Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DiabloTX on November 27, 2007, 03:53:31 PM
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...has now grown into "urban guerilla warfare" with youths asking for "This is a war. There is no mercy. We want two cops dead."
Riot violence is escalating in France, police groups say
VILLIERS-LE-BEL, France: Dodging rocks and projectiles, the police lined the streets of this tense suburb Tuesday where angry youths have vowed to seek revenge for the deaths of two teenagers who died in a collision with a police car.
Police union officials warned that the violence was escalating into urban guerrilla warfare with shotguns aimed at officers - a rare sight in the last major outbreak of suburban unrest, in 2005.
More than 80 officers were injured Monday night - four of them as a result of gunfire - and the rage was still simmering Tuesday afternoon. Inside the city hall of Villiers-le-Bel, a group of visiting mayors appealed for calm while police officers dodged rocks outside.
"We are sitting targets," said Sophie Bar, a local police officer who stood guard outside the city hall. "They were throwing rocks at us and it was impossible to see where they came from. They just came raining over the roof."
The violence was triggered by the deaths of two teenagers on a motorbike who were killed in a crash with a police car Sunday night. The scene, with angry youths targeting the police mostly with firebombs, rocks and other projectiles, was reminiscent of three weeks of rioting in 2005
But senior police officials warned that the violence was more intense this time.
"Things have changed since 2005," said Joachim Masanet, secretary general of the police wing of the UNSA trade union. "We have crossed a red line. When these kids aim their guns at police officers, they want to kill them. They are no longer afraid to shoot a policeman. We are only on the second day since the accident, and already they are shooting guns at the police."
Some young men stood by the charred timbers of the town's police station, laughing and surveying the damage.
Cem, 18, of Turkish origin, declined to give his name because he feared police reprisals. But he and his friend Karim, of Algerian descent, said they both had participated in rioting over the past two days.
"That's just the beginning," Cem said. "This is a war. There is no mercy. We want two cops dead."
"The police brought this on themselves," Karim added. "They will regret it."
Six of the officers hurt in the clashes Monday were in serious condition, according to Francis Debuire, a police union official. Four were wounded by gunfire, including one who lost an eye and another who suffered a shattered shoulder. Twenty-five officers were injured Sunday night.
The biggest risk, the police say, is that the violence will spread. In 2005, unrest cascaded through more than 300 towns, leaving 10,000 cars burned and 4,700 people arrested.
As night fell in Villiers-le-Bel, the anxiety was evident. Strangers warned people to hide their portable telephones because youths were snatching them on the street. People hurried to their homes, while some gathered in knots on street corners. Police helicopters circling public housing developments spotted stockpiles of rocks stacked along the roofs.
Naim Masoud, 39, a teaching assistant in Villiers-le-Bel, said that, in her school, even 8-year-old children talked about racism and discrimination by the police.
"It will take a lot more than riot police to cure this neighborhood," she said. "These children feel like foreigners. It is inexcusable what they are doing, but the seeds are deep."
Some of the fiercest clashes Monday took place near a bakery where one of the dead, a 16-year-old known only as Larami because his identity has not been made public, was an apprentice.
Habib Friaa, the owner of the bakery, said Larami had been highly regarded.
"It's quite something to say goodbye to somebody on Saturday and learn two days later that he died. We're like a family here because we're a small business," Friaa said, noting that Larami "was not a delinquent. He was somebody who was learning our profession and he was serious."
All of this over an accident that apparently wasn't intentional? Is there some sort of growing racism in France that has boiled over into full fledged urban warfare?
Link (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/27/europe/france.php)
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My heart goes out to those that have to put up with this.
I have a question for our Frenchmen on this board. Honestly are these "youths" Muslim or part of specific group or are they just angry teenagers and 20 somethings?
I'm just assuming there that political correctness is afraid to call a spade a spade.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
My heart goes out to those that have to put up with this.
I have a question for our Frenchmen on this board. Honestly are these "youths" Muslim or part of specific group or are they just angry teenagers and 20 somethings?
I'm just assuming there that political correctness is afraid to call a spade a spade.
Ageed... too many folks just flat lie to themselves... it's called political correctness. A term developed by weak minds to cover their ineptitude.
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You have to wonder if someone is pushing these kids buttons from behind the scenes:
Police helicopters circling public housing developments spotted stockpiles of rocks stacked along the roofs.
This would indicate some forward planning and organisation is occuring.
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Just goes to show that Idiots by any nationality are still idiots.
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Originally posted by Shuffler
Ageed... too many folks just flat lie to themselves... it's called political correctness. A term developed by weak minds to cover their ineptitude.
Not that the "strong-minded" opposite extreme of presumptive reasoning to rationalize one's prejudices and bias doesn't exist.
Then there's actually examining. to Gunslinger for at least asking. I'd like to hear some answers before I let my leg jerk. :)
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Originally posted by RedTop
Just goes to show that Idiots by any nationality are still idiots.
Common reason.
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Winter-2005, then a New-Year train, now - this. Time to use machine-guns and maybe even napalm on that parasites? In 1969 it was OK and now it's politically incorrect?
It seems to me that hey are "protesting" for their rights to live on welfare and steal, rob and murder. Against having a job. Stupid white people have to work to pay them.
I am happy that we don;t have ethnic enclaves in Moscow.
Certain ethnic groups believing that other citizens "owe" them should be quickly and effectively led into the Party line.
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The immigrant youth come from poor families, live in poor neighborhoods, and have a cultural background that is known for its frequent display of violent protesting. This is the French version of the LA riots.
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Originally posted by Viking
The immigrant youth come from poor families, live in poor neighborhoods, and have a cultural background that is known for its frequent display of violent protesting. This is the French version of the LA riots.
Ok, you said "who's to blame", now we come to "what to do". (sorry for this joke that only a Russian can understand, but nevertheless).
I say - use ethnically-different troops to pacify them.
My Cousin was one of the cadets sent to Baku in Jan 1990. That case was quite different, but stopping Azeris from slaughtering Armenians could be only done by military force, in that case - Slavic/Baltic soldiers. Gorby will rot in hell because he was maybe a week too late to send troops there to restore order, so all Armenian minority that lived in Baku for centuries was either slaughtered or ran away abandoning all their possessions. I have a friend who had to cross Azerbaijan/Russia (Dagestan) border in a Lada boot.
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If the french police just stop the discrimination and hate all will be well.
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Originally posted by AKIron
If the french police just stop the discrimination and hate all will be well.
If they'll just start doing what they are payed for.
But they just can't - they belong to same ethnic groups. At least some of them.
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I'm sure you know I was being sarcastic Boroda. I admit it was a cheap jab. The cops involved in the accident ran away from it probably because they feared for their lives. I think France is not all that different from the USA, it will be interesting to see how they deal with an increasing subculture(s).
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Originally posted by AKIron
I'm sure you know I was being sarcastic Boroda. I admit it was a cheap jab. The cops involved in the accident ran away from it probably because they feared for their lives. I think France is not all that different from the USA, it will be interesting to see how they deal with an increasing subculture(s).
Sorry I didn't understand the sarcasm, I am from alien culture and speak "languages who's continuation I don't know". :( (i hope you see i am sarcastic towards myself here)
In my neighborhood, North of Msk, Rechnoy Vokzal, I had a Chechen "blockfuhrer" (a Militia officer in charge of my block, I tried to find a closest term from Western languages), he didn't learn Russian in like 10 years. Back in the 90s we had Chechen gangsters controlling the district, all with legal firearms, all - Militia employees. (Militia = Police here). After 1999 apartment bombings they suddenly disappeared. I don't believe in sanity of our authorities, but they got rid of parasites in law-enforcement, so we don't have ethnic organized crime ruling.
I don't mean that ethnic Russians are any better, but at least they follow OUR traditions and don't see the majority of population as "pigs", "dogs" or "heathens". I have some skills, and I can talk to Caucasians (people who came from Caucasus, not just white race), and make them respect me, but I have spent my teenage summers there, and had my Father as a teacher. Most of Muscovites don't have such skills, and I don;t want our women to learn it.
I can imagine such a riot in some proletarian district like Tekstilschiki, I feel a little scared there walking over deadly drunk people in the middle of the day, it's a place populated with workers from huge automobile factories that are locked out now, so elders earn money for renting rooms to Caucasians who sell heroin to their kids, and that's all, thanks to our Freedom and Democracy. But if this Caucasians (churki) will try to riot - they'll have severe problems. And no corrupt police will save them, We'll have something 180 degrees from what they got in France.
The length of my sentences gets closer and closer to Tolstoy :(
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Interesting Boroda but I don't know what you mean when you say you would have a situation 180 degrees from that of France. No rioting?
It dawned on me, perhaps heavy handed dealing with ther rioters?
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I'll comment later, gotta run.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Interesting Boroda but I don't know what you mean when you say you would have a situation 180 degrees from that of France. No rioting?
It dawned on me, perhaps heavy handed dealing with ther rioters?
Maybe that or the majority of the population will protest against the "subcultures".
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How surprising, it's again the people of middle eastern origin rioting. Apparently this is why they have harsh punishments in the middle east - otherwise they couldn't keep the people from rioting over there.
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In 2004 we had the Redfern riots when an Aboriginal teenager was killed trying to escape from pursing Police, and in 2005 the Macquarie Fields riots when 2 teenagers were killed in a stolen car while being pursued by Police...
neither areas are predominantly Muslim - or controlled by dark evil overlords....but both areas are low income, and have relatively high unemployment which seems to breed grudges against police
Tronsky
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Originally posted by -tronski-
In 2004 we had the Redfern riots when an Aboriginal teenager was killed trying to escape from pursing Police, and in 2005 the Macquarie Fields riots when 2 teenagers were killed in a stolen car while being pursued by Police...
neither areas are predominantly Muslim - or controlled by dark evil overlords....but both areas are low income, and have relatively high unemployment which seems to breed grudges against police
Tronsky
Both times fleeing from the police, eh? Sounds like a welfare state subculture that's used to having it's way. Wow, does that ever sound familiar.
According to what I've read online the 2 boys killed in France HIT the police car, not the other way around. And now the whole "Little North Africa" culture wants the heads of 2 cops.
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The situation is very similar to tronski description except it's not Aboriginal but a mix of different origin.
I think it's likely only pauperised population of young people having a strong attraction for the gang (à la Los Angeles) "myth".
There is as far as I understand no political or religious* agenda behind.
*and no intellectual :p
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Originally posted by Fishu
How surprising, it's again the people of middle eastern origin rioting. Apparently this is why they have harsh punishments in the middle east - otherwise they couldn't keep the people from rioting over there.
From the way I understand it, it has little to do with the lack of harsh punishments (though that may be a cause). But rather it has to do with the gangs of paris wanting to control and govern themselves under their own set of rules, and not under french law. The death of the two teenagers is nothing more then the spark / excuse they were waiting for to start.
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But rather it has to do with the gangs of paris wanting to control and govern themselves under their own set of rules, and not under french law. The death of the two teenagers is nothing more then the spark / excuse they were waiting for to start.
For the very first time i can say that i agree with Lasersailor...
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Originally posted by AKIron
Interesting Boroda but I don't know what you mean when you say you would have a situation 180 degrees from that of France. No rioting?
It dawned on me, perhaps heavy handed dealing with ther rioters?
I hope to be wrong but it wouldn't be just heavy dealing with the rioters. Hundreds of innocent people of this origin will be dead all over the country. Women, children, old men.
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to protest is one thing, to riot, another. As far as Im concerned: if someone is involved in a riot then that someone deserves whatever law enforcement shoots their way.
Protest? yes. Riot? no.
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Originally posted by Vad
I hope to be wrong but it wouldn't be just heavy dealing with the rioters. Hundreds of innocent people of this origin will be dead all over the country. Women, children, old men.
I can only hope that it won't happen. "Pogrom" is not a Russian word.
We are quite fed up with ethnic gangs. I don't want Msk to turn into something like Chechnya 1991-94. And I don't want to become an alien in my own city.
So far all attempts to hang recent terror acts on "russian skinheads" fail.