if your forces (individuals or small groups) have committed heinous atrocities and war crimes in just about every war you have fought ... not one US solder has ever been convicted of a war crime, just violations of US law. Kind of like what the Catholic Church is doing with child molesting priests ... deal with it "in house".

There are no US war criminals.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: lazs2 on November 19, 2007, 08:05:34 AM
No.. we do not recognize the corrupt UN world court.. we have a higher standard than that.

And just who has stood trial for war crimes in your UN world court?

lazs
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 08:59:32 AM
The list is inclomplete, but it's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convicted_war_criminals
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Phaser11 on November 19, 2007, 09:06:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
The list is inclomplete, but it's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convicted_war_criminals


Oh ya, Just add who you want to the list. I'm adding Hanoi Jane.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: KgB on November 19, 2007, 09:29:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
How is that not flame-baiting?

Soldiers who aren't from the US don't do anything... but you ask... yeah, but if these were our guys, why wouldn't they get into trouble.. automatically assuming that they'd get a pass.

Please, don't even act like it ain't a troll here.  Pffft.


You right,its un-aAmerican.
You know what, he hates America,and he's never read the Bible.


P.S.He might be gay.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 11:06:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Phaser11
Oh ya, Just add who you want to the list. I'm adding Hanoi Jane.


You dispute any names on that list? ... Didn't think so.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 19, 2007, 11:14:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
The list is inclomplete, but it's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convicted_war_criminals


It's missing Stalin and Che Guevera.  But we're not really expecting the UN to even consider trying socialists, are we?
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 11:17:57 AM
You just sound paranoid. Tell me what is Nazi short for?
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: john9001 on November 19, 2007, 11:52:26 AM
nazi=National Socialist German Workers Party.

that's SOCIALIST, for the slow learners.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 19, 2007, 11:52:56 AM
And you sound like you're ignorant of History.  But don't worry, that's expected of communists.  Just look at boroda.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Phaser11 on November 19, 2007, 12:24:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
You dispute any names on that list? ... Didn't think so.


Ahh not yet, It will not take time to check each name in a databaes that anyone can add names to, you can bet your bippy there are some from leftwing wacos that are not real.

Do you not dispute any of the names on that list? ...Thought so.(Your blinders are on snug.)
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 01:22:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
nazi=National Socialist German Workers Party.

that's SOCIALIST, for the slow learners.


Bingo! :aok
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 01:24:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Phaser11
Ahh not yet, It will not take time to check each name in a databaes that anyone can add names to, you can bet your bippy there are some from leftwing wacos that are not real.

Do you not dispute any of the names on that list? ...Thought so.(Your blinders are on snug.)



Just find one. That's not too much to ask for is it? Or do you actually believe that no one has ever been convicted of war crimes? :lol
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Phaser11 on November 19, 2007, 01:26:02 PM
Read it again.:rolleyes:
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: SIG220 on November 19, 2007, 01:32:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
How is that not flame-baiting?

Soldiers who aren't from the US don't do anything...


You can say that again.  

The cowardly 370 Dutch soldiers in Srebrenica, Bosnia back in July of 1995 just gave up and handed over all of the Muslim Bosnians civilians that they were protecting to the Serb war criminal Ratko Mladic, who then massacred over 8,000 of them, including many old men and young boys.

Their military is so clueless, that they actually gave the men who served in Srebrenica an award last year for their service!!!

If nuclear weapons did not exist, Russia could easily conquer all of Western Europe in a heartbeat today.  The Germans are the only nation that could put up any decent sort of conventional fight.

Lance
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: lasersailor184 on November 19, 2007, 01:39:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Bingo! :aok


I could start calling you Susy.  Besides your liberal tendencies, that does not mean you're a girl.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 01:47:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Phaser11
Read it again.:rolleyes:


Read what again?
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 01:51:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I could start calling you Susy.  Besides your liberal tendencies, that does not mean you're a girl.


True, but that does not change the fact that the Nazis were socialists. The Nazi economy was almost communist in nature; the only thing they didn't do was confiscate all private property ... they just told you what you could produce, or you would be replaced as the head of your own company.

If you think the Nazis were "right-wing" you've been listening to your socialist teachers again.
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 01:53:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SIG220
You can say that again.  

The cowardly 370 Dutch soldiers in Srebrenica, Bosnia back in July of 1995 just gave up and handed over all of the Muslim Bosnians civilians that they were protecting to the Serb war criminal Ratko Mladic, who then massacred over 8,000 of them, including many old men and young boys.

Their military is so clueless, that they actually gave the men who served in Srebrenica an award last year for their service!!!

If nuclear weapons did not exist, Russia could easily conquer all of Western Europe in a heartbeat today.  The Germans are the only nation that could put up any decent sort of conventional fight.

Lance


Wow! Talk about stinky bait! :lol
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Swoop on November 19, 2007, 02:33:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
Let's just skip through the 2 or 3 additional pages of posts here that you're going to make which will be incoherant, and get to the intended purpose of your initial post. ;)


2 or 3?

You'll be lucky......

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Viking on November 19, 2007, 03:47:00 PM
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance."

Hillary Clin... no, wait! It's Adolf Hitler! :aok
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: KgB on November 19, 2007, 03:58:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I could start calling you Susy.  Besides your liberal tendencies, that does not mean you're a girl.

I wonder whats conservative tendency-religion and pedophilia?
Title: Civilian casulties
Post by: Rich46yo on November 19, 2007, 04:07:05 PM
Both Hitler and Stlalin hated labor unions or any kind of organized labor groups. So in that regard both were socialists economically. Hitler on the other hand had no problem both making friends with, and enriching, the German economic elite. Actually the economic giants of German industry got along quite well with Hitler.

                          Hitler knew when to "get along and appease" and "when to crush without mercy". Old money was pretty safe with the Nazis as long as it wasn't  Jewish old money.

                           At the same time the Nazis were far more generous with their workers then Stalin ever was. Their conditions were far better, were paid better, and were allowed state paid vacations. Hitler just didnt want them having any political power. Not even the power to quit and look for a new job.