Aces High Bulletin Board

Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DEAR98 on December 09, 2007, 10:05:16 AM

Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: DEAR98 on December 09, 2007, 10:05:16 AM
ok i got it down to FW190 P-51s P-40
and if you can please help to get me better at like some tips
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: waystin2 on December 09, 2007, 10:41:30 AM
Here are a few suggestions on planes for new pilots from the netaces.org site:

Spitfire Mk VIII<-------------Great First Ride!

N1K2-J

P-51D Mustang


In the end, fly what makes you happy, but be prepared to train up and study on your decided ride.  


Oink
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: DEAR98 on December 09, 2007, 10:51:01 AM
ok that good
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: Rogue9Volt on December 09, 2007, 11:25:42 AM
FW190 d9, great for BnZ.  ;)
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: RTR on December 09, 2007, 11:25:58 AM
Dear98 any of the Spitfires are good first rides. Except the SpitIVX, it is a monster but requires a good hand to get the most out of it.

I wouldn't recommend the N1K2 for the simple reason that it has a pretty potent gun package and seems to breed the need to HO.

In my experience with helping people here, the SpitV and IX provide great handling characteristics, are fairly forgiving and will get you a few kills. They allow you to explore your inner "killer" and give you a bit of time to get a grip on some basic ACM.

Just my humble opinion mind you.

cheers,
RTR
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: Spikes on December 09, 2007, 11:38:28 AM
P-40 can outturn spits if you know how to fly it.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: Latrobe on December 09, 2007, 03:10:23 PM
190's: I've learned that if you get them slow, you better know what you're doing. Keep it fast, but please don't turn it into a BnZer for I will hunt you down :D . 190, IMO, is an E fighter.

P-51: Defenitly an E fighter, but can turn fight if needed (with a notch of flaps if needed too do so). P-51 love speed and, sometimes, even turn with a spitfire when at high speeds. If you see a "Braunco Mustang" on, ask them for advice on the P-51.

P-40: Truely an excellent plane. It's not the fastest, not the best turner, can't outrun much, not the best at getting it's speed up, but it's only plane that I canthink of that balances everything so nicley. Good firepower, good top speed, good turner (both high and low speeds), just a great dogfighter. It's also the one out of the three that requires the most practice in, mainly because everyone goes after the P-40 first.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: WMLute on December 09, 2007, 04:27:58 PM
I think a good question to ask would be: "how do you intend to fight?"

Fighting style somewhat dictates the plane.  Do you tend to be low on the deck turning and buring knife fighting?  Well then I would say a P51 would be a bad choice.

Are you generally above everybody else and diving down shooting at them and climbing back up?  I would say a P40 would be a bad choice.

In the middle there somewhere?  

Not sure?  

Next time you fly AH pay attention to HOW you tend to fight, and they come back here and tell us.  Some planes are better for certain fighting styles than others.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: angelsandair on December 09, 2007, 07:18:09 PM
spitVIII is a really great plane for starters, La-7 good for starters but you need to know what you are doing when you are flying 1 of those
I wouldnt reccomend a n1k2-j mainly because they are really horrible in dives and its really hard to pull out of 1, p-38j is also a good starting fighter if you know how to use it too
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: splitatom on December 09, 2007, 09:32:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by waystin2
Spitfire Mk VIII<-------------Great First Ride!

that is the best spitfire in the game i think it is also one of the best turners and fastest spit it is the only spit i use from land bases i sometinmes use the carier one and i dont usualy use spits that often exept this weekend:aok
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: splitatom on December 09, 2007, 09:36:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Latrobe
P-40: Truely an excellent plane. It's not the fastest, not the best turner, can't outrun much, not the best at getting it's speed up, but it's only plane that I canthink of that balances everything so nicley. Good firepower, good top speed, good turner (both high and low speeds), just a great dogfighter. It's also the one out of the three that requires the most practice in, mainly because everyone goes after the P-40 first.

the reson people go after you is becuase you are considered an easy kill i shot down 5 once all of them saw me and they all died :lol
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: WMLute on December 09, 2007, 09:58:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by angelsandair
spitVIII is a really great plane for starters, La-7 good for starters but you need to know what you are doing when you are flying 1 of those
I wouldnt reccomend a n1k2-j mainly because they are really horrible in dives and its really hard to pull out of 1, p-38j is also a good starting fighter if you know how to use it too


Niki's?  

Horrible in DIVES?

Huh?

They dont' compress untill ya' hit the high 400's if not 500 kias.

Niki's are fantastic in the dive.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: dkff49 on December 09, 2007, 10:34:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute
Niki's?  

Horrible in DIVES?

Huh?

They dont' compress untill ya' hit the high 400's if not 500 kias.

Niki's are fantastic in the dive.



yes they do not compress quickly but are very tough to pull out of dive when your speed gets over 350. very important to remember to chop throttle when entering a dive in NIK or find yourself augering

but i find the NIK to be a great plane to learn to fight in because i love the turn fighting and challenge of suckering in the BnZ figthers into my fight

IMHO
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: kotrenin on December 09, 2007, 10:36:34 PM
I've been flying the Spit VIII and Spit IX for the last 3 months or so.   I have found them both to be great all around fighters.  Not the greatest in any 1 skill but you can reasonably expect these planes to meet your needs in a pinch.  They are light and want to climb,  I feel like I am flying a kite when I up these planes.  I can float them to their stall limit in the vertical, while other planes want to stall out and have to dive away quickly before they lose lift, I can "float" at the top and wait for them.  I have routinely had these planes in turn fights under 120 IAS with flaps out and managed to draw the fight UP in altitude causing my prey to lose valuable "E" compared to me.  I can B and Z in these planes, though I have to throttle back some depending how deep my dive needs to be.  They have nice speed although they are no where near the fastest.

Any plane you choose must be learned.  You will have to spend a lot of time practicing in your plane to get a feel for what it can do.  You must also decide what style of fighting you like.  This is another reason to fly the Spit,  Because it can do just about everything good, you can use it to decide what type of fighter you are and then point yourself towards a plane that is geared more for that style of fighting.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: humble on December 09, 2007, 11:40:55 PM
Spending some time in the TA is more important then the specific plane you choose. A little training early goes a long long way. Personally I'd stay away from hurricanes, spitties, zekes and nikki's as well as the "speed" planes. Yes you might land a few more kills but in the long run you'll be better served by learning the use of flap, rudder and throttle early on. The F6F, 109F4, C-205 & Ki-61 are all great rides to cut your teeth on. They require a bit of knowledge so you need a bit of time in the TA with them...
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: Rich46yo on December 10, 2007, 05:54:23 AM
1, B-26s, "I blew up another CV last night".

2, B-17s,"I blew up another strat last night"

3, KI-67s, "I blew up 2 bases worth of ords last night, took the heat off my team at a TT, and then sent a 262 running home with its pants on fire".

                      Why would anyone want to fly anything else.?:D
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: AirFlyer on December 10, 2007, 08:01:07 AM
The Zero isen't to bad. Most people will tell you to stay away from it but it does make a great plane sharpen up on your SA considering most people see you as an easy kill due to the idea your a flying match. I would suggest the A6M5b model but if you really want a challenge you can try the A6M2 model.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: humble on December 10, 2007, 08:26:36 AM
The problems with the hurricane, zero etc is that they dont encourage proper ACM development. You dont learn the true values of throttle and rudder control or use of the verticals. Nikki or a Ki-84 would be better choices then either the spitty or the zeke. IMO Ki-61 one of the best planes to learn on. Good views, good handling, good zoom and nice all around handling with a good gun setup
Title: Re: i need help finding a plane
Post by: Oldman731 on December 10, 2007, 10:18:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DEAR98
ok i got it down to FW190 P-51s P-40
and if you can please help to get me better at like some tips

As these posts show, there are lots of good "first" planes.  You might be better able to assess them based on what NOT to fly at first:

- Don't fly the early or mid war planes in the late war arenas.  While these earlier eras have some of the very most enjoyable rides, those rides require a certain amount of experience to handle against clearly superior aircraft.  You should be spending your early months learning how to keep from stalling, how to utilize the throttle, and mastering some air combat maneuvers.  So leave your last choice, the P-40E, for another day.  It's a lovable plane, but it's for later.

- Don't fly the known pigs.  Despite the protests of their dedicated admirers, all (that is to say, "all") of the Focke Wulfs fall into this category.  I would put the Typhoon in this class, too.  So leave your first choice for later.  Much, much later.  If ever.

- Don't fly the hard-to-master-but-great-fighter planes.  Learn the basics first, then graduate to these guys:  P-38s.  Corsairs.  Me-109s.  P-47s.  (I actually put the Ki-61 in this class, because I think it's harder to learn to fly well than some of the other posters think.)

- Don't fly the planes that teach bad habits.  Because their guns are so spectacularly good, the Hurricane IIC and Nik encourage you to take easy shots, rather than concentrate on good flying.  The Russian La-7, although quite maneuverable, combines good cannon, a very high speed and truly dreadful cockpit visibility.  These three factors encourage new pilots to use it as a boom-and-zoom ride.  You may end up flying this sort of style, but you want to do it by conscious choice after you can fly other styles.


So what's left?  Lots.

- For the first few months you fly, you should properly expect to get shot down on nearly every flight (some of us never leave this phase).  If you would like to get a few kills during this period, the Spitfires are absolutely your best choice.  Easy to fly, great guns, very maneuverable, they only lack high top-end speeds.  This makes you stick around for the fight, thereby actually teaching you how to fight.  The Spits are the classic new pilot planes (some pilots never leave this phase).  

- If you are a hard core type who does not get depressed by constantly losing, then pick one of the good, but somewhat more challenging planes.  The P-51s fall into this category, as do the Yak 9-U, Ki-84 and Hellcat.  (Maybe the C.205, although I have some doubts.)

Whichever you choose, force yourself to fly it for a few days.  Unless you're in love at that stage, switch to one of the others.  Sooner or later you'll find one that fits your desired qualities, and you can stick with it and focus on the air combat part of this game.

- oldman
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: Simaril on December 10, 2007, 10:44:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by humble
Spending some time in the TA is more important then the specific plane you choose. A little training early goes a long long way. ..


Agree here 100%.

AH is NOT a game you can figure out on your own. Look at it this way: Planes have been flown in combat for almost 100 years, and the trial and error stage didnt last long. So there are rules of thumb and tactics that have been tested in real life...if you know what the experts have found works, you can save yourself...umm...a hundred years of trial and error?

My biggest regret about my first year in the game is that I didn't get help from trainers right off the bat. Even now, playing for about 4 years, I still make a point of getting tips, and sending short films for better pilots to point out mistakes.


Recently someone posted a pretty accurrate comparison between AH and golf. They made a long list of similarities, but there's one other -- you shouldnt feel bad about asking the Pro for tips!
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: AirFlyer on December 10, 2007, 03:11:28 PM
This is just me... and it probably doesn't go for many others. But I've always found internet sources to be my best resource for learning. Between Net Aces, Soda's Aircraft Evaluation, or even the training page on  Hitechs site have helped me a long way. Thats not to say I haven't learned a few good tricks in the TA,(where I learned most of my merge tactics for my Zero) but I'm not much of a visual learner. I seem to work better by reading up on things, re-reading it, then putting to the life-fire test at the end after I've thought it out in my head. Pretty much to summarize this, the websites dedicated to Aces High Combat are just as resourceful as the TA. :aok
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: humble on December 10, 2007, 03:23:09 PM
No question that static sources are essential. But applied knowledge comes thru instruction and interaction. The only way to practice ACM is to do ACM.

ACM isnt really plane dependent, its situation dependent. While certain planes have advantages in some aspects very little is absolute. The greater the specific advantage the less true gain the pilot makes in exploiting situational advantage. So a player who starts in a plane with a clear exploitable advantage actually will struggle more in a "lesser" ride later vs a player who starts in a more "average" ride.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: VonKost on December 10, 2007, 03:52:39 PM
I probably did it wrong, but i just picked my favorite and fly almost nothing else while reading what I can and always being willing to learn from others. I'm not to good yet, but I've finally worked over 1.00 K/D ratio and things keep getting a little better.
Title: Re: Re: i need help finding a plane
Post by: Mus51 on December 10, 2007, 05:15:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
As these posts show, there are lots of good "first" planes.  You might be better able to assess them based on what NOT to fly at first:

- Don't fly the early or mid war planes in the late war arenas.  While these earlier eras have some of the very most enjoyable rides, those rides require a certain amount of experience to handle against clearly superior aircraft.  You should be spending your early months learning how to keep from stalling, how to utilize the throttle, and mastering some air combat maneuvers.  So leave your last choice, the P-40E, for another day.  It's a lovable plane, but it's for later.

- Don't fly the known pigs.  Despite the protests of their dedicated admirers, all (that is to say, "all") of the Focke Wulfs fall into this category.  I would put the Typhoon in this class, too.  So leave your first choice for later.  Much, much later.  If ever.

- Don't fly the hard-to-master-but-great-fighter planes.  Learn the basics first, then graduate to these guys:  P-38s.  Corsairs.  Me-109s.  P-47s.  (I actually put the Ki-61 in this class, because I think it's harder to learn to fly well than some of the other posters think.)

- Don't fly the planes that teach bad habits.  Because their guns are so spectacularly good, the Hurricane IIC and Nik encourage you to take easy shots, rather than concentrate on good flying.  The Russian La-7, although quite maneuverable, combines good cannon, a very high speed and truly dreadful cockpit visibility.  These three factors encourage new pilots to use it as a boom-and-zoom ride.  You may end up flying this sort of style, but you want to do it by conscious choice after you can fly other styles.


So what's left?  Lots.

- For the first few months you fly, you should properly expect to get shot down on nearly every flight (some of us never leave this phase).  If you would like to get a few kills during this period, the Spitfires are absolutely your best choice.  Easy to fly, great guns, very maneuverable, they only lack high top-end speeds.  This makes you stick around for the fight, thereby actually teaching you how to fight.  The Spits are the classic new pilot planes (some pilots never leave this phase).  

- If you are a hard core type who does not get depressed by constantly losing, then pick one of the good, but somewhat more challenging planes.  The P-51s fall into this category, as do the Yak 9-U, Ki-84 and Hellcat.  (Maybe the C.205, although I have some doubts.)

Whichever you choose, force yourself to fly it for a few days.  Unless you're in love at that stage, switch to one of the others.  Sooner or later you'll find one that fits your desired qualities, and you can stick with it and focus on the air combat part of this game.

- oldman


I totally agree except for the P51, IMO the P38 is allot easyer to fly because it can turn allot better then the P51 and has a better gun package.
I should put the 51 in the 38,47, 109 list.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: Motherland on December 10, 2007, 05:17:40 PM
Der Messershmitt Bf. 109 G-2.

Turns great, fast, climbs well, pretty versatile. The standard gun package is fairly weak, but if you're going after bombers or other tough targets the gondolas make it a pretty deadly aircraft. In any other case, DO NOT take the gondolas, as they kill performance. And watch airspeed- it compresses at around... 400MPH? I fly mainly based on feel, not on gauges, but I think its around 400. The elevators are heavy by that time at the very least.
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: projoe on December 10, 2007, 05:38:27 PM
When I came over from WB...CO DH367th  said  Pro  get in a spit or nikki and u can't go wrong.  Think these two birds would be best to start out with...they are both good stable platforms to learn just the basics....think at this stage lookin for the best turner or best BnZer is alittle early.  You need to learn the feel of the planes in the AH atmosphere first.  Totally different then any other flight sim.
My $.02
Title: i need help finding a plane
Post by: humble on December 10, 2007, 05:53:11 PM
I'm not sure that you have any set right answer here. But here is my fundemental question as a trainer (going back). What am I teaching? Most of the arguements I see in favor of certain planes center on making some aspect of the game easier. To me this is somewhat short sighted. It takes a certain amount of practice to learn to fly "reasonably" well, but once you can do that then other things take on greater importance IMO.

As a newer player the question "what am I learning?" should be at the for front. Plane dependent pilots develop plane dependent tendencies vs situational flyers IMO. This is a clip from yesterday that high lights the issues to a degree.

The pilot in question is primarily a spit driver. I'm not sure how long he's been flying but he's reasonably proficient and I've had some fun fights with him. This clip rolled after the "merge" I didnt have the E to rope him and had to bail off the perch leaving him 600-800 out when I hit record.

In then end we trade some lead and both auger at the end. I'm still working my way thru the A-20 (amazingly adaptive ride) and on one hand you see me stuggling with E, angles and orientation while he is trying to fly aggresively but much more in a "poiny my nose at you and pull" style typical of a learning "spit driver".

We're "seeing" to totally different fights....

 A-20 vs spit9 (http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/A-20/a20spit9.ahf)
Title: Re: Re: i need help finding a plane
Post by: splitatom on December 10, 2007, 06:45:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
- If you are a hard core type who does not get depressed by constantly losing, then pick one of the good, but somewhat more challenging planes.  The P-51s fall into this category, as do the Yak 9-U, Ki-84 and Hellcat.  (Maybe the C.205, although I have some doubts.)

are you ciding the yak ki-84 and hellcat those are some of the best planes in the game but for beginers the yak might be a problem because it only has 120 rounds of the dedly shevak 20mm (you must get into tail chases because you canot do snap shots)