Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on November 28, 2007, 02:02:57 PM
-
is what this might be called?
Seems a new color is becoming popular for firearms...
http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/112507/loc_112507065.shtml
Gander Mountain claims their out!
-
Guess who must have one to match his shorts. :)
-
Yes, they are a "must have". Kill stuff with a kinder gentler weapon.
;)
-
Are they sure it's not Candy Mountain?
-
Those would be perfect for home defense, particularly at night since they would match my underwear.
-
hahahaha :) pink guns...
Short story... Last year I decided to update my cell phone as mine was pretty dated feature wise. So, I go to the cell phone store for my carrier and as I was browsing and comparing features and prices a salesman approached me and exclaimed "I have just the phone for you!" and from behind his back he revealed this...
(http://www.samstores.com/_images/products/kg800%20pink.jpg)
I smiled and informed him that Razr cell phone was obviously a cell phone for a little girl and that I gave up my preference for pink somewhere in middle school! and smiled.
I bought this one...
(http://www.utstar.com/pcd/images/Views/XV-6700-front-closed.jpg)
When men want to market something to women they should ask us what we want, not just assume if they make it pink we will all want buy it because it is pink! :rofl
Were I to ever buy a hand gun I would primarily be interested in three things...
1. light weight... my purse is heavy enough as it is.
2. fits my hand size.
3. Resale value in case I didn't like having it later.
I think a pink gun would look more like a toy to children and attackers.
Both these groups should see a gun for what it really is... a deadly weapon which can hurt or kill.
TIGERESS
Edit: I thought this submarine was cute and love the movie it was in... any guesses?
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/Tigeress_ah/petticoat3.jpg)
-
You may have bought a Pocket PC but I bet the first thing you did was to change the display color theme to Hello Kitty. Don’t even try to deny it.
-
Originally posted by eskimo2
You may have bought a Pocket PC but I bet the first thing you did was to change the display color theme to Hello Kitty. Don’t even try to deny it.
hahaha... you know Eskimo, I did buy a very cute little Hello Kitty tassel for it in Japan last week as a souvenir but the phone didn't have an eyelet for such a thing!
Shoot... I will have to attach the HK tassel to my pocket book zipper instead. :aok
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
hahahaha :) pink guns...
(http://www.utstar.com/pcd/images/Views/XV-6700-front-closed.jpg)
I think a pink gun would look more like a toy to children and attackers.
Both these groups should see a gun for what it really is... a deadly weapon which can hurt or kill.
TIGERESS
Edit: I thought this submarine was cute and love the movie it was in... any guesses?
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/Tigeress_ah/petticoat3.jpg)
Nice choice in phones - i could not agree more about the gun color for the reasons you stated. Can you see a 4'11'' 95lb female cop draw a pink gun?
The movie... operation petticoat, sub name - sea tiger... star - cary grant... my personal fave.
-
Check out the Ted Nugent signature series AK-47 assault guitar;
(http://www.blavish.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/rifle-guitar-9-22-2006.jpg)
-
I love that guitar!!! Ted positively is THE MAN! I saw one in the 80's that was custom made in atlanta to resemble an M-60... Had a ammo belt and all...
-
I saw some pink rifles at Gander Mtn. for youths when I was looking awhile back. Too small for me though:(
-
Well Pink guns must have an apeal to someone, since they claim they are selling out?
Maybe Euros who have moved here?:D
-
Originally posted by Mr No Name
Nice choice in phones - i could not agree more about the gun color for the reasons you stated. Can you see a 4'11'' 95lb female cop draw a pink gun?
The movie... operation petticoat, sub name - sea tiger... star - cary grant... my personal fave.
Thanks Mr. No Name, I love that cell phone and gave it the host name BumbleBee... everyone who sees it marvels at it when I show bumblebee to them.
Just say no to pink guns! :rofl perhaps a gold or chrome plated one would be ok.
I went looking for a light enough looking one just now just to see and found a web site for the magazine called Women & Guns:
(http://www.womenandguns.com/history/0598.jpg)
This one looks light enough...
(http://www.conjay.com/NAA_Guardian_32_003.JPG)
You know your movies! ;) I adore that movie!!!! and have had a crush on Cary Grant like forever. I laugh every time I remember the sound of its engine... sounded like a screwed up commode flushing! hahahahahaha
Loved him in the movie Father Goose too... "Goody Two Shoes and the Filthy Beast?" :rofl
(http://www.wwiilectureinstitute.com/films/goose.jpg)
TIGERESS
-
Tigress,
Do not focus on the size or weight of the gun to the exclusion of other factors. A very light gun tends to have more recoil making it hard to shoot. That leads to lack of practice and inability to hit the target. If you are interested I recommend you seek training. Take a CCW class. You don't have to get the ccw permit unless you want it, but take the class and then train further.
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Tigress,
Do not focus on the size or weight of the gun to the exclusion of other factors. A very light gun tends to have more recoil making it hard to shoot. That leads to lack of practice and inability to hit the target. If you are interested I recommend you seek training. Take a CCW class. You don't have to get the ccw permit unless you want it, but take the class and then train further.
What is a CCW class, Mav?
I think I understand what you are saying about weight and size... thing is, a heavy purse is extremely burdensome.
TIGERESS
-
Tigress,
I have about 800 movies on DVD now, including 50+ cary grant flicks... I collect movies by him, jimmy stewart, kate hepburn, adam sandler... a lot of others
-
Concealed Carry Weapon. Take a look at Springfield XDs -- might be one just the size and caliber perfect for your requirements.
-
I have a pink gun. It is ready to fire in or out of the bush!
-
I noticed the Pistol in Pink was a Taurus. So fitting.
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
What is a CCW class, Mav?
I think I understand what you are saying about weight and size... thing is, a heavy purse is extremely burdensome.
TIGERESS
As already posted. ccw = carry concealed weapon.
Yep a purse can be heavy, unless you purge the contents. That's an operator function. A very light purse won't do you a bit of good if you won't practice with a nasty recoil light weapon and can't hit the target when needed. Assuming that you were thinking about carrying a weapon to begin with.
-
Originally posted by Mr No Name
Tigress,
I have about 800 movies on DVD now, including 50+ cary grant flicks... I collect movies by him, jimmy stewart, kate hepburn, adam sandler... a lot of others
Very Cool!
Cary has sex appeal that is in a class by itself...
Speaking of Kate Hepburn whom I idolize... African Queen. Love that movie. Jimmy Stewart is one of my favs also.
Enjoyed Adam Sandler in 50 First Dates... real sweetie-pie!
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Maverick
As already posted. ccw = carry concealed weapon.
Yep a purse can be heavy, unless you purge the contents. That's an operator function. A very light purse won't do you a bit of good if you won't practice with a nasty recoil light weapon and can't hit the target when needed. Assuming that you were thinking about carrying a weapon to begin with.
Oh, Ok... didn't notice ccw had been defined previously, thanks.
I actually don't have any interest in having a gun but have shot some under supervision and although loud it was fun. Got a very nasty shoulder bruise from shooting a 12 gauge shotgun when I was young... that hurt.
Doesn't the size of the bullets affect kick? That shotgun had very big shells and it kicked very hard. The 22 I shot didn't really kick much at all.
TIGERESS
-
Years ago I said that if they had made the AK47 and ar series of carbines in pink only then there never would have been an "assault rifle" ban.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
Oh, Ok... didn't notice ccw had been defined previously, thanks.
I actually don't have any interest in having a gun but have shot some under supervision and although loud it was fun. Got a very nasty shoulder bruise from shooting a 12 gauge shotgun when I was young... that hurt.
Doesn't the size of the bullets affect kick? That shotgun had very big shells and it kicked very hard. The 22 I shot didn't really kick much at all.
TIGERESS
Felt recoil is a factor of several things. Size (weight) of projectile, amount of powder to move the round to a specific velocity and the weight of the gun firing it are some of them. Generally the lighter a gun is, the more recoil you will feel for a given caliber. If you shoot one of the ultra light titanium revolvers in a caliber like .357 it will be very unpleasant. Shooting the same round in a S&W model 28 will be far different as the gun is much heavier and takes up more of the recoil pulse due to that mass.
Picking a gun to carry just because it is light means you are less likely to practice and will be less accurate because shooting it is unpleasant. That is assuming you have a gun of a reasonable caliber and not a very small one to mitigate the recoil function. While any gun is better than no gun when in extremis, having a gun with an effective cartridge is better yet.
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Felt recoil is a factor of several things. Size (weight) of projectile, amount of powder to move the round to a specific velocity and the weight of the gun firing it are some of them. Generally the lighter a gun is, the more recoil you will feel for a given caliber. If you shoot one of the ultra light titanium revolvers in a caliber like .357 it will be very unpleasant. Shooting the same round in a S&W model 28 will be far different as the gun is much heavier and takes up more of the recoil pulse due to that mass.
Picking a gun to carry just because it is light means you are less likely to practice and will be less accurate because shooting it is unpleasant. That is assuming you have a gun of a reasonable caliber and not a very small one to mitigate the recoil function. While any gun is better than no gun when in extremis, having a gun with an effective cartridge is better yet.
Ok, makes sense.. would a 32 like that gun in the picture be effective for self-defense? How much kick would that gun have?
TIGERESS
A bit of googling revealed this...
from --> http://www.naaminis.com/32NAA.html
(http://www.naaminis.com/pix/32naa.jpg)
(http://www.naaminis.com/pix/corbon01.jpg)
Specifications:
Caliber: .32 NAA
Magazine Capacity: 6+1
Operation: Double Action Only
Material: 17-4 pH stainless steel
Barrel Length: 2.49"
Height: 3.53"
Overall Length: 4.75"
Width: 0.930"
Weight: 18.72 ozs. unloaded
Suggested Retail Price: $449.00
Trigger Pull: 10.0 LBS.
[This Bullet] Produces more velocity, more energy and more stopping power than any conventional jacketed lead hollow point (JHP) 32 ACP, 380 ACP or 380 ACP (+P) with 15% less recoil (Power Factor) than the (+P),
A lot of that is greek to me... but it is sort of sexy looking and not too big.
TIGERESS
-
I really don't know anything about the cartridge you pictured above. I tend to believe the least cartridge you should depend on is the 9mm. I'd rather have at least a .40 over that one.
In this regard I tend to agree with Laz. Use the largest caliber you can handle for the job at hand. Having said that, the most critical part of the situation is actually making a good hit with whatever you are using. A good solid center mas hit with a "mouse gun" is better than the fastest miss with a .50 caliber S&W.
If you can't hit you are not going to do well against someone who can. If you cannot disable with a hit you may not do well with anyone who has serious intent to do you harm anyhow.
I'm not an adherent to the idea that velocity is the great deal. If velocity and impact were the big deal the numbers suggest it is a .22-250 would be great for hunting elk. The problem is that the bullet has to penetrate and do damage deeper than the surface.
A medium velocity cartridge that penetrates well will do better than a high speed one that blows up on impact. You can't also count on hollow points to function. They can get plugged up with hair, clothing or whatever and not expand at all, particularly at pistol velocities.
-
I agree with Mav, I be those 32 NAA rounds are hard to find and not cheap.
There are many small 9MMs that will do the job better. Even tiny chicks can handle a 9.
-
IF... I were ever to have a gun, it would have to be concealable and those guns (9mm ?) the police around here have are really big.
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
IF... I were ever to have a gun, it would have to be concealable and those guns (9mm ?) the police around here have are really big.
TIGERESS
The size of the gun has very little to do with the size of the round it fires in many cases.
Look up Kahr 9MMs they are nice and small.
The guns police carry are big because they do not need to be small. Most do not carry 9MMs any more from what I have read.
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
... Got a very nasty shoulder bruise from shooting a 12 gauge shotgun when I was young... that hurt....
tigeress on candid camera! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7xFhrigGvY)
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
IF... I were ever to have a gun, it would have to be concealable and those guns (9mm ?) the police around here have are really big.
TIGERESS
Look into a Glock 19 (9mm), 23 (.40 S&W), 26 (9mm), 27(.40 S&W) or a Lady Smith Model 36 .38 Cal. Go to a range and ask to try a few calibers. You'll nail down a "comfortable recoil" soon. The difference in the Glocks is that the 26 & 27 are in their "subcompact" line and are usually found on the ankles of Law Enforcement O's. I personally find them too small for my hands, but you might be able have the opposite effect and be comfortable with it.
I've never been a fan of Kahr. Too many reliability issues.
-
Thanks for the advice, guys. Really appreciate it.
Appreciate you taking so much time and effort for me, Masher!
Bob, I absolutely know how that girl in the video felt... bet she was just as black and blue as I was. ouch I had a huge brused area.
While I was at YouTube looking at it I tried some of the other videos on the right.
I have to admit... this does look like fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnTgyqs_lmY&feature=related
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by GtoRA2
The size of the gun has very little to do with the size of the round it fires in many cases.
(http://www.male-enhancement-pills.net/images/male-enhancement.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
(http://www.male-enhancement-pills.net/images/male-enhancement.jpg)
Unlike most of you oldtimers, I don't need that stuff..... yet.
-
You really need the AA12.. we all do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhstuvzMiB0&feature=related
lazs
-
Funny but a gun too light for fun shooting started me into a couple years of gun research and selective acquisition. I had a Colt Agent lightweight .38 5-shot revolver with 2-inch barrel.
It was to be the primary home defense gun, and carryable if needed. So I took it to the range to practice. UGH! Nasty little thing. Terrible blast and recoil.
A detour into fancy designer ammo (e.g., +P and zoomier bullets) soon convinced me it's much better to just buy a heavier standard caliber -- more effective, cheaper, more available, more proven.
Quickly traded it for a Ruger .357 4-inch barrel that was more pleasant to fire in .357 Magnum than the lightweight was in .38. But I still had no need for .357 and did not like the heavier blast and recoil. .38 was marginal enough to inspire enough +P mushroomies to outnumber mushroom veggies in a supermarket.
So after more research, including many revolvers and semiautos, found my compatible in the Springfield XD .45 ACP with 4-inch barrel and a 13-round magazine. Amazing firepower and value, absolutely the best all-around handgun for home defense and target shooting for my needs.
It's twice as effective with a Glock 21 laser/light. Unbeatable for checking out any potential problems at night or bad visibility.
You might want to try the .45 ACP, but I have a hunch you might prefer the .40. Compare them both. Then you'll be sure what you prefer. I personally think anything lighter like .38, 9mm, and .32 is not enough oomph.
It's like not buying a car until you've driven a Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. Drive a Springfield XD .45 ACP and .40 (and, okay, maybe another similar brand). Then you have a really solid basis for comparing any other equipment you're considering.
-
If you don't spend much time at the range you maybe better off getting a wheelgun instead of a semi-auto. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller then a .38 that can handle +P ammo.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
You really need the AA12.. we all do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhstuvzMiB0&feature=related
lazs
OMG!!! hahahaha That thing looks evil! :rofl
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Xargos
If you don't spend much time at the range you maybe better off getting a wheelgun instead of a semi-auto. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller then a .38 that can handle +P ammo.
I don't go to ranges; don't have a gun lol But if I got one I would certainly learn how to use it and practice with it.
From what you guys are saying, test firing different ones is probably the best thing to do. I would not buy a car without test driving different ones to find out what works best for me.
This has lead me to do some googling on all this and I found advice saying keeping a gun in my purse wont work; a guy will take my purse away from me right off and people, children especially, have greater access to it because I set my purse down when not walking around with it. geez
Last thing I would ever want would be for children getting their hands on something like this.
There is a lot of responsibility that comes with having a deadly weapon like this and I would just die if a child got hurt simply cause I had it thus got their hands on it. I don't have children in my home but have other women friends who do.
This all goes back as to why I never got a gun in the first place. I would rather get hurt myself than ever have an innocent person get hurt as a result of my having one. These things are scary and the responsibility that comes with it is absolutely sobering.
With all this said, I think carrying one with me is out of the question.
But I will tell you this... if I had one in my hands and was being attacked and truely believed I was in inescapable mortal danger, I would not hesitate even a microsecond to shoot my attacker as many times as necessary to get him to stop.
I have said it before, I routinely go to great lengths to minimize the possibility of a physical confrontation with anyone bent on causing me serious harm or death but if cornered, and given no other alternatives, I will stand and fight with whatever I have avaliable and absolutely go for the throat without blinking in that circumstance. Given only my thumb nails, I will go straight for his two eyes and gouge them out of his head.
TIGERESS
-
tigress.. you may not be ready to own a gun.
sorry.. that is what you need to decide. there are no excuses.. you need to do some real work and get responsible to do so. It takes a certain amount of maturity and the willingness to be safe and to get proficient.
None of this is too difficult but it takes a certain mindset. Truth is.. only about half the people want to have a gun around and only about 10% will carry one.
The rest will shirk their responsibilities to themselves and their fellow citizens and just hope for the best.. thinking up all sorts of excuses why they should be excused from such a duty.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
tigress.. you may not be ready to own a gun.
sorry.. that is what you need to decide. there are no excuses.. you need to do some real work and get responsible to do so. It takes a certain amount of maturity and the willingness to be safe and to get proficient.
None of this is too difficult but it takes a certain mindset. Truth is.. only about half the people want to have a gun around and only about 10% will carry one.
The rest will shirk their responsibilities to themselves and their fellow citizens and just hope for the best.. thinking up all sorts of excuses why they should be excused from such a duty.
lazs
I believe I am a very responsible person so I am a little confused here.
Do you think I am being irresponsible by not having a gun? ...or, if having one, not carrying it?
I have never thought about it like that...
TIGERESS
-
yes.. I believe that anyone who won't take the time to learn and use one is not responsible.
You claim you couldn't have one because of the danger to innocents or that you would allow some child to get your gun out of your purse.
Yet... what do you think of standing by and watching a woman or man being assaulted and maybe killed because you can do nothing but call for the police so that they can call the morgue or hospital and take the report?
If you are just insane or so clumsy that you can't operate a motor vehicle or power tools then I can understand.. if you have some phobia.. I can understand. I can't understand your excuses.
It really doesn't matter to me tho. I believe that having 10% of the population carrying concealed is a good enough ratio to make up for the other 90% shirking their responsibility.
If there were no bad guys then none of this would matter of course.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
Do you think I am being irresponsible by not having a gun? ...or, if having one, not carrying it?
A little town near me, Chiloquin, OR, by city ordinance requires each house to be armed. If you lived there you would be not only irresponsible, you would be a law breaker.
(They passed the ordinance about 6 or 7 years ago to keep San Fran / Berkeley / Willamette Valley anti gun hippie liberals from moving here, I haven't heard if it being repealed)
-
Tigress,
Depending on where you live you might be able to find an urban indoor range that allows rentals. They often have a fair variety of firearms to rent and that would let you try several styles without having to buy the gun. There is one in my home town and many folks have saved a bunch of money in finding a gun they like to shoot rather than relying on what someone else told them. A firearm is a personal item and what does well for one person doesn't always carry over to another.
Besides, shooting in a nice range is just fun. It would be an interesting change of pace if you decided you might want have an afternoon or evening doing something different.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
yes.. I believe that anyone who won't take the time to learn and use one is not responsible.
You claim you couldn't have one because of the danger to innocents or that you would allow some child to get your gun out of your purse.
Yet... what do you think of standing by and watching a woman or man being assaulted and maybe killed because you can do nothing but call for the police so that they can call the morgue or hospital and take the report?
If you are just insane or so clumsy that you can't operate a motor vehicle or power tools then I can understand.. if you have some phobia.. I can understand. I can't understand your excuses.
It really doesn't matter to me tho. I believe that having 10% of the population carrying concealed is a good enough ratio to make up for the other 90% shirking their responsibility.
If there were no bad guys then none of this would matter of course.
lazs
mmmmmmmmm...
Well, that is certainly food for thought.
And no, I'm of sound mind and not clumsy... am a good and safe driver... shoot, my car even has a stick shift and I am real good at it.
Have driven several motorcycles in my 20s, even drove my boyfriend's car at the drags back then... that was a blast! Had some trouble with one bike because it was too heavy for me.
Not much need for using big power tools but I have a good quality battery power drill for drilling holes to hang stuff and its great for screwing and unscrewing screws; also a little dremel tool and an electric sander for refinishing stuff I rescue from flea markets.
I have confidence I can handle a gun safely and correctly and hit what I aim at with instruction and practice.
I have shot them before, as I said, and it was a lot of fun. The girl shooting the different machine guns in the video I posted was obviously having a lot of fun.
My reluctance has been due to fear I would indirectly cause an innocent person to be harmed... I don't think I would shoot someone by accident though... a gun is always treated as though loaded, even if it is unloaded... my Dad taught me when I first shot one.
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Tigress,
Depending on where you live you might be able to find an urban indoor range that allows rentals. They often have a fair variety of firearms to rent and that would let you try several styles without having to buy the gun. There is one in my home town and many folks have saved a bunch of money in finding a gun they like to shoot rather than relying on what someone else told them. A firearm is a personal item and what does well for one person doesn't always carry over to another.
Besides, shooting in a nice range is just fun. It would be an interesting change of pace if you decided you might want have an afternoon or evening doing something different.
Very good suggestion, Maverick. I have started googling around locally to see what is what. Looks like I would have to take at least a class in state gun law to even qualify for a permit.
Having other women around and in the know would be highly preferable than just going to a range where there are all guys. I have some research to do now.
Lazs has really got me thinking...
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Halo
Funny but a gun too light for fun shooting started me into a couple years of gun research and selective acquisition. I had a Colt Agent lightweight .38 5-shot revolver with 2-inch barrel.
It was to be the primary home defense gun, and carryable if needed. So I took it to the range to practice. UGH! Nasty little thing. Terrible blast and recoil.
A detour into fancy designer ammo (e.g., +P and zoomier bullets) soon convinced me it's much better to just buy a heavier standard caliber -- more effective, cheaper, more available, more proven.
Quickly traded it for a Ruger .357 4-inch barrel that was more pleasant to fire in .357 Magnum than the lightweight was in .38. But I still had no need for .357 and did not like the heavier blast and recoil. .38 was marginal enough to inspire enough +P mushroomies to outnumber mushroom veggies in a supermarket.
So after more research, including many revolvers and semiautos, found my compatible in the Springfield XD .45 ACP with 4-inch barrel and a 13-round magazine. Amazing firepower and value, absolutely the best all-around handgun for home defense and target shooting for my needs.
It's twice as effective with a Glock 21 laser/light. Unbeatable for checking out any potential problems at night or bad visibility.
You might want to try the .45 ACP, but I have a hunch you might prefer the .40. Compare them both. Then you'll be sure what you prefer. I personally think anything lighter like .38, 9mm, and .32 is not enough oomph.
It's like not buying a car until you've driven a Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. Drive a Springfield XD .45 ACP and .40 (and, okay, maybe another similar brand). Then you have a really solid basis for comparing any other equipment you're considering.
When googling the Guardian 32NAA I read somewhere it shoots fire five feet out from the barrel and has lower kick and enhanced hitting power due to the 32NAA bullets it uses. I am definately not up on gun tech talk but I could get up to speed with homework and research... I'm not an engineer for nothing.
Also, I have yet to find anything negative on the net about the guardian 32NAA; rather, quite the reverse...
for example, see --> http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/mousegun.htm
I wouldn't buy a gun without trying a variety of them and getting lots of advice as well.
TIGERESS
-
The new 2nd Generation Civilian Taser ( Called the Taser C2 ), just started shipping last month. There is about a 7 week backorder on them right now, but my new C2's are supposed to arrive in 2 weeks, just in time for Christmas.
These are very handy and lightweight weapons. This new generation has a powerful LED flashlight built in to help you see your target in the dark, and also a laser sight, that makes aiming it very quick and easy to do.
Its range is only 15 ft. But the 50,000 volts that it delivers is guaranteed to stop any attacker, and knock them to the ground. The person simply loses all control of their muscles.
The battery can provide power for up to 50 30 second cycles of shocks. So if you want to shock the person longer than 30 seconds, that can easily be done. You can also remove the cartridge from the gun, and run away, after shocking the person. The C2 Taser then turns into a stun gun, that is still able to deliver 50,000 volts, by making contact with the person and pulling the trigger.
Taser International has been concentrating on the Law Enforcement market for the past several years. But now that they have been widely adopted by Law Enforcement, they are looking to expand their presence with civilians with this new improved model, that is smaller and less expensive than their previous civilian model, yet offers the same 50,000 volts of power as their police models.
Here is their ad targeting women:
(http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionImages/Product/Consumer%20Product%20Banner/c2_01_top.jpg)
And here is the metallic pink version of the Taser C2, for female owners:
(http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionImages/Product/Consumer%20Product%20Banner/c2_01_logo.jpg)
Note the two openings at the bottom, where the LED flashlight and laser aiming sights reside.
The only drawback to this weapon is that some self-defense experts say that if a woman pulls it out of her purse and aims it at someone, they are going to think that they are pointing a lady's electric shaver at them.
Consequently, any owners should simply yell: TASER!! at the top of their voice when displaying the weapon. Doing that should get any potential attacker's attention fast, as the Taser has earned quite a reputation in recent years.
Just look at what a Taser did to this big 340 lb guy who decided to mess with police officers and resist arrest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVQUdXUkA8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVQUdXUkA8)
Just listen to the guy's comments at the end of the video.
SIG 220
-
I forgot to mention the price of the new C2: $349 with the laser sight option, and $299 without. In my opinion, the extra $50 for the laser sight is more than well worth the extra money. For without it, you really then have nothing to truly aim with.
In any event, this is less than what a decent handgun now costs.
The guns are inactive and non-functional when they are shipped from the factory. They can only become active by the person registering the Taser with Taser International, and having a background check done. This is all done through their website, and there is a $10 fee for the registration and background check. Once the background check is approved, they give you an activation code that you can then enter into the Taser to make it function.
A registration record is thus kept of your ownership of the weapon. This, as well as the criminal background check and activation code, are all meant to prevent them from being used by any criminals.
SIG 220
-
(quote) When googling the Guardian 32NAA I read somewhere it shoots fire five feet out from the barrel and has lower kick and enhanced hitting power due to the 32NAA bullets it uses. I am definately not up on gun tech talk but I could get up to speed with homework and research... I'm not an engineer for nothing.
Also, I have yet to find anything negative on the net about the guardian 32NAA; rather, quite the reverse...
for example, see --> http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/mousegun.htm
I wouldn't buy a gun without trying a variety of them and getting lots of advice as well. (unquote)
To me, that review says what most mouse gun reviews say: Buy a mouse gun only as a last resort because it's best feature (easy carry) makes it no fun to shoot, and it can never be as effective as a bigger gun in a more traditional cartridge size.
When I was looking for an optimum (favorite word) handgun, I also fired mouse guns like Kahr and Kel-Tec. I agree with nearly everyone else that they are NOT fun to fire. That big flash is inefficient waste of unburned powder because the barrel is too short.
Get a gun large enough that you will enjoy firing it enough to become proficient with it. If you read about big flash and recoil, the gun is not big enough for the cartridge.
-
Originally posted by Halo
(quote) When googling the Guardian 32NAA I read somewhere it shoots fire five feet out from the barrel and has lower kick and enhanced hitting power due to the 32NAA bullets it uses. I am definately not up on gun tech talk but I could get up to speed with homework and research... I'm not an engineer for nothing.
Also, I have yet to find anything negative on the net about the guardian 32NAA; rather, quite the reverse...
for example, see --> http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/mousegun.htm
I wouldn't buy a gun without trying a variety of them and getting lots of advice as well. (unquote)
To me, that review says what most mouse gun reviews say: Buy a mouse gun only as a last resort because it's best feature (easy carry) makes it no fun to shoot, and it can never be as effective as a bigger gun in a more traditional cartridge size.
When I was looking for an optimum (favorite word) handgun, I also fired mouse guns like Kahr and Kel-Tec. I agree with nearly everyone else that they are NOT fun to fire. That big flash is inefficient waste of unburned powder because the barrel is too short.
Get a gun large enough that you will enjoy firing it enough to become proficient with it. If you read about big flash and recoil, the gun is not big enough for the cartridge.
Hi Halo,
Thanks for your thoughtful post.
I have been busy reading and studying.
After doing some in depth reading, I have learned yours and the other guys' posted sentiments here are on target with the commonly expressed views of the gun community at large on compact guns aka pocket guns aka mouse guns.
Compact guns are a compromise of reduced performance and less desirable behaviors for the sake of carry stealth.
I also read compact stealth guns are not considered "fun to shoot guns" due to the short barrel and small size but the compact gun has its deserved place thus many are sold and carried with the trade-offs understood and accepted.
I now have more of an understanding of the trade-offs of a compact over normal sized handguns.
Stealth and lower weight are significant factors for me and the resulting trade-offs are acceptable as I understand them. Still, I will need to actually fire compacts to see if I can tolerate the bad habits.
The 32NAA bullets, as I have read, is an effort of optimization to help reduce the performance losses and help reduce undesirable behaviors like recoil a compact design causes as much as possible but nothing is ever going to make a compact behave like a normal sized handgun.
Also, I have read having that laser sight is a good idea as the compact gun is a point and shoot, not an accurate long distance device that one would take steady aim with for a distance shot.
How am I doing? Am I getting it or am I off base?
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by SIG220
The new 2nd Generation Civilian Taser ( Called the Taser C2 ), just started shipping last month. There is about a 7 week backorder on them right now, but my new C2's are supposed to arrive in 2 weeks, just in time for Christmas.
These are very handy and lightweight weapons. This new generation has a powerful LED flashlight built in to help you see your target in the dark, and also a laser sight, that makes aiming it very quick and easy to do.
Its range is only 15 ft. But the 50,000 volts that it delivers is guaranteed to stop any attacker, and knock them to the ground. The person simply loses all control of their muscles.
The battery can provide power for up to 50 30 second cycles of shocks. So if you want to shock the person longer than 30 seconds, that can easily be done. You can also remove the cartridge from the gun, and run away, after shocking the person. The C2 Taser then turns into a stun gun, that is still able to deliver 50,000 volts, by making contact with the person and pulling the trigger.
Taser International has been concentrating on the Law Enforcement market for the past several years. But now that they have been widely adopted by Law Enforcement, they are looking to expand their presence with civilians with this new improved model, that is smaller and less expensive than their previous civilian model, yet offers the same 50,000 volts of power as their police models.
Here is their ad targeting women:
(http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionImages/Product/Consumer%20Product%20Banner/c2_01_top.jpg)
And here is the metallic pink version of the Taser C2, for female owners:
(http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionImages/Product/Consumer%20Product%20Banner/c2_01_logo.jpg)
Note the two openings at the bottom, where the LED flashlight and laser aiming sights reside.
The only drawback to this weapon is that some self-defense experts say that if a woman pulls it out of her purse and aims it at someone, they are going to think that they are pointing a lady's electric shaver at them.
Consequently, any owners should simply yell: TASER!! at the top of their voice when displaying the weapon. Doing that should get any potential attacker's attention fast, as the Taser has earned quite a reputation in recent years.
Just look at what a Taser did to this big 340 lb guy who decided to mess with police officers and resist arrest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVQUdXUkA8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVQUdXUkA8)
Just listen to the guy's comments at the end of the video.
SIG 220
Hi SIG 220,
Thank you very much for your post! wow
I will investigate this taser carefully. It is also quite beautifully designed.
The color in the picture is not pink, however... it is lavender (orchid)
and is one of my very favorite colors. :) Perhaps they were meaning to say it also comes in pink?
Thanks again, dear.
TIGERESS
-
TASER C2
I visited their website and reviewed the specifications and information.
I think it is way overpriced but without real competition they can charge whatever the market will bear.
http://www.taser.com/products/consumers/Pages/C2.aspx
It is not an extreme cold weather device; the battery needs to be kept from going too low on temperature but that could be overcome by wearing it in close contact with the body if necessary. I would like to see a power vs temp plot but its not avaliable at their site.
Operation temp range is -4F to 122F
They did get it wrong on the color; they call it pink on their website and it is not pink; it is lavender. Glad it isn't pink.
Soo Lazs... looks like a gun permit and a carry permit is required.
Lazs, does this qualify as being a responsible citizen if carried and used as an equiv to a firearm?
TIGERESS
PS: This is a situation that always makes me fearful...
(http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionImages/Banners/consumer_banner.jpg)
-
:( please dont shoot me with it as you could kill me and those like me with certain heart conditions o and what about pacemakers
the police are killing people with these things!
most muggers wont have a heart condition or a pacemaker so for a woman trying to protect herself i can see this as ok, but the police seem to be shooting first with this thing and asking questions later! unfortunatly the dead people on the other end cant say why they died! or or why they might have appeared to be resitant ,some still beleive they have a right to argue there case at the seen of a traffic ticket and some officers cant seem to tell the difference between arguing youur case and resisting a ticket that should not have resulted in resisting arrest.
yea i probably got a little off topic this is just a very hot issue for me
-
Originally posted by WWhiskey
:( please dont shoot me with it as you could kill me and those like me with certain heart conditions o and what about pacemakers
the police are killing people with these things!
most muggers wont have a heart condition or a pacemaker so for a woman trying to protect herself i can see this as ok, but the police seem to be shooting first with this thing and asking questions later! unfortunatly the dead people on the other end cant say why they died! or or why they might have appeared to be resitant ,some still beleive they have a right to argue there case at the seen of a traffic ticket and some officers cant seem to tell the difference between arguing youur case and resisting a ticket that should not have resulted in resisting arrest.
yea i probably got a little off topic this is just a very hot issue for me
Hi WWhiskey,
Why don't you start a thread on Tasers? I think it is an excellent topic!!!!
If you are attacking me physically, would you rather I shoot you with a firearm or this taser? :D
Anyone attacking me while I am armed? I will shoot you where you stand... taser or firearm.
Problem with the police is they are using the taser to make someone cooperate rather than physical person to person force. I believe the TASER is being misused by police department in this regards.
"Shut uppa you face ma'am or I will taser you" does NOT cut it...
TIGERESS
-
(quote) How am I doing? Am I getting it or am I off base?
TIGERESS (unquote)
You get an A, Tigeress. :aok
-
tigress.. sorry to be so blunt.. I pretty much assumed that you could drive and use power tools and that you are not too insane even tho you are a woman.
I think that it is human nature to want to defend yourself and others..
It is excellent advice to go to a range that rents firearms and try a variety. The gun you like and feel comfortable with and shoot well is the best one. Truth is.. even my little walther ppk in 32 auto is a great gun.. a zillion cops carried em for backup for decades.. and still do for that matter.. they will work. The problem is that, while they will kill... they may not make the bad guy fall down right away.
It is difficult.. too difficult to get a permit to carry. Some places it is not possible. this is a clear infrigement on our rights but.. it is what it is.
You are left with the option of illegal firearms carry. You become a criminal if you exercise your right and responsibility.
Many people are brave. they will attack to defend themselves or others using nothing but their hands against great odds... it is far better to be both brave and smart tho.
Anyone who does own a firearm owes it to themselves and the rest of us tho to learn the very simple safe practice rules and to become proficient with it.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Halo
(quote) How am I doing? Am I getting it or am I off base?
TIGERESS (unquote)
You get an A, Tigeress. :aok
TANKS DEAR!!!!!!!!! :)
TIGERESS
-
agree with you i do!
absolutly you or i should be able to defend ourselves and yes a tazer would be better than a pistol, for the bad guys!
i just think the police are out of control as a whole inthere ability to taze anyone they choose in the interest of the public good!
-
Some quotes I've collected that offer food for thought and a DIFFERENT way of viewing firearms........
"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it."
"In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some."
"When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender."
"There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly."
"Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable."
"When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act."
I've often had a thought that comes to mind when I've meant people that react with fear to when I've been carrying a firearm.
"Only the guilty flee when none pursue"
I put forward something I read once but will use my own wording as I can't remember exactly how the original was worded.......
....If I enter you home and I am armed I am saying to you and all others I will defend your home as if it were my own.....
IMHO a firearm is a FRIEND. A dangerous friend? YES, but still it is a friend! I can say this because I have NO desire, or need to force my will upon another.
HOWEVER there can be times when being armed with a firearm is undesirable...
When I am armed it is on ME to act in a civil, reasonable, calm manner. For I have the ability to apply lethal force upon others. You will find the COURTS agree with this perception of being armed.
The courts place a greater BURDEN of action and interaction upon the armed person over the unarmed person. And that IMHO is as it should be.
So in an argument the burden is automatically upon the armed individual! IMHO This in part made many prefer to be unarmed. So they could argue, disagree, perhaps even push another about, without the fear of repercussions, or accusations of attempted murder, in a court of law. For an armed person arguing with an unarmed person COULD find themselves in DEEP trouble!
This of course could be mitigated somewhat by who starts the argument/altercation and who tries to continues it, yet the burden still is on the armed individual. Even if it is legally concealed, this still applies.
A good book you may find of interest is "in the Gravest Extreme" written by Masaad Ayoob (OK I think thats the way it's spelled)
He has often been called as an expert witness.
Another book you might find of interest is "Armed and Female" written by Paxton Quigly ( OK spelling again LOL)
She wrote a very good book, I lent a friends wife the book and not long afterward both obtained firearms and CCW permits. I helped them both choose their preferred firearm. There was a range near us that rented handguns. They tried several out, including some of mine. She chose a Ruger wheelgun in 357 and later even had a trigger job done on it. He chose a Kimber 45 Officers model type. This was done after both gave it considerable thought and sole searching BTW.
-
Originally posted by WWhiskey
absolutly you or i should be able to defend ourselves and yes a tazer would be better than a pistol, for the bad guys!
I'd much rather be able to shoot someone than taze them. To taze, you gotta get pretty up close. With a gun, you can shoot them before they get into arms reach.
-
I'd rather do neither. Trouble is easier to avoid than deal with if you are aware of your surroundings. Prudent choices in where to go and what to do coupled with situational awareness have more to do with staying safe than pure chance.
If trouble finds me anyhow, I'd rather be able to deal with it just once. I've gone in harms way before and no longer go looking for it.
-
Originally posted by Maverick
I'd rather do neither. Trouble is easier to avoid than deal with if you are aware of your surroundings. Prudent choices in where to go and what to do coupled with situational awareness have more to do with staying safe than pure chance.
Excellent point :aok
-
Originally posted by Maverick
I'd rather do neither. Trouble is easier to avoid than deal with if you are aware of your surroundings. Prudent choices in where to go and what to do coupled with situational awareness have more to do with staying safe than pure chance.
If trouble finds me anyhow, I'd rather be able to deal with it just once. I've gone in harms way before and no longer go looking for it.
He covers just that REPEATEDLY in his book...
A good book you may find of interest is "in the Gravest Extreme" written by Masaad Ayoob (OK I think thats the way it's spelled)
Ands so does she.....
"Armed and Female" written by Paxton Quigly ( OK spelling again LOL)
-
Wrag,
Ayoob is a prolific writer and a pretty straight talking individual. I used to read his column as well as Skeeter Skelton every month. I was impressed by both of them. We lost a good writer when Skelton passed.
IIRC it was Cooper that codified the states of awareness using the colors green, amber and red. What he wrote about and described made a lot of sense and still does. Trouble avoided through awareness of it is trouble defeated in the best manner.
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
TASER C2
I visited their website and reviewed the specifications and information.
I think it is way overpriced but without real competition they can charge whatever the market will bear.
http://www.taser.com/products/consumers/Pages/C2.aspx
It is not an extreme cold weather device; the battery needs to be kept from going too low on temperature but that could be overcome by wearing it in close contact with the body if necessary. I would like to see a power vs temp plot but its not avaliable at their site.
Operation temp range is -4F to 122F
They did get it wrong on the color; they call it pink on their website and it is not pink; it is lavender. Glad it isn't pink.
Soo Lazs... looks like a gun permit and a carry permit is required.
Lazs, does this qualify as being a responsible citizen if carried and used as an equiv to a firearm?
TIGERESS
PS: This is a situation that always makes me fearful...
(http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionImages/Banners/consumer_banner.jpg)
Tigeress, I'll be honest. I'd MUCH rather that my wife carried a .32 magnum revolver or a small 9mm Auto than trust her life to a Tazer. The company's brochure for the C2 says it all.
15 feet in not a very great distance. It can be outranged by a badguy with a friggin' well-thrown rock.
The little probes' have been known to simply stick in a heavy quilted or leather coat, and not deliver the charge.
I know, alot of shooting situation's are inside of 15 feet- sometimes as little as 7. But if the electrode just hits the guys' jacket, and either bounces off, or just sticks' in the jacket and not even make contact, You won't have a second chance-at that point, The attacker will have closed the distance enough to be physical. And I'm sorry to say, most of the time, the woman loses that fight to a man.
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Wrag,
Ayoob is a prolific writer and a pretty straight talking individual. I used to read his column as well as Skeeter Skelton every month. I was impressed by both of them. We lost a good writer when Skelton passed.
IIRC it was Cooper that codified the states of awareness using the colors green, amber and red. What he wrote about and described made a lot of sense and still does. Trouble avoided through awareness of it is trouble defeated in the best manner.
Ahhhh Jeff Cooper :D
A Marine BTW :D
Pretty sure you recall correctly :D
JEFF COOPER’S RULES FOR GUN SAFETY
(Make Them Yours Too)
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it; e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.
All guns are always loaded - period!
This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger.
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.
SUMMARY
Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
TASER C2
I visited their website and reviewed the specifications and information.
I think it is way overpriced but without real competition they can charge whatever the market will bear.
While it is true that they have no real competition, I'm not so sure that you can then automatically assume that the price is a rip-off.
I just paid $300 recently for a compact Canon Digital camera. And I paid $650 for my last handgun. $350 for the more expensive model with the laser sight seems reasonable to me. Why do you think it is so very overpriced?
It is not an extreme cold weather device; the battery needs to be kept from going too low on temperature but that could be overcome by wearing it in close contact with the body if necessary. I would like to see a power vs temp plot but its not avaliable at their site.
Operation temp range is -4F to 122F
-4F is 36 degrees below freezing. That is really exceptionally cold. Does your purse ever really get that cold? People will generally carry the Taser C2 concealed, which will generally mean close to their body. Do you live in a really cold state like Montana, North Dakota, or Alaska? You might need to be a little more careful if so. But I don't see that from making it impractical to use.
Soo Lazs... looks like a gun permit and a carry permit is required.
Lazs, does this qualify as being a responsible citizen if carried and used as an equiv to a firearm?
What state do you live in Tigress? Most states have no regulations at all about carrying Tasers concealed. No permit of any kind is required. I've lived in California, Nevada, and Oregon, and only California has limited restrictions that only ban carrying them into government facilities or schools.
According to Taser International, it is legal to own and carry, except in the following states: "DC, MA, RI, NY, NJ, WI, MI, HI & certain cities & counties." If you don't live in one of these states, you should have nothing to worry about in carrying a Taser.
SIG 220
-
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
15 feet in not a very great distance. It can be outranged by a badguy with a friggin' well-thrown rock.
And how many cases have there been where you live recently, or women being assaulted with rocks???
The little probes' have been known to simply stick in a heavy quilted or leather coat, and not deliver the charge.
I know, alot of shooting situation's are inside of 15 feet- sometimes as little as 7. But if the electrode just hits the guys' jacket, and either bounces off, or just sticks' in the jacket and not even make contact
You are making an assumption here that the woman is not going to aim for her attacker's balls. A would be rapist would freak out if he saw the red dot of the laser sight focused on his wiener.
Unlike bullets, the Taser is effective no matter where on the body it strikes. If heavy clothing really could so easily defeat it ( as you claim ), law enforcement would not have adopted it to the level that it has.
God help a poor rapist, though, if a taser probe ever did hit his manhood. Remember that the person controlling the taser could then keep on applying shocks, until the battery is drained. That could mean up to 25 minutes of agony.
Not that any woman would ever be so mean and cruel to a man trying to rape her.
SIG 220
-
Originally posted by WWhiskey
agree with you i do!
absolutly you or i should be able to defend ourselves and yes a tazer would be better than a pistol, for the bad guys!
I have to disagree with you on that.
Here in Oregon where I live, it is a crime to brandish a firearm and threaten someone with it. So unless you have absolute proof that you were acting in self-defense, or other witnesses to back you up, you can actually end up in jail for pulling out a handgun to protect yourself.
No such law exists in Oregon for displaying a taser in self defense. It is legally not considered to be a firearm.
A prominent retired citizen two years ago here in the county that I live in brandished a handgun and fired shots in the air, to get rid of some young adults in their late teens and early 20's who were trespassing on his property in a rural area. Now, he claimed that they had threatened him, and that he acted in self-defense. But the others all said otherwise. It was his word against that of all of the others.
So even though they indeed were illegally trespassing on his land, he was convicted, and sent to jail.
One can also get into trouble legally if one escalates the violence level. Let's say that you get into a heated argument with someone, and they physically attack you. Well, you may feel that your life is threatened, and that it is OK to then shoot the person.
But that will often not hold up well in court. Just because someone punches you, does not necessarily mean that you have the right to shoot and kill them.
I'm getting a Taser to AUGMENT carrying a handgun. If a person is not armed with a gun or knife, but still threatening me, I can pull out a Taser and never be found guilty of any crime for displaying it.
And if worse came to worse, and using the Taser failed to resolve a situation, I could always then go for my handgun as a last resort.
People generally do not need a permit to carry a taser in most states too. There are a number of states, most noticeably the biggest one: California, where concealed carry permits for handguns are virtually impossible to get. But anyone in California can legally carry a Taser, without having to get any kind of permit, or even training on how to use it.
SIG 220
-
Originally posted by SIG220
I have to disagree with you on that.
Here in Oregon where I live, it is a crime to brandish a firearm and threaten someone with it. So unless you have absolute proof that you were acting in self-defense, or other witnesses to back you up, you can actually end up in jail for pulling out a handgun to protect yourself.
No such law exists in Oregon for displaying a taser in self defense. It is legally not considered to be a firearm.
A prominent retired citizen two years ago here in the county that I live in brandished a handgun and fired shots in the air, to get rid of some young adults in their late teens and early 20's who were trespassing on his property in a rural area. Now, he claimed that they had threatened him, and that he acted in self-defense. But the others all said otherwise. It was his word against that of all of the others.
So even though they indeed were illegally trespassing on his land, he was convicted, and sent to jail.
One can also get into trouble legally if one escalates the violence level. Let's say that you get into a heated argument with someone, and they physically attack you. Well, you may feel that your life is threatened, and that it is OK to then shoot the person.
But that will often not hold up well in court. Just because someone punches you, does not necessarily mean that you have the right to shoot and kill them.
I'm getting a Taser to AUGMENT carrying a handgun. If a person is not armed with a gun or knife, but still threatening me, I can pull out a Taser and never be found guilty of any crime for displaying it.
And if worse came to worse, and using the Taser failed to resolve a situation, I could always then go for my handgun as a last resort.
People generally do not need a permit to carry a taser in most states too. There are a number of states, most noticeably the biggest one: California, where concealed carry permits for handguns are virtually impossible to get. But anyone in California can legally carry a Taser, without having to get any kind of permit, or even training on how to use it.
SIG 220
I find that I have to disagree with you on some of what you have thus far said.
Kalifornia gets rather sticky where ANY self defense is used. Sadly, defending yourself with weapons can get you imprisoned. Even using your fist, feet, knees etc can get you in trouble. The Tazer is NO exception to this type of reaction by the state of Kalifornia. Thinkin maybe an assumption has been made?
That is why I left that state.
15 feet away?
HMMMM so you have never heard the statement that someone with a certain type of concealable hand weapon, can kill a law enforcement officer, or you, BEFORE they, or you, can draw a firearm?
Think the maximum distance away has been PROVEN to be right about 35 feet?
For that matter someone within 15 feet can move fast enough and swing hard enough that they can do considerable damage with just a fist sized rock in their hand before you can draw and fire either a tazer or firearm.
Sure such attacks are RARE. That is not the point.
Best defense is to pay close attention to what is going on around you ALL the time.
Criminals tend to pay close attention to BODY LANGUAGE and FACIAL EXPRESSION and VOICE INFLECTION.
If you present the wrong type it will draw them like flies to manure.
The brandishing a firearm situation is pretty much a VERY BAD thing to do in any state.
You pull it out YOU better be intending on using it OR leave it concealed.
WAY too many people think it's some kinda magic wand, that all you have to do is produce it and wave it about and it will solve your problem.
And if you actually fire a shot, YOUR life, or the LIFE of an innocent person, BETTER be in danger. Oops forgot LIMB! If someone is trying to cripple or maim you that also is defensible.
These things GENERALLY hold true in every State of the Union. *WARNING*
NOTICE: *I say Generally because it is YOUR DUTY to check and see if that is the case in the State you are IN.*
The books I mentioned earlier cover such things fairly well IMHO.
-
Originally posted by SIG220
While it is true that they have no real competition, I'm not so sure that you can then automatically assume that the price is a rip-off.
I just paid $300 recently for a compact Canon Digital camera. And I paid $650 for my last handgun. $350 for the more expensive model with the laser sight seems reasonable to me. Why do you think it is so very overpriced?
-4F is 36 degrees below freezing. That is really exceptionally cold. Does your purse ever really get that cold? People will generally carry the Taser C2 concealed, which will generally mean close to their body. Do you live in a really cold state like Montana, North Dakota, or Alaska? You might need to be a little more careful if so. But I don't see that from making it impractical to use.
What state do you live in Tigress? Most states have no regulations at all about carrying Tasers concealed. No permit of any kind is required. I've lived in California, Nevada, and Oregon, and only California has limited restrictions that only ban carrying them into government facilities or schools.
According to Taser International, it is legal to own and carry, except in the following states: "DC, MA, RI, NY, NJ, WI, MI, HI & certain cities & counties." If you don't live in one of these states, you should have nothing to worry about in carrying a Taser.
SIG 220
I live in one of those states.
For many reasons I can think of, a taser is lot better than nothing and a compact gun is better than a taser; its only good for one probe launch so if two are more attackers are working together its not really going to help except for the stun gun mode.
Both would be better than either one or the other, I think.
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Mr No Name
(cary grant), jimmy stewart, kate hepburn, adam sandler...
Three of these things go together.......
-
Sig220,
Do not think that a taser will allow you to threaten another person with legal impunity. Just like the example you gave with the old guy firing shots in the air, it will come down to your word against theirs. Threatening and intimidating with the taser will likely be treated as an assault (as opposed to a battery or actually carrying through of the threat) with a weapon. Just because a taser is not considered a deadly weapon like a firearm it will certainly fall into the category of a weapon none the less. Similar to a night stick / baton or other less than lethal weapons.
You also leave yourself wide open to a law suit and if they have more witnesses than do you, the preponderance of guilt (a far lower standard than criminal) will not likely swing your way.
In short, if you brandish or threaten another person with the taser you had better have all of your ducks in a row and be able to demonstrate that you had more than reasonable need to do so.
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Sig220,
Do not think that a taser will allow you to threaten another person with legal impunity. Just like the example you gave with the old guy firing shots in the air, it will come down to your word against theirs. Threatening and intimidating with the taser will likely be treated as an assault (as opposed to a battery or actually carrying through of the threat) with a weapon. Just because a taser is not considered a deadly weapon like a firearm it will certainly fall into the category of a weapon none the less. Similar to a night stick / baton or other less than lethal weapons.
You also leave yourself wide open to a law suit and if they have more witnesses than do you, the preponderance of guilt (a far lower standard than criminal) will not likely swing your way.
In short, if you brandish or threaten another person with the taser you had better have all of your ducks in a row and be able to demonstrate that you had more than reasonable need to do so.
I agree Sir :D
-
I worry about the whole tazer thing.. I see it as a way for criminals more than citizens to get over.
I also see a huge potential for abuse.. unlike firearms.. you can justify (in your mind) non leathal force for just about any percieved slight.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Maverick
I'd rather do neither. Trouble is easier to avoid than deal with if you are aware of your surroundings. Prudent choices in where to go and what to do coupled with situational awareness have more to do with staying safe than pure chance.
If trouble finds me anyhow, I'd rather be able to deal with it just once. I've gone in harms way before and no longer go looking for it.
Hi Maverick,
This has always been my way of staying out of harm's way... to use my intellect and SA and common sense.
Even to the point of driving around at the mall till I find a parking spot that is highly visable... and wont shop after dark where I have to find and get into my car in the dark in an obscure outdoor parking spot or any parking garage.
I admit... thinking about being armed as a result of this thread got me thinking in a fear-liberated way ...a personally empowered way, and that felt good in ways hard to explain. I have only felt that way when under the protection of an able-bodied man at my side.
Thinking about it also gave rise to the anger I have felt for being forced to always look over my shoulder when in public or even using the laundry room in my building, not that I have any valid reason whatsoever to fear any of my neighbors, per se.
It seriously sucks and it's repressive and I hate it... makes me want to let the first guy to grab me have the full clip to make up for a lifetime of necessary fear... or tase him till the battery is drained.
I see that as dangerous thinking... sort of like what Charles Bronson felt when he went out looking for muggers to deal out justice western style to while armed in the movie "Death Wish."
That kind of thinking leads to rage crimes where the victim becomes the attacker with levels of force far exceeding the merits of the situation and could very likely land the victim in prison and the attacker, dead.
Not sure if I am being clear as to my feelings... but I tried.
TIGERESS
Edit: while looking for cases where a crime in progress victim shoots the attacker/s, I came across this: A new law that just went into effect in September allows Texans to defend themselves with deadly force in their homes, cars and work places. The Castle Doctrine removes the requirement that a person must attempt to retreat before using deadly force. (from --> http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=5793118 )
Obviously, knowing and obeying the gun laws of the state you are in is extremely important in order to stay out of trouble.
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
I live in one of those states.
Well, if that is the case, then I believe that you are going to be out of luck when it comes to the taser. In fact, I doubt you will be able to legally carry either a handgun or a taser for protection. All of those states are pretty dedicated to keeping civilians disarmed when they are out in public.
In reality, some states that do have concealed carry permit systems really don't. Fortunately, most states have a "shall issue" rule, where the authorities have to issue you the permit, unless you are found to be ineligible. But for some others, it is totally discretionary, and in practice, virtually impossible to get issued.
Pepper spray may still be an option for you. Check your local laws regarding it.
Your other option would naturally be to move. But for most people, that is usually not a practical option. I was a 4th generation native Californian, as my Dad's family came to the state in 1853. But California no longer resembles the place that I grew up in back in the 1950's and 1960's. So I had no problem leaving it.
Oregon and Washington are not so bad, if you don't mind rain. It makes everything nice and green. In contrast, I hated living in Reno, NV for 7 years.
SIG 220
-
Originally posted by SIG220
Well, if that is the case, then I believe that you are going to be out of luck when it comes to the taser. In fact, I doubt you will be able to legally carry either a handgun or a taser for protection. All of those states are pretty dedicated to keeping civilians disarmed when they are out in public.
In reality, some states that do have concealed carry permit systems really don't. Fortunately, most states have a "shall issue" rule, where the authorities have to issue you the permit, unless you are found to be ineligible. But for some others, it is totally discretionary, and in practice, virtually impossible to get issued.
Pepper spray may still be an option for you. Check your local laws regarding it.
Your other option would naturally be to move. But for most people, that is usually not a practical option. I was a 4th generation native Californian, as my Dad's family came to the state in 1853. But California no longer resembles the place that I grew up in back in the 1950's and 1960's. So I had no problem leaving it.
Oregon and Washington are not so bad, if you don't mind rain. It makes everything nice and green. In contrast, I hated living in Reno, NV for 7 years.
SIG 220
Same deal for pepper spray... considered a firearm thus requires firearm license/permit and carry permit.
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Sig220,
Do not think that a taser will allow you to threaten another person with legal impunity. Just like the example you gave with the old guy firing shots in the air, it will come down to your word against theirs. Threatening and intimidating with the taser will likely be treated as an assault (as opposed to a battery or actually carrying through of the threat) with a weapon. Just because a taser is not considered a deadly weapon like a firearm it will certainly fall into the category of a weapon none the less. Similar to a night stick / baton or other less than lethal weapons.
You also leave yourself wide open to a law suit and if they have more witnesses than do you, the preponderance of guilt (a far lower standard than criminal) will not likely swing your way.
In short, if you brandish or threaten another person with the taser you had better have all of your ducks in a row and be able to demonstrate that you had more than reasonable need to do so.
To be guilty of any assault in Oregon, one has to actually cause physical injury to a person. That is true for even the lowest level 4th degree assault.
Oregon law does not consider the Taser to be either a Deadly weapon, or even what is legally known as a Dangerous weapon under the law.
You are absolutely correct that the Taser does not give you absolute impunity to do whatever you want. For one could still be found guilty of the misdemeanor of menacing under Oregon law for brandishing it unnecessarily.
What I do know is that the local DA takes firearms related crimes far more seriously. So your odds of being prosecuted go way up with a firearm. Our county government is so extremely short of money now, that many misdemeanors are not even being prosecuted here anymore. We just cannot afford to enforce the law all of the time anymore.
There still is a risk, no matter what you do to defend yourself. The only way to fully protect yourself from prosecution would be to simply not defend yourself, and let the other person have their way with you.
Just hope that you come out of it OK, and that the law properly deals with the other person.
SIG 220
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
Same deal for pepper spray... considered a firearm thus requires firearm license/permit and carry permit.
TIGERESS
So where do you live, Massachusetts? :huh
-
Originally posted by Maverick
So where do you live, Massachusetts? :huh
I live in a seriously blue state... am thinking of relocating if the opportunity presents itself.
TIGERESS