Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 68ROX on November 24, 2007, 09:42:17 AM
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You know how CVs are bootable by rank?.....i.e., if a relatively new player with a 3000+ rank decides to steer the cv into a base that has both shore battery's up (or just as bad...steer it right into the enemy's PT boat spawn)...a more experienced player with a lower rank can bring some experience to the situation by booting them and taking over command of the cv, and steer it away from danger?
I believe the same option needs to apply to the 5" guns on all CV's...and here's why...
This is a multiple times a day occurance:
1) CV is sent toward enemy base.
2) Just as enemy planes spot it, folks with 3000+ ranks who can't hit the broadside of a barn with a basketball flock to the 5" guns like moths to a lightbulb...blocking anyone else from using them
3) Enemy planes and bombers fly in basically unopposed as unskilled gunners squat in 5"ers...shooting at P-51's that have already dropped ther eggs and missed...instead of the B26's that are now less than 6K out...(just now, the gunners in the 5" didn't even fire on the B26's until they were 3K out.....and had already dropped their eggs.)
4) Bombs whistle down.........and cv dies and sinks.
5) Said gunners go to yet another cv and do the same thing all over again.
HTC....PLEASE make the 5" guns on CVs BOOTABLE based on rank.
When a critical base take is underway, and bombers or heavy fighters are inbound to the cv....do you really want to trust the future of the entire operation (or even a large mission) to the 3000 rank guy in the 5"ers as the bombers come in?
I'd want the option to boot 'em and take over the 5" and kill the bombers before they kill us.
Please do not move this topic to the Wishlist Forum, and it will get lost and never get addressed.
If there is an option for a more experienced countryman to take over and save a cv...it only makes sense that the same should apply to the 5" guns that defend it as well.
68ROX
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how can a newbie gain experience if they keep getting booted out of the guns?
i do see your point though about newbie's not killing the attacker's quickly enough or not at all.
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S!
gotta disagree on that ideal. there are lots of restrictions already that take away from the fun of the game. (ENY, map caps, un-capturable bases)
imho, we dont need another. as usual, the cv will be bombed by buffs and it will respawn and hopefully those in the fight will just laugh and smile and play on :)
S!
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I want, I want, I want......
Mine, mine, MINE, MiNe, miNE, MinE...
It really is fine the way it is.
Ren
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Experienced players wouldnt have to worry so much about manning 5in guns if there were say, oh a few fighters at 10k over the CV waiting for the inevitable bomber strike.
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Originally posted by 68ROX
HTC....PLEASE make the 5" guns on CVs BOOTABLE based on rank.
I don't care for this, and here's why...
How is a new player going to develop the gunning skills required if a higher ranking player kicks them out every time enemy aircraft show up?
Everyone is entitled to the same opportunities to play.
My only complaint about how CVs are managed is that no one should be able to control a CV unless they are physically within the radar circle or aboard one of the ships in the formation, as a minimum. This would prevent anyone from redirecting a CV why they are sitting in a tower on the opposite side of the map.
In fact, I'd like to see more reality in that to command a CV, you must be aboard the CV or the Cruiser. Not flying, and not running LVTs. A simple way to do that is if you have command (in the Task Group command menu on the clipboard), spawning any plane or vehicle is disabled. If no one commands the CV (in the menu), then you can redirect the CV if within the radar circle, but not take command (so that your name appears in the command menu).
My regards,
Widewing
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S!
hiyas widewing! (109 dweeb) :D
S!
good points btw.....
i dont think there is really a good fix that will benefit all. the cv wil die. no matter how many man the guns or cap, it will be sunk. just something that people need to accept.
S!
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Why? Just to make a CV last 5 minutes longer?
CVs die anyway no matter what the gunner. All the gunner is doing is extending the time on it being up by killing bombers and jabo planes. Sooner or later a jabo plane will sneak in and kill a couple 5" guns, and now it is open for full attack.
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Is there instruction somewhere on how to properly use the 5 inch guns? And please don't respond with "search is your friend" or "try the trainers page". I will do both but often there are old threads that are hard to find. I can find things on my own, but it's not always very easy.
68ROX,
How about tips on how to use them rather then suggest that new players not use them. :)
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Whoops, guess Ishould have looked before I posted. There is a section on the Trainers page on task force operations that includes a writeup on ship and shore guns.
I'm in the around 3,000 rank group but I try to learn a little before I jump into something different. I agree with Widewing that those of us who are less experienced should be allowed to learn by experience in the game. I would also encourage the less experienced to put in a little study and practice time before jumping in. I will definately read the stuff on the trainers page before I jump in a 5 inch gun. Sorry 68ROX but I'll have to try one now. :)
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Originally posted by Condor
Is there instruction somewhere on how to properly use the 5 inch guns? And please don't respond with "search is your friend" or "try the trainers page". I will do both but often there are old threads that are hard to find. I can find things on my own, but it's not always very easy.
Unfortunately, there is no resource that can teach you how to lead targets with a 5" gun. I always recommend going offline and practice shooting at the drones with a 5" gun, until you can hit them consistently.
Basically, you need to adjust for two factors: Angle and elevation. You need to learn how much drop there is at varying ranges. Likewise, you need to learn how much lead is required at varying ranges. Both are learned by doing. Thus, like just about every other aspect of the game, you learn via experience.
My regards,
Widewing
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Just say "NO" to bootable gun positions. all we need is another opportunity for rank bullies to squash someone who is trying to have fun.
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I have a superb rank and can't hit squat with 5". Go figure.
I shouldn't be able to boot someone from a gun just because I bomb a few factories each tour ;)
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I disagree. New players need a chance to learn.
If it's a critical mission that the CV is on you could always jump in the 5" guns BEFORE the CV gets to the point it's likely to be spotted. There's no penalty for doing so. There have been times I've jumped into a 5" or 8" while the CV was still out of range of the target just to make sure I got my favorite gun position.
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I would think the realistic objective would be to make sure whoever is playing has a chance to have a good time. Nobody likes someone who has more time to play the game, or know the tricks to rank, to dictate what they can do ingame.
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In my experience there are plenty of low ranked individuals that don't really deserve that rank. Why would you want to reward someone for gaming the system? Can you imagine the whining?
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whats next ..booting me out of my own plane 'cause i have a better shot but you have better rank...?
you can't learn the piano by watching some one play it.
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Originally posted by Widewing
I don't care for this, and here's why...
How is a new player going to develop the gunning skills required if a higher ranking player kicks them out every time enemy aircraft show up?
Everyone is entitled to the same opportunities to play.
My only complaint about how CVs are managed is that no one should be able to control a CV unless they are physically within the radar circle or aboard one of the ships in the formation, as a minimum. This would prevent anyone from redirecting a CV why they are sitting in a tower on the opposite side of the map.
In fact, I'd like to see more reality in that to command a CV, you must be aboard the CV or the Cruiser. Not flying, and not running LVTs. A simple way to do that is if you have command (in the Task Group command menu on the clipboard), spawning any plane or vehicle is disabled. If no one commands the CV (in the menu), then you can redirect the CV if within the radar circle, but not take command (so that your name appears in the command menu).
My regards,
Widewing
:aok
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Originally posted by 68ROX
words
68ROX
This is the kind of elitist crap that should not be here. What happened to the old days of training the new guys how to do things instead of saying "GET OUT OF MY SPOT/GUN/CLASS/PLANE NOOB!!!"
Help and support the new guys, they will be your future prey soon enough. You do want a good fight, right?
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hi ROX
despite your views being mostly poo-pooed here, for good reasons, i would suggest the real problem is something else.
Now it is my understanding that using the 5" guns is about as challenging as smoking a cig or drinking a beer. usualy when i gun on a CV i am smoking a cig and drinking a beer :) even a totaly new player could hit a few buffs after 10 mins practice.
The real problem is the UK daytime milk runners. people using second accounts to lock up CV possitions and waypoints so they can WIN TEH WAR!
anyone who does this is beyond pathetic, imo.
saying that, i dont let it bother me one bit. just laugh and smile, like Dadrabit said :)
S!
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How good would any "vet" be if at some point the game was modified so only the experienced players got to use the kewl stuff.
Let the new guys play for crying out loud. Like only a select few manning the guns are really going to make a difference in the "war"
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Originally posted by Widewing
...
My only complaint about how CVs are managed is that no one should be able to control a CV unless they are physically within the radar circle or aboard one of the ships in the formation, as a minimum. This would prevent anyone from redirecting a CV why they are sitting in a tower on the opposite side of the map.
In fact, I'd like to see more reality in that to command a CV, you must be aboard the CV or the Cruiser...
Yes (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=219392) Glad to see someone else agrees and here it is Widewing! Cool!
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Originally posted by Condor
Is there instruction somewhere on how to properly use the 5 inch guns? And please don't respond with "search is your friend" or "try the trainers page".
Originally posted by Widewing
Unfortunately, there is no resource that can teach you how to lead targets with a 5" gun. I always recommend going offline and practice shooting at the drones with a 5" gun, until you can hit them consistently.
Basically, you need to adjust for two factors: Angle and elevation. You need to learn how much drop there is at varying ranges. Likewise, you need to learn how much lead is required at varying ranges. Both are learned by doing. Thus, like just about every other aspect of the game, you learn via experience.
My regards,
Widewing
I've found a little time offline, with the Lead Computing Gunsight enabled, can get you in the ballpark and help learn what lead you need to hit targets with the 5' gun.
Further, a friend in the TA at higher altitudes or even in bomber formations, again using the LCG, can further refine your gunnery skills in a 5" gun.
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Never would work... noobs need luv too
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disable ai puffy ack and make all 5" guns on all ships in the fleet manable. everybody wins.
p.s. death2puffyflakcoad
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Bad idea.
The "more experienced" players are the same tards who hide the CVs rather than engage them in action.
As for the guns, first come, first serve. Get over yourself.
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I am always amazed at how serious some people take this game.
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I dont like privilage by rank....
if you want to make the 5" guns precious then perk them..........
I like the idea of CV captains having to remain in dar range to keep their captaincy.
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i think they should not be manable at all unless they are singles
;)
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Originally posted by Widewing
IA simple way to do that is if you have command (in the Task Group command menu on the clipboard), spawning any plane or vehicle is disabled. If no one commands the CV (in the menu), then you can redirect the CV if within the radar circle, but not take command (so that your name appears in the command menu)
Puts the kibosh on taking a BN2 to hover above fleet and eyeball action. Thanks for that idea in your excellent essay on CV ops!
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Is it just me or anyone else member the day when a skilled cv crew could role 5 bases with little damage to our CV? I have not seen that too often since the arena splits.
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ATTENTION: I figured out what they (six players) were doing about 4 hours after my original post when I finally stumbled across the channel they were using.
It turns out it was not a case of INDIVIDUALS who were doing this, but an organized act of in-game sabotage by six (they all seemed to know each other) players.
Not exactly a scientific plan...but here's what they were doing...
Just how easy is it for more experienced players to convince less experienced, (ok...KIDS) to agree to do the following:
A) Defect to the enemy, identify the locations of the enemy CV groups and PM them the exact locations.
B) Get into the 5" guns ASAP (LONG before there is any percieved threat to that CV) and sit there...when the time comes that someone wants to use them to defend the cv...they are blocked from doing so.
C) Make it look like you are firing at attacking planes, but don't shoot down the bombers. That makes it "look" like you are attempting to defend, when in reality, it's sabbotage.
The CV gets whacked everytime, and the spy crew keeps doing it all day until the 12 hour ban is up, and then goes home.
I wittnessed this go on all day yesterday...complete with range radio traffic between the rogue defectors.
My proposal from the original post would help stop this, and my request for bumpable 5" guns based on rank still stands.
In a nutshell, we may not be able to do anything to keep the high school defector groups from coming over and spying on CV locations...but in a small way, could help US from letting THEM from taking our 5" defense guns hostage.
If you don't mind the enemy pulling A, B, & C on you all day, then you are right and I am wrong.
I'm just trying to help each country to help defend itself from some shady players who do stuff like this.
68ROX
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Well, who were the infamous 6?
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I agree the newbies need all the practice they can get, especially when i'm taking off or fighting close to CV and get hit by my own 5inch ack.
Think entire wings of terror squad got shot at by 5 inch, wasn't sure if it was a bish spy or just some dumb kid shooting at friendlies for kicks.
anyhow we already have low ranks running the CV's whats sad is fact some don't know how to use a CV and they can control where it goes.
I won't say names but jerk had to take a CV from me and place it on top of a PT boat spawn, not the brightest idea cletus.
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I would LOVE to mention each and every CPID of these guys but I would get flagged by forum rules.
A couple were zipcode guys but a couple were folks I was dissapointed in.
I WILL say they were rook in LW Orange on Saturday, none had a rank higher than 2000, which is why I still recommend the change.
It seems some folks are talking new folks into being their spy/sabotage stooges.
I think this is totally Bush League gameplay.
68ROX
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Forward films to htc. That's an even easier fix.
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Ghastly....
Nice Idea, but not what they officially call the "C" word.
Shady play and the "C" word play are 2 different issues.
I refused to used the "C" word in the original post because of that.
I do not wish to have the ire of the mods ban my issue over a word.
What I see is a prime example of players using a hole in the system to gain an advantage.
Either have country hopping be a 2 or 4 week rule or have 5" guns on cv be bootable by rank.
Until then...we are all victims of having our CV's held hostage by the gullible high school crowd.
If you disagree let me know....
I have a great answer for ya.
68ROX
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Originally posted by 68ROX
Ghastly....
Nice Idea, but not what they officially call the "C" word.
Shady play and the "C" word play are 2 different issues.
I refused to used the "C" word in the original post because of that.
I do not wish to have the ire of the mods ban my issue over a word.
What I see is a prime example of players using a hole in the system to gain an advantage.
Either have country hopping be a 2 or 4 week rule or have 5" guns on cv be bootable by rank.
Until then...we are all victims of having our CV's held hostage by the gullible high school crowd.
If you disagree let me know....
I have a great answer for ya.
68ROX
Because players with the best ranking are less likely to use loopholes in the system? :lol
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BTW : Ghastly ((<
>))
We're talking about Busch League/Slime Ball Game play...not coding "C" word...so odds of HTC responding, much less makeing a difference means they won't do jack....unless we demand it of them as a group who are sick of shady game-play.
I personally believe that the above mentionted play is slime induced.
If you disagree, please let me know....as well as your counrty....
So I can start training/teaching/execution the same slimeball tactics against you, making your CV's worthless....unless HTC will intervene with a way to stop it.
Your call.
I'm more than happy to start a SKUMBAG Operations Group
68ROX
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
Because players with the best ranking are less likely to use loopholes in the system? :lol
No....just sucker nubs into doing it for them
Plain & simple.
Some folks just are too lazy to read.
68ROX
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Actually, I think that if you have film of the "out-of-school" tactics - I hate to use the "C" word for it, but it comes darn close in my book - then HTC would be likely to address it with the players involved.
I actually rather doubt that the "new" players using these tactics are really new players that are being "suckered" into poor sportsmanlike game play by more experienced players - I find it much more believable that they are probably alias accounts being used for such.
I personally don't have a strong opinion either way whether the guns should be rank-bootable or not - I see both sides of the issue as problematic. On the other hand, I DO strongly empathize with your frustration.
I also believe that a player that is ON the CV and wants to "drive" should be heavily favored over a player that's no where near it.
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Originally posted by 68ROX
unless we demand it of them as a group who are sick of shady game-play.
After having met Dale (HiTech) at 2 different cons ... Arrogance and "demanding" anything from him is not going to work out to well for you ... no matter how many people stand behind you ... as a matter of fact, it would probably result in the complete 180 of what you want.
Step back from the keyboard ... take 10 deeeeeep breaths and repeat 10 times ... "This is only a game".
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High ranking players I would suspect may be just as likely to be a dweeb as low ranking one. Like others, how would anyone gain experience. You are assuming that a number that can be gamed easily is grading a person on skill and oddly, not being a dweeb. Personally, I'd rather have all those uber sticks flying cover for the CV, than sitting on a 5in. Honestly, doesn't really matter who is on the 5in anyway. CV's tend not to last very long, and when they do, it's not because Jesus is sitting on the black ack. Also, making it longer to change a country solves nothing. PM everything, splits squads into country's. The only thing making making it longer to change sides would accomplish would be to make a number imbalance and make people unhappy....like the squads who are generally seen looking to fly with the side with the lowest numbers.
People game the game on every level, from goons to field ack, to cv ack now. Just another problem from guys who just must win the war at all costs, because it is that important. It doesn't make it right, but in the process, we shouldn't be asking for changes that could have a large negative effect the other 95% of the people who just enjoy the game.
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Originally posted by pluck
High ranking players I would suspect may be just as likely to be a dweeb as low ranking one. Like others, how would anyone gain experience. You are assuming that a number that can be gamed easily is grading a person on skill and oddly, not being a dweeb. Personally, I'd rather have all those uber sticks flying cover for the CV, than sitting on a 5in. Honestly, doesn't really matter who is on the 5in anyway. CV's tend not to last very long, and when they do, it's not because Jesus is sitting on the black ack. Also, making it longer to change a country solves nothing. PM everything, splits squads into country's. The only thing making making it longer to change sides would accomplish would be to make a number imbalance and make people unhappy....like the squads who are generally seen looking to fly with the side with the lowest numbers.
People game the game on every level, from goons to field ack, to cv ack now. Just another problem from guys who just must win the war at all costs, because it is that important. It doesn't make it right, but in the process, we shouldn't be asking for changes that could have a large negative effect the other 95% of the people who just enjoy the game.
One good stick in a 5" can defend a CV from attack, more can make it unstopable, I know, I have done it.
Last night I landed 11 kills in one sortie with the 5". I got bored and gave up command and my 5" and took to the air. In less than 10 min, the CV was down. I am not saying I am uber or anything, but all it takes is a few good players and the CV will last, all you have to do is try.