Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Rich46yo on November 21, 2007, 08:37:36 PM
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Look I dont like to complain but Im getting tired of this. It takes a long time to climb bombers up to alt only to have some nitwit fly right into your rear end, even tho I shot him full of holes, collide with you, and you lose a bomber while he gets a kill.
Last week I had some goofball purposely fly a P-51 at full steam into the rear of 3 B-26s, hitting all of them, and then he gets 3 kills while I get a wasted 30 mins. I dont think he pinged me once he sucked so bad, which is why he kamakazied into me. Tonight I had a great fight going on with 3 fighters when one guy ran into the rear of a bomber, threw me off my groove, and I ended up losing a bomber while he got a kill and I didn't. As he was coming in I saw his fighter opening up from my cannon shots.
You cant collide with someone backwards while flying away from them. They are obviously colliding with you and the bomber stick should get the kill. Not visa-versa.
I might have lost anyways. I was up against a P-38 and 190 that knew there stuff. But I hate losing like this. Some of these guys are running into you on purpose I can tell. There, I had my say.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Look I dont like to complain but Im getting tired of this. It takes a long time to climb bombers up to alt only to have some nitwit fly right into your rear end, even tho I shot him full of holes, collide with you, and you lose a bomber while he gets a kill.
Last week I had some goofball purposely fly a P-51 at full steam into the rear of 3 B-26s, hitting all of them, and then he gets 3 kills while I get a wasted 30 mins. I dont think he pinged me once he sucked so bad, which is why he kamakazied into me. Tonight I had a great fight going on with 3 fighters when one guy ran into the rear of a bomber, threw me off my groove, and I ended up losing a bomber while he got a kill and I didn't. As he was coming in I saw his fighter opening up from my cannon shots.
You cant collide with someone backwards while flying away from them. They are obviously colliding with you and the bomber stick should get the kill. Not visa-versa.
I might have lost anyways. I was up against a P-38 and 190 that knew there stuff. But I hate losing like this. Some of these guys are running into you on purpose I can tell. There, I had my say.
Shoot him before he kills you.
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Shoot him before he kills you.
:aok
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Yasee theres a reason Spike was the first I put on ignore here.
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The collision model is stupid anyway, I prey on realism....
If 2 planes crash in mid air they should both die...the game shouldnt play a lottery and decide which one of the 2 was more at fault and kill them, AH isnt a insurance claims adjustor
I was watching an airshow accident on tv the other day, 2 F-14s crashed into each other (because the flight leader was alittle too high) when both planes fell to the ground i thought to myself....WHAT! only the flight leader should have hit the ground in pieces since it was his fault, but then i remembered i was watching something real not Aces High
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I thought we already explained the collision model to you a couple weeks ago?
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Yasee theres a reason Spike was the first I put on ignore here.
I'm curious. When you put someone on ignore, what happens?
And to your post about being bum rushed...why would someone intentionally ram you. You see, if you intentionally direct your plane into another plane, you will take damage. There is a chance that the person you run into will not take damage.
Intentionally ramming your plane into someone will definitely get you some damage and MAY or MAY NOT cause the other person to pick up some damage.
So what you are seeing is someone running into you on your front end, not theirs. So there is a good chance that no intentional running into you took place...on their end it very well may look like they missed your completely.
Do a search for Bronk's pic's on collisions.
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The collision model does not factor in whose fault it is.
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
The collision model does not factor in whose fault it is.
Hence why i called it a lottery....
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Originally posted by Donzo
I'm curious. When you put someone on ignore, what happens?
Just a wild guess...he ignores me.
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Originally posted by DVDA
The collision model is stupid anyway, I prey on realism....
If 2 planes crash in mid air they should both die...the game shouldnt play a lottery and decide which one of the 2 was more at fault and kill them, AH isnt a insurance claims adjustor
The game does not decide anything.
If your game on your PC sees part of your plane touch part of another plane a collision is detected and assigned to you. If the other guy's game on his PC sees part of his plane touch part of your plane in this same exchange a collision is detected on his end assigned to him.
Simple.
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Just a wild guess...he ignores me.
You know, that is what I assumed happened. Yet he makes mention of you. I thought that you did not see posts from people on your ignore list. :confused:
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Originally posted by Donzo
The game does not decide anything.
If your game on your PC sees part of your plane touch part of another plane a collision is detected and assigned to you. If the other guy's game on his PC sees part of his plane touch part of your plane in this same exchange a collision is detected on his end assigned to him.
Simple.
Ill be sure to look away next time
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Originally posted by DVDA
The collision model is stupid anyway, I prey on realism....
If 2 planes crash in mid air they should both die...the game shouldnt play a lottery and decide which one of the 2 was more at fault and kill them, AH isnt a insurance claims adjustor
I'm really tired to see this crap again. Especially from someone apparently playing this game for years.
You would really like to see following scenario:
I fly towards you. You see that and dodge. I fly by at a distance about 200ft . Suddenly you get a collision message and die. You'd really not complain? Though I never happened to touch your plane on your screen? You successfully dodge & die?
Originally posted by Rich46yo
You cant collide with someone backwards while flying away from them. They are obviously colliding with you and the bomber stick should get the kill.
There is a misconception. AH never tries to determine who's fault a collision was. "You have collided" does NOT mean you are in any way responsible for anything.
It just means that there was a collision on your Front End (Screen).
If there was no "XY has collided with you", there was NO collision on his screen. So basically he did NOT fly into you.
The reason for the fact that there can be a collision on one screen and not on the other players one is lag.
This, and the reasons why any other collision modeling would result in vasty more trouble than the current one has been explained in various threads ad nauseum.
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Originally posted by Murdr
I thought we already explained the collision model to you a couple weeks ago?
Yeah, as I understand it everything depends on whos computer "see's" the damage and who's "doesn't".
What I cant understand is why this type of collision, which is clearly the fault of the IB fighter, results in "my" computer getting the "screw you your dead" message while the "other computer doesn't".
This isn't an HO. I am flying away from the much faster fighter and have no control over the collision. Whatever my computer "see's" or his "doesn't see".
When you think of it its a great tactic to take down bombers. Just look for some poor schmuck who spent the last 45 minutes climbing, then get a good head of steam going, dance all over the place getting in on him, and then ram him. In fact ram all three.
Sure your never stable enough to shoot but who cares? Its the ram that matters. Works even best when 3 or 4 fighters are fighting the lone bomber stick.
Ive had all kinds of collisions out here. At beast theres no rhyme or reason to it ; Its on a Lottery system. This particular rear end ram is one where I always lose out. I'll bet Ive lost 10 bombers to these kinds of rams.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Yeah, as I understand it everything depends on whos computer "see's" the damage and who's "doesn't".
What I cant understand is why this type of collision, which is clearly the fault of the IB fighter, results in "my" computer getting the "screw you your dead" message while the "other computer doesn't".
Why is it the fault of the ib fighter? If he didn't see a collision then it was his fault. What do you not understand about that concept?
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Yeah, as I understand it everything depends on whos computer "see's" the damage and who's "doesn't".
What I cant understand is why this type of collision, which is clearly the fault of the IB fighter, results in "my" computer getting the "screw you your dead" message while the "other computer doesn't".
This isn't an HO. I am flying away from the much faster fighter and have no control over the collision. Whatever my computer "see's" or his "doesn't see".
When you think of it its a great tactic to take down bombers. Just look for some poor schmuck who spent the last 45 minutes climbing, then get a good head of steam going, dance all over the place getting in on him, and then ram him. In fact ram all three.
If you understand the "who's computer see's" thing, why is it hard for you to understand that ramming intentionally is not a "great tactic"? If you ram intentionally YOUR front end is going to see the collision and assign it to you. How is that a tactic to damage the other guy?
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My question when discussing collisions is this - if so many people have problems with collisions (planes hitting planes) then imagine all the weirdness that is going on with combat (bullets and cannon shells hitting planes) that few think about.
I might get rammed once or twice a night, but I shoot (and am shot at) literally hundreds of times in an evening. Is the outcome of this combat the same kind of crapshoot that a collision is? Doesn't that negate the reason we all play this thing? I could have all the skill of Tommy McGuire, but it doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not my computer sees or doesn't see my bullets hit, or his computer sees or doesn't see his bullets hit.
If bullet impact doesn't face the same kind of weirdness that plane impact does, then why don't we use the bullet model for planes?
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Originally posted by Donzo
You know, that is what I assumed happened. Yet he makes mention of you. I thought that you did not see posts from people on your ignore list. :confused:
True...
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Originally posted by baine1
My question when discussing collisions is this - if so many people have problems with collisions (planes hitting planes) then imagine all the weirdness that is going on with combat (bullets and cannon shells hitting planes) that few think about.
I might get rammed once or twice a night, but I shoot (and am shot at) literally hundreds of times in an evening. Is the outcome of this combat the same kind of crapshoot that a collision is? Doesn't that negate the reason we all play this thing? I could have all the skill of Tommy McGuire, but it doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not my computer sees or doesn't see my bullets hit, or his computer sees or doesn't see his bullets hit.
If bullet impact doesn't face the same kind of weirdness that plane impact does, then why don't we use the bullet model for planes?
It's the same thing...you shoot, your bullets on your game on your pc hit the representation of the other guy's plane...this records a hit and sends a message that you hit him with bullets to his game on his pc.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Yeah, as I understand it everything depends on whos computer "see's" the damage and who's "doesn't".
What I cant understand is why this type of collision, which is clearly the fault of the IB fighter, results in "my" computer getting the "screw you your dead" message while the "other computer doesn't"
L-A-G! Its that simple deal with it!
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Yeah, as I understand it everything depends on whos computer "see's" the damage and who's "doesn't".
What I cant understand is why this type of collision, which is clearly the fault of the IB fighter, results in "my" computer getting the "screw you your dead" message while the "other computer doesn't".
Once again: AH2 will not and CAN NOT determine any "fault" it just determines if two planes touch each other on the client's screen. There is NO way it could ever determine who's fault a collision is.
Originally posted by Rich46yo
When you think of it its a great tactic to take down bombers. Just look for some poor schmuck who spent the last 45 minutes climbing, then get a good head of steam going, dance all over the place getting in on him, and then ram him. In fact ram all three.
No it isnt't. To successful ram, I have to hit the drones on your screen not on mine. But I don't know the relative positions of both planes on YOUR screen. because of that its difficult to intentionally ram a bomber, I have to hit a plane I don't see. And while trying that, I can easily get shot down while getting that close.
It's far easier to shoot at planes I can actually see.
But on a side note, if "Both should die in a collision" was implemented, INTENTIONAL rams would suddenly work.
Originally posted by Rich46yo
Its on a Lottery system.
If you really understood and did accept "Yeah, as I understand it everything depends on whos computer "see's" the damage and who's "doesn't". ", you wouldn't be able to make such a statement.
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hi rich
just wanted you to know that every time i ram a bomber i died and the bomber flies off happily, this is because im a fighter player...no you are a bomber player so for you everytime this happens the fighters get the good side of the deal.
its because we remember the negative more than the possitive and we always think our chosen class of pilot gets the bum deal vs the other plane types.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
hi rich
just wanted you to know that every time i ram a bomber i died and the bomber flies off happily, this is because im a fighter player...no you are a bomber player so for you everytime this happens the fighters get the good side of the deal.
its because we remember the negative more than the possitive and we always think our chosen class of pilot gets the bum deal vs the other plane types.
word
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
hi rich
just wanted you to know that every time i ram a bomber i died and the bomber flies off happily, this is because im a fighter player...no you are a bomber player so for you everytime this happens the fighters get the good side of the deal.
its because we remember the negative more than the possitive and we always think our chosen class of pilot gets the bum deal vs the other plane types.
word^2
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I'd have to give that nitwit credit for being able to hit all three of your planes in one ram. That is some skillful dweebery.
:huh
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For the numpties who still fail to get it.
Cut-N-paste
Enjoy
Originally posted by Bronk
Slappy, it's my personal windmill.:D
Tangle's external from his front end the moment of impact.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/Tanglesview.jpg)
Same basic angle external, tangle's view from my front end moment of impact.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/myview.jpg)
How would you feel taking damage looking at your film and seeing tangles front end view, hmmmmmm?
I know I'd be pretty POed.
Bronk
Edit: This also works nicely for the "none should take damage" people.
Yea I should be able to put the nose of my ac through another.:furious :furious :furious :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
FBplmmr
you may have to quote this because some numpties ignore me . They fail to follow my logic and figure I'm just a troll.
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Originally posted by Donzo
I'm curious. When you put someone on ignore, what happens?
And to your post about being bum rushed...why would someone intentionally ram you. You see, if you intentionally direct your plane into another plane, you will take damage. There is a chance that the person you run into will not take damage.
Intentionally ramming your plane into someone will definitely get you some damage and MAY or MAY NOT cause the other person to pick up some damage.
So what you are seeing is someone running into you on your front end, not theirs. So there is a good chance that no intentional running into you took place...on their end it very well may look like they missed your completely.
Do a search for Bronk's pic's on collisions.
Apparently you take them off ignore shortly thereafter to read what he says
about you :D
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i think the nazi's were ramming bombers near the end of the war.
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It's raining here.
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Originally posted by Donzo
If you understand the "who's computer see's" thing, why is it hard for you to understand that ramming intentionally is not a "great tactic"? If you ram intentionally YOUR front end is going to see the collision and assign it to you. How is that a tactic to damage the other guy?
OK, why would my computer "see it" and not his?
Im assuming hes in the cockpit looking foward. How else is he "his computer" going to look? Theres no F3 views with fighters.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
OK, why would my computer "see it" and not his?
Because planes have different positions on each player's computer. Thats a result of lag - signals need time to travel through the internet, hence resulting in two different "realities"
What YOU see on your computer is NOT what I see on MINE. Please look at this pics:
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/Tanglesview.jpg)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/myview.jpg)
Same situation, filmed by both players. Player A sees picture 1, player B sees picture 2.
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Originally posted by crockett
I'd have to give that nitwit credit for being able to hit all three of your planes in one ram. That is some skillful dweebery.
:huh
I wish I took films. I couldnt believe it.
Rino I dont know "why" anyone would intentionally "ram me". For that matter I dont 'know" "why" anyone would climb a tower with a HP rifle and shoot 30 people. Ive walked thru puddles of blood asking myself "why" anyone would shoot 4 people over a dice game.
Batfink thanks for posting but Im asking a particular question over a particular type of ram. I dont think the world is "out to get me". Well, maybe sometimes, but not today. Ive been rammed other ways and gotten the kill but never with this backwards ram. There is no way a bomber can ram an IB fighter from the rear. Or there shouldnt be, AH needs to change what see's what.
Thanks to the guys actually making a contribution to the thread. To the others? Isnt your mommie calling?:p
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OK Lusche. I get it. Its a crapshoot pure and simple right?
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
I wish I took films. I couldnt believe it.
Rino I dont know "why" anyone would intentionally "ram me". For that matter I dont 'know" "why" anyone would climb a tower with a HP rifle and shoot 30 people. Ive walked thru puddles of blood asking myself "why" anyone would shoot 4 people over a dice game.
Batfink thanks for posting but Im asking a particular question over a particular type of ram. I dont think the world is "out to get me". Well, maybe sometimes, but not today. Ive been rammed other ways and gotten the kill but never with this backwards ram. There is no way a bomber can ram an IB fighter from the rear. Or there shouldnt be, AH needs to change what see's what.
Thanks to the guys actually making a contribution to the thread. To the others? Isnt your mommie calling?:p
Look at Bronk's pictures.
Imagine this:
Top picture is my pc. I am the guy in the spit in the rear, you are the guy in the spit out front.
The bottom picture is your PC. Once again, I am the guy in the spit in the rear, you are the guy in the spit out front.
On my pc I clearly pulled up in time and did not hit the representation of your plane on my pc.
On your pc the representation of my plane did not pull up in time and hit the rear of your plane.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
OK Lusche. I get it. Its a crapshoot pure and simple right?
Ok, this is either a troll or you cannot read or comprehend what you read.
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Originally posted by Donzo
Ok, this is either a troll or you cannot read or comprehend what you read.
Either this is a fool or you cant comprehend when someone isnt talking to you.
Lusche there is no control of what computer sees what right? Its simply a question of lag and it could go either way correct?
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Lusche there is no control of what computer sees what right? Its simply a question of lag and it could go either way correct?
Yes. And to bust another common myth: a connection with more lag hasn't any advantage or disadvantage in regards to collisions. Lag is always total, combined lag. Simplified spoken, if I have a lag of 200ms (from me to HTC server) and you have one of 50ms, combined lag is 250 ms, and it's the same for both of us.
It would be different if the server would detect & determine collisions, but luckily it doesn't.
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Rich what you computer sees does not mean what view you have open.. it really refers to the reality that your cartoon plane exists in. it is called your FE or front end.
because of lag, the reality my cartoon plane exists in shows everyone in slightly different positions than the reality your cartoon plane exists in does.
in my reality i may fly near you but not touch you..at the same time .. in your reality our planes may intersect.
if that occurs, your plane would take damage but mine would not. because the best we can do is fly to the 'reality' depicted on our own screen.
this can work opposite or both could take damage..but it most definitely not a crapshoot because each pilot is responsible for his reality.
you are responsible for the location of your cartoon plane on your FE/reality.
if its location intersects with another object it gets a dent. just like real life.. the difference comes in on whether the other person takes damage.. because in his reality he may not have collided.
in order to ram you and make you take damage, a player would have to guess where you are and be right.
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So Im responsible for where my plane is in cartoon reality but it doesn't really matter cause I have no control over the other planes reality, nor does anyone else. The plane running into me hits me in my reality but not his? Right?
And since Im flying away from him, with my rear end pointed at him, I have zero control over the ram or who gets the kills? Correct? Like I said, a crapshoot? It would be one thing if I was flying at him and actually hit him, even in just my own reality, but to be flying away from him?? Thats the point Im trying to make. I understand the issue of lag and were all not seeing things at exactly the same instant.
Well....there is no real way to correct any of this. Its actually fairly impressive that the game works as well as it does, what with guys and gals all over the world flying together at once.
Thanks for the help.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
So Im responsible for where my plane is in cartoon reality but it doesn't really matter cause I have no control over the other planes reality,
Not exactly, because if you dodge him on your FE, it's irrelevant to you what happens on his (in regard to collisions) Only your FE matters - if he rams you on his FE only, you'll fly away unharmed.
Originally posted by Rich46yo
And since Im flying away from him, with my rear end pointed at him, I have zero control over the ram or who gets the kills? Correct? Like I said, a crapshoot? It would be one thing if I was flying at him and actually hit him, even in just my own reality, but to be flying away from him??
If you maneuver so that you dodge him on your FE, no collision occurs for you (with possible collision on HIS FE only, accompanied with a whine on CH200 ;)) . Or you can shoot him down prior to that.
It's really important to see that current modeling is the most fair one for every player. So far nobody came up with a practiable & better solution.
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
Rich what you computer sees does not mean what view you have open.. it really refers to the reality that your cartoon plane exists in. it is called your FE or front end.
because of lag, the reality my cartoon plane exists in shows everyone in slightly different positions than the reality your cartoon plane exists in does.
in my reality i may fly near you but not touch you..at the same time .. in your reality our planes may intersect.
if that occurs, your plane would take damage but mine would not. because the best we can do is fly to the 'reality' depicted on our own screen.
this can work opposite or both could take damage..but it most definitely not a crapshoot because each pilot is responsible for his reality.
you are responsible for the location of your cartoon plane on your FE/reality.
if its location intersects with another object it gets a dent. just like real life.. the difference comes in on whether the other person takes damage.. because in his reality he may not have collided.
in order to ram you and make you take damage, a player would have to guess where you are and be right.
OK so this does go to explain one side of a paradoxical issue I've had from time to time.
In a fight, I'm watching the enemy as we duel closely, he fires and I see his tracers pass well away from me, and (it seems like seconds but in reality it's probably milliseconds) later once the shells are past I'm still reversing all of a sudden I'm in the tower with shells exploding in my ears for 5 seconds.
Now I saw him miss, and miss big time, yet his FE obviously saw a kill... this is what happened right?
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Okay rich watch this film. Tbar came close to hitting me on my end but didnt. That means I dont take damage. On his end he flew into my plane thus he takes damage. Notice how I got the "Tbar has collided with you." in white. From what I know white message means your safe and the other guy is takes damage. Yellow "you have collided" message means youre the one taking damage. And the yellow and white message means your both taking damage because both "saw" a collision.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/ram.zip
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Originally posted by SD67
OK so this does go to explain one side of a paradoxical issue I've had from time to time.
In a fight, I'm watching the enemy as we duel closely, he fires and I see his tracers pass well away from me, and (it seems like seconds but in reality it's probably milliseconds) later once the shells are past I'm still reversing all of a sudden I'm in the tower with shells exploding in my ears for 5 seconds.
Now I saw him miss, and miss big time, yet his FE obviously saw a kill... this is what happened right?
Yes. Or have you ever sat on a CV and seen someone hovering in mid air? Its the same "lag" you may see the guy 200Ft off the carrier but on his end he is sitting on it.
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Rich, the way AH is setup, it's making the best of an imperfect situation. Unless someone invents an internet with zero latency, we're stuck with it. The good thing is that it really is a "What you (ie your FE) see is what you get" situation, making it very hard to intentionaly ram without just killing yourself. I think you just had a bad luck night.
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Originally posted by flatiron1
i think the nazi's were ramming bombers near the end of the war.
Yes, they were ordered to do so.
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He wont read this because I'm probably on ignore, but I'll try.
Originally posted by Rich46yo
So Im responsible for where my plane is in cartoon reality
Yes, It is your responsibility to not hit other AC, ground or bullets.
but it doesn't really matter cause I have no control over the other planes reality, nor does anyone else.
Why would it matter what the other guy does? You have full control of your ac.
The plane running into me hits me in my reality but not his? Right?
Yes, but on his front end he is in a space close to you. He missed you completely on his.
And since Im flying away from him, with my rear end pointed at him, I have zero control over the ram or who gets the kills? Correct? Like I said, a crapshoot? It would be one thing if I was flying at him and actually hit him, even in just my own reality, but to be flying away from him?? Thats the point Im trying to make. I understand the issue of lag and were all not seeing things at exactly the same instant.
Wrong you have full control of your ac. Most times all that would be needed is slight turn left or right. The other pilot has to fly to what he is viewing. It is almost impossible for him to predict where in space you are on your front end.
Well....there is no real way to correct any of this. Its actually fairly impressive that the game works as well as it does, what with guys and gals all over the world flying together at once.
There is nothing to correct. This is the best solution for an imperfect internet. What would you like, to be rammed out of the sky when the guy is 100 yards away from you? Don't you think that would piss you off a bit more?
Thanks for the help.
*OT
Ignoring people simply because you don't like there opinion is foolish. Even if they have a grating personality. Occasionally they have information that is both informative and helpful.
It reminds me of a six year old sticking his fingers in his ears screaming "lalalala I can't hear you. lalalala".
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Originally posted by SD67
OK so this does go to explain one side of a paradoxical issue I've had from time to time.
In a fight, I'm watching the enemy as we duel closely, he fires and I see his tracers pass well away from me, and (it seems like seconds but in reality it's probably milliseconds) later once the shells are past I'm still reversing all of a sudden I'm in the tower with shells exploding in my ears for 5 seconds.
Now I saw him miss, and miss big time, yet his FE obviously saw a kill... this is what happened right?
5 seconds is a really, really long time!(are you sure its that long? are you on a satellite?)
HiTech did talk about that one time as well, and if I remember it correctly --
The game is set up to allow you to hear that so when you die you dont say 'I got killed with one magic bullet'
It sounds like you have alot of lag ... and I mean alot.
I do occassionaly get the 'hey he's not even shooting at me ..he's way right!' and then I blow up.
I usually have a very poor connection those nights and its barely worth playing.
edit- doh I reread, and see it only happens to you from time to time..same with me
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
edit- doh I reread, and see it only happens to you from time to time..same with me
The majority of us are north american players. Say that on average we have 100 ms lag. That's not so bad because total lag will be around 200 ms.
Now take 2 aussie players who's say lag is around 250 ms. Their total lag would be around 500 ms. Thats more than double ours.
Factor in you have no idea who you are fighting in any given moment.
It becomes apparent why sometimes it appears you die from an impossible angle.
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Originally posted by Lusche
Not exactly, because if you dodge him on your FE, it's irrelevant to you what happens on his (in regard to collisions) Only your FE matters - if he rams you on his FE only, you'll fly away unharmed.
If you maneuver so that you dodge him on your FE, no collision occurs for you (with possible collision on HIS FE only, accompanied with a whine on CH200 ;)) . Or you can shoot him down prior to that.
It's really important to see that current modeling is the most fair one for every player. So far nobody came up with a practiable & better solution.
Most times I do shoot him down. However, as you know, it isn't that difficult to dance a high speed fighter in close to bombers. Most of all when the bomber stick has multiples to be concerned with. The trick is doing it and stabilizing long enough to shoot the bomber, which is when we get you. This instance I had at least 3 to be concerned with within gun range. When that happens I dont shoot until I one gets 400 yrds away, in KI-67s with limited ammo. So thats how this happened. And I did shoot the guy hard and no doubt, had he not rammed me, it would have been a clean kill. For all I know my hard shooting caused enough damage to cause the ram.
Im not saying the thing is "un-fair" obviously its just a game and modeled as good as it can be. However there seems to be some dynamic at work, with this particular kind of collision, that isn't so good for the bomber stick. And Im sure 99% of rams are accidental.
Some fighters with "E" are going what? 500 mph? You simply cant maneuver away from the thing if they want to run in one you. Not even in bombers like KI-67s. In this regard the fighter stick holds all the cards.
Anyhoo....Happy Thanksgiving to all.
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Hey Rich, were you by any chance jumping from one bomber to another?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Hey Rich, were you by any chance jumping from one bomber to another?
Negative. I forget which one I was in but I was in it for the entire engagement. I think I was in #1 bomber and #3 was rammed, but Im not sure.
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If you ram someone on your front end, you take the damage, and you do not get the kill.
Most likely what happened is the rammer died, and one of the others in on you got the kill. Only way to tell for sure is to film and check it later.
Also if your maneuvering while in the gun position (using rudder) you CAN get a collision by someone hitting your rear, as the game looks at you "maneuvering" into him
.................of course, I believe Im on his ignore list so my input doesn't matter :D
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there is something wrong with rich's ignore function....it seems to still alllow quotes, so you'll be ok fugi :)
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
in my reality i may fly near you but not touch you..at the same time .. in your reality our planes may intersect.
I think I get it now :D :D
(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6730/22131835medrl2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
I couldn't resist :rofl
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simple solution to original problem!
take off farther away from target, get higher, shoot sooner, and kill them first
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Also if your maneuvering while in the gun position (using rudder) you CAN get a collision by someone hitting your rear, as the game looks at you "maneuvering" into him
It has nothing to do with you "maneuvering" into him. The game does not analyze such things.
If your plane touches his, even if the cause of you touching was him flying into your rear, you will be assigned a collision.
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Originally posted by Donzo
, even if the cause of you touching was him flying into your rear,
I don't care who you are.
THATS funny!!
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
However, as you know, it isn't that difficult to dance a high speed fighter in close to bombers.
:rofl
You really dont fly fighters all that often, do you?
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I only read the first post in this thread... didnt bother to read the rest.
I picture what rich says in my mind. The lone skill-less dweeb who must ram bombers to get kills.
Let see.. fighter aircraft flying directly into the bomber. Bomber has guns all around it.
So in essence, the fighter is flying at the bomber's guns.
Its a HO situation but the guy in the fighter has to ram you to kill you.
Logic then, dictates Rich's buff gun aiming skills suck worse than the fighter plane's gunnery skills.
(http://bifsniff.com/wp-content/files/2007/08/spock-1.jpg)
fascinating...
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Originally posted by Tac
I only read the first post in this thread... didnt bother to read the rest.
I picture what rich says in my mind. The lone skill-less dweeb who must ram bombers to get kills.
Let see.. fighter aircraft flying directly into the bomber. Bomber has guns all around it.
So in essence, the fighter is flying at the bomber's guns.
Its a HO situation but the guy in the fighter has to ram you to kill you.
Logic then, dictates Rich's buff gun aiming skills suck worse than the fighter plane's gunnery skills.
(http://bifsniff.com/wp-content/files/2007/08/spock-1.jpg)
fascinating...
Name a time and place and we'll meet. I'll be in my 30 eny Japmobiles and you can be in any non-perk fighter. Oh, and btw, you suck!:D Whats your game name and who do you fly for. In KI-67s I'll go one on one with anyone in this game.
Thanks to the guys who made a contribution to the thread. I wrote all this 4 times but screen redraws preventing me posting. Anyway Im going to bow out of this now that some of the Mommies boys are chipping in. Happy Thanksgiving.
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I can't tell you how many times I get "XXXX has collided with you", yet the collidER most always gets the kill after colliding into me.
Makes no sense.
68ROX
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Originally posted by 68ROX
I can't tell you how many times I get "XXXX has collided with you", yet the collidER most always gets the kill after colliding into me.
Makes no sense.
68ROX
LOTTO-ERY!
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Originally posted by 68ROX
I can't tell you how many times I get "XXXX has collided with you", yet the collidER most always gets the kill after colliding into me.
If there is no "you have collided", but only a "XXX has collided with you" and yet you die, you simply have been shot down.
Many collisions like this occur when the attacker is getting greedy and is flying too close while shooting at you.
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Originally posted by Tac
I only read the first post in this thread... didnt bother to read the rest.
I picture what rich says in my mind. The lone skill-less dweeb who must ram bombers to get kills.
Let see.. fighter aircraft flying directly into the bomber. Bomber has guns all around it.
So in essence, the fighter is flying at the bomber's guns.
Its a HO situation but the guy in the fighter has to ram you to kill you.
Logic then, dictates Rich's buff gun aiming skills suck worse than the fighter plane's gunnery skills.
(http://bifsniff.com/wp-content/files/2007/08/spock-1.jpg)
fascinating...
Tac Im still waiting for you to give up your game name and give a time and place for us to meet in the air?
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Name a time and place and we'll meet. I'll be in my 30 eny Japmobiles and you can be in any non-perk fighter.
I'd take that bet in my lowly 51D. Not for the sake of any chest thumping to the winner though, I merely enjoy a challenge.
Loser posts a thread that the winner is the master?
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lol rich. Im not a subscriber sorry! Go fly against Ack-Ack or Animal .. they are my padawans.
Besides... I think the point is your buff gun accuracy skills not how well you can fly an a6m2 ;) .
I suggest getting ack-ack in a buff's guns and you attack it with an me262 or something :)
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Originally posted by Tac
lol rich. Im not a subscriber sorry! Go fly against Ack-Ack or Animal .. they are my padawans.
Besides... I think the point is your buff gun accuracy skills not how well you can fly an a6m2 ;) .
I suggest getting ack-ack in a buff's guns and you attack it with an me262 or something :)
Oh I get it. You dont actually play you just come into threads, first off you werent involved in, and post that other players, total strangers that you dont know, have skills that suck?
What are you ack acks and animals lawyer now? They arent even involved in the thread.
Hoiw old are you Tac? If your over 18 Im going to put you on ignore. BTW, you "really suck".:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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The way I'm reading these logical explanations is that if your front end detects a collision, you are toast, even if you are flying around minding your own business and some dweeb rams you.
The feeling seems to be that you should be responsible for avoid collisions, even if you are flying level and the guy hits you from behind.
For the life of me then I can't understand why it is fairer that only you should die? Because your front end was more efficient than the other guys?
That's not fair.
Because you didn't take action to move your rear end out of the fighter's way as he zoomed in on you?
That's not fair.
Because the other guy didn't see that his plane was about to give you a propeller enema, so he flew really really close?
Again, not fair.
It seems to me that if two planes collide, two planes die. Always.
Sounds fair to me.
That way if your front end detects, you die. If your front end doesn't detect it, you die.
It doesn't depend on the vagueries of whose detected it first. It encourages everyone to give each other a little room.
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Originally posted by baine1
The way I'm reading these logical explanations is that if your front end detects a collision, you are toast, even if you are flying around minding your own business and some dweeb rams you.
The feeling seems to be that you should be responsible for avoid collisions, even if you are flying level and the guy hits you from behind.
For the life of me then I can't understand why it is fairer that only you should die? Because your front end was more efficient than the other guys?
That's not fair.
You didn't understand collision model at all.
It's not about front end efficiency. Having a fast or slow computer, of a fast or slow connection has nothing to do with collision detection. Nothing.
And yes, YOU are responsible for what's happening on your front end.
And if some dweeb "rams" you = he flies deliberately into your plane on HIS screen, chances are good that only HE will take damage from it.
Originally posted by baine1
It seems to me that if two planes collide, two planes die. Always.
Sounds fair to me.
So? that does sound fair to you?
I can only reprise: You think it's fair if you get a collision when someone is flying 200ft away from you?
'Cause that's gonna happen if "both go down" would be implemented.
Just look at the pics again and keep in mind those two players had quite little lag...
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I love this guy!!!
He opens a thread with "Explain this to me" and then argues with everyone that explains it to him !!! :aok
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
I love this guy!!!
He opens a thread with "Explain this to me" and then argues with everyone that explains it to him !!! :aok
He's just looking for more people to put on ignore. That would be just about any one who disagrees or has an ounce of common sense.
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Originally posted by baine1
The way I'm reading these logical explanations is that if your front end detects a collision, you are toast, even if you are flying around minding your own business and some dweeb rams you.
The feeling seems to be that you should be responsible for avoid collisions, even if you are flying level and the guy hits you from behind.
For the life of me then I can't understand why it is fairer that only you should die? Because your front end was more efficient than the other guys?
That's not fair.
Because you didn't take action to move your rear end out of the fighter's way as he zoomed in on you?
That's not fair.
Because the other guy didn't see that his plane was about to give you a propeller enema, so he flew really really close?
Again, not fair.
It seems to me that if two planes collide, two planes die. Always.
Sounds fair to me.
That way if your front end detects, you die. If your front end doesn't detect it, you die.
It doesn't depend on the vagueries of whose detected it first. It encourages everyone to give each other a little room.
sooo... you want to die when the top picture happens to you?
:huh