Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Charon on November 21, 2007, 12:00:43 PM
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Talk about "Chicks with Guns" :)
Laetitia Daguenel Laetitia Daguene (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ92zYX827E&feature=related) French IPSC Champion.
Charon
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Hush!
If some Americans realize that Europeans have guns too, they'll lose their sense of reality! :p
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Europeans can have guns, but only if they are closely supervised by the govt.
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I think the world is safer when europeans don't have guns.
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Originally posted by john9001
Europeans can have guns, but only if they are closely supervised by the govt.
I can have 1000 guns if i wanted to. I had a Glock at one point but gave it back.
You need.
1. membership in gunclub, or a hunting license.
2. a fairly clean police record and not been classified as mentaly unstable for some reason.
3. cash to buy the guns and a certified gun cabinet.
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Originally posted by john9001
Europeans can have guns, but only if they are closely supervised by the govt.
What exactly do you mean by "closely supervised by the govt". Please elaborate.
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Nilsen answered it for me.
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Originally posted by john9001
Nilsen answered it for me.
:rofl
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A very attractive young woman for sure. However, lookng at the footage where she is running through the course, I see way too many rocks milling about to be shooting into the dirt. Ive had fragments and in one case a whole bullet ricochette back by me when shooting into dirt beds filled with rocks like that.
Europeans were the first to master firearms in any organized fashion. I think that by looking at how the euros have evolved, everyone else that has come since can learn a tremendous amount of what, and what not to do in a society. The trick is knowing the difference. I believe firearms ownership is an essential part of maintaining a free society, or at least a society trying to remain free.
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Europeans can have guns, but only if they are closely supervised by the govt.
What's funny (not really) is that the French have generally more rights than I do living in Cook County, and far more than I had when I lived in Chicago. The community is small, but they are interested in IPSC, Cowboy action and AR-15s.
IPSC looks like a lot of fun :)
Charon
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Originally posted by john9001
Nilsen answered it for me.
Ah ... so in your opinion Americans can have cars, but only if they are "closely supervised by the govt."
I see.
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Originally posted by Viking
Ah ... so in your opinion Americans can have cars, but only if they are "closely supervised by the govt."
I see.
Very true unless you live in the sticks or aren't an American but driving here illegally in which case the government looks the other way.
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Originally posted by Viking
Ah ... so in your opinion Americans can have cars, but only if they are "closely supervised by the govt."
I see.
Only if you plan on driving on public roadways. I can buy a motor vehicle and legally operate it, without emissions controls, on private roads and farms all day long if I choose. Can you really say that your firearms laws are that lenient?
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Originally posted by FBBone
Only if you plan on driving on public roadways. I can buy a motor vehicle and legally operate it, without emissions controls, on private roads and farms all day long if I choose. Can you really say that your firearms laws are that lenient?
Close. It would be as if you had to own a drivers license to buy the car. Otherwise it is very similar.
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well... since your-0-peeeans have all the gun rights that we do and even more in some cases....
What is all the big deal? shouldn't you furriners be feeling sorry for us and demanding that we be treated as well as you?
lazs
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We don't presume to tell you what to do in your own country.
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Originally posted by Viking
We don't presume to tell you what to do in your own country.
i think you do.
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Originally posted by lazs2
well... since your-0-peeeans have all the gun rights that we do and even more in some cases....
What is all the big deal? shouldn't you furriners be feeling sorry for us and demanding that we be treated as well as you?
lazs
Main reason for us to get guns is for hunting animals. We dont carry them around. Its not allowed to walk around with a loaded handgun on the streets. Your issues with your gov seems to hover around wether or not you can carry one around. That is not even an intersting debate over here as noone is interested in having one with you for "protection" ;)
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Originally posted by john9001
i think you do.
Really? Please provide an example. The forum's search function is at your disposal.
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Originally posted by Viking
Hush!
If some Americans realize that Europeans have guns too, they'll lose their sense of reality! :p
The French have guns, never been fired, only dropped once.
The Norwegians have guns, they used them to shoot at allies in WW2 when they joined the SS.
The British used to have guns, and were prepared to defend their shores in WW2 from the Nazis and Norwegians.
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Yes, us Norwegians have a bad rep for invading other countries. We even invaded your country once Dago ... well, sort of anyway. Your country didn't exist back then. :aok
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that was not a invasion, it was a trade mission,
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Shhh ... I'm trying to add to Dago's delusions of us being violent invaders and dangerous people. You're RUINING it! ;)
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Lol Dago.. worst bate ever :rofl
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sorry viking. :D
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ah.. so you have guns but you are not allowed to use them or even carry them anywhere that they might be useful to defend yourself with.
I think I like it here better. I don't really care to tell other people what they can do with their guns so long as they are not harming anyone who doesn't deserve it.
just curious.. if your car were stopped in traffic in a bad section of town and swarmed by 4 or five thugs.. wouldn't it be good to have a firearm?
lazs
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defend against what?
We live in a civilized country, not a third world war zone.. jeebuz you must live in a crappy country :lol
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be that as it may... it is what it is. I wouldn't be too smug tho. once your country becomes a little less lilly white you might wish you had thought it out better.
lazs
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The French have guns, never been fired, only dropped once.
I kinda start to get tired hearing brave men bashed. The French soldiers fought hard in WWI. Read up on Verdun some time. Didn't surrender in that one.
They fought hard in 1940 as well. They were let down by their military and political leaders. Most importantly, the Germans had a new military doctrine that was ahead of that practiced elsewhere, including the US. The French just didn't have the time or geography to learn how totally mechanized warfare had developed. Given how prepared we were for Pearl harbor and even more telling, Tunisia, where we gout our bellybutton totally kicked -- we have little room to talk. Unlike the French we did have the option to learn from our mistakes, and even take combined arms mechanized warfare to the next level in the process.
Napoleon was no slouch either.
The Norwegians... a bit complicated. There were cultural issues and they were occupied and people made choices. A lot also made the choice to have active resistance either on the ground in Norway or serving in the formal military in the UK. Anne Frank was eventually ratted out, but a lot of people risked their lives and their families' lives before that to protect her family. That takes guts that I don't know if I would have.
Then again, the US Nazi Party was notable up until 12-7-41. And, the US and UK both de facto backed the Nazis in Spain during the Civil War. Quite a bit of admiration for Herr Hitler among conservative circles at the time. Wouldn't it be nice if we had our own Hitler... he could sure deal with those unions.
The whole Ugly American thing can really be more than a stereotype.
Charon
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Originally posted by Nilsen
defend against what?
We live in a civilized country, not a third world war zone.. jeebuz you must live in a crappy country :lol
Don't be a salamander Nilsen.
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I agree charon.. the norweigns are just a happy little group who are living under the good graces of everyone else. they are incapable of defending themselves and on occasion they simply get occupied and taken over.. there is nothing they can do about it so they should simply enjoy any good periods where bad people ignore them.
since they have a lilly white society with 99% of the population speaking the official language and looking just like everyone else.. they have a right to be smug at how well they are all getting along.
I hope it lasts for them. I imagine it won't.. I know that there won't be a damn thing they can do about it tho except to hope that some of the more violent and vibrant countries like ours come to their rescue so that they can live as they wish.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
be that as it may... it is what it is. I wouldn't be too smug tho. once your country becomes a little less lilly white you might wish you had thought it out better.
lazs
LOL :D
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Originally posted by Charon
I kinda start to get tired hearing brave men bashed. The French soldiers fought hard in WWI. Read up on Verdun some time. Didn't surrender in that one.
They fought hard in 1940 as well. They were let down by their military and political leaders. Most importantly, the Germans had a new military doctrine that was ahead of that practiced elsewhere, including the US. The French just didn't have the time or geography to learn how totally mechanized warfare had developed. Given how prepared we were for Pearl harbor and even more telling, Tunisia, where we gout our bellybutton totally kicked -- we have little room to talk. Unlike the French we did have the option to learn from our mistakes, and even take combined arms mechanized warfare to the next level in the process.
Napoleon was no slouch either.
The Norwegians... a bit complicated. There were cultural issues and they were occupied and people made choices. A lot also made the choice to have active resistance either on the ground in Norway or serving in the formal military in the UK. Anne Frank was eventually ratted out, but a lot of people risked their lives and their families' lives before that to protect her family. That takes guts that I don't know if I would have.
Then again, the US Nazi Party was notable up until 12-7-41. And, the US and UK both de facto backed the Nazis in Spain during the Civil War. Quite a bit of admiration for Herr Hitler among conservative circles at the time. Wouldn't it be nice if we had our own Hitler... he could sure deal with those unions.
The whole Ugly American thing can really be more than a stereotype.
Charon
Shortly after the war and really up until very recently the "quslings" and those who fought in the SS were really given a hard time and were given the blame for anything and everything.
It was good for the healing process to have them to hate. Now that alot of the feelings have toned down and people and historians have started to look into what happened and why things are starting to change and the SS guys are viewed slightly differently.
It turns out that the vast majority of those who voulenteered for SS duty did so to fight commies and actually were convinced that fighting commies was the most important thing they could do. Some became aware of the horrible things the nazies did and left, some knew but turned a blind eye and im sure some took part. All of them belived they fought for Norway and against communism.
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Originally posted by Neubob
Don't be a salamander Nilsen.
Oh the things one would get to see up close if one was a salamander :D
Anywho.. im just talking lazs language.
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Originally posted by lazs2
since they have a lilly white society with 99% of the population speaking the official language and looking just like everyone else.. they have a right to be smug at how well they are all getting along.
Actually about 10% of our population are immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants. Mostly Pakistanis, Kurds, Afghans, Iraqis, Iranians, Tamils, and a variety of Africans.
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Originally posted by Viking
Actually about 10% of our population are immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants. Mostly Pakistanis, Kurds, Afghans, Iraqis, Iranians, Tamils, and a variety of Africans.
The beginnings of the upcoming problems you will experience have now taken root. You guys are screwed and don't even know it yet.
They don't want to live in your society as you know it, they will work to change it to their society.
Guaranteed.
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Sure, we know this. However, we are working to change them. It won't work on most of the 1st generation immigrants, but it will work on most of their children. You see Norway has an advantage over the USA in this regard ... here everybody must go to our state schools (elementary and junior high). 10 years of programming. We are already seeing the benefits from this system.
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well... tell you what.. when you are as diverse as us for as long as us and....
able to defend yourselves...
then you will be worth listening to.
lazs
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Originally posted by Viking
Sure, we know this. However, we are working to change them. It won't work on most of the 1st generation immigrants, but it will work on most of their children. You see Norway has an advantage over the USA in this regard ... here everybody must go to our state schools (elementary and junior high). 10 years of programming. We are already seeing the benefits from this system.
Well, at least you've admitted to it being a problem. There're people here that will claim that there is no problem, that culture must be nurtured and respected regardless of the situation and that there is no threat posed here.
I wish you the best of luck with this. No sarcasm.
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As do I... and.. no sarcasm intended here either.
lazs
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Thanks. Yes it is a problem. Hopefully one we can handle. There really are only three alternatives: 1-change them 2-kill them 3-change ourselves. I much prefer option 1 ... option 2 if we have to.
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viking.. wouldn't it be prudent in light of the options you laid out... especially number two...
to be armed when in bad neighborhoods? I have no idea if you have such yet but pretty much see it as inevitable.. I will tell you tho that we do have such here. That if you appear weak in some areas here.. you will be assaulted.
There is also some bleed over.. nice malls and such may have these feral thugs roaming around or in the parking lot. An older couple or a woman seeing a group of them way out in the parking lot of the mall goes through some real apprehension.
lazs
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Yes, protecting yourself and your property is a human right in my opinion. Unfortunately this is very restricted here, but if things become much worse (crime wise) then perhaps this will change. As for killing the Muslims I was thinking more of killing those outside our borders ... like in Afghanistan now. Those inside who misbehave will more likely be just locked up.
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She seems to be holding that Glock so awkwardly. But hey, it works.
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viking.. the way it works here is.. we have whole cities that are crime ridden pest holes.. we have nice cities near them.. the bad guys realize that it is easier to hit the good areas so long as they are on the freeway..
meaning.. while most people see jewelry stores and fast food and banks/credit unions by the freeway as a convienience.. these guys see it as low hanging fruit in the neighbors yard.. they can hit and be back in scumville in 20 minutes from a variety of roads.
I can drive some of our back roads for an hour without seeing another car much less a cop.
We have even had some drive by shootings and body dumps.
I am just practical.. I have not needed a seat belt to save my life in millions of miles and decades of driving.. I have needed or found useful.. a gun more than a few times.
lazs
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She seems to be holding that Glock so awkwardly. But hey, it works.
I haven't looked into it but I imagine she would be pretty average by fully international standards. One clip shows Angus Hobdell making his runs and you can notice a difference. I'm not familiar enough with the sport to really know either way.
However, my point in posting was that given all the challenges the firearm community has in Europe (though France is pretty liberal on ownership for the time being) there are enthusiasts out there enjoying firearm sports like we do here, beside the Swiss, and some are not that hard on the eyes:) Plus, she's only 18 or 19, so there is some room to improve.
When I think of "Chicks With Guns" this is more of a turn on than some silicon bimbo in a bikini closing her eyes, pointing the muzzle generally down range and burning through a mag on full auto :)
Charon
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Main reason for us to get guns is for hunting animals. We dont carry them around. Its not allowed to walk around with a loaded handgun on the streets. Your issues with your gov seems to hover around wether or not you can carry one around. That is not even an intersting debate over here as noone is interested in having one with you for "protection" ;)
Don't want to get caught up in the USA v Europe p*****g match here, but Nilsen hits on a key issue here: whilst gun laws vary widely accross European countries, generally speaking it is illegal to carry firearms other than in carefully controlled situations such as gun clubs. Unlike the USA, however, that doesn't bother anyone in Europe as no-one wants to carry a firearm.
The issue of gun ownership has historically been seen a key issue in US politics and been the focus of battles on personal freedoms and government non-interferance. That's kept the interest in gun ownership relatively high.
In Europe, there has never been anything like that focus on the subject and therefore it is a non-issue. Europeans have generally never even considered owning a gun so the concept of being p'eed off because they are not allowed to doesn't come up. Interestingly, European society has not collapsed as a result.
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Thats about it Wooley. A gun is not a symbol of rights or personal freedom at all in the same way. Here in Norway the flag is a much stronger symbol for natural causes. Its not really needed for protection from the government or criminals either. Except for armed robbery of banks and gang vs gang shootings etc criminals knows that the police is not armed and victims that they want to rob on the streets is not either so they dont feel the need to use one. Gun related deaths are mostly suicides or familily tragedies that are usually triggered by a combination of a gun that is easily available and alcohol.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
criminals knows that the police is not armed and victims that they want to rob on the streets is not either so they dont feel the need to use one.
so the criminal just beats you up and takes what they want from you, what a great country to be a criminal in.
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Originally posted by john9001
so the criminal just beats you up and takes what they want from you, what a great country to be a criminal in.
If they so desire they do.. just like everywere else on the planet.
Beeing able to carry a gun doesnt seem to magically make america the safest place to live either. The big difference is that if one or both of them have a gun the end of the story is far more likley to be that one of em or both ends up dead or injured. When neither has a gun the worst thing that usually happens is that the good guy looses valuables that can be replaced with ease.
dead or injured vs abit broker (until you get it back from the insurance) hmm...
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Beeing able to carry a gun doesnt seem to magically make america the safest place to live either.
It's a good deal safer for those who do have a gun in their hand when the need arises.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Beeing able to carry a gun doesnt seem to magically make america the safest place to live either.
it makes me safer.
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Originally posted by AKIron
It's a good deal safer for those who do have a gun in their hand when the need arises.
no it doesnt
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Originally posted by Nilsen
no it doesnt
Do you mean no it isn't? I bet that for every instance of some gun possessing innocent assaulted where the gun did them no good I can cite 2 where the gun did protect them.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Do you mean no it isn't? I bet that for every instance of some gun possessing innocent assaulted where the gun did them no good I can cite 2 where the gun did protect them.
Chanses of you yourself getting killed or injured is prolly higher if you have a gun than if you just fork over the loot that the bad guy wants.
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I'd rather risk my life and shoot them than just give in to criminals. I think it should be a human right to be able to protect life and property with whatever means necessary. That we don't need to do so in this country is irrelevant.
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Originally posted by Viking
I'd rather risk my life and shoot them than just give in to criminals. I think it should be a human right to be able to protect life and property with whatever means necessary. That we don't need to do so in this country is irrelevant.
So you think everyone should have the right to carry a firearm on the streets?
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Given the proper education and security clearance (mental illness, criminal record etc.) ... yes.
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Originally posted by Viking
Given the proper education and security clearance (mental illness, criminal record etc.) ... yes.
mhm ok..
so when should you be allowed to walk around with one?
From what age?
Only when sober?
When should you be allowed to fire it at someone?
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Originally posted by Nilsen
mhm ok..
so when should you be allowed to walk around with one?
From what age?
Only when sober?
When should you be allowed to fire it at someone?
the law already covers that, varies a little by state.
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Ya know.. if you read this board then you will think that all the your-0-peeeans are just thrilled that their country takes away their right to protect themselves... that nobody really wants to do it.. that it is better to wander the streets drunk than to maybe be able to defend yourself.
That hiding under the bed during a burglary is an acceptable way to live.. that no your-0-peean country has ever or will ever be taken over by a tyrant. That the lilly white non mixture of people and cultures will last forever... I say... if the booze gets you through it... keep it up but...
at least one on this board...viking.. and a few brits are not in the least happy about having the government tell em what they can do to defend themselves.
When I read gun boards.. there are lots of your-0-peeans that don't sound anything like what you hear here.. the are not in the least happy about it.
lazs
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Originally posted by Nilsen
mhm ok..
so when should you be allowed to walk around with one?
From what age?
Only when sober?
When should you be allowed to fire it at someone?
For simplicity lets just say that we apply the same rules as for cars. You have to be sober and have a license that proves you are qualified to operate the weapon. You should be allowed to fire the weapon at someone when you deem it necessary to protect yourself, other people or your property. A court of law will later judge if you were justified in your actions.
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Originally posted by Viking
For simplicity lets just say that we apply the same rules as for cars. You have to be sober and have a license that proves you are qualified to operate the weapon. You should be allowed to fire the weapon at someone when you deem it necessary to protect yourself, other people or your property. A court of law will later judge if you were justified in your actions.
When you allow the population to be armed then you have also raised the bar for the criminal here in this country. They will now also have arm themselves unlike they are now. Id rather surrender my property than risk drawing a weapon at someone who is already pointing one at me. Im not so poor that i cant replace anything i ever walk around with anyway.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ya know.. if you read this board then you will think that all the your-0-peeeans are just thrilled that their country takes away their right to protect themselves... that nobody really wants to do it.. that it is better to wander the streets drunk than to maybe be able to defend yourself.
That hiding under the bed during a burglary is an acceptable way to live.. that no your-0-peean country has ever or will ever be taken over by a tyrant. That the lilly white non mixture of people and cultures will last forever... I say... if the booze gets you through it... keep it up but...
at least one on this board...viking.. and a few brits are not in the least happy about having the government tell em what they can do to defend themselves.
When I read gun boards.. there are lots of your-0-peeans that don't sound anything like what you hear here.. the are not in the least happy about it.
lazs
Not everyone is as scared or paranoid as you are youknow. Grow a pair ;)
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Is that what you tell the women who are being stalked by a drunk ex who has beaten them up in the past and is now telling here he will kill her?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Is that what you tell the women who are being stalked by a drunk ex who has beaten them up in the past and is now telling here he will kill her?
lazs
who is that?
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Originally posted by Nilsen
When you allow the population to be armed then you have also raised the bar for the criminal here in this country. They will now also have arm themselves unlike they are now. Id rather surrender my property than risk drawing a weapon at someone who is already pointing one at me. Im not so poor that i cant replace anything i ever walk around with anyway.
The criminals in this country are armed, or haven't you been following the news?
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2007/09/25/513148.html
(http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/51/513/513148/gjeng1Xcopy_1190721778_1190721795.jpg)
If you don't want to defend yourself that is your choice to make. Please allow me to make mine.
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Yeah and who do they use em on?
Other gangs and maybe a bankrobbery. Havent you followed the news?
Again... defend myself against who?
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Against who? You can't seriously be arguing that there is no violent crime in Norway?
In any case it is besides the point. Not needing something is not a good reason for having a law against it. As I said before, you are free to be unarmed if you so choose. Why should I not have the freedom to choose to be armed?
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Originally posted by Viking
Against who? You can't seriously be arguing that there is no violent crime in Norway?
In any case it is besides the point. Not needing something is not a good reason for having a law against it. As I said before, you are free to be unarmed if you so choose. Why should I not have the freedom to choose to be armed?
I have never seen or heard of anyone beeing threatended with a gun on the streets. Not even when i lived in Oslo. The odd story on the news perhaps, but nothing that arming the population would help with. It would be a massive overkill and create more problems than it would solve.
Again.. if someone has a gun pointed at you I bet you would be the first one hurt if you started grabbing for your own if the guy on the other end had intended to use it in the first place.
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It's a simple question Nilsen, no need to evade it.
Why should I not have the freedom to choose to be armed?
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Originally posted by Viking
It's a simple question Nilsen, no need to evade it.
Why should I not have the freedom to choose to be armed?
Because we live in a civlized society were you can not take every "freedom" you see fit.
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Euro FIGHT!!!
:D
I am with Viking on this one Nils, you are the one that comes off fearing your fellow citizen.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Because we live in a civlized society were you can not take every "freedom" you see fit.
Yes we do live in a civilized society. We are civilized people. There is very little crime.
So why can't I carry a gun? What possible harm could that do?
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yep... I have never understood the reasoning of the your-0-peeans like nelson who say how much more civilized they are than us but then say that their people can't be trusted with firearms because it will allow them to go ferral.
Is it just that the firearms have some magic hold that turns men into savages?
If that is true.. how can we allow our military and police to wander around with the most dangerous arms available? what stops the bodyguards of the rich and famous and political from just whipping out a gun and mowing down nelson and company?
Is the magic not working on them and if so... why not? does a uniform of mirrored sunglasses make them immune?
lazs
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Originally posted by Nilsen
who is that?
I'm betting Nicole Simpson Brown would tell you today how glad she was to have her handgun handy, if only she had.