Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SteveBailey on December 07, 2007, 12:57:54 AM
-
See Rule #5
-
See Rule #5
-
LOL and British cops still dont cary guns
-
And thank goodness everything is perfect here in the U.S., so we can take pot shots at the U.K. with a clear conscience!
-
According to the comparison of international crime statistics produced by the UN's Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention, England and Wales had 9,766 crimes for every 100,000 people in the year 2000. America had 8,517, South Africa 7,997 , Germany 7,621 and Russia 2,022
bollocks.
Criminologists believe that a note of caution needs to be introduced into analysis of the data, because of the different ways in which UN member countries record crimes.
just a note of caution? haha
a well worn troll,
and screw the un
-
And just where in the article does it say that England has the worst crime rate in the world? Maybe the worst food, but I wonder about that article since no link to the report is offered.
The UN crime statistics do not measure muggings, so how did that get in there? Also, the statistics for 2000 are not newly published. The latest UN report lists these world rankings per capita:
Murder: US-24th, UK-46th
Robberies: UK-8th, US-11th
Assault: US-6th, UK-8th
Rape: US-9th, UK-13th
I don't think any of those rankings are something to brag about.
-
Doesnt surprise me, but i would like to add a few points.
Firstly, our Government is incompetent, has been for most of the last 50 years. Thats why no one votes anymore, its just a poularity contest between morons. Theyve made pretty much everything illegal including breathing and being a alive. (ok thats a slight exageration, but not as much you might hope!) This makes any list of crimes a very long list!
Secondly we've adopted a very odd culture of claiming for everything, you stub your toe on a cobblestone and some poor sod ends up in court. This results in an enourmous amount of claims of crimes (real and imagined) being made. People are more likely to report a crime in a country where they think they'll get some cash for it.
The government response to rising crime (and in fact to everything!) is to raise taxes, and throw more money at it. This money doesnt actually go anywhere useful though, usually ending up in the pocket of somebody who has a job title like "health and safety officer" . The result is a silly number of busybodies running round with clipboards getting in the way of the people trying to do their job (the cops in this case) and slowing them down with questions like "So your a police officer? So what is it you do?" to justify their own existence. These questions usually result in less police officers and a lot of paperwork. The paperwork costs more money, and has to be done by somone. Usually the remaining police officers.
So you end up with a country where the people are being mugged, the clipboard carriers are rich, and the police are tied to their desks with a full inbox.
Maybe im just cynical. :D
my point? well, the cops dont need guns. Well maybe a few, but theyve got enough already(and all they end up doing anyway is shootin innocents!) Its not like we have many gun totting criminals here. They just need less paperwork and "initiatives" so they can actually get out and do something useful.
edit :
btw steve? whats wrong with gun control in the uk? are u really suggesting that guns would have stoped any of that crime?
For starters most, if not all of the crime your discussing in this survey had nowt to do with guns in the first place. So Gun control works, becouse the casulaty rate would have been far higher otherwise.
Only a few people in Britain own guns, usually for hunting, farmers for pest control etc. Guns are relativly rare amongst the criminal types to.
They are available, but far more trouble than their worth. For starters if your caught with one by the cops your in trouble, cos they'll call in an armed response unit and wont bother asking difficult questions. Secondly, an unlawful person might decide a gun could be of use to him. If he knows you've got one he'll try and take it, leaving you in the unenviable position of having to shoot him, or lose it and be shot yourself.
Which brings us to the big problem with guns, especially with regards to people taking the law into their own hands:
When your found with a smoking gun, standing over a dead body, and with no witness's(or confused and terrified ones) what do you think the cynical british bobby is going to think?
"but officer, he was trying to nick my wallet"
"oh really? prove it."
And what happens if you were mistaken, and person that was "attacking" you, was mentally ill/drunk/suffering/foriegn and you didnt undertand their intentions? They need help/directions or whatever and you draw your weapon....
Its murder, simple as.
-
I'm gonna say yup, England is a ****e place to live. The government is crap and have been nicknamed "Liebore" rather than "Labour".
I'm also gonna say that gun crime in England is still extremely rare, this bollocks about us not being allowed guns has left us with no means to defend ourselves is exactly that, bollocks. In my 34 years, I personally have never, ever, seen a firearm being carried or used by anyone committing a crime. Oh I'm sure it happens, bank robberys, gangland killings, etc.....but your average mugger / burglar / etc does not go armed.
So rare in fact that when someone is murdered......or, for example, a police officer is shot.......it makes national news. National. All the papers, all the TV stations.
When was the last time a murder of a non-famous private citizen made national news in the US?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
-
Steve your implication is that gun control is the cause of high crime rates. I cant see the mechanism here, how exactly would flooding the streets with firearms help reduce crime?
-
Nice troll Steve
-
As it happens, the handgun ban was introduced on the back of hysterical media reporting in the wake of the Dunblame tragedy. The controls were already in place, and the only people hurt by the ban were the responsible shooters. No compensation was awarded for handing in their (legally held) firearms.
Illegal arms are available - evidenced by the use in London, Manchester, Birmingham etc (all reported by the BBC/ITV/National News)
Gun crime in the UK is real - get used to it. Whilst not condoning the proliferation of handguns (i've no use for one - unless I wanted to take up target shooting), why should the responsible shooters of this country (closest chance for an olympic medal we have) be forced to go abroad to practise, receive no compensation for their firearms etc?
Would I want the police armed here - given the way they cant keep their weapons in sight at Heathrow - wouldnt trust em with water pistols. Armed response units are not too bad actually - but lack experience and require more training.
Wurzel
-
From the FBI and Home Office, police recorded crime in the US and England and Wales, rates per 100,000 people:
Murder
US - 5.7
E&W - 1.4
Forcible Rape
US - 30.9
E&W - 26
Robbery
US - 149.4
E&W - 178
Aggravated Assault
US - 287.5
E&W - 73 (there is some difference in the categories, but the major difference is because of assaults with a weapon)
Burglary
US - 729.4
E&W - 1,172
Theft of cars
US - 398.4
E&W - 400
Overall, you are more likely to be robbed or burgled in England and Wales. You are more likely to be murdered, raped or seriously assaulted in the US.
-
Originally posted by RTHolmes
Steve your implication is that gun control is the cause of high crime rates. I cant see the mechanism here, how exactly would flooding the streets with firearms help reduce crime?
You should look at Florida who had one of, if not the highest, murder rates in the US. This rate went down dramatically when they began allowing their citizens to carry concealed firearms. many other US states took the hint and reduced their rates also.
-
Maybe the worst food, but I wonder about that article since no link to the report is offered.
...But you have to admit, Rolex, they have better beer.
-
You should look at Florida who had one of, if not the highest, murder rates in the US. This rate went down dramatically when they began allowing their citizens to carry concealed firearms. many other US states took the hint and reduced their rates also.
The murder rate went down across the US. One of the largest falls (if not the largest) was in New York, not exactly known as a haven of concealed carry.
And Florida is rapidly reversing the drop, since the law was changed to broaden the definition of self defence in 2005.
There were 408 murders in Florida in the first six months of 2005. The first six months of 2006 saw 518 murders, and the first six months of 2007 589.
And firearms murders increased most, with 237 in the first 6 months of 2005, rising to 487 in the first six months of 2007, so the increase is nothing to do with Dexter ;)
-
Originally posted by AKIron
You should look at Florida who had one of, if not the highest, murder rates in the US. This rate went down dramatically when they began allowing their citizens to carry concealed firearms. many other US states took the hint and reduced their rates also.
When the criminals already have access to firearms, allowing the citizens to carry them too might work as a deterrant.
However in a country where even the ciminals dont have easy access to firearms, thers no point making them available to everyone, cos the average citizen wont bother, and the average criminal will have a field day.
As long as either side has guns there will be unneccessary deaths.
Therefore the best solution is not to allow the citizens guns, but to prevent the criminals from getting their hands on them. Not easy obviously, but then the right course rarely is.
Close down the factories making the guns, close the shops selling them, and the dealers trading them, tighten up laws regarding who can carry them, sell them, make them, maybe throw in electronic tagging so each and every bullet can be tracked. Let market forces take their toll, suddenly no two-bit mugger can afford a gun, do everything neccessary to cut that supply line....and then nobody has to live in fear of being shot.
-
Originally posted by Hurricane
edit :
btw steve? whats wrong with gun control in the uk? are u really suggesting that guns would have stoped any of that crime?
Here in this country, or at least where I'm from, people indeed believe that one of their basic rights is the right to protect themselves and their children. Now, as long as you obey the laws, and show responsibility, then you should be able to own a gun. I believe in the right to own guns, and have grown up around them my whole life.
I believe there are times when killing someone is the only option, or an option that should be on the table to the victim. I believe in the right to kill home invaders, and anyone who attacks you with a gun. Sean Taylor should have had his piece armed and ready, and maybe it would have turned out different with him. This is not to say that the right to have a gun doesn't come with great responsiblilty, it certainly does, but noone should ever be banned from having a weapon, if indeed that weapon is for the sole purpose of defense!
-
Originally posted by Swoop
When was the last time a murder of a non-famous private citizen made national news in the US?
Wow....my guess is that you can't get Fox News Channel over there.
(A member of the Skye Network)
68TOX
-
I've been living in the UK for 49 years, and never been murdered once, ever.
Nice wind-up Steve - & very topical. ;)
-
Originally posted by Rolex
And just where in the article does it say that England has the worst crime rate in the world?
Uhhh in the title.
-
Originally posted by Swoop
In my 34 years, I personally have never, ever, seen a firearm being carried or used by anyone committing a crime.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
Most people can say that, anywhere.
-
hurricane... just curious..
In what country where people are armed do they pull out guns and shoot people for asking directions? Is there something special about brits that would make em do that?
Also.. is it a habit that otherwise normal people will mug you? that if you have to kill one... It will be found that he has no criminal record at all and works for a florist and is deacon at his church and sings in the choir?
For some reason... the muggers that are shot here all seem to have really bad records of previous crime.
lazs
-
Hurricane, I disagree with your premise that criminals dont have easy access to handguns/semi-auto's in the UK. Where do you think the kids that are shooting people in Manchester, London et al are getting thiers - legally?
The controls that were in place were adequate - if properly policed. There was no requirement to ban handguns, which was a knee jerk, ill-thought out piece of popularist legislation at best, and a previously thought out way of removing the ultimate defence at worst.
I agree with you this Govt is corrupt, self serving, sleazy and greedy. They spin, manipulate and interfere where they are not wanted - at any and every opportunity.
Wurzel
-
Personally I take no joy from the English people suffering from higher crime
rates. I just hope they can do something to lower them again.
-
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rolex
And just where in the article does it say that England has the worst crime rate in the world?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SteveBailey
Uhhh in the title.
To quote the odious Larry The Cable Guy:
That's funny. I don't care who ya are.:)
-
Originally posted by Casca
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rolex
And just where in the article does it say that England has the worst crime rate in the world?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To quote the odious Larry The Cable Guy:
That's funny. I don't care who ya are.:)
:lol
He must have missed the first line just below the title too though it does have a qualifier:
"England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations."
-
Ive always been rather fond of the Brits. They have some stones and always did, they speak the same bloody language, and best of all they aren't mainland Europeans. I have some fond memories of England, "those Im actually able to remember that is". Another great thing about the bloody Brits is that they Love their bloody drink, "even if fully capable of ruining a great bloody stout".
But, they got their own thing going there and it includes gun control and unarmed coppers. Its their country so they can call their own shots, and as nice a place as it is there is a lot of crime there. Our Brit cousins are saddled with the same insane Liberal disease as we are. Maybe even more cause they are geographically closer to the morons on the Nobel Society.
Most Europeans look down on Americans as a violent people. Imagine that?:lol A continent that started wars that murdered 70 or 80 million people in the last 90 years thinking that? But most have never even been to America and their opinions are skewed by the Liberal/sensationalist media machine.
I would be skeptical of any report that relies on Police statistics. I say that cause Im very skeptical of Police stats in the first place. And without question I would feel safer in England then I would South Africa, and Ive been to both more then once. And frankly, Ive loved em both.
-
Hurricane, I disagree with your premise that criminals dont have easy access to handguns/semi-auto's in the UK. Where do you think the kids that are shooting people in Manchester, London et al are getting thiers
For the most part they aren't getting guns.
Just look at the figures. Whilst the British press keeps talking about an "explosion" of gun crime, the number of murders committed with guns last year was 58. In 1991 it was 60.
Compare that 58 with 11 - 12,000 firearms murders a year in the US, where people can supposedly "protect themselves".
There's been a lot of talk in the British press about the number of teenagers shot dead in Britain this year. So far the figure is 10. In the US about 1,800 teenagers and younger children were murdered with firearms last year.
Whilst there is some firearms crime in the UK, it's a tiny amount compared to a country like the US, where firearms are easily available.
Here in this country, or at least where I'm from, people indeed believe that one of their basic rights is the right to protect themselves and their children.
Here in the UK we believe it's better not to have anyone shooting at us or our children. We believe people should be able to go shopping without having to worry what gun to take to protect themselves.
With our much, much lower homicide rate, vanishingly small firearms homicide rate and lack of spree shootings, our approach seems to work better than the US's.
-
Originally posted by Nashwan
For the most part they aren't getting guns.
Just look at the figures. Whilst the British press keeps talking about an "explosion" of gun crime, the number of murders committed with guns last year was 58. In 1991 it was 60.
Compare that 58 with 11 - 12,000 firearms murders a year in the US, where people can supposedly "protect themselves".
There's been a lot of talk in the British press about the number of teenagers shot dead in Britain this year. So far the figure is 10. In the US about 1,800 teenagers and younger children were murdered with firearms last year.
Whilst there is some firearms crime in the UK, it's a tiny amount compared to a country like the US, where firearms are easily available.
Here in the UK we believe it's better not to have anyone shooting at us or our children. We believe people should be able to go shopping without having to worry what gun to take to protect themselves.
With our much, much lower homicide rate, vanishingly small firearms homicide rate and lack of spree shootings, our approach seems to work better than the US's.
The clear majority of all the gun crimes occur in areas that are "Gun Free" or have the strictest gun laws.
"If you ignore the murder rate, D.C. isn't such a bad place." -Marion Barry talking about a place wheres guns were almost abolished.
-
Originally posted by Nashwan
For the most part they aren't getting guns.
Just look at the figures. Whilst the British press keeps talking about an "explosion" of gun crime, the number of murders committed with guns last year was 58. In 1991 it was 60.
Compare that 58 with 11 - 12,000 firearms murders a year in the US, where people can supposedly "protect themselves".
There's been a lot of talk in the British press about the number of teenagers shot dead in Britain this year. So far the figure is 10. In the US about 1,800 teenagers and younger children were murdered with firearms last year.
Whilst there is some firearms crime in the UK, it's a tiny amount compared to a country like the US, where firearms are easily available.
Here in the UK we believe it's better not to have anyone shooting at us or our children. We believe people should be able to go shopping without having to worry what gun to take to protect themselves.
With our much, much lower homicide rate, vanishingly small firearms homicide rate and lack of spree shootings, our approach seems to work better than the US's.
We do protect ourselves with guns. In fact we do it all the time. Another reason not to trust statistics. Whenever the Police or lawful citizen kills an offender lawfully the case report made at the time by Police is still classified as "Homicide" for reporting purposes. Its only later that a States Attorney and Police officials decide if its a Lawful homicide or not. Same thing with prison homicides. They kill each other all the time but looking at the stats you couldnt tell if it was in a maximum security prison or the White House lawn.
So again statistics are very misleading. And another thing, if a visitor from England were to visit the USA and if they stayed out of gang infested minority areas of inner cities then his chances of being killed by a gun in America are about as much as his chances are back home.
I'll bet 90% of this nations homicides are committed by poor,urban people of color where both the offender and victims are also people of color, and it might be more then 90%. Hey, same as in England right?:eek:
And the other 98% of America? Most of all the places where lawful citizens are legally armed? No doubt safer then Britain.
BTW these urban areas in big cities, that account for almost all our violent crime, are also places which have gun laws as strict as England.
-
Whenever the Police or lawful citizen kills an offender lawfully the case report made at the time by Police is still classified as "Homicide" for reporting purposes.
No, the FBI has a separate category of "justifiable homicide" for such cases. The FBI reporting rules are very clear on this.
Justifiable homicide—Certain willful killings must be reported as justifiable, or excusable. In the UCR Program, justifiable homicide is defined as and limited to:
* The killing of a felon by a peace officer in the line of duty.
* The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen.
Because these killings are determined through law enforcement investigation to be justifiable, they are tabulated separately from murder and nonnegligent manslaughter.
Same thing with prison homicides. They kill each other all the time but looking at the stats you couldnt tell if it was in a maximum security prison or the White House lawn.
I'm not sure if the FBI figures include prison homicide, but it's not going to change the figures much either way. In 2002, the last year I have seen statistics for, there were 68 homicides in prisons and jails in the US. The rate for incarcerated criminals is just under 4 per 100,000, substantially lower than the rate for the US as a whole.
So again statistics are very misleading. And another thing, if a visitor from England were to visit the USA and if they stayed out of gang infested minority areas of inner cities then his chances of being killed by a gun in America are about as much as his chances are back home.
I'm not sure what the rates for holidaymakers are, as they tend to engage in very different activities on holiday. But excluding gang violence, you are still far more likely to be shot and killed in the US than the UK.
I'll bet 90% of this nations homicides are committed by poor,urban people of color where both the offender and victims are also people of color, and it might be more then 90%.
According to the FBI, about half the murders in the US are committed by whites, half by blacks.
And the other 98% of America? Most of all the places where lawful citizens are legally armed? No doubt safer then Britain.
Safer in that you are less likely to be mugged? Possibly, although if you take out the worst 2% of Britain, no.
But safer as in less likely to get murdered? No.
The murder rate for the whole of England and Wales, which includes inner cities like London, Gtr Manchester etc, is 1.4 per 100,000.
The only US states that beat that are:
New Hampshire 1 per 100,000
North Dakota 1.3
South Dakota 1.2
That's 3 out of 50 states that are safer than the British average.
If you look at England and Wales by police force area, not a single force has a murder rate as high as the US average. Of the 41 force areas, 20 have a murder rate lower than the lowest US state, New Hampshire. Dorset, for example, has a murder rate of only 0.28 per 100,000 people.
-
Years ago I was told a little saying that after having taken statistics in college I found was accurate.
There are 3 kinds of liars, liars, damned liars and statisticians.
-
dunno if you heard about the Jean Charles de Menezes incident outside the uk?
The innocent foreigner (well almost, illegal immegrant I think but even so, thats deportation at worst!) shot 7 times cos somone mistook him for a terrorist. And that was by a copper who was supposed to be well trained and well informed. And u think we should have more of these? handed out like sweets to any old moron that wants one?
No thanks.
One innocent bystander killed, one badly placed shot that take a child life, one misunderstanding...it all leads to one death to many.
Im still stunned by the number of people that think theyre safer in the US with a gun than in the uk without one.
The numbers have been posted once already: 58 deaths in one year to 11-12000.
If the population of the US was 190 times larger than the uk this would be roughly equal....
60.2mill (uk) to 300mill (us)...hang on thats only 5 times bigger.
So your 38 times more likely to be shot in the US than the UK. Obviously this will vary from place to place within both.
Yet the US is safer?
And yes you can get guns in the UK, but its not easy. A mate of mine reckons he knows a bloke whos got contacts that can, given a few months, find a replica handgun converted to fire real bullets. For a few £k (might shop around...). Most guns these days are in museums.
The threat of handguns doesnt give me sleepless nights, and for defending my home, a cricket bat will suffice.
Edit: btw there are roughly 80million gun owners in the US. I couldnt find exact figures for the UK, but a 1991 survey reckoned it had gone up slightly from 0.1%...thats only around 600 people. Both numbers would increace if u add in illegally held firearms.
-
1, I didn't say what the FBI does or doesnt do. Im not in the FBI, and unless you are then link me to some info on how they classify. Im saying what we do. Our original case report is "Homicide" just like it would be if 30 kids in a school were killed. My point was about stats. People quote the kind of stats that back up their argument and dont worry much about where it came from. You cant trust stats.
2, They figure it as a "Homicide" in the jurisdiction where it occurred. But it doesnt really affect the law abiding people in that jurisdiction does it? Now would you know that just by looking at the stats. And Homicides are only one thing. There are many kinds of violent assaults that occur in prisons, and that the local jurisdiction has to eat the stats for.
3, Yeah 1/2 by whites and 1/2 by blacks. Right? Florida had about the same stats too. The problem with that was Hispanics were counted as white. Even still victim rates are still 6 times higher, and offender rates are 7 times higher. And you'll notice the Justice Dept., or FBI, makes no mention of Hispanics. Only white,black, and other. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm Some cities, like LA, have most of their murders committed by Spanish street gangs, and we have many, many committed by Latino gangs. I guess its far easier for Politicians to digest by calling the offenders white. My comments were "poor inner city people of color".
4, I dont need stats, dont trust them, and there are many parts of English cities I wouldnt go into either. I never said we have less homicides then England. I just said you have to be careful throwing stats around. Most of all if you dont live here, have never been here, or have never been an American Big City street cop for 25 years.;) Boy, the things Ive seen done with stats. :rofl
Originally posted by Nashwan
No, the FBI has a separate category of "justifiable homicide" for such cases. The FBI reporting rules are very clear on this.
I'm not sure if the FBI figures include prison homicide, but it's not going to change the figures much either way. In 2002, the last year I have seen statistics for, there were 68 homicides in prisons and jails in the US. The rate for incarcerated criminals is just under 4 per 100,000, substantially lower than the rate for the US as a whole.
I'm not sure what the rates for holidaymakers are, as they tend to engage in very different activities on holiday. But excluding gang violence, you are still far more likely to be shot and killed in the US than the UK.
According to the FBI, about half the murders in the US are committed by whites, half by blacks.
Safer in that you are less likely to be mugged? Possibly, although if you take out the worst 2% of Britain, no.
But safer as in less likely to get murdered? No.
The murder rate for the whole of England and Wales, which includes inner cities like London, Gtr Manchester etc, is 1.4 per 100,000.
The only US states that beat that are:
New Hampshire 1 per 100,000
North Dakota 1.3
South Dakota 1.2
That's 3 out of 50 states that are safer than the British average.
If you look at England and Wales by police force area, not a single force has a murder rate as high as the US average. Of the 41 force areas, 20 have a murder rate lower than the lowest US state, New Hampshire. Dorset, for example, has a murder rate of only 0.28 per 100,000 people.
-
Originally posted by Hurricane
The threat of handguns doesnt give me sleepless nights, and for defending my home, a cricket bat will suffice.
And what do you do when they ban cricket bats, of course not a total ban , you will be allowed to keep your bat locked up at the cricket club. Because what do you need a cricket bat at home for?
-
hurricane.. our homicide rate is falling.. but.. It matters not.. you simply never had a very high rate, guns or no. There is no gun law you guys have ever passed that has decreased your rate of homicide or violent crime.
Now you can look at that any way you want but.. If something changes in your countries makeup that makes it more like ours..
Oh, I don't know... let's say it gets a little more "diverse".
We have already been there.. we have gone up and down on the gun thing and we find... ta da... that in our "diverse" country where half the homicides are commited by one small segment of the racial makeup of our country... that.. the more lax the gun laws.. the less violent crime we have.
Now.. you can either work toward keeping your country lilly white or.. you can face the reality and look to us as an example of how it works when not everyone looks or thinks just like you.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Nashwan
For the most part they aren't getting guns ... We believe people should be able to go shopping without having to worry what gun to take to protect themselves.
well said :aok and believe me, I'm not having a go at the US, the situations are completely different. The UK is starting from a point where most of the population doesnt have access to firearms, rather than imposing gun control on a society where most already do have access, and ownership is a constitutional right.
Out of interest, just imagine that US citizens didnt have a right to bear arms (still think of that Family Guy joke when I hear that btw :rofl ) and gun ownership and crime was very rare. Would you really vote for a new law which allows everybody to carry firearms?
-
and for nashwan... I hope that you are not saying that it would be impossible for me to get a gun in your country in a day or so? that I couldn't make one in a leiserly afternoon in the shop?
If you admit that.. then you have to ask... did the laws do any good? did depriving citizens in any way decrease attacks on people or homicides in general? well.. no.. it didn't really.
But you say... "gun crime has gone down"... well.. maybe.. depends on who twists the numbers and they can and will change in any case... but lets give you the huge benifiet of the doubt..
If anyone can still get a gun and they aren't... what has changed? there are plenty of guns around still.. so why don't they use em?
simple.. the penalty is horrendous for using a gun..even getting caught with one.
Soooo... one has to ask.. wouldn't you have exactly the same effect if you allowed everyone the right to defend themselves with any gun they chose but still maintained your horrendous penalties for criminal missuse?
Of course you would.. good people never shot each other in any case and those of you who would murder are still doing it regardless. You are fortunate that with your lilly white population on a tiny little island with its traditions of only slaughtering people in far away lands... that your rate is and has been low in your own country forever.
My guess is that you won't be able to maintain that... you will have to enter the real world and deal with larger populations of people who don't think the way you were ingrained to think. At that point we will see how well your "take guns away from the people" theory works out.
My take is that all you lilly white your-0-peeeeans better either learn to breed or how to fight.
lazs
-
This thread should have never been started in the manner it was.