Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: PanosGR on November 20, 2007, 09:37:09 AM
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The incident happened between Turkish F-16 and Greek Mirage 2000 probably on 31 October. The Turkish F-16 launched in BVR conditions one AIM-120B AMRAAM against the Greek aircraft. The missile missed. The assumption is that the self protection system of Mirage 2000 the ICMS Mk I, enabled his powerful jammer, which has practically blind, so the radar of the F-16, APG-68 as probably the active seeker of the missile itself. In response to this a Greek Mirage fired in BVR conditions as well one S-530D which probably missed also. The incident was kept secret by both sides. The engagement published today in the Greek press. The official position of the Hellenic Air Force has not yet been made known. The incident probably related to the signing of the Agreement of the natural gas transmission pipeline from the Caspian Sea to Italy, in the sense that some wanted to postpone this agreement by creating a serious incident between the two countries. The pipeline is linking Turkey-Greece and Italy. The signing of the agreement between the prime ministers of Greece and Turkey, for the part that crosses Turkey and Greece, was held after all, 15 days later on November 16.
(http://[IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/m2000-1.jpg)[/IMG]
Greek Mirage 2000
(http://[IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/M2000_09.jpg)[/IMG]
HAF Mirage 2000EG. Cariies two R-550 IR Magic and two S-530D in the inner pylons. The S-530D is a long range continious wave air to air missile
(http://[IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/f16.jpg)[/IMG]
Greek F-16 Block 52+. Apart from UAE Block 60 there are the most sophisticated and capable F-16s today
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i am no expert, but doesnt that belly shot F16 have a white cover blocking the air intake?
fake picture?
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No as far i know. its the light make some shadow or something. This picture among others were published to the official Lockheed Martin magazine Code One by the famous Japanese aerial photographer Katsuhiko Tokunaga
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actually it looks like both have covers on their intakes...but i think the intake covers are usually red arent they?
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All intake covers and other blanks are Red and have a remove before flight flag attached.
(http://www.stroudsafety.com/Images/Chutes-FlightTagLg.jpg)
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rgr that, just looked a little strange.
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looks like an illusion caused by the fin that sits in the center of the intake, coupled with the white paint job.
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Same goes with this one too but the photos are genuine by all means
(http://[IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/HAF.jpg)[/IMG]
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Looks like some sort of filtering device. In WWll planes that would be flying in North Africa, The PTO and CBI areas used special filtering. This was usually refered to as Tropicalized.
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Wouldn't Turkey and Greece technically be allies? ;)
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Turkey and Greece have been at war for about 3000 years, no winner so far.
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Technically yes :rolleyes: but we usually have "hot" incidents. This incident that im refer to hasnt yet been confirmed by either of the two countries. its today news. Could be just a fiction story could be not. Last year two F-16s collided in the air, during an interception of turkish F-16s over Crete, with result one Greek pilot dead while the turkish one managed to eject.
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Originally posted by leitwolf
Wouldn't Turkey and Greece technically be allies? ;)
Only when the temperature between them rises.
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LMAO
An excellent Thanksgiving Week response :)
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Geez... The inside of the intake is just white in colour...:rolleyes:
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Although US pilots like to think of the AMRAAM as a death stick, it's well known that if you employ it incorrectly then it is no more effective than any other weapon employed incorrectly.
Not that I have any opinion on the validity of the reported incident, but it's way easier to say the other guy's jammer spoofed your missile than to admit that you suck and pooched away your shot.
If the incident in fact occurred, I bet both sides believed the sales brochures that came with their weapons and took bad shots. But that's just my own wild speculative guess based on... well, based on some stuff I've done.
:noid
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I heard (second hand) that if an AMRAAM were jammed, it would then home in on the source of the jamming emission.
Edit: Found a source for that
"The AIM-120 also has a "home-on-jam" guidance mode to counter electronic jamming."
http://www.ewarbirds.org/amraam.html
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Not that I have any opinion on the validity of the reported incident, but it's way easier to say the other guy's jammer spoofed your missile than to admit that you suck and pooched away your shot.
Its not my problem “witch is easier to say or admit”. I dont care.
If a missile strike the target or not, depends on a large number of factors. First, if the target is outgoing, which means punching his rocket and then disengage immediately –witch by the way this is the tactic- is quite difficult for the rocket to hit its target regardless the aircraft has a self protection package or not. The best chance for a missile to reach its target is when this is forthcoming.
I heard (second hand) that if an AMRAAM were jammed, it would then home in on the source of the jamming emission.
This is true. AMRAAM has a HOJ capability. But the jammer, of the French self protection system ICMS has also other modes such as the “deception” mode, which is designed to mislead the upcoming rocket regarding the position of the target and not actually blind it. Now as far it concern the actuall HOJ capabilities its not known the distance at which the HOJ mode can start to lead the rocket to its target. I think that the HOJ starts to employ from the moment that the active seeker of the missile is on. Before that the missile moves inertially with navigational data from the radar of the aircraft. But if the aircraft radar “blinded” by the other’s guys jammer it may not be in position to provide accurate data about the target’s location and therefore for the missile to reach the position where the active seeker or HOJ will employ and guide the AMRAAM in an autonomous operation to its target.
PS
Sorry about my poor English. Im still working on it to improve them.
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Originally posted by PanosGR
Not that I have any opinion on the validity of the reported incident, but it's way easier to say the other guy's jammer spoofed your missile than to admit that you suck and pooched away your shot.
Its not my problem “witch is easier to say or admit”. I dont care.
If a missile strike the target or not, depends on a large number of factors. First, if the target is outgoing, which means punching his rocket and then disengage immediately –witch by the way this is the tactic- is quite difficult for the rocket to hit its target regardless the aircraft has a self protection package or not. The best chance for a missile to reach its target is when this is forthcoming.
Panos, Eagl is an F-15 driver in the USAF. I'm fairly sure he has a little bit better first hand perspective than say, oh, anyone on this board about this subject. I wouldn't dismiss his replies out of hand simply because they disagree with yours.
Z28 FTW!!!
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heh, I was waiting for someone to mention that :-).
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
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I heard Eagl was a bad shot! :)
There are soooo many varients in modern day A/A combat.
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jeez those CFTs turn the prettiest jet fighter into a real minger, yeuuuch :(
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Originally posted by mora
Geez... The inside of the intake is just white in colour...:rolleyes:
Shack
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i am no expert, but doesnt that belly shot F16 have a white cover blocking the air intake?
fake picture?
The white you guys are refering to is just the inside of the air intakes painted white. I've seen then painted white on a ton of F-16's in pictures and also in person.
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Originally posted by eagl
Although US pilots like to think of the AMRAAM as a death stick, it's well known that if you employ it incorrectly then it is no more effective than any other weapon employed incorrectly.
Not that I have any opinion on the validity of the reported incident, but it's way easier to say the other guy's jammer spoofed your missile than to admit that you suck and pooched away your shot.
If the incident in fact occurred, I bet both sides believed the sales brochures that came with their weapons and took bad shots. But that's just my own wild speculative guess based on... well, based on some stuff I've done.
:noid
What's the saying? If they were totally accurate they'd be called hittles, not missiles?