Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: stephen on November 18, 2007, 10:24:02 PM
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I refuse to accept the fact that we have only one perk ride that is a bomber, so i suggest that we pull together to pressure HT and crew to add a REASONABLE bombr/perk to the game to make those b24 runs worthwhile, and bring a perky bomber to this game that makes a little sense...:aok
PS, B29 is out of the question off course unless its massivly perked so lets get somthing in here worth our time....
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Originally posted by stephen
I refuse to accept the fact that we have only one perk ride that is a bomber, so i suggest that we pull together to pressure HT and crew to add a REASONABLE bombr/perk to the game to make those b24 runs worthwhile, and bring a perky bomber to this game that makes a little sense...:aok
PS, B29 is out of the question off course unless its massivly perked so lets get somthing in here worth our time....
Ok, #1: They will not be adding another aircraft for atleast 4-5 months, so stop your whinin' already.
#2: Don't pressure/Say/Do anything to HTC. A PNG and most likely a ban will result in that.
#3: Although I agree B-26 should be added, There really is no reason to perk it.
#4: If we get any sort of bomber next it will NOT be an american one. Other countries need planes to ya' know.
#5: Accept the fact that the Arado 234 is the only perked bomber in the game.
Wow,
Subway
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Pyro has mentioned the A-26 as a future perk bomber, FYI.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Pyro has mentioned the A-26 as a future perk bomber, FYI.
Why have it perked though? I don't know much about the A-26... I just didn't think of it as a perk bomber.
Regards,
Subway
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It was very good. It was good enough that not only was it still in service for Vietnam, they actually resumed production for the Vietnam war.
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Originally posted by Karnak
It was very good. It was good enough that not only was it still in service for Vietnam, they actually resumed production for the Vietnam war.
Not really. They refurbished and updated some birds into B26Ks.
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A26 is pretty close to a hvy fighter/ light bomber. More manevable then b26 and has more guns.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Not really. They refurbished and updated some birds into B26Ks.
I had read they actually did new production too. Ah well.
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Player review and request is pretty much what this site is all about, sorry to offend...., but yeh the A-26 was a pretty darn fast ride, and if performance is any gauge of perk value than this aircraft would likly make a wonderful new yet costly addition.
While I agree that the B-25 was over-do by a few years, I feel an injustice has been done the bomberloving community,in that there is no bomber worth the perks to fly......
The Arado is a nice diversion every once in a while, but lacks real adaptive killing power in a game where 3 bombs just doesnt cut it.:cry
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All of the most important allied bombers of the war, we have modeled. The only bombers that we need now, before we get some of the much over-do fighters (I16, MiG's, Yak's, P39, G55, etc) are the Pe-2 and Tu-2.
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I have no problem with perking the A-26 as long as it isn't perked heavily. It just didn't have the impact to justify a heavy perk, and wouldnt in the game. The A-26 in WW-ll was a pretty lost bomber always looking for a mission.
I suspect in AH it will have more success then it had in actual life. In AH it will probably be used more as a "bomber-killer" then a "bomber".
Perked heavily it would end up a Queen. It wasnt as fast as a Mossie, didn't have the bombload of a B-26, and was defensively armed about as good as the B-25. I love flying the mediums so Im all for it but not with a heavy perk.
I dont see how the A-26 outguns the Marauder. It may have a few more guns in the nose but the B-26 has waist guns and a tail gun, as well as a chin gun. How to defeat the A-26?? Either side attacks or rapid climb attacks. Hitting a fighter climbing quickly with a ventral turret, with a tail turret, is very difficult. I just dont see defending the A-26 as being easier then it is a B-26. Forget the nose guns unless for strafing, or unless a noob HOs you. Im assuming it will turn about as good as the A-20 correct?
Its best defense would be its speed. Its "speed" would put fighters into making decisions of either pursuing a poor angle of attack or breaking off.
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Speed and altitude are the best defenses. If the fighter can't get into a good position to shoot you down, then you don't need as many guns to effectively deal with them.
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Originally posted by SuBWaYCH
#2: Don't pressure/Say/Do anything to HTC. A PNG and most likely a ban will result in that.
Yes Sir Captain Obvious.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
I dont see how the A-26 outguns the Marauder. It may have a few more guns in the nose but the B-26 has waist guns and a tail gun, as well as a chin gun. How to defeat the A-26?? Either side attacks or rapid climb attacks. Hitting a fighter climbing quickly with a ventral turret, with a tail turret, is very difficult. I just dont see defending the A-26 as being easier then it is a B-26. Forget the nose guns unless for strafing, or unless a noob HOs you. Im assuming it will turn about as good as the A-20 correct?
Tell ya what. Try and shoot down humble in an A-20. Then just imagine trying to shoot him down with a better version of said AC.
I see a light perk for this AC.
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Originally posted by TUXC
Speed and altitude are the best defenses. If the fighter can't get into a good position to shoot you down, then you don't need as many guns to effectively deal with them.
Tell that to the 10 Boston-lll bombers which die for every one fighter shot down. While speed and alt are very important they arent everything. There are a lot of fighter sticks who will take the time to run you down and then its going to come down to a gunfight.
Overall however I'd say the A-26b would have enough speed and guns to justify a light perk but not a heavy one. Maybe 1/2 that of the AR-234. It would be an interesting addition to AH "bomberwise" and about the only one I have more interest in, medium bomber-wise, is the TU-2.
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Good point on the Bostons, though I'm willing to bet that most of those Bostons were below 10k when then died. Even Ar234s become vulnerable when they get low enough.
So imagine something with the speed of a Boston with 4x0.5"MGs that cover the rear hemisphere. Now you have an A-26. There's no way it would justify anywhere near the number of perks the Ar234 has, just enough to give people a reason to fly the other twin engine bombers and attack planes so you don't see the sky filled with Invaders.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
I have no problem with perking the A-26 as long as it isn't perked heavily. It just didn't have the impact to justify a heavy perk, and wouldnt in the game. The A-26 in WW-ll was a pretty lost bomber always looking for a mission.
I suspect in AH it will have more success then it had in actual life. In AH it will probably be used more as a "bomber-killer" then a "bomber".
Perked heavily it would end up a Queen. It wasnt as fast as a Mossie, didn't have the bombload of a B-26, and was defensively armed about as good as the B-25. I love flying the mediums so Im all for it but not with a heavy perk.
I dont see how the A-26 outguns the Marauder. It may have a few more guns in the nose but the B-26 has waist guns and a tail gun, as well as a chin gun. How to defeat the A-26?? Either side attacks or rapid climb attacks. Hitting a fighter climbing quickly with a ventral turret, with a tail turret, is very difficult. I just dont see defending the A-26 as being easier then it is a B-26. Forget the nose guns unless for strafing, or unless a noob HOs you. Im assuming it will turn about as good as the A-20 correct?
Its best defense would be its speed. Its "speed" would put fighters into making decisions of either pursuing a poor angle of attack or breaking off.
1st the A-26 (and the A-20G) are not bombers. They also are not bombers modified as "strafers" like the B-25. They are really an early attempt at the "strike fighter" concept IMO before the technology existed. The A-20 is much more nimble and responsive then any other bomber and its pilots actually loved its ability to "dogfight". The A-20G we have is actually much more of a true attack plane then a bomber...think of it as an early skyraider or such...
I have no reason to argue the weaknesses in the control surface and wing structure. Those are the only things that keep the A-20 from being competative with any fighter in the game. An A-20 with the control surface/wing "integrity" of a P-38 would be formidable as long as it had air to play with.
The A-26 actually had a better then 1 to 1 K/D ratio in the ETO. Speed would not be an issue, the A-20 is more then fast enough. The real question would be the ability to withstand G's at high speed and the control surface authority at those speeds...
Obviously I'd love to see the A-26...but truthfully the A-20 fills the niche quite nicely and other true bombers are needed more. The A-20 was basically the US equivelent of the IL-2. It's a close support attack plane...not a bomber or fighter. It is however a suprisingly good air to air plane as well.
Now the boston is as manuevable but has the glass nose and bombsite as well as the .303's up front. But a well flown Boston will make you sweat a bit also.
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From what I can find the A-26 has a maximum dive speed of 425 mph. If this is the high G # then its about 30 or 35 MPH above the a-20 which can pop wings under 400 at high G's. I can dive the A-20 to about the same speed if I'm well trimmed and have shallowed the dive angle. Any real control input over 410 will shed stuff. So if the A-26 is fully manueverable to 425 and requires finess up till 450 or so {just throwing a number out} then it would be a formidable step up over the a-20 as an E fighter.
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Originally posted by SuBWaYCH
Ok, #1: They will not be adding another aircraft for atleast 4-5 months, so stop your whinin' already.
#2: Don't pressure/Say/Do anything to HTC. A PNG and most likely a ban will result in that.
#3: Although I agree A-26 should be added, There really is no reason to perk it.
#4: If we get any sort of bomber next it will NOT be an american one. Other countries need planes to ya' know.
#5: Accept the fact that the Arado 234 is the only perked bomber in the game.
Wow,
Subway
I sort of disagree with much that has been said in this thread. To me, the game should focus on the planes that played actually significant roles in the war. Both the Arado 234 and the Me 163 were insignificant planes that had no real impact on the war. I personally don't see any reason to have either of them, if one wants to replay real history.
To me, the Me 163 actually harms the game, as it clearly flies much better in Aces High II than it did in real life. These planes were never ever able to maneuver that well, or engage multiple aircraft in the actual war. In fact, they had no throttle you could even control. By all historical accounts, the plane was an absolute failure. But here in the game, it plays a major role in combating high flying bombers.
It is a shame that fighter pilots have so many perk planes to choose from, yet all us buff pilots have is the Arado 234.
To me, the bomber that should be added as a perk plane is clearly the B-29 This bomber played a huge role in the last several months of the war in defeating Japan.
The A-26 would be nice to have too. But I would say the B-29 deserves to be added before it is, due to its much greater role in the war.
That said, the game already has way more planes than any person is capable of mastering. And certainly the most significant ones are already represented.
If I could have one wish, it would be to actually remove the Me 163. That would make life for Buff pilots much more fair.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by SIG220
If I could have one wish, it would be to actually remove the Me 163.
Lol. If they ever add a perked B-29 will the bomber pilots quit complaining about the 163s that are everywhere? ;)
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Sorry there Sig, but the B-29 wouldnt be a good choice. Given the current limit on bomb pounds per plane and my understanding that they wont make one heavier than the lancaster, the B-29 is out. Add that to all the idiots who'd then demand the ability to drop a "nook" out of it.
I think the Invader would fit quite nicely into AH2. Id sure as hell fly it. Of course Ive posted wishlists with great plane choices as well, but I somehow missed the invader.
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They've never said they won't make one heavier than the Lanc. The B-29 is used as an example of a possible perk unit in their description of the perk system.
What they said is they won't make a bomb heavier than the 4k 'cookie' the Lanc carries. But that doesn't stop the B-29 from carrying ten 2,000lb bombs, or twenty 1,000lb bombs or forty 500lb bombs, or some combo thereof.
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Originally posted by SIG220
To me, the Me 163 actually harms the game,
A plane that usually has only 0.5% of all kills?
Originally posted by SIG220
But here in the game, it plays a major role in combating high flying bombers.
No it doesn't, because of low number of kills and being available at one base only (and some maps don't even that)
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Originally posted by humble
1st the A-26 (and the A-20G) are not bombers. They also are not bombers modified as "strafers" like the B-25. They are really an early attempt at the "strike fighter" concept IMO before the technology existed. The A-20 is much more nimble and responsive then any other bomber and its pilots actually loved its ability to "dogfight". The A-20G we have is actually much more of a true attack plane then a bomber...think of it as an early skyraider or such...
I have no reason to argue the weaknesses in the control surface and wing structure. Those are the only things that keep the A-20 from being competitive with any fighter in the game. An A-20 with the control surface/wing "integrity" of a P-38 would be formidable as long as it had air to play with.
The A-26 actually had a better then 1 to 1 K/D ratio in the ETO. Speed would not be an issue, the A-20 is more then fast enough. The real question would be the ability to withstand G's at high speed and the control surface authority at those speeds...
Obviously I'd love to see the A-26...but truthfully the A-20 fills the niche quite nicely and other true bombers are needed more. The A-20 was basically the US equivelent of the IL-2. It's a close support attack plane...not a bomber or fighter. It is however a suprisingly good air to air plane as well.
Now the boston is as manuevable but has the glass nose and bombsite as well as the .303's up front. But a well flown Boston will make you sweat a bit also.
Anyone who sweats from a Boston on their tail deserves to get shot down. Its true many probably do fly the Boston to low. Its also true that to many fly to many bombers to "low". I fly medium bombers in the 10,000' to 15,000' range, so Im somewhere in the middle.
I call the A-26 a bomber cause it has bomb bays and a bomb sight. At least the "C" Model did, and Im sure the "C" model would be included as well. For the same reasons I call the B-25 a bomber too, even if the bomber "C" model has become an AH hanger Queen.
What other "true bombers" do you have in mind? Except for the B-29 we already have the most effective heavy bombers of the war so what possible heavy addition is worth the sweat of modeling it?
I would say the fast mediums/attack bombers will fill more airspace because they are better suited to the fast pace of the game. Offhand the TU-2 and A-26 are the ones that come to mind quickest. They would have been better choices then the B-25 was.
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The A-26B was the solid nose and the C had the glass nose. My understanding is that the "B" was the original concept with the C being added as a replacement for the B-26 in the level bombing capacity. Can it be used as a bomber....sure. But the real strength of the A-26 is its ability to interdict both ground vehicles and enemy ground attack aircraft.
As for someone behind you in a boston. Well if that person knows how to fly the boston you'll have your hands full if he has a +E state.
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why is the HE-111 so overlooked ,IMO that and the Japanese "Betty" bomber should be done before any other bombers,,for historical and event purposes/reason
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Originally posted by humble
As for someone behind you in a boston. Well if that person knows how to fly the boston you'll have your hands full if he has a +E state.
Rich sorry for what I'm about to say but.........
Humble he has no idea about ACM at all. Unless it had more DEFENSIVE guns , huge bomb load an/or silly fast. It's all but useless to him.
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Originally posted by Lusche
A plane that usually has only 0.5% of all kills?
No it doesn't, because of low number of kills and being available at one base only (and some maps don't even that)
That is an extremely high number of kills, when one considers that the vast majority of fighting is fighter against fighter, and how it can be flown from only one base.
I'm not talking about your typical bombing runs to attack bases and towns. I'm talking about long range high altitude bombing raids deep to the heart of the enemy land. Such strategic bombing was what a lot of the Air War was all about in the war. So if you actually want to replay a major part of history, the Me-163 really makes the entire scenario historically inaccurate.
And besides, as I noted, the computer model here gives the plane many abilities that it did not have have in the real world.
So I don't consider your arguments to be at all valid.
Bomber pilots do not like the Me-163. Period. I would settle for just the perk points being increased significantly. They are currently quite low, in my opinion.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by 1redrum
why is the HE-111 so overlooked ,IMO that and the Japanese "Betty" bomber should be done before any other bombers,,for historical and event purposes/reason
That is a very valid point that you raise. The bomber support in the game already has an allied bias to it. And adding the B-29 first would make that even more pronounced.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by SIG220
So if you actually want to replay a major part of history, the Me-163 really makes the entire scenario historically inaccurate.
So I don't consider your arguments to be at all valid.
Ever noticed that the whole Main Arenas and planes usage there isn't historical accurate in any way?
:rolleyes:
If you want to replay a major part of history, the AvA, & SEA arenas are the place to go. These arenas and the events there strive for historical accuracy of that kind (in varying degrees)
BTW, on most maps you can easily do long range strat runs without running into lots of 163's - careful planning is the key.
Originally posted by SIG220
That is an extremely high number of kills, when one considers that the vast majority of fighting is fighter against fighter, and how it can be flown from only one base.
Last Tour, Me 163s were responsible for 226 B-24 kills. That's only 1.3% out of all 16788 B-24 deaths by enemy action in LW Arena. (At same time, B24's managed to kill 49 Me163's)
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Originally posted by humble
1st the A-26 (and the A-20G) are not bombers. They also are not bombers modified as "strafers" like the B-25. They are really an early attempt at the "strike fighter" concept IMO before the technology existed. The A-20 is much more nimble and responsive then any other bomber and its pilots actually loved its ability to "dogfight". The A-20G we have is actually much more of a true attack plane then a bomber...think of it as an early skyraider or such...
I have to agree with you here. Does this look like a bomber???
(http://www.a-26legacy.org/images/A26nose.JPG)
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Originally posted by Bronk
Rich sorry for what I'm about to say but.........
Humble he has no idea about ACM at all. Unless it had more DEFENSIVE guns , huge bomb load an/or silly fast. It's all but useless to him.
Bronk, Im sorry about what im about to say but you are an idiot. So much of an idiot that Im going to put you on ignore. Really, Im tired of you, you you, you, "fluffer".
Humble I understand the two different versions of the A-26. Read my post again and you'll see I understand. Actually the aircraft had many versions of it as it was a pretty successful design of a solid concept.
The thing was we didn't really need it in WW-ll and it had a fairly uneventful service history. No matter how you colored it the A-26 was still dropping dumb bombs and strafing with 0.50s just like the P-47, the 51, the A-20, and a host of other airplanes that were winning the war without the A-26.
A B-17 or 24 can build energy in a dive and take out enemy fighters. Isaac Newton figured all that out hundreds of years ago and I dont need anyone to point it out to me. The real question is, "who takes out Bostons in order E-fight fighters"? And, "why would you do that"? And not just that but whoever is actually doing it isn't doing very well cause the thing has an atrocious kill/death score of like 10 to 1.
The nit-wit I put on ignore is just a troublemaker but I will answer for you as you seem a gentleman. I lean towards bombers with good "all around everythings". Thats good speed, good bombloads, good defensive fire...ect I guess you can say Im like 99% of the players in this game.
In my opinion the A-26 would be a "good all around" and I'm all for it. The Boston, on the other hand, is a dog. Tho I suppose it has some small charm as a fighter wannabe. Personaly I would just fly fighters.
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Originally posted by SIG220
I have to agree with you here. Does this look like a bomber???
(http://www.a-26legacy.org/images/A26nose.JPG)
Yes.
Your all saying its a 'strike fighter, not a bomber', though. By that logic, wouldnt it feed off... fighter perks? And if its a bomber, Rich's 'defensive guns or speed' arguement works too. So get off his back.
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Lets start with the A-20...
It is 32/32 vs the P-38 this tour overall...its 52/85 vs the La-7 and 62/115 vs the P-51D...
Now if we look at the Boston its K/D is over 8 to 1...but the vast majority are to late war planes...not its contemporaries.
The boston is actually very capable in an air to air role but its rarely flown that way. I'm 52 and 32 in the A-20 in the LWA's this tour flying it primarity as a fighter.
If I flew the boston in the EWA I'd probably to the about the same...
The A-20 is one of the best E platforms in the game...and is a fun bird to fly..
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Originally posted by humble
Lets start with the A-20...
It is 32/32 vs the P-38 this tour overall...its 52/85 vs the La-7 and 62/115 vs the P-51D...
Now if we look at the Boston its K/D is over 8 to 1...but the vast majority are to late war planes...not its contemporaries.
The boston is actually very capable in an air to air role but its rarely flown that way. I'm 52 and 32 in the A-20 in the LWA's this tour flying it primarity as a fighter.
If I flew the boston in the EWA I'd probably to the about the same...
The A-20 is one of the best E platforms in the game...and is a fun bird to fly..
A-20??? Very good airplane. And probably under-rated. The thing is just a killer, lets face it.
Some guys like the Boston and more power to them. The thing is with KI-67s and B-26s I dont really start to worry until I see 4 or more cons coming in. 3 I have a good chance of fighting off, 2 I'll just flat out beat, and one Im not even worried about. Depending who it is of course.
But, thats what I do. I drop bombs and shoot down fighters out my rear end. Ive taken Bostons up and they just dont suit my game play. The bomb-load is unimpressive, the defensive gunnery sucks and the coverage is bad.. Yes it is fast and some very good sticks I respect like the aircraft. So.......enjoy dude.
Maybe Im missing something. The A-26b and "C" would be pretty cool tho. As would the TU-2. There are voices for other bombers I know but AH should really spend all that time modeling a bomber people will actually fly. The Betty is interesting, the thought of a 20mm in the tail does fascinate, but will guys actually fly the thing? When the B-26 is so superior in every way???
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With all due respect, SIG, I disagree with much of what you said about the ME-163...
1.) According to the pilots quotes that I've read, the 163 was a nimble delight to fly at all speeds. (e.g., Rudy Opitz)
2.) Although it certainly took considerable skill, some RL pilots were able to adapt to the much, much faster pace of rocket combat and score multiple-kill sorties (e.g., Siegfried Schubert)
3.) The ME-163B had a five-position throttle: off, ground idle, flight idle, cruise, maximum power.
4.) Not "all historical accounts" call the plane an "absolute failure".
5.) In AH, the 163 is only available from a single base, deep in the rear area. Because of its very short range, it can only reach bombers that come near to the HQ. Now, if we had much larger, more accurately-scaled arena maps... ;)
Originally posted by SIG220
I sort of disagree with much that has been said in this thread. To me, the game should focus on the planes that played actually significant roles in the war. Both the Arado 234 and the Me 163 were insignificant planes that had no real impact on the war. I personally don't see any reason to have either of them, if one wants to replay real history.
To me, the Me 163 actually harms the game, as it clearly flies much better in Aces High II than it did in real life. These planes were never ever able to maneuver that well, or engage multiple aircraft in the actual war. In fact, they had no throttle you could even control. By all historical accounts, the plane was an absolute failure. But here in the game, it plays a major role in combating high flying bombers.
It is a shame that fighter pilots have so many perk planes to choose from, yet all us buff pilots have is the Arado 234.
To me, the bomber that should be added as a perk plane is clearly the B-29 This bomber played a huge role in the last several months of the war in defeating Japan.
The A-26 would be nice to have too. But I would say the B-29 deserves to be added before it is, due to its much greater role in the war.
That said, the game already has way more planes than any person is capable of mastering. And certainly the most significant ones are already represented.
If I could have one wish, it would be to actually remove the Me 163. That would make life for Buff pilots much more fair.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by SIG220
I have to agree with you here. Does this look like a bomber???
(http://www.a-26legacy.org/images/A26nose.JPG)
Funny thing, the A-26 is totally outclassed by all late war planes. Only the foolish, unwary or down right stupid fighter pilot will find themselves in trouble against an A-26.
ack-ack
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Actually I dont think thats an accurate statement at all ack-ack. The A-20 is quite capable vs anything in the latewar set. Obviously until handling issues are known its pure speculation but the A-26 will handily outzoom anything in the game if it can actually pull G's at 425 safely. A-20 is very capable of beating a 38, pony, jug or 109 if its got enough alt to play with.
No question that a well flown late war bird has the advantage, but not an insurmountable one.
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Originally posted by humble
Actually I dont think thats an accurate statement at all ack-ack. The A-20 is quite capable vs anything in the latewar set. Obviously until handling issues are known its pure speculation but the A-26 will handily outzoom anything in the game if it can actually pull G's at 425 safely. A-20 is very capable of beating a 38, pony, jug or 109 if its got enough alt to play with.
No question that a well flown late war bird has the advantage, but not an insurmountable one.
Put in a pilot of similiar experience in an A-20 and a P-38J/L and the J/L driver will win. Why? Because the Lightning pilot will use the strengths of his plane to easily over come whatever strengths the A-20 has when it comes to dogfighting.
The only time an experienced pilot will lose to an A-20 is if he's not paying attention and gets bounced by an A-20 or does something else stupid. In short, the P-38 driver isn't going to lose because his plane was out performed by an A-20 but rather because the Lightning driver did something stupid.
A-26 will not out zoom fighters like the P-38J/L or Ki-84.
ack-ack
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The A-20 outzooms the 38 under most conditions. It simply cant get much over 400 so the 38 has a distinct edge in that regard. But in a mid range E fight the A-20 will hang with the 38 very well. If the A-26 can really handle higher speeds it'll easily keep up with a 38.
Looking at the last few tours I was 7-2 vs the L last tour and am 5-0 this one in the A-20. I was 4-2 vs the J last tour....so overall I'm 16-4 vs all 38's over the current and last tour.
If you look overall the A-20 has (as of last night) a 1 to 1 K/D vs the L across the board.
Checking tour 92 I was 6-2 vs the L. I actually get killed more by 38's in other planes then the A-20. Tough to break it all out since I fly other stuff but A-20 hops have been the majority of my MA sorties for 4-5 months now.
If I go back to tour 88 the bulk of my sorties were in A-20's
During that tour I was was 11-0 vs the J and 5-0 vs the L I had 3 38G kills and and 1 recorded A-20 death to the G. No kills on me in anything from the L or J.
The A-20 certainly has weaknesses that a good pilot can exploit, but so do most planes. Is the A-20 equal to any of the fighters in the game...no. BUT the A-20 can be flown successfully against any fighter in the game to a suprising degree a majority of the time.
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If it has a bomb bay then its a bomber. Most of all if it also allows for level bombing with a Norden. Since the A-26c has both then the A-26 is a bomber. At the same time its a wonderful hybrid of both attack and bomber. As the A-20 is.
Im starting to get a lot of enthusiasm to see the A-26 in this game.
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A-20G, A-26A and Mosquito FB.Mk VI are all attack planes that can be pressed into service as fighters, but they are not ideal for it and fight from a disadvantage.
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Originally posted by humble
The A-20 outzooms the 38 under most conditions.
Our fight this afternoon showed your statement to be incorrect. Even with your altitude and energy advantage I was able to out zoom your A-20 at will and kept the fight in the vertical where your plane had no chance whatsoever.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Karnak
A-20G, A-26A and Mosquito FB.Mk VI are all attack planes that can be pressed into service as fighters, but they are not ideal for it and fight from a disadvantage.
The Mossie is the one airplane in the game that scares me. I aint kidding, I'd rather see a 262 coming at my bombers.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Tell ya what. Try and shoot down humble in an A-20. Then just imagine trying to shoot him down with a better version of said AC.
I see a light perk for this AC.
i got lucky and did that, once and yes he saw me coming dont know if it counts i was in a la la and climbed up from under him had my flaps full out took my shot and went into a spin later died to a temp.
humbles good his films insipred me to try the a20 its pretty sweet i got a couple of kills in it none landed though. even though its fun to fly it would be an ocasional thing for me.
as far as bombers go i fly only lancs and b26.
lancasters when i want to hit big or hit strats and 26 when i dont want to waste a lot of time climbing out and in transit. lol the other night i actualy let planes catch up to me in b26 so i could shoot them down.
ive flown the arado i personaly don't like it. seemed like a waste of time for me cause i ocasionaly like to be attacked when flying buffs but to be sure im gonna have a ton of alt to start with.
btw i try to land every bomber sortie i take out so i usualy climb to 15-20+k in lancs and 10-15 i b26.
still one of my fave things to do is stuka runs thats fun for me.
there is only one plane i have not flown in ma and that's the 262 havent had enough perks yet. i would love another perk bomber or at least a couple of eny5 bombers.
i agree with most though that we have enough american planes for now.
i will say this i will not call anyone stupid because of the plane they like to fly if they want to have fun and thats the way they want to do it good for them.
{a good pilot can take a retarded plane to the limits.
or is that a retarded pilot can be taken to the limit by his plane lol}
i experience a lot of the latter.....:D :D :aok
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Our fight this afternoon showed your statement to be incorrect. Even with your altitude and energy advantage I was able to out zoom your A-20 at will and kept the fight in the vertical where your plane had no chance whatsoever.
ack-ack
1st....
alt and E were just about even...within a few hundred feet and a couple mph.
2nd...
I was in a boston with 100% fuel...not an A-20.
3rd...
On the 2nd pass you wiffed completely...didnt put a single round in me and left yourself open. The Boston handles a bit more sluggishly then the A-20 and lacks the control surface authority. That was actually my 1st flight in the boston vs the A-20. No question that I needed to push the nose down there at the end in boston...A-20 had a much much better chance of capitalizing there...
To me that illustrates exactly what the realities are...you pushed the fight got good hits on the initial attack and then wiffed the 2nd and left an opening. I spun the boston a bit and scrubbed off to much E...
If you look at the film (i'll put it up as soon as I can) you can see the boston "lock up" on the initial merge then "snap" to a more vertical orientation. I had to bail on the merge at 400 (one of the real issues with the a-20/boston) but the lockup at that speed suprised me totally and left me wide open to you. On the 2nd pass you can see the wobble then spin...control authority seems very inferior to the A-20 overall.
If we go to the endgame the boston really seemed to hit the wall very quicky. I dont know if this is due to control input, weight or the less powerful engines/lack of wep. Once it topped out it was much more sluggish again then the A-20...
None of that is ment to take anything away from a good kill....just trying to articulate the both the differences and the fact that it was a potentially much closer fight then you thought.
I flew 3 hops in the boston and will post them here for any who are interested. My initial thoughts are as follows...
Leaving the gun package aside...
The Boston is actually much more limited then I would have thought in "usuable flight envelope"
It seems to suffer significant "lock up" at speeds approaching 400. This is significantly beyond the "negative" elevator authority that the A-20 has at high speed and extends to the airleons as well. This makes the 370-400 speed band much less usable.
It also seems to have controls that are less "harmonized" {hope i'm saying that right}...at 275-370 it simply wasnt as smooth overall and seemed to bleed more E and be more suseptable to unwanted stall of a wingtip then the A-20.
All that being said it still handled itself reasonably well in a mini furball but the combination of the 303's and the more limited usable flight envelope made it tougher to fight well.
The overall differences between the A-20 and Boston are much more significant then i'd have thought at both edges of the flight envelope. This makes the plane a much tougher bird to truely dogfight in a 1 vs 1 (as the clip with ack ack will show. The boston just cant capitalize readily on any opening that might arise. It's also more lacking as an E fighter and has a tough time capitalizing on positional advantage. It simply locks up to much at "lower" speeds....but is still a fun bird to fight overall....
Hopefully I'll have films up tonight...
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Some Boston Clips (http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/Boston)
The 1st one is the "fight" ack-ack commented on....
I didnt have E (was a few hundred feet higher) but the G limitations forced me me to level. I dont know if the initial slughishness was all fuel or a bit of compression but the thing seemed a bit stuck in a shallow curve at about 390 before "snapping" to a more verical line a bit late. All in all similiar to the way the A-20 flies but significantly less E and much less control authority. None of which is ment to be an excuse etc....
the other 3 clips are from 2 sorties...I actually ran out of gas on both in the middle of "mini-furballs". I got a bit better feel as things went on and the boston is certainly reasonably capable...but within a narrower envelope then the A-20.
Overall its much less formidable since its less comfortable in the higher end of the envelope and doesnt really "float" as well at the lower extreme. Clips 2 and 4 are a decent primer on E fighting in a mini furball enviornment. I had to fly from "our" base thru our V base to the bad guys (who were trying to take V base. They had numbers but fight was more toward there base...so I started out with a bit of alt/e both sorties.