Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: lutrel on December 06, 2007, 06:46:22 AM
-
We will be warming up the engines at 7PM'ish Central time. Tonights missions are going to be mostly organized fighter sweeps of English airfields. There may be a bomber or two in the air, as I have a few pilots that still need checked out on a bomber.
-
See Rule #5
-
Send everybody off in a different direction?We fly as a group, why would we do that?:D
Love BK
-
See Rules #4, #7
-
lutrel, if you wish to stay a member of the bulletin board, I strongly urge you to read the forum posting rules located at the top of every forum.
KONG1, if you cannot constructively add to a thread, I urge you to consider not posting in it. If you think what you had to offer is constructive, then maybe you need to rethink your involvement on this bulletin board.
-
Sorry Skuzzy, I had a rough day and didn't have the reserve to deal with him in a decent manner. Guess it's a good thing we weren't sitting in the same bar................
-
Where have you been Kong?
-
Avengers fighter sweep tonight 6:44pm est - pre flight preperations for squad ops night:
all front line bases of allied coast had nothing but radar knocked out, only 4 people on 1 bishop ( allied ) 3 knights ( axis ).......I might of called it wrong and apologize if I did, but funning around bombing , is different in my eyes, I would like to think that other stuff besides "just the radar" would have been hit .........so no worries.....it was shortly fixed and the games began.......
at 8pm est or shortly after had 12 knights on 11 of them Avengers..vs 3 bish, then became 4 bish and 13 knights........
really enjoyed the 2 vs 1's and 3 vs 1's. even 1 or 2 of the engagements was 4 vs 1 ..even if sometimes the 2 or 3 or 4 had the alt advantage....
after the axis being wiped out a couple sorties........they started grabbing alt out of their fields heading toward their rear bases.......coming across their motherlands coastline roughly 12 to 16K altitude... and from here on started attacking in droves of 3 +( + many more really )and the 3 or 4 BLOODhoundings I witnessed it was more like 4 to 7 on 1....... taking cherry picking or BnZ type bounces in repetition....until the 1 defendant was all used up......
I strongly encourage all Avengers to come to the Wingman Tactics Clinic that will be held on 12/12/2007 in the Training arena.......That Rolex has set up and a good handful of Trainers will be there to help out people wanting to learn how to put to use good practical and proper wingman tactics......
I really enjoy fighting against you Avengers....and I am hoping you flyers seriously take up any offer to only strengthen your group...........these Clinics are a blast and truely will help you, help you so much that in a very short time you can use just 2 planes and tackle a gaggle of 3 to 5 or 6 instead of the opposite......, please give it a serious thought at least......we work with squads as a group often......
-
The Arena changed quickly TC. 4 of us went allied to equal the numbers at 12 to 12, As allied grew some of us went back. I was last to go, as you know I was winging with you, and the numbers were even. As allied numbers became higher, I went back over.
The arena goes back and forth, as soon as you complained, 2 of us went back over.
All ya gotta do is ask.
Buk
-
At one point I had no less than 6 spits on me.I dodged all of them but had a mid air with a spit crossing my 3-9 line:cry,I dont mind... it was in fun anyway:D
TC:
TA on 12/12..but what time? or is it just a drop in when you can thing?
-
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
...these Clinics are a blast and truely will help you, help you so much that in a very short time you can use just 2 planes and tackle a gaggle of 3 to 5 or 6 instead of the opposite......, please give it a serious thought at least......we work with squads as a group often......
You assume they fly in numbers in order to succeed, when (from what I've seen) they fly in numbers because they are a social squad and like flying with the guys.
I realize that "social gaming" is a hard concept for the AvA dueling lone-wolfs to comprehend but it does exist. It is funny though how the frustation of dealing with a squad like this leads to these "let us help you become uber pilots like us" posts.
-
Just a quick point - TC isnt offering to help you become "uber" pilots - he's offering help to update/learn/master team work. From what I've seen of TC, he will put himself out to help anyone and everyone - and I personally thank him for that.
Wurzel
-
Originally posted by Trukk
You assume they fly in numbers in order to succeed, when (from what I've seen) they fly in numbers because they are a social squad and like flying with the guys.
I realize that "social gaming" is a hard concept for the AvA dueling lone-wolfs to comprehend but it does exist. It is funny though how the frustation of dealing with a squad like this leads to these "let us help you become uber pilots like us" posts.
Well said Trukk. We do not like to gangbang...as a matter of fact, there were several times I called out to my squaddies asking them if all is ok down there as I did not want to jump in on a "good fight"...I too was a victim of a 1 on 4 at one point and, yes, one peeled off to watch, but as soon as I started to extend, sure enough, in dove the one that peeled off. As for numbers, yes they were lopsided at times, and yes, we avengers switched around to try to even it up and yes, we switch back when they were lopsided the other way.
I am not in AH to kill..and none of us are. We are in it to have fun with our friends...
Finally, the taking out of dar was done when no one else was in the arena...as you so eloquently pointed out TC....that was so we can satisfy our desire to fly some buffs...again, NOT at the expense of your good time....but, of course we are criticized for it....
TC....we are there to have a good time...we are doing our best to make our good time a good time for all...and most agree that we have made certain changes in our style to comply with your rules....but still not good enough for a select few. Back off and appreciate our willingness to respect your good time...we are not bad guys....we are adapting and at the same time adding to the enjoyment of the arena.
Raptor33
-
Originally posted by gpwurzel
Just a quick point - TC isnt offering to help you become "uber" pilots - he's offering help to update/learn/master team work. From what I've seen of TC, he will put himself out to help anyone and everyone - and I personally thank him for that.
Wurzel
Perhaps if you saw some of the compalining by TC during the evening on 200, you woulkd not look at him as someone trying to help. Many have offered help and we are always looking for advice.....and we are all spending a lot of time in the TA learning. TC claims to offer us help on this board, but in the arena all he does is criticize us when he dies.
Seems a select few just want to complain about us......and actually, I see it as entertainment. I died a couple of times last night...once a victim of a well flown "gang bang...no complaint here...and the other a victim of being completely outflown by Bear76....of which I learned from.
Funny how certain guys can not accept losing a dogfight. It is always someone elses fault.....What made me really laugh one time was that someone responded on 200 after I killed them that "you had an alt advantage"...uhhhh.....duh? Whenever someone loses it is due to an advantage of some kind...be it alt, E, numbers, experience, etc....BTW...when I saw a few guys land multiple kills, I complimneted them...when I did or any other avenger did, nothing....but funny how all I would see was "gangbangers" or "learn to fly" or crap like that. Canopies are poretty big in the AvA....but still not big enough for some of your heads. Cartoon planes gentlemen....not the real thing. Wake up and come back to reality.
Raptor33
-
my bad, I thought I posted the 1st time that I enjoy flying with and against you all, and I was not seeking holy grail type 1 vs 1 duels.......I enjoyed the 2 vs1's 3vs1's and the 2 or so 4 vs1' I got into and I did not complain .........also notice I never even claimed anyone tried to HO......
I merely offered you all a chance to attend a wingman clinic....and I believe the time is 10 pm est on 12/12 and another will be hosted the following week...
If your group can not make the aloted timeslot but would like to still have a workout with your group just let us know....
the Trainers Site has a Calendar of events for when Clinics are scheduled....
Yes Bukrub and 1 or 2 others were switching sides to even out the odds.....
I merely call it like I see it and as for any fight I had, I think I gave a lol in regards to a fight I had to where someone asked me what was wrong and someone mentioned 2 or more on 1 or some on 1 whatever......then told all to have a good night , have fun and the arena when I logged.........
some tips on how I survived the 3 and 4 vs 1's.......
don't saddle up and get fixated on 1 target...don't stay in the saddle maneuvering on same plane with another plane behind your 3-9 line......
work all planes into the same plane of flight ( ie... have them all get bunched together when you are looking at them, instead of coming from 3 directions).....
never stay steady for a firing solution for more than 3 seconds...
never stop looking/spanning all views when in a multi con environment....
extra tip - always (ALWAYS) film everything.......so you have the ability to go back and review if something is in question......
~S~ cya up for some more good times
edited for raptor33 before I am off to work: if I lose a fight it is noones fought but my own, nothing more regardless of numbers or how I was defeated.....simple enough
and I offer and help people in the arenas all the time, I usually do it via private messaging though, sometimes I will do it on open channel as well though, when I see someone flying their plane wrong.....
-
I, for one, accept that explanation TC....just seemed different last night...but as Bear76 pointed oout....text does not always offer the meaning of what is being said. We are so used toi being criticized with sarcasm, much of what is said can be taken that way.
I accept fault for reading your post as sarcasm. I will give all the benefit of the doubt from hear on in. This was the second time I made the same mistake...I did it last night with Bear.
My apologies TC.......maybe you can I can wing sometime and I can grab some tips from you.
Raptor33
-
A lot of what might be seen as ganging IMO is all of us coming to a 1 on 1 not engaging but staying close to help if needed.I know a few times I was asked by Jar or Rap or whoever was close"are you ok ,need help?"I know Ive done it..stay close but not" in" the fight.
I know I will be attending the clinic,I might be getting used to this game,but anything to help get better at it I'll do.
*note* I did most of what you pointed out for multi cons TC in my 6v1 fight but film it!Man I wish I did..oh well,next time
-
I have a 'real' pilot friend in the UK who was in the BoB and is still alive. Not for long I fear.
He was in a Hurricane most of the time and talks of ALWAYS flying in pairs with a wing man.
His Squad leader used to ground them if any of the squad broke the rule not staying with your wing man.
When I asked him about 2 on 1, 3 on one, he said the following:
"It was rare you found a solo pilot as the enemy had the same rule as us.
If you did see a solo pilot he was probably heading home because he lost his wingie.
Wether it was a simple kill or a difficult one, they always took them down so 2 on 1 was the rule of the day.
NEVER did they go 1 on 1 and the other guy sit and watch".
So there you have it! Simple rule. Fly in pairs, kill in pairs.
S! hrdhrd
-
Originally posted by hrdhrd
So there you have it! Simple rule. Fly in pairs, kill in pairs.
S! hrdhrd
Right'o ol'boy HRD...Ive been beating that horse since we got here!For the most part its working..
-
Originally posted by bkwolf
Right'o ol'boy HRD...Ive been beating that horse since we got here!For the most part its working..
I always wondered what the response of a flight leader in real life would be if he heard one of his pilots say "Joe is in a great 1v1 fight. I dont want to be accused of gangbanging so I will keep my alt and let Joe take care of buisness."
Curious.....all kidding aside...if I were to watch from above and see my wingman getting beat up, when is it appropriate for me to jump in? After he dies? If I jump in before he dies, is it considered gangbanging? If yes, then why have squads? In the AvA, taking bases is frowned upon and covering your squaddies butt is frowned upon....so why have squads? Furthermore, if I am not there to help my wingman, then why have a wingman? No offense, but much of the advice and criticism I get from guys in the AvA is that the Avengers are clueless as it pertains to wingman tactics....but when we use them we are then accused of gangbanging.
Just a thought.
Raptor33
-
Originally posted by raptor33
I always wondered what the response of a flight leader in real life would be if he heard one of his pilots say "Joe is in a great 1v1 fight. I dont want to be accused of gangbanging so I will keep my alt and let Joe take care of buisness."
Curious.....all kidding aside...if I were to watch from above and see my wingman getting beat up, when is it appropriate for me to jump in? After he dies? If I jump in before he dies, is it considered gangbanging? If yes, then why have squads? In the AvA, taking bases is frowned upon and covering your squaddies butt is frowned upon....so why have squads? Furthermore, if I am not there to help my wingman, then why have a wingman? No offense, but much of the advice and criticism I get from guys in the AvA is that the Avengers are clueless as it pertains to wingman tactics....but when we use them we are then accused of gangbanging.
Just a thought.
Raptor33
Well...a couple of things....
Plainly, this is not real life. Some people like to fly it like it was real life (we had four of them last night, if memory serves), and that's fine, but the fact is that you don't die and so the need to ensure that you don't die really isn't there. Many of us, if engaged in a good fight, would rather get shot down than have someone sneak in and pick the guy who is about to shoot us. Many of us wouldn't, but I think most everyone wants the enemy to have a sporting chance. That isn't real life, of course, but neither is this game.
Back in the Days of Old, and sometimes in the Days of New, when you had (or have) 30 or more people in the arena, wingman tactics worked just fine and lots of people used them. But when the numbers are low, using those tactics ends up with 3 or more people chasing one guy. The conclusion is usually not in doubt, and one or two such fights is often enough to make the one guy decide that he's had enough pummeling for an evening, so he leaves for the MAs. And the numbers get lower.
You've put your finger on one of the problems we have in AvA, which is squad-related. Squad members like to fly together. That works fine in the MAs, where you have hundreds of people, but in a small arena you really need to have another squad, or at least a similar number of detached people, for balance. The squads that regularly attend AvA have learned - as I'm pleased to hear the Avengers have learned - to have a few people switch sides to even things up until other people blow in. When that happens, just say you'd like to switch back with your squad, and go ahead.
It all works out in the end, hopefully.
- oldman
-
Im right with you Rap.I think the whole thing is the way we do what we do.If im your wing IM going to cover your six..and shoot at anyone that is a threat to us.if your locked on a con and my job is to clear your six..thats what im going to do...if two or more Avengers happen to be there ..it might be seen as ganging.
Yeah its not RL but we try to fly like it is.My take was if its not squad night then whatever goes,if it is squad night 15 to 4....sucks to be you.
-
If your squad has some great sticks, you should split your squad to train, there is nothing more humbling to get tail feathers handed back to you by likes of Storch, Tbarone, Kong, Wildesau, etc. It may smart awhile but when you actually have a good fight and send one down in flames You feel like a million bucks!
-
Originally posted by bkwolf
.
Yeah its not RL but we try to fly like it is.My take was if its not squad night then whatever goes,if it is squad night 15 to 4....sucks to be you.
15 vs 4 turns to 15 vs 0. Sucks to be you.
-
Originally posted by Slash27
15 vs 4 turns to 15 vs 0. Sucks to be you.
Not when your flying agenst the avengers. A 15v4 only means that one of your buddies will get 3kills and the rest all get 4.:aok
-
Ya know...after reading this thread I am confused. I have only been in here for a week and am not familiar with the planes setups. I use to be a pretty fair stik in warbirds but rather suck in here for now. REPEAT "For Now".
But when I fly for 15 min to reach the cons just to have 1 shoot me dwn in 10 secs why wouldn't I want a wingman to help me. Besides I keep reading about people wanting a historical arena. What's more historical than the will to suvive?
In my eyes I do not see anything wrong with what is being done. And trust me I have been jumped by 2 or 3 or4 at times also and I am still trying to learn how to fly all over again. There are some skillful stiks in here. An yes I do get very upset when I can't out manv the cons. But no matter how mad I get it just makes me want to get better that much more.
As stated in a previous post....when I die it is my fault one way or the other(except for rams). I am gonig to rectify this problem by going to TA and dieing plenty more times. But for long I will rise to the top and still take my beatings as they come.
I do love flying with my squad "The Avengers" but I also am in there for the excitement of the KILLS. I am a true fighter jocky...I want that kill :)
This was not ment to offend anyone or criticize.....just haven't posted in here before and stating where I stood.
The Dog
-
Originally posted by Slash27
15 vs 4 turns to 15 vs 0. Sucks to be you.
In any fighter it sucks to be me
:D
-
:lol