Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Coronado on December 08, 2007, 10:19:25 PM
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WHAT AN EFFING P.O.S. !!!!!! nuff said.
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Originally posted by Coronado
WHAT AN EFFING P.O.S. !!!!!! nuff said.
It's confusing to say the least....And since we have had some GREAT fights and generally get along well...let me ask ya this...
If 2 planes collide in real life , and lets just say minimal speed to stay in flight , wouldn't more than likely BOTH planes sustain significant damge to prolly kill both guys or at least cause both planes to not be flyable?
Just wondering your thougts as I really don't like..nor totally understand the collsion modle.
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Wrong. Collision model is perfect. Don't have a hangover, because its obvious your drunk Coronado.
(Waits for Lusche/Ack-Ack/Bronk to Step in on this thread).
Regards,
Subway
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Okies cant fly!!!
:noid
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Someone Call Sudz and ask him to do lunch.....
:p
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See Rules #4, #5
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*plus
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in retrospect,,i think you were being sarcastic,, but ive heard similar replies which people actually believe it is "perfect"
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Yes Hitech is out to get you
Mwhahahahahahahahhahah
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Collision model is as perfect as it will get with current technology. Avoid getting rammed and stop complaining.
Regards,
Subway
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Originally posted by Coronado
See Rules #4, #5
i don't understand how t n b brings on collisions........when i get into furballs, i don't get hit..or hit anyone......well, i DO hit plenty of pilots.....usually with pieces of my airplane as they shoot the crap outta me.:D but seriously......when i'm in a furball, in a zeke, i try to maintain 200-300 yds distance.......it's pretty hard to hit at that distance......
most of my collisions come from me getting ho'd, and not avoiding properly, or in buffs, whent he fighters come in too hard and fast. i've just learned to work my way round it, that's all......like i think most have here. they do what they can to make it some semblance of fair..the only other solution would be to have both aircrft go down..and that would be bad because of the delays, etc.....
anyway......that's my 2 cents....
<>
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Originally posted by SuBWaYCH
Collision model is as perfect as it will get with current technology. Avoid getting rammed and stop complaining.
Regards,
Subway
But Sub..... Dont you know that HTC spent the last um....
Takes shoe off to help counting
Carry the 2
150....... :confused:
looks at left foot
I mean 15+ years developing MMOFS so that he could create a collision model to get back at all the people who were mean to him when he was a teenager....
Like what would he know about how the internet affects on-line flight sims...
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Originally posted by SuBWaYCH
Avoid getting rammed and stop complaining.
Regards,
Subway
yes, this is always possible
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explain to me this..
and i dont care to hear about HT servers, what they see what they dont see... but i'll bet you one years subscription,,,if they have a log...i crash in 90% plaus of my collisions,,, my flying style promotes collisions as it is T n B.
Not sure that can be explained :confused:
What was it you wanted explained? You want the collision model explained to you, as it has been countless times, but you don't want to hear about the servers which are relatively important to the model.
This pretty much sums it up
my flying style promotes collisions
Don't do that, problem solved. Now how is this HTs fault again?
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No...explain to me why i get a collision message and crash and the other plane flys away because the program" didnt see it". you may have to get crayons out on this one,,,because it's been "explained" to me before.. and it still doesnt make sense,,,if it see's me collide. it must see the other plane collide.
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and if it doesnt see the other plane collide...which is a flaw,, disable the feature. easy enuff.
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Someone activate the Bronk signal.
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Cut and Paste from another thread.
Tangle's external from his front end the moment of impact.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/Tanglesview.jpg)
Same basic angle external, tangle's view from my front end moment of impact.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/myview.jpg)
How would you feel taking damage looking at your film and seeing tangles front end view, hmmmmmm?
I know I'd be pretty POed.
Bronk
Edit: This also works nicely for the "none should take damage" people.
Yea I should be able to put the nose of my ac through another.
Original pics & text from Bronk.
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Let's be perfectly honest- people don't want to know how it works, they want to gripe about how it works. How it works has been explained and illustrated so many times that it's become a running joke.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Let's be perfectly honest- people don't want to know how it works, they want to gripe about how it works. How it works has been explained and illustrated so many times that it's become a running joke.
LOL that sounds like a nice verrsion of a Morp post..... LOL
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As the above pic's clearly illustrate, what you see, and what your opponent sees in a fight is slightly diff. (due to internet lag)
You SEE a collision.
They SEE A near miss.
Quit running into them.
If you don't hit them, you won't collide.
Seems pretty simple to me.
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I find that if I fly too close to the other plane, I collide sometimes.
shamus
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Coshy put up a better picture than my crayons could draw.
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Deal with it.
Get used to it.
Whining about it will not change it.
'nuff said.
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- If you don't collide on your FE, then you don't collide.
Heckuva lot better than some doofus killing me out of collision, which never happened on my FE. What happens to the other guy is none of anyone's concern, and the results are only determined by net lag and what happened on his FE. So all you have to do is just not collide with anyone on your own FE, and that's the end of "collision"...
This, is about as perfect it gets.
The only people complaining about collision, is those who've failed to manage his OWN plane to avoid the enemy plane in his OWN FE, and then starts blaming the suckage on someone else, or at least, try to find pathetic solace in knowing the other guy also suffered from your OWN suckage... which, may have never happened on HIS FE in the first place.
Real world or virtual world, when you collide into something, then you're likely dead. So, don't collide.
End of story. Perfect and simple.
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Im suprised we went for a whole week without someone bringing up collisions....
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/lag/lag.htm
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Great explanation Coshy. :D :aok
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Originally posted by Coronado
WHAT AN EFFING P.O.S. !!!!!! nuff said.
03-10-2007
Coronado
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2006
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=200667&highlight=collision
LMAO 9 months and still a numpty.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Originally posted by Skuzzy
MOMMY!!!! MAKE THE BAD MAN STOP!!!!
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It's Hitech Fault,
Cause he's a PUTZ
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Originally posted by Bronk
Great explanation Coshy. :D :aok
Thanks Bronk, I figured you could use a break. :D :aok
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Originally posted by jab116
Deal with it.
Get used to it.
Whining about it will not change it.
'nuff said.
I agree completely....its just another aspect of the game....nothings perfect....u people sound like its the end of the world were dealing with....
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Sooo... bottom line is i should get my guitar pedal out and rig it to lag cpu signal,,,,got it,,,thanks bunches. <
>
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Originally posted by Coronado
Sooo... bottom line is i should get my guitar pedal out and rig it to lag cpu signal,,,,got it,,,thanks bunches. <>
Bottom line is: You didn't understand anything.
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Originally posted by Coronado
Sooo... bottom line is i should get my guitar pedal out and rig it to lag cpu signal,,,,got it,,,thanks bunches. <>
Plain and simple..
Have you read the explanation of the collision model?
If you haven’t, read it.
If you read it, and understand it, then there is no possible way for you to come to any other conclusion than it’s YOUR fault if you have a collision as the collision happens on your machine, not on the server.
If you do get your “guitar pedal out” you will still have an issue with collisions because it’s YOU that is hitting someone else.
Turn sooner and you will not suffer damage from a collision. You will still get a "collision" message from the server if someone hits you, but you will suffer no damage because >>>you didn't hit them<<<<
If this makes zero sense, go play another game because you will only frustrate your self as this game is too complicated for you to comprehend. May I suggest checkers?
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Originally posted by Coronado
WHAT AN EFFING P.O.S. !!!!!! nuff said.
Same story as everthing with you. Whether you get shot down, crash, or get collided with it is always someone elses fault. Your ranting has been old for quite some time now. Maybe you should just play the game and enjoy it for what it is, if you can't do that then you are more then welcome to go find another game that brings you more enjoyment.
Spazz
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ht should just disable collision. he should also neuter those flaming zekes from being able to fly like a fully capable plane. Any frikken plane trailing 100 foot flames is not going to be dogfighting. Put something like a performance penalty onto flaming planes. Thats just mho.
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Originally posted by Yeager
ht should just disable collision.
Yayyyy flying guns blazing into and right through enemy bombers without having to worry about a crash! Would certainly improve the gaming experience! :aok ;)
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Originally posted by Coronado
No...explain to me why i get a collision message and crash and the other plane flys away because the program" didnt see it". you may have to get crayons out on this one,,,because it's been "explained" to me before.. and it still doesnt make sense,,,if it see's me collide. it must see the other plane collide.
Thats the issue in a nutshell, the other plane doesnt collide. Internet "lag" causes the combatabts to see slightly different "realities". Thats why occasionally you'll see a guy apparently firing at "air" or from your view he doesnt have a shot but you get hit. Another good example is when you go to take off from a carrier and you see another guy suspended out over the water or landing next to the CV...thats because on his system the CV is over there.
Your collisions only happen on your computer based on what you "see". If you avoid the collision on your end then it doesnt happen. Same thing for the other guy. Just because you hit him doesnt mean he didnt avoid you...from his view the collision simply didnt happen.
The alternative would be for you to suddenly "collide" with empty space since the other guy was actually 200 out on your view of the action.
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Originally posted by Coronado
Sooo... bottom line is i should get my guitar pedal out and rig it to lag cpu signal,,,,got it,,,thanks bunches. <>
No, bottom line is you should stop running into other planes !
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I understand a common server saw a one sided collision. *shrugs*
And, people,if you'll read opening post "nuff said", and you still feel the need to ridicule,comment, condescend,, you have comprehension issues the same, if not more than I.
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35+ poats on a "nuff said" almost scares me if i had something importatnt to share.
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posts too
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So subway in real life if two planes collide do you really think one plane will not be hurt??? If you do your a complete Idiot.
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Originally posted by Coronado
I understand a common server saw a one sided collision. *shrugs*
The common server has nothing to do with collisions. No detection, no determining any "winner".
There is one collision detection on YOUR computer and one on YOUR ENEMIES each.
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Originally posted by Coronado
I understand a common server saw a one sided collision. *shrugs*
And, people,if you'll read opening post "nuff said", and you still feel the need to ridicule,comment, condescend,, you have comprehension issues the same, if not more than I.
We aren't commenting on the collision model just how your whining about it is played out. Nuff Said!!!!!!
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I do recall HT saying in more than a few threads over the years that the collision model he created is about the best that can be done under the circumstances of netlife, thats always been good enough for me, but I can relate to the frustration people feel about it.
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Originally posted by Coronado
35+ poats on a "nuff said" almost scares me if i had something importatnt to share.
Coronado:
By definition, if YOU post it on a communty BULLETIN BOARD, you're asking for comment. If you don't want comment, don't post it -- keep it to yourself! So, on that issue -- 'nuff said.
You've played long enough you should have learned this, but since you haven't let me give you the practical, simple answer.
When you come too close to the bad guys, you can hit them. Fly so you don't get too close, and you WON"T hit them. Guaranteed.
After all, this is supposed to simulate air combat. Do you think that in real combat pilots would fly as if they couldnt hit the enemy? I can guarantee you that if you think like a real pilot, and try hard not to run into other planes, you will stop colliding. I know, because as soon as I started avoiding collisions, they stopped happening.
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Originally posted by raider73
So subway in real life if two planes collide do you really think one plane will not be hurt??? If you do your a complete Idiot.
Sheesh.
Raider, since reading seems a little taxing for you, take a look at the great big pictures on the last page. They show that the collision only happens to one plane, not the other.
Again...ONE PLANE hits, but the other guy avoids the collison. There's no contradiction, because lag is real, and limited by the speed of light. (That's also the theoretic maximum speed of the electrons that communicate across the internet...in case they haven't gotten that far in whatever grade you attend.)
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Originally posted by Simaril
Sheesh.
Raider, since reading seems a little taxing for you, take a look at the great big pictures on the last page. They show that the collision only happens to one plane, not the other.
Give the kid a break !! He hassles people in the game, and NOW he's mouthing off on the BBS.
He's expanding his horizons ! :D
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Originally posted by raider73
So subway in real life if two planes collide do you really think one plane will not be hurt??? If you do your a complete Idiot.
Can you read?
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Ohh,,it was simply a post out of frustration,,,but i loooove the attention it got...lol
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lol soooo amny poeple tired of hearing about collisions,,,sooooo many people willing to return post about it,,lmao....that's what i call "interaction"
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Originally posted by Coronado
I understand a common server saw a one sided collision. *shrugs*
And, people,if you'll read opening post "nuff said", and you still feel the need to ridicule,comment, condescend,, you have comprehension issues the same, if not more than I.
No. You are not understanding what has been posted.
If your computer sees your plane collide with another plane, you take damage. If the other guy's computer does not see his plane collide with your plane, the other guy's plane does not take damage. If the other guy's computer sees his plane hit your plane, he takes damage. It's all about what your computer sees, not what the server sees.
Again, for a complete explanation, see How Lag Affects Aces High (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/lag/lag.htm) from the Aces High Trainers' Website (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com).
Regards,
Hammer
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Originally posted by Coronado
I understand a common server saw a one sided collision. *shrugs*
Each player is playing the game 100% on their own computer. You aren't playing on a server. The common server only passes information through from one players computer to another players computer. It passes information through such as positional, directional and speed data among other things where that information is read and rendered by your machine.
You machine says to the server; I am in a Spit at coordinate x going NE at 10,000 feet at 250 mph climbing at a rate of 100'/min. This info is passed on to others nearby so that it can be drawn on their computers, but, Internet lag means that, by the time they get and render the information, you've already flown another 50-100 feet (not real numbers but to give you the idea), and are no longer where you were when the data was transmitted. They are mearly seeing your shadow or trailer.
So, when someone shoots at you, they are actually shooting at the last image they have of your position. If they hit, their computer sends the server a message which is passed along, and when you recieve the message you take the hit.
It's much the same during collisions. You and you're opponent are chasing each others shadows or trailers. Each of you have moved beyond what the other sees due to Internet lag. If one of you runs into the image of the other drawn on your screen, it sends a message to the server that you have collided and that message is passed along to the other player. If you collide, you take immediate damage. If you both collide with the opponent image on your screen, both will send a collision message to the server to be passed along and you will both take damage based on what was drawn on each of your comuters (which may be and probably are different due to Internet lag) at the time you collided.
The common server never "saw" anything. It simply relayed what you saw.
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Originally posted by Coronado
Ohh,,it was simply a post out of frustration,,,but i loooove the attention it got...lol
Ahh so you understand how it works and you just wanted to troll ?
For some reason I don't buy it.
Some people are just incapable of understanding the collision model (even when you draw them a picture).
Ohh and coronado, HTC's servers have NOTHING to do with collision detection.
Why don't you just try not flying into other AC and see how that works.:aok
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What people also don't factor in when they say "he collided with me but I got shot down' is that the bad guys tend to shoot at you!
Especially when they get close.
So yes, you will take damage from his bullets, right up to the point he collides with the image of your plane on his screen.
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(http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg)
this is geting as bad a Killshooter or CT.
:noid :noid
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
(http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg)
this is geting as bad a Killshooter or CT.
:noid :noid
What, Coronado's inability to comprehend, or the collision whine?
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you seem to have overlooked the obvious here,............ Plainly stated in klinks handbook of horrors......get a bigger cannon. problem solved.
carry on.............next.......... ..:cool:
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Originally posted by RedTop
It's confusing to say the least....And since we have had some GREAT fights and generally get along well...let me ask ya this...
If 2 planes collide in real life , and lets just say minimal speed to stay in flight , wouldn't more than likely BOTH planes sustain significant damge to prolly kill both guys or at least cause both planes to not be flyable?
Just wondering your thougts as I really don't like..nor totally understand the collsion modle.
Me niether RedTop , but if it didn't exist the kamikaze would .
For the few times that it happens that it isn't as much my fault
as the other guys its better than being able to take
out 5 guys on the runway after ammo's gone .
Of course some guys would do that just to animate 200 .
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It is goofy. It all makes sense from a technical point fo view. If I was the God of HTC I would consider implementing a change to discourage collisions. If either computer detects a collision then both aircraft are destroyed. Realism suffers a bit but then whats realistic about a one way collision? I personally get a bit miffed when I am flying something like a P47 and get rammed (or ram) a zero and go down while the tissue paper zeke flies away unharmed.
But like others have said. It is what it is and I choose to pay my $15/month knowing it is that way so the responisbility is mine.
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Originally posted by 2fly
It is goofy. It all makes sense from a technical point fo view. If I was the God of HTC I would consider implementing a change to discourage collisions. If either computer detects a collision then both aircraft are destroyed. Realism suffers a bit but then whats realistic about a one way collision? I personally get a bit miffed when I am flying something like a P47 and get rammed (or ram) a zero and go down while the tissue paper zeke flies away unharmed.
But like others have said. It is what it is and I choose to pay my $15/month knowing it is that way so the responisbility is mine.
So... You're suggesting that in an intense furball, you expertly evade an oncoming HO newb with a deft flick of your stick, and suddenly end up in the tower because said newb doesn’t have the dodging skill you have perfected?
You would be on the board complaining that “I missed him and died!!!!!!”
Will never happen
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I know it will never happen, but here is my logic.
The technology is (reportably) incaple of resolving the issue realisticaly. Therefore all that is left is discouraging the risky flying. If you know that raming the other guy will always result in your death as well then perhaps some will be discouraged from pushing it. Would there be other problems, of course. Nothing will ever make everyone happy.
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If you ram a guy on your computer, it WILL result in damage on your plane. Sounds like they have the incentive in there now. The only reason the other guy would get damage is if he collided with your plane on HIS computer.
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2fly, that's what the current system does. If the system were to detect a collision on one end, and destroy both planes, the kamikaze gets a reward, and the guy who was flying more intelligently gets punished. That is a horrible idea.
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all in favour of a new forum being opened say aye.
Collision Model Forum - general and repetetive discusion on the collision model of AH2 and why we are sick of talking about it.
aye
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Originally posted by RedTop
It's confusing to say the least....And since we have had some GREAT fights and generally get along well...let me ask ya this...
If 2 planes collide in real life , and lets just say minimal speed to stay in flight , wouldn't more than likely BOTH planes sustain significant damge to prolly kill both guys or at least cause both planes to not be flyable?
Just wondering your thougts as I really don't like..nor totally understand the collsion modle.
nah, most likely you will lose a flap and I will get a pilot wound :rofl :rofl :noid
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
2fly, that's what the current system does. If the system were to detect a collision on one end, and destroy both planes, the kamikaze gets a reward, and the guy who was flying more intelligently gets punished. That is a horrible idea.
Thats not what the system does now. If it only detects one collision it only damages one plane. The Kamikaze will always be rewarded if that is his aim. I suppose my beef is less with whether it detects a collision at all but in how it assigns damage.
I dont like how small light planes such as Zero's collide with P47s or Typhoons, or 190s or whatever. Know the wings off off of them and fly away without any damage of their own. I have even seen a spitfire collide with a B-17 once and knock a wing off it and take no damage. Absurd. So let me amend my statement slightly. When a collision is detected on BOTH ends then destroy Both aircraft.
On a related issue the one that bothers me more than collisions really is Lag bullets. Someone trys to HO you and you avoid it. You fly past them, look back and see them speeding away and THEN the bullets hit you.
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Originally posted by 2fly
Thats not what the system does now. If it only detects one collision it only damages one plane. The Kamikaze will always be rewarded if that is his aim. I suppose my beef is less with whether it detects a collision at all but in how it assigns damage.
I dont like how small light planes such as Zero's collide with P47s or Typhoons, or 190s or whatever. Know the wings off off of them and fly away without any damage of their own. I have even seen a spitfire collide with a B-17 once and knock a wing off it and take no damage. Absurd. So let me amend my statement slightly. When a collision is detected on BOTH ends then destroy Both aircraft.
On a related issue the one that bothers me more than collisions really is Lag bullets. Someone trys to HO you and you avoid it. You fly past them, look back and see them speeding away and THEN the bullets hit you.
If I understand what you are asking for correctly, you are asking for collisions to work exactly as you are describing "lag bullets". You'd avoid the collision, look back, see the other guy explode and you'd explode too - even if you missed him by 50 meters.
Is that really what you want? No thanks....
And to your original point, the Kamikaze is ONLY rewarded if you don't avoid him on your own system. If you do so, then he only manages to kill himself. And when both players system detect a collision, then both planes suffer damage or destruction - that's how it is NOW.
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Originally posted by 2fly
Thats not what the system does now. If it only detects one collision it only damages one plane. The Kamikaze will always be rewarded if that is his aim. I suppose my beef is less with whether it detects a collision at all but in how it assigns damage.
I dont like how small light planes such as Zero's collide with P47s or Typhoons, or 190s or whatever. Know the wings off off of them and fly away without any damage of their own. I have even seen a spitfire collide with a B-17 once and knock a wing off it and take no damage. Absurd. So let me amend my statement slightly. When a collision is detected on BOTH ends then destroy Both aircraft.
On a related issue the one that bothers me more than collisions really is Lag bullets. Someone trys to HO you and you avoid it. You fly past them, look back and see them speeding away and THEN the bullets hit you.
On the contrary, that's exactly what it does now. It damages the plane whose FE sees a collision.
This isn't one big shared reality like, well, reality. Due to the limitations of the internet, and computer and communications hardware, we have hundreds of separate realities, that share the same events, with those events occuring some milliseconds apart, depending on who is viewing it.
BTW, when both players' front ends see a collision, both take damage. What you ask for, is what we have.
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Ok.
You convinced me.
But I still maintain that the damage assigned is bogus. I would rather both go down automatically then continue to see Zekes slam jugs out of the sky and fly away with nothing worse than an oil leak or a missing flap.
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2fly,
So you spend 10-15 minutes getting to the enemy base and a guy who spent 30 seconds in his Bf109K-4 rams you in a manner you can't dodge sends you back to the tower? You'd like that?
It would be the number one way to stop base attacks. Kill your 15 minute time investment with a 30 second time investment.
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:rolleyes: I don't know why I bother trying to explain anything.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
:rolleyes: I don't know why I bother trying to explain anything.
hehe How would you feel after doing the film da thing. Posting both the films and pics, with good explanations mind you. Yet the numpties still don't get it.:D :aok
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I'd ask HTC to ban my IP. :lol
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Originally posted by Karnak
2fly,
So you spend 10-15 minutes getting to the enemy base and a guy who spent 30 seconds in his Bf109K-4 rams you in a manner you can't dodge sends you back to the tower? You'd like that?
It would be the number one way to stop base attacks. Kill your 15 minute time investment with a 30 second time investment.
They can do that anway as it is now easily enough really.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'd ask HTC to ban my IP. :lol
LMAO
Ohh and 2fly thanks for the laugh. I really needed it.
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Originally posted by 2fly
They can do that anway as it is now easily enough really.
No they cannot.
That you think they can shows that you have no clue how the collision system works.
In the years I played AH, not once did it ever happen to me.
If your suggestion was adopted you would see Spit XVIs, VIIIs, Bf109G-14s and K-4s used to do just that on a constant basis.
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Originally posted by 2fly
They can do that anway as it is now easily enough really.
2fly,
For this to be true, one would have to cause his plane to fly into the other guy's plane AS THE OTHER GUY SEES IT. This means you would have to guess where the other guy's plane is in order to cause a collision on his end.
If I up a plane and fly directly into and enemy, I will definitely take damage (because my PC saw my plane intersect the other guy's plane).
There is a good chance that on the other guy's PC my plane missed his completely. Therefore, deliberately flying into someone else guarantee's only one thing: that YOU will take damage.
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ya, kinda ticks me off when u get that noob that thinks its funny to try and ram planes out of the sky.....
-BigBOBCH
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Originally posted by raider73
So subway in real life if two planes collide do you really think one plane will not be hurt??? If you do your a complete Idiot.
When did we start talking about Real Life?
I was saying the Collision model in game is as perfect as it will get, with current technology.
Maybe you should READ the entire post before making a comment.
Your an Idiot,
Subway
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Hmmm
Anyone got a can of Bat Anti-Collision Post Spray.....
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Originally posted by mussie
Hmmm
Anyone got a can of Bat Anti-Collision Post Spray.....
nawwww Robin "huffed" the last can!:O
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
nawwww Robin "huffed" the last can!:O
Yeah but only cause he was trying to get the taste of Bat Poll out of his mouth
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Squeakway, it's "you're an idiot", not "your an idiot".
Mussie, my step-sister lives in Woody Point, QLD. How long a drive would that be?
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Originally posted by Spazzter
We aren't commenting on the collision model just how your whining about it is played out. Nuff Said!!!!!!
Who the hell are you?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Squeakway, it's "you're an idiot", not "your an idiot".
Mussie, my step-sister lives in Woody Point, QLD. How long a drive would that be?
If shes related to you not long enough......
J/K :p
If its the place i am thinking of Woody Point is about 100Km (60 miles or so) from my house and about 40K or so from where I work....