Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ghastly on November 28, 2007, 02:56:23 PM
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No, I'm not being facetious.
I don't do at all well in the LAs, and I don't really understand what I do differently than others do - I see guys landing 7-9 kill sorties in them on a regular basis (and often, you see guys land a half dozen sorties in them of 5 or more kills).
When I do fly them, I find that between the slow ROF on the cannons and the amount of bullet drop I go through most of an ammo load for 1 to 2 kills, and that coupled with the fact that by the time I get anywhere in one I've burned 1/2 a tank of gas they are frustrating and ineffective to fly.
What are you guys that are able to use them effectively doing differently?
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I never fly the LA-7 but I do fly the 5 occasionally. Where I have convergences set anywhere from 400-650 in other planes, I have it pulled into 200 in the LA-5.
Also, don't fly over ~10K. They aren't that good with alt.
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Fly really fast. Never slow down. Cherry pick and vulch your way to victory.
oh, and hot-pad.
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i usualy get three or so kills go rearm and come back lol
at take off i dont climb much higher than 6 k anything mroe is just a waste of fuel cause your gonna be on the deck as soon as your in.
bout the only planes that will catch you is a temp and a few others in a flat chase though anyone with supreme alt can come down and hang with you a min.
use your speed to hammer people, wehn things get thick extend away on the deck and climb back up to 6k
i always take full fuel and if im going more than a sector i cut rpm on take off down to 2000
still gives 2000. ft min rate of climb
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I used to be prejudiced against them, but I have been flying them lately in disadvantaged base defense -- where they excell. Most people who hate the La7 hate it because of how many weak pilots use it as a HO/Rocket run/reverse and repeat machine. But, it's actually more fun (and more successful) if you fight it like you would anything else, with style tweaks to take advantage of its strong points.
I'm no ace, but here's my take:
* As with any plane, you have to UNDERSTAND what it's good at and what it's not, and how hard to push it. Think of it as a whopping big engine with wings strapped on...it's fast, it accelerates, it climbs well. In a fight, use what it does well and what your opponent doesnt!
* If you're in a crowd, keep it fast. If you slow down to get a kill, either have only a few enemiies around -- or be prepared to die. That doesnt mean you have to extend 10K before reversing; just don't give away lots of energy (alt+speed squared) and get down into, say, the Zero's favorite flight envelope. Now, it's quite possible to stall fight well in the La7, but MA stall fighters don't often get home, and that's what you're saying you want to do.
* Save your shots for up close. There aren't that many rounds, they fire slowly, and they scatter at longer ranges. Take shots you can make, and make the shots you take. (This is a must if you want to get long runs of kills in any plane!)
*If you turn, make sure you use the vertical. Your plane has lots of acceleration and climb; if you keep your nose generally up your opponents generally won't be able to keep up with the climb, and you'll gain position.
*On the other hand, if you get too sloooowwww in your climb you may allow a true stall fighter to drop flaps, briefly pull nose way up to get the angle, and recover from a stall while your wing flutters to the ground without you. Faster and wider favors you more.
*As in any plane, you need to get good at multi-con management. Good SA is a must, and you need to be able to judge who is the greatest threat at any given time. In fact, if you want to get a string of kills you need to stop thinking about SA as "remembering to look behind now and then." Situational Awareness includes everything around you -- where the enemies are, how close is the enemy base (where new, still unseen enemies will come from), how fast/high are the cons around you, which friendlies seem to be engaging which enemy and how likely are they to succeed, which 3K cons have a chance at a good shooting angle when they get closer.....you get the idea.
If you haven't tried it, I strongly suggest you drop in for a few of Widewings multi-con management furballs. They're in the TA, and are on the trainers' schedule. You take turns trying to survive one against 4-5, and you learn to when and how to convert to the offense to whittle down the odds.
You'll notice that a lot of "how to succeed in Plane X" comes down to general pilot combat skills. No plane has a formula; to succeed you need to understand how fighting works.
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Keep it fast, fight aggresively, and fight in the vertical with it and it's a monster ... get in close to make the shot and those 400 rounds will go a long way.
Most who land 7-9 kill sorties aren't doing that in just 1 sortie and are usually pickin' in the furball and/or vulching ... I doubt strongly that they are getting that many kills in true Air-to-Air Combat.
Don't get me wrong ... there are a select few who can get those kind of numbers in a single La-7 sortie ... but they are far and few between.
Shane ... one of the best La-7 pilots in the game routinely landed 4 and 5 kill sorties, but 7 to 9 ... very rarely and there was probably a few vulches in the bunch too.
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To be effective in a LA7 just take off then get some sleep.
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Speed is life in the LA. U get slow u die.
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Slap said it better and shorter than I did.
Remember, its way easier to keep BAD habits in an La7 than it is in other planes becuase pilots can use the speed to escape the consequences of their mistakes. You can excell in ACM as an La7 pilot, but doing that requires that you work at it...that you figure out what you're doing wrong and learn how to do it better.
There is (almost) nothing scarier than a really good pilot in an La7
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Ho...Run.....
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Originally posted by Ghastly
No, I'm not being facetious.
I don't do at all well in the LAs, and I don't really understand what I do differently than others do - I see guys landing 7-9 kill sorties in them on a regular basis (and often, you see guys land a half dozen sorties in them of 5 or more kills).
When I do fly them, I find that between the slow ROF on the cannons and the amount of bullet drop I go through most of an ammo load for 1 to 2 kills, and that coupled with the fact that by the time I get anywhere in one I've burned 1/2 a tank of gas they are frustrating and ineffective to fly.
What are you guys that are able to use them effectively doing differently?
Read below Ghastly.
Originally posted by BaldEagl
I never fly the LA-7 but I do fly the 5 occasionally. Where I have convergences set anywhere from 400-650 in other planes, I have it pulled into 200 in the LA-5.
Also, don't fly over ~10K. They aren't that good with alt.
Bring all of the charts you want, I rarely go over 15k in one, but I've never had a "noticeable issue" above 15k. 9 times out of 10 I'll be the one landing. Why? I've come to realize A LOT of folks have a hard time understanding the Energy status of their opponent.
Originally posted by indy007
Fly really fast. Never slow down. Cherry pick and vulch your way to victory.
oh, and hot-pad.
Sure. Too bad the La7 is one of the best turners in the game. 90% of the MA "pilots" fail to understand this, so they HO, BnZ, etc. They are actually using the planes weaknesses. Turning is easy in the La7 as long as you DO NOT use flaps, instead use throttle manipulation.
Originally posted by goober69
i usualy get three or so kills go rearm and come back lol
at take off i dont climb much higher than 6 k anything mroe is just a waste of fuel cause your gonna be on the deck as soon as your in.
bout the only planes that will catch you is a temp and a few others in a flat chase though anyone with supreme alt can come down and hang with you a min.
use your speed to hammer people, wehn things get thick extend away on the deck and climb back up to 6k
i always take full fuel and if im going more than a sector i cut rpm on take off down to 2000
still gives 2000. ft min rate of climb
If you can only manage 3 Air to Air kills, your gunnery is to blame. You must be wasting ammo to go through the 450 rounds. My guess is you aren't utilizing the Convergence to your flying habits.
Originally posted by SlapShot
Keep it fast, fight aggresively, and fight in the vertical with it and it's a monster ... get in close to make the shot and those 400 rounds will go a long way.
Most who land 7-9 kill sorties aren't doing that in just 1 sortie and are usually pickin' in the furball and/or vulching ... I doubt strongly that they are getting that many kills in true Air-to-Air Combat.
Don't get me wrong ... there are a select few who can get those kind of numbers in a single La-7 sortie ... but they are far and few between.
Shane ... one of the best La-7 pilots in the game routinely landed 4 and 5 kill sorties, but 7 to 9 ... very rarely and there was probably a few vulches in the bunch too.
Shane was good, but SECOmust was better. SECO and I had some knock down drag out fights on the Pizza map. I recollected one such occasion and was flamed for "building my ego up".
Last night I managed 3 kills with 387 rounds left. Simaril, Bison and another. Last week I landed 9 kills in one sortie, with no rearms. I don't pick, rarely vultch and don't run. Typically, I'll land 4-5 a hop with ammo to spare and fuel/oil being the culprit.
I realize my post will come off as "ego driven", but it isn't. I turn the La7 often and it is still the best plane for base defense. I am very crafty in an La7.
Flame on.
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wow how are you not good in the la7??? the la7 can out excel, climb, turn, and dive better then most planes in the game. TURN?? yes the LA7 turns amazing once you really learn to fly it. now the gas part all you have to do is climb about 10k takes 3 minutes lol, then turn down your rpms a little. there is no reason to fly a la7 at pull paste at 10k. also for the guns set them at 350 and then aim at 350. thoughs guns are really good when you hit something.
im no LA pilot but i do know how to fly it.
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Originally posted by sunfan1121
Speed is life in the LA. U get slow u die.
Anytime you want to test this theory PM me in game. You'll learn how incorrect your statement is.
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The La-7 is simply the best unperked fighter in the game ... for MA style combat that is. Its even better than most perked planes imho.
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Most people see only the top speed when they look at the La7. Few realize that actually the acceleration and power are it's biggest asset and that flying full power all the time puts all agility & power to waste. Work your throttle!
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Originally posted by DmonSlyr
wow how are you not good in the la7??? the la7 can out excel, climb, turn, and dive better then most planes in the game.
Very true ... but if you want to really "fight" the La-7 you must know how to handle all those in concert.
It's advantages can end up being disadvantages if not used correctly ... and u will be a very easy kill if you stick around.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Shane was good, but SECOmust was better. SECO and I had some knock down drag out fights on the Pizza map. I recollected one such occasion and was flamed for "building my ego up".
Shane was more than just "good" in an La-7, as was SECOmust.
Back in the AH1 days, I flew the La-7 exclusively for at least 8 tours and landed 1000s of kills in that time period.
I know my way around an La-7 too, and have also had many multi-kill sorties, but to accomplish that ... without picking and vulching ... requires many hours in an La-7 fighting the "fight" and knowing how to handle the "beast" ... most who fly the La-7 don't know it like that ... hence my remark that most who do land 7-8 kill sorties are pickin' and vulchin'.
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In a word.........
Throttle
No plane other then the spitfire requires as much throttle input. Yes you can scream around at top speed and spray...but run into a guy in a lala who fly's the "X" and works the throttle and your in a fight. The lala's (both of them) are outstanding e fighters. Work the gas & use the verticals and your rudder and the la-7 is as dangerous (or more so) then anything in the game...
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Karaya (and others too) if I understand correctly you guys rely heavily on it's turn capabilities to outmaneuver your opponents to get the kill shot (i.e. dogfighting) - rather than relying on it's speed to "slash and run".
That's probably a big part of my problem, then - I fly the F4U almost exclusively and it doesn't out-accelerate or out-turn too much of anything in the game, so I tend to rely heavily on staying fast, having alt over my opponents to begin with, and in retaining energy as much as I can - transitioning to lag , breaking high for a vertical turn, or using high yoyo or barrel roll attack if I need to turn more than about 90 degrees to follow my target. I'll try being a lot more aggressive in the engagement when I fly the LA's and see how that goes.
I definitely am wasteful with the ammo in them - I can't figure out how to gauge anything but a simple "saddled-up" shot, and even then, if he's jinking, he seems to fly right between rounds half the time.
Thanks for the responses - I'll try the planes out again and try to force a change in flying style accordingly, and see what happens.
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You need to practice your gunnery and learn how to set up kills. You should never shoot more than a quick burst or two at a time.
Personally, I rarely ever take pop shots at a plane unless I know I will hit it. As long as you can find the planes to shoot, an LA 7 should have enough ammo to easily kill 4 to 5 planes in a sortie. Hell I don't even fly them that much and I had a 9 kill sortie in a LA7 last week.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
I fly the F4U almost exclusively and it doesn't out-accelerate or out-turn too much of anything in the game...
Um, lol... wow. I think you need to actually pay attention to the aircraft you are flying. The F4u can outturn some of the Spitfires with its flaps. Your problem with the La7 is probably related to this.
Fly all out, don't hold back and bnz like a noob. See what your plane can actually do. You'll die, yes, but you'lll learn.
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Even though it turns well .............use the vertical.......... there are many AC that can make better instantanious (not sustained) short turns for angle.
There is alot of control from the rudder ........It (the rudder) saps E use it dont abuse it.
It also hangs very well .......
Actually flaps are usefull but you have to use them sensibly...... I only use them in turn 1 v 1 and usually when yoyo ing or chopping the top angle of a loop.
Good gunnery skills turn the La into a monster as (nose up) it can chop angles at will and you can hang it and lead with a falling nose....but dont even touch the trigger at range over 400.
In furballs throttle control is essential or you will find it prone to over shoot at worst or simply lag the target at best.
If you "HO and run" in it you will simply add to its (IMO) undeservedly bad name. However such a reputation does mean that you are the target of first choice for a gang bang.
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simple, dont fly the garbage
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90% of the time when I think I'm in a runstang I land only to find out I was in a laffie. Go figure. I fly a laffie like a runstang like a yak like a spitfire. I guess that means you should fly it like a spit on steroids.
If you run into a laffie that gets into a turn fight with you it's prolly me cause I think I'm really in a runstang cept I don't do all that much running.
What did I just say? :noid
Ren
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Originally posted by redman555
simple, dont fly the garbage
Says the noob.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
90% of the time when I think I'm in a runstang I land only to find out I was in a laffie. Go figure. I fly a laffie like a runstang like a yak like a spitfire. I guess that means you should fly it like a spit on steroids.
If you run into a laffie that gets into a turn fight with you it's prolly me cause I think I'm really in a runstang cept I don't do all that much running.
What did I just say? :noid
Ren
:noid
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Read below Ghastly.
Sure. Too bad the La7 is one of the best turners in the game. 90% of the MA "pilots" fail to understand this, so they HO, BnZ, etc. They are actually using the planes weaknesses. Turning is easy in the La7 as long as you DO NOT use flaps, instead use throttle manipulation.
Flame on.
Then tell me, how do i outturn an LA with a pony at mid speeds? 200-250 knots?
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lol? im a noob? i been playin 4 years, plus, LA takes like no skill to fly, a real plane is P-47, accually takes skills
-BigBOBCH
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Originally posted by Ghastly
That's probably a big part of my problem, then - I fly the F4U almost exclusively and it doesn't out-accelerate or out-turn too much of anything in the game, so I tend to rely heavily on staying fast, having alt over my opponents to begin with, and in retaining energy as much as I can - transitioning to lag , breaking high for a vertical turn, or using high yoyo or barrel roll attack if I need to turn more than about 90 degrees to follow my target. I'll try being a lot more aggressive in the engagement when I fly the LA's and see how that goes.
Well Ghastly, it's time I got you into the TA to explore what the F4U can do. In a stall fight, any F4U will out-turn the La-7. I know, you've probably never seen an La-7 that slow.. :) A good La-7 stick will try to avoid getting slow with flaps out, and try to keep the fight in the vertical. Despite that, he'll need to be a good stick if he meets one of the better F4U drivers who know how to exploit the Corsair's strengths.
Urchin and I flew a few duels with the La-7 and F4U-4, down on the deck. We agreed that these aircraft are a very even match, until speed bleeds down. The slower the fight got, the more the -4 hog began to gain the edge. Thus, the La-7 needs to get a quick kill, before too much E is bled down.
One of the great strengths of the F4Us is their ability to transition from a fast fight to a slow fight absolutely seamlessly. They are comfortable at virtually any speed from 90 mph to 550 mph.
I haven't spent much time in the MA this month (a few hours), but I did see an La-7 that made me chuckle. I spotted a single dot on dar slowly heading to a field. I was in a P-47D-25, so I started climbing. Passing 15k I see a distant, high dot. I kept climbing. At about 18k I see the icon. It's an La-7 6k higher than me. He pushes his nose over and dives towards me. I spiral out of the way and the La-7 blows by. I follow him down, but eased out at 5k while the La-7 went straight into the ground... Guess this fellow didn't know that the La-7 gets a wee bit stiff at speed. He knows now.
As to the La-7 in general....
One of the better La-7 sticks is 2bighorn. We've flown countless duels, but almost never with me in an La-7. I usually fly something else. A while ago, we had an epic brawl that lasted at least 10 minutes. I was flying a 109G-2. My conclusion was that the 109G-2 was at least the equal of the La-7 1v1. It simply handles better at low speeds, but only if you keep maneuvering to the left. Roll or turn right and torque becomes a limiting factor. Go right too often and you hand the advantage to the La-7. Most players will not encounter this as they don't fly for 10 minutes at the absolute limits of the airplanes. However, when the difference is razor thin, you notice where one is better than the other. You notice and remember it for future reference.
Likewise, 2bighorn and I dueled La-7 vs Spit14. Again, this was a very even match, with neither pilot being able to gain enough for a shot. That is, until the Spitfire ran out of WEP. Then, the La-7 held a slight advantage. Enough that 2bighorn eventually was able to get guns on.
Flying duels to measure aircraft performance is usually more entertaining than dueling to measure winkie size. Neither of us ever cared who won, we were more interested in defining the aircraft capabilities. We probably dueled every fighter match-up possible. We've even dueled Ju 88 vs Boston (Boston is far superior). That's one reason why 2bighorn is so good. He knows the absolute limits of every plane in the game. Every duel with him is a white-knuckle experience, no matter how good you are or wished you were.
Now, 2 bighorn is in and out of the game frequently. He changes handles more often than socks. His style is a dead giveaway though.. When he next returns, look him up in the TA or DA (where he spends much of his time) and ask him to show you the finer points of the La-7. He is probably the best La-7 driver that I've seen and a very able teacher to boot.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by redman555
lol? im a noob? i been playin 4 years, plus, LA takes like no skill to fly, a real plane is P-47, accually takes skills
-BigBOBCH
WE don't fly REAL PLANES in this game redman. But yes, the La7 DOES take skill, other than HO's, BnZ timid "tactics". I fly the D11 from time to time.
Legal Disclaimer - Some AH2 participants are pilots in the aviation field, this reply is not directed to those in said field.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
90% of the time when I think I'm in a runstang I land only to find out I was in a laffie. Go figure. I fly a laffie like a runstang like a yak like a spitfire. I guess that means you should fly it like a spit on steroids.
If you run into a laffie that gets into a turn fight with you it's prolly me cause I think I'm really in a runstang cept I don't do all that much running.
What did I just say? :noid
Ren
Nothing. :)
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Originally posted by Mus51
Then tell me, how do i outturn an LA with a pony at mid speeds? 200-250 knots?
90% of the people flying the La are dead. It's the other 10% you need to worry about.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
WE don't fly REAL PLANES in this game redman. But yes, the La7 DOES take skill, other than HO's, BnZ timid "tactics". I fly the D11 from time to time.
Legal Disclaimer - Some AH2 participants are pilots in the aviation field, this reply is not directed to those in said field.
thing u dont understand is... all ppl use that piece of garbage LA for bzing and HO's
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Originally posted by redman555
thing u dont understand is... all ppl use that piece of garbage LA for bzing and HO's
Actually, you need to take a reading comprehension course. I DO understand they use it like that. If you actually took the time to READ my FIRST post in this thread, that was covered.
BUT, you're too busy trying to hijack the thread, you forgot.
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I almost never take up an La-7. I hate that plane. I can't kill anything in it.
Tonight I was so frustrated with my inability to catch all the La-7's and such that I took one up. Here's my $.02, from an La-7 N00b:
The guns suck. Don't even bother shooting unless you are right on the guy. Point blank most folks can hit the bad guy (except me).
I think alot of folks disrespect the La-7 for all of the reputation reasons above. If you can fly it well, you can surprise folks who don't think you'll stick around to fight.
Widewing, with all due respect, the La-7 and G-2 might be a great matchup at stall speeds, but as an MA ride, that duel is virtually meaningless as a comparison. If you hang out for 10 minutes at stall speeds in the MA, one of you is gonna get picked.
Finally, the La-7 ought to be perked. No way the C-hog should be perked instead of the La-7.
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Set ur convergence to 250-275, get the snapshot, and start looking for your next target :D
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Originally posted by toonces3
Finally, the La-7 ought to be perked. No way the C-hog should be perked instead of the La-7.
You were not in AH when 50% of the flying planes were Chog hoing each other using laser guided hispanos ?
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Originally posted by 1Duke1
Set ur convergence to 250-275, get the snapshot, and start looking for your next target :D
with the guns in the nose... why 250-275?
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The answer is simple.
NEVER HO a P-47, A-20, B-26 or B-25 you WILL lose every time. Always fight it in the vertical. Get in close and stay there. Fly cruise power settings while en route to a fight - not full blast. Have a plan for getting in. Use WEP on the way UP, not on the way DOWN. Don't let a P-47 or A-20 sucker you into a turn fight - you WILL lose. And most important...
Plan your exit strategy. Everyone will want to bullseye you on the way out.
Wolf
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Originally posted by Ghastly
No, I'm not being facetious.
I don't do at all well in the LAs, and I don't really understand what I do differently than others do - I see guys landing 7-9 kill sorties in them on a regular basis (and often, you see guys land a half dozen sorties in them of 5 or more kills).
When I do fly them, I find that between the slow ROF on the cannons and the amount of bullet drop I go through most of an ammo load for 1 to 2 kills, and that coupled with the fact that by the time I get anywhere in one I've burned 1/2 a tank of gas they are frustrating and ineffective to fly.
What are you guys that are able to use them effectively doing differently?
LA's are farily simple planes.
Stay low and fast and youve got it made.
The ballistics on the LA are crap though so rarely will you see me flyin it.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
The answer is simple.
NEVER HO a P-47, A-20, B-26 or B-25 you WILL lose every time. Always fight it in the vertical. Get in close and stay there. Fly cruise power settings while en route to a fight - not full blast. Have a plan for getting in. Use WEP on the way UP, not on the way DOWN. Don't let a P-47 or A-20 sucker you into a turn fight - you WILL lose. And most important...
Plan your exit strategy. Everyone will want to bullseye you on the way out.
Wolf
I beg to differ. I beat P-47s head-on and in turn fights with the Yak-9U on a damn-near constant basis. Then again, most of those Jug pilots probably aren't too good... But the Yak is superior as far as turning goes. And the 20mm cannon in the nose works wonders on those concentrated wing shots. Hell, even engine hits!
And as for the La-7, I don't have too much experience in it... But the experience I do have in the plane has shown me that it's an exceptional point defense/late response aircraft. And with proper use of the throttle, you can stay on somebody's six until either your fuel or their fuel runs out. It's very nimble, very quick, and has good rudder response so you can keep any augertards in check.
I'd fly the Lavochkins more often, but I can do so much more in the Yak-9U, and I get more points for every kill I get. I feel that the Yak is generally a better aircraft than the La-7, and I likely won't change my mind about that anytime soon.
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Here's a couple old film clips of fighting from disadvantaged positions in an LA7. First film is vs. a P38 with alt., second is outnumbered vs. N1K, Yak9U, and Temp. Please excuse the poor gunnery and spastic views..
http://www.filefactory.com/file/554457/
As stated previous where the LA7 really shines is base defense. As long as you have time to get airborne and build up at least a little steam you are in business. Use the great visibility, acceleration and gun package to your advantage. My personal best while defending is 11 kills on one loadout, and 7 kills with 215 rounds left when I pranged the prop on the radar tower.
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First off watching guys land kills is kinda like fishing.
For ever guy you see pull up to the dock with a big string of fish, there are 9 more that either got skunked or only got 1 or 2.
Same thing with Aces High. For every guy you see landing 5 kills you can bet that there are 8 -9 others who either died, ditched, bailed, or snuck home with 1.
I've flown the la's for a long long time. And I like them, mostly fly the 5 nowdays.
Too many complaints & dweeb calls in the 7. I have yet to land a 9 kill sortie in an la. My personal best, 5 landed, or 6 not landed. However I have learned to not be greedy. When I have 2 kills I'm looking for a way out. If I get 3 I'm pushing hard to get back home. If I get 4 someone ambushed me on the way back and gave me no choice, but fight or die.
My advice, first come to the TA someday, start with the la5.
Really Wring that thing out, learn what it Will and what it Won't do.
Spend a half hour with the lead computing gunsight on, following people around so you really "Know" what the right lead looks like.
Head for Mid war purple arena, la5 is king in there, and lower #'s = easier on the SA. Once you've mastered it in there for a couple of weeks. Then its late war.
8k and no more is the rule for la's. If he's higher you either sucker him down, or turn and run but do NOT go up. The lower they are the better they like it.
Use wep to climb to 8k, then pull rpm down to cruise settings for fuel conservation. Fly smart, don't get greedy, don't try to turn with the turners and eventually you'll start landing 3 -4 kills on a good day. Be happy with that!
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hi ghastly, if you want i will post some of my old La7 films that i saved.
i dont want to force it on people, but if you think it would be usefull then shout and ill post them.
S!
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I think you have to different topics here. Flying the La-7 and landing high kill # sorties.
Obviously hitting the rearm pad allows you to string sorties together to get a higher kill #. Staying with "single" sorties a number of factors come into play. Ammo load/leathality, flight endurance & plane characteristics for sure.
The La-7 doesnt have the range, leathality or views of some other planes so I think getting higher kill totals/sortie can be tougher then people think. Its an "easy" plane to get 2-4 kills in but a tough one to get 5 or more IMO.
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[hijack]hey snap, im going to DA for a bit if youre up for some 109e :)
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
with the guns in the nose... why 250-275?
well the standard gun have the trajectory of a blowgun !
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I would like to use the LAs more but I cant stand the butt ugly cockpits.
Sure wish HTC could find the time to update more of the 90s era looking cockpit art. I know, they are bz working on tour of duty or whatever its called.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
[hijack]hey snap, im going to DA for a bit if youre up for some 109e :)
Would love to but is workday for me, also have a showing for house....
If your on for the snapshot maybe we can hook up after...
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Originally posted by Ghosth
When I have 2 kills I'm looking for a way out. If I get 3 I'm pushing hard to get back home.
Hmmm.
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Obviously, the strategy for effective flying is get 2 kills and run like a *****.
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Originally posted by straffo
well the standard gun have the trajectory of a blowgun !
They have the same ballistics as the German MG 151/20 and pretty much the same damage too. 3 Russian cannons equal about 2.5 German ones in effectiveness.
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Ok, watch yer gas. It disappears just about the time you decide its time to go land yer 6 kills.
Shoot everyone at 200 yds. One, one second burst will take em apart.
Use your energy to your advantage while forcing them to bleed theirs. Simple but very effective. "sides you have lotsa E.
Kill the top guy first, don't bypass any high guy for a lower, seemingly easier target.
Always fight "up".
When the guy in front of you breaks, fly to a point you will "meet" and kill him. Don't just follow on his 6.
Take a slice outa that pie and meet him at the point of his demise. When you get there don't forget to shoot him. If you miss just bleed his E a lil more and repeat.
An LA turn fight = he turns, you fight, he dies.
Wait! This almost sounds like flying a runstang again! :noid
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Originally posted by Viking
They have the same ballistics as the German MG 151/20 and pretty much the same damage too. 3 Russian cannons equal about 2.5 German ones in effectiveness.
Are you sure on that?
I'm not an expert by any means but the La cannons seem to have far more drop than the German cannons.
I could certainly be wrong- I'm not good with either, but the Russian guns seem much more droppy to me.
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Originally posted by toonces3
Are you sure on that?
I'm not an expert by any means but the La cannons seem to have far more drop than the German cannons.
I could certainly be wrong- I'm not good with either, but the Russian guns seem much more droppy to me.
I agree. The ballistics on the German 20mm's seem better than the Russian 20mm's. In fact, I have an easier time hitting with the German 30mm's than the Russian 20s although it may have as much to do with rate of fire than with actual ballistics.
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Ki-84 > La7
much more satisfying to kill something with a much lower ENY
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Strangely enough i've out turned La-7's in P-38's and killed them. The 38 was actually out knife fighting the la's in that instance. Now they might have been bad pilots, probably were. The last i remember was Waffle although i don't know if Waffle is an La-7 afficianado.
It just suprised me the 38 was able to hang in a knife fight with an La-7 even with a bad pilot. A number of the kills were augers when they spun out in a flat turning fight on the deck. That says to me that some of them were noobs.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Wait! This almost sounds like flying a runstang again! :noid
Often, when someone rides along in my pony, they comment that planes tend to fly right in front of me, as if begging to be shot. I explain to them that all the ACM in the world is nice, but not that necessary if you simply point your nose at where the enemy is going to be... .then pull the trigger to cause the bullets to meet him there. This may oversimplify things a tad but it's really all one needs to do to shoot down bad guys.
The one weakness that many, many players of this game have is that they repeat their evasives. I may miss the first time.. the second time I'll be ahead of them. :aok
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I out turned and killed an La-7 while flying a Mossie actually.
Mind you, I was on fumes and out of 20mm ammo. I killed him with the four .303s.
Based on how he was flying at the start and how he was flying near the end, I think the whole thing was frightfully unexpected to him. It took quite a long time to down him.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I agree. The ballistics on the German 20mm's seem better than the Russian 20mm's. In fact, I have an easier time hitting with the German 30mm's than the Russian 20s although it may have as much to do with rate of fire than with actual ballistics.
Your right, russian 20s were more of spray and pray weapon, not sure why they didnt work on a better 20mm the entire war.
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It's extremely rare for me to fly the La7, except for when one of my buddies posts a mission. I just don't get along with it. I do prefer the Yak9U. Less guts, less ammo, but more satisfying to get kills in it.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Often, when someone rides along in my pony, they comment that planes tend to fly right in front of me, as if begging to be shot. I explain to them that all the ACM in the world is nice, but not that necessary if you simply point your nose at where the enemy is going to be... .then pull the trigger to cause the bullets to meet him there. This may oversimplify things a tad but it's really all one needs to do to shoot down bad guys.
The one weakness that many, many players of this game have is that they repeat their evasives. I may miss the first time.. the second time I'll be ahead of them. :aok
Steve's assessment is correct. In the TA I teach the Pie concept of dogfighting. A simple analogy: If you think of gramma cutting yer favorite pumkin pie. She may cut it from the center out to the edge. That cut is a straight line. Now if the outside edge of your pie crust describes the circle your plane flies (be it up, down, left or right) all you need do is determine his turn then fly along that beautiful straight cut Gamma made in the pie untill you show up that the same place the other guys plane turned to. At that point in the time space contimuim you merely shoot him and continue on yer way (please do not call me Einstein).
This applies to all planes, including the Laffie :).
Did anyone wanna hear about my "defensive egg"? :)
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Originally posted by Adonai
Your right, russian 20s were more of spray and pray weapon, not sure why they didnt work on a better 20mm the entire war.
When I shoot a guy at 100-200 yds, while flying a Laffie, I guarantee I'm not spraying and praying. :)
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When I shoot a guy at 100-200 yards I almost always die in the collision.:D
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Bomber-wise the LA-7 is a pretty easy kill. I dont climb high in bombers, only 10,000' to 12,000', but its still higher then most LaLas. So they always come in low in a belly attack. The only real problem with them is when they are silhouetted against the ground like that the only thing you can see on them is the red on their engine cowling Its very difficult to see them.
The few times Ive seen them slash they actually buzz around very well. I guess its their fuel constraints that prevents guys from setting up slashes with them. The LaLas almost always come zipping right in. I know one thing the LaLas can take some hits too and still make it to a landing strip.
Ive sent many running home with their pants on fire.
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La-7 is my preferred ride if it isn't ENY unobtainable. Most of my kills are using this plane. I still suck, I can't dogfight. But in stealth mode below radar this plane shines.
Yes, you really need to learn fuel management. I run max slow to my intended operational area and ditto going back after a couple kills. It has quite a range if you are cautious with it. Going back I get up high, save gas for landings and coast back.
It turn fights well enough that I can move with witty guys trying to get away from me.
At 200 yards you will vaporize nme.
I have vulched runways from way up high, but I quit doing that. La-7 is great for that, but nme takes it kind of personal. It is a boom and zoomer.
My tactic I use this plane for is unsuspecting people not paying attention out on the fringe.
Just fly it a lot and learn as you go. It is very forgiving with hard landings.
I also get killed by these suckers pretty good, too! LOL
Nuff said.
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I don't operate in theatre using Daubie.
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re:
Ghastly
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 447
How do you fly an LA effectively?
No, I'm not being facetious.
I don't do at all well in the LAs, and I don't really understand what I do differently than others do - I see guys landing 7-9 kill sorties in them on a regular basis (and often, you see guys land a half dozen sorties in them of 5 or more kills).
When I do fly them, I find that between the slow ROF on the cannons and the amount of bullet drop I go through most of an ammo load for 1 to 2 kills, and that coupled with the fact that by the time I get anywhere in one I've burned 1/2 a tank of gas they are frustrating and ineffective to fly.
What are you guys that are able to use them effectively doing differently?
__________________
In game ID: Grue (& Elvene/-Ghost in a sim far away and long ago - Ghastly then Ghost across the pond until just recently)
"You'd better learn secretarial skills or else get married." - Modeling agency to Marilyn Monroe in 1944
Cherry Picker - and proud of it!
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Daubie I suggest you swing by the TA and hook up with one of the trainers, or ask one of the good La7 sticks in the MA for some pointers. Learning how to get the most out of your favorite ride will make AH all the more enjoyable for you.
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As if there aren't enuff of these frikin annoying planes in the MA.....now we're giving lesson on flying them.:rolleyes: :noid
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Originally posted by RedTop
As if there aren't enuff of these frikin annoying planes in the MA.....now we're giving lesson on flying them.:rolleyes: :noid
Hmmmmm...."we fly em all" as part of the signature block? What's up with that?
I don't normally fly em but I did happen to get 181 kills in them last tour. I guess they fly ok.
Besides the fact they fly like a spit on steroids you need to be aware of their fuel burn. Everything is fine until you hit Center tank. When you hit that if you are around 25 miles from home then you need to start back at 3/4 of center tank fuel left. It is the only tank that she burns through quickly.
Hope this helps.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Hmmmmm...."we fly em all" as part of the signature block? What's up with that?
A couple of squaddies will take em up on ocassion....thats the "We" part...Me...no. I flew it 1 time in AH1 and 1 time in AH2.
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Originally posted by Adonai
Your right, russian 20s were more of spray and pray weapon, not sure why they didnt work on a better 20mm the entire war.
The B-20 20mm cannon used on the 3-gun La-7 is probably the best 20mm of the war. Perhaps not on a gun-by-gun basis, but on a firepower per lbs. The B-20 weighs little more than a .50 cal.
And they didn't need a "better" 20mm if they needed more range, penetration etc. They had the excellent 23 mm for that.
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Agressively.
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Originally posted by Viking
The B-20 20mm cannon used on the 3-gun La-7 is probably the best 20mm of the war.
I have to disagree. The 20mm Hispano is a far superior weapon.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I have to disagree. The 20mm Hispano is a far superior weapon.
Only that it weighs twice as much as the B-20 and has about 25% lower rate of fire.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I have to disagree. The 20mm Hispano is a far superior weapon.
Hispanos are too heavy and have a lower than normal rate of fire.
The Japanese Ho-5 is another very good aircraft gun.
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I find the Japanese Ho-5 fairly inaccurate compaired to the English Hispanos. I need to get in closer to deliver effective killing blows in the Ki84. The Ki61 with the same cannons nose mounted seems much more lethal. Wish the 84 had the same gun setup as the 61, that would be an awesome fighter.
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Originally posted by RedTop
Ho...Run.....
Or.......
HO, get damaged and bail
or... (drum roll please) my favorite.....
insert rag into fuel tank, ignite
Makes for fabulous campfire sing-alongs.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Viking
The B-20 20mm cannon used on the 3-gun La-7 is probably the best 20mm of the war. Perhaps not on a gun-by-gun basis, but on a firepower per lbs.
Fire power / gun weight it was obviously seen as very efficient................ on paper.
The B20 was plagued with problems of poor service life and unreliability............
The 3 cannon prototype La7 armament was based around the B20 yet it took another year before production line 3 cannon versions were coming out of Tbilisi and even then the cannon had to be stripped and re furbished (or scrapped) after minimal use compared to all other gun/cannon variants in use by the VVS.
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That's strange Tilt, because from what I can find the Improved B-20 which entered service in 1945 was considered more reliable than the ShVAK it replaced. It also served as a defensive gun in post-war bombers until the Russians standardized on the 23 mm cartridge for that role. The Berezin B-20 was in production until 1949.
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Or.......
HO, get damaged and bail
or... (drum roll please) my favorite.....
insert rag into fuel tank, ignite
Makes for fabulous campfire sing-alongs.
:rofl
:rofl
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in any LA, be aware of the planes you're up against, if its anything like some, in fact almost any American plane, chances are you can out-maneuver it, dont try to turn into spit-9s and spit-16s i really dont run into much more than that
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Originally posted by Viking
That's strange Tilt, because from what I can find the Improved B-20 which entered service in 1945
Its really about when in 45 the B20 was finally considered improved.........
The design i think went back to 43 and was designed into the La7 in early 44 yet not even released for production in the La7 until February 45 still incurring problems during the last months of the GPW which were overcome by typically stripping the guns off and replacing/refurbishing every 2nd sortie. (generalisation)
I dont know much about the B20 after May 45.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
How do you fly an LA effectively?
Strap on your favorite panties and take off.
Tumor
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Originally posted by Tumor
Strap on your favorite panties and take off.
Tumor
WORD
:rofl
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
I don't normally fly em but I did happen to get 181 kills in them last tour. I guess they fly ok.
who wants to see a recent film of a 3 on 1 where i was the 1 ? :p
Ren is in the 3 and he is flying an La7.
oh my sides hurt it was too funny.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
who wants to see a recent film of a 3 on 1 where i was the 1 ? :p
Ren is in the 3 and he is flying an La7.
oh my sides hurt it was too funny.
I do, Bat
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I've got 169 kills in an A-20:)...of course I died in it 91 times to do that.
The reality is that the plane is a small part of the overall equation. The real question is in how the pilot employs the plane in question. The La-7 gives you a greater opportunity to engage and disengage at will...so you can either take greater risks or survive bigger miscalculations.
A pilot who flys late model planes in a "smart" manner can easily compile good numbers regardless of actual ACM skills. The same sort of numbers can be achieved in a "lesser" ride if its flown in more optimal circumstances. It is very difficult to fly "for numbers" under less then optimum conditions in any plane.
I'm quite capable of running up pretty good K/D numbers when I'm in the mood...but the reality is that overall my numbers in a la-7 are little different then my #'s in an A-20 or a P-51 or a Ki-61...
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"A pilot who flys late model planes in a "smart" manner can easily compile good numbers regardless of actual ACM skills."
True, but a select few planes modeled in this game allow the same to be said for pilots that fly stupid. I'm not a great pilot. I'm decent, but far from the best. I'm sloppy, I get myself killed seemingly nonstop, and put myself into REALLY bad situations where I get shot down.
I'm sure you all (71 Sqn) remember the time I decided to take up LAs for one tour, exclusively? I got to 125 kills and 25 deaths, most in the LA7, a handful in the LA5 (including a death or two). In one week. I just got sick of it. After one week I quit my "one full tour in nothing but LAs" plan because it was boring as hell.
I was dogfighting, chasing runners, mixing it up low in the middle of huge furballs, chasing bombers, you name it. Across the board it gave me a 5:1 kill ratio, and I'm NOT the best person to use as an example!
Few planes in this game fly like that, and this is one of them. Regardless of skill, the LA7 truly is an "easy mode" plane, and nobody can deny.
How do you best fly it? Turn the engine on and it goes forward. Other than that, *ANY* style of flying you choose to use with this plane will work. Same as with the Spit16, IMO. Point it, it goes there, shoot, it kills, only the LA is notably faster so it can run away or chase runners.
EDIT: 25 deaths, not 5, stupid keyboard
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Originally posted by LancerVT
I do, Bat
one is enough for me :p
Gangbang film (http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/gangbang.ahf)
at times i thought he was just out of ammo and trying to RTB....but no, he was waiting for the perfect time to cherry pick.....and still missed!
at 4:50 into the film i lost an aileron for no apparent reason. no body was shooting and nobody had guns on me. anyone know what that is all about?
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
at 4:50 into the film i lost an aileron for no apparent reason. no body was shooting and nobody had guns on me. anyone know what that is all about?
If you consider lag then Zebra's plane would have been further forward and yours further back on his FE......he had guns on you for a shot.
the film does not seem to record his shot but maybe he had tracer off (i'm not going to watch it again)
However if you watch the film from rens perspective you see the hit sprite ...it was only one sprite so i assume that the aeleron was also hit when the two others had made a pass on you earlier.
Nice to watch your throttle work. Thanks
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cc that Tilt, most likely the case.
ren and i dont get on well, to be honest theres nothing too wrong with his la7 flying, apart from not killing me and being a little timid.
edit: although it would be more fun if we found out ren has .damage aileron commands or something :D definitely nobody had guns on and the spit16 never fired.
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Originally posted by bongaroo
I need to get in closer to deliver effective killing blows in the Ki84. The Ki61 with the same cannons nose mounted seems much more lethal. Wish the 84 had the same gun setup as the 61, that would be an awesome fighter.
I made a post on that subject a while back saying the same thing. If the ki-84 had the same gun arrangement as the 61 it would be a true killer. It does seem much easier to destroy a plane with the ki61's guns vs the ki84's. It's pretty strange being they are both have the same guns, only difference is their placement.