Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: crockett on December 09, 2007, 02:59:20 PM
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This is just a thought here, but I'd love to suggest forcing "full" visibility for GV's in regards to the ground detail. I'm trying not to post this as a whine, but it's getting to the point GVing isn't even fun anymore.
It wasn't so bad before IMO as it seemed most players didn't do it. Now days every tom, dick and hairy lowers their detail so they can see through the trees and everything else.
IMO full ground detail should be "forced" by the game when in you are in a GV. It shouldn't even be an option to lower it. Getting shot from 5k away when there are hedgerows trees and everything under the sun between you and the other guy is getting pretty dam old.
It's so bad now, that if you don't do it too, you get killed by the guys doing it. So why can't we just force the players to play honest and just Force full detail settings while in GV's?
Just a thought..
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could someone provide factual information and screenshots showing the differences?
for instance detail slider all the way left for max detail ( including zoomed in and non zoomed views ) vs slider all the way right including zoomed/non zoomed views
as well as break it down and show the different types of views
SHIFT - F1
SHIFT - F2
SHIFT - F3
SHIFT - F4
with the before mentioned slider settings and zoom settings for each view type......
until someone shows that there is an advantage by doing as you have suggested, then all you will receive is remarks that you are quote: "whining"
edit: maybe if there is a problem or a work around to SEE people/GV's maybe some COAD that locks you in to SHIFT-F4 view mode when you are launching a GV, just like you can use F3 in bombers but not in Fighter or Attack mode......
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I never knew how they did it.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
could someone provide factual information and screenshots showing the differences?
for instance detail slider all the way left for max detail ( including zoomed in and non zoomed views ) vs slider all the way right including zoomed/non zoomed views
as well as break it down and show the different types of views
SHIFT - F1
SHIFT - F2
SHIFT - F3
SHIFT - F4
with the before mentioned slider settings and zoom settings for each view type......
until someone shows that there is an advantage by doing as you have suggested, then all you will receive is remarks that you are quote: "whining"
edit: maybe if there is a problem or a work around to SEE people/GV's maybe some COAD that locks you in to SHIFT-F4 view mode when you are launching a GV, just like you can use F3 in bombers but not in Fighter or Attack mode......
in lower detail the objects are still THERE.. they are just not rendered..
so at 3k away on high detail you may not see an enemy GV because he is hiding behind a tree, but at low detail the tree is not shown and it looks like he is just sitting there.. BUT if you fire on him, the invisible tree will still block your shot the same as the visible tree would..
but there really is no denying a player using the low detail setting has an advantage over the person using high detail.. just for the fact that its easier to spot them.
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Tequilachaser,
Go try it yourself, it makes a huge difference.
You set the first slider (object detail) all the way to the right (faster), then set the second slider (ground detail range) all the way to the left (3mi).
Presto! Now you can see enemy GVs from a long distance without those pesky trees and hedges in the way! It will even gets rid of small hills too.
If you shoot at the nme your rounds will still explode if they hit a tree or other obstacle, but in some cases you can lob shots over intervening objects (such as hedges or low hills) and hit a target you normally would not see.
Setting your detail this way also makes it very easy to pick out gvs from absurd range since they are now a moving dot on a barren green landscape.
Normally I wouldn't post this stuff since people can use it to game the game, but I get the feeling that many people are doing this already so posting this won't do any more harm.
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No one knows, they just assume if they're doing it, the other guy must be as well. I think tying the ranges at which objects are rendered to the ranges at which vehicles are rendered is probably a better fix.
Or, everyone could just lower their settings, and quit yelling about how the GV game in aces high is lacking. No one seems to care that their tanks don't behave like tanks, but mess with spawn camping, and all hell breaks loose. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think tying the ranges at which objects are rendered to the ranges at which vehicles are rendered is probably a better fix.
Bingo. This should only apply to seeing enemy GVs though and not planes.
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I do not need to try it, it does not affect me either way, for I don't mess with GV's much at all and when I do, it does not get my goat if a spawn camper is using settings to "game the game".......... they play their way, I play mine.......( read as: I get my fun/enjoyment by playing the game with best maximum detail my computer can provide me )
I only suggest you show pictures/screenshots/film and show it from each view setting instead of just posting complaints, screenshots showing both and a descriptive writeup is worth alot more than just posting a complaint........
and probably should post it in the AH2 Bug Reports forum as well..
even email the facts/information to support at HTC.......
I will hold my tongue for any comments in this thread regarding how it is done, and how if you shoot you still hit invisible trees or ledges/hills........ somethings are self revealing
;)
just explaining best way to get something fixed or adjusted if it is broken or bugged.......
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
No one knows, they just assume if they're doing it, the other guy must be as well. I think tying the ranges at which objects are rendered to the ranges at which vehicles are rendered is probably a better fix.
Or, everyone could just lower their settings, and quit yelling about how the GV game in aces high is lacking. No one seems to care that their tanks don't behave like tanks, but mess with spawn camping, and all hell breaks loose. :rolleyes:
It's pretty easy to tell when someone is doing it. If they are shooting at you on flat terrain 2 to 3k away with trees barns and hedges in the way. Well chances are they are doing it.
I guess one could assume they are just really good and have magic powers to tell exactly where to shoot. Even though they can't see you if they had their detail all the way up. :rolleyes:
If we should all have to stoop to the level of gaming the game.. why not just say to hell with it.. delete all the trees.. hills.. and just play on a big flat ground sitting at your spawn lobbing shells at each other from 10k away.
The thing I hate about it, is you pretty much have to stoop down to their level otherwise they will just pick you off. I always avoided doing it, but there are so many people doing it now if you don't do it too, you have no chance at staying alive and killing them.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
I will hold my tongue for any comments in this thread regarding how it is done, and how if you shoot you still hit invisible trees or ledges/hills........ somethings are self revealing
Sure you still hit the objects, however they can still hit you aswell. They can just keep inching in their shots until they find a open spot.
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If you want to see the difference, this is just a quick set of pics I made. Not the best of example, but is good enough to see how gamey it is.
Pic 1 set at low detail..
(http://www.wargamerx.com/temp/1.jpg)
Pic 2 at full detail..
(http://www.wargamerx.com/temp/2.jpg)
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i do see a difference there......
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Strafing, are you saying you do this, or don't do this?
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wow hes getting 60 fps the most i get is around 40......
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Strafing, are you saying you do this, or don't do this?
At this point I just play it how I see it. I like to play legit and get my kills by being better than the other guy. However if they start lobbing shells at me from a place I know they can't see me. Well I'll do it right back.
I don't want it done is what I'm saying, I never did it until recently because it seems like every fool and his brother does it now. So you pretty much have to do it if they are, otherwise you get killed from 3k away and they sit back and enjoy the easy kills. It seemed like before it wasn't as wide spreed of a problem as it is now. I guess it's just another part of the on going dumbing down of AH.
Personally, I like to hunt down other GV's, flank them or be a sneaky SOB any chance I can. So when the other player has the ability built into the game to tune down his graphics and see you anywhere.. Well it kills the fun factor which is the purpose of this post.
I wouldn't mind if they could turn down detail if it also made the GV's not visible as was suggested. I just want the gamey BS to stop.
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I like to play legit and get my kills by being better than the other guy. However if they start lobbing shells at me from a place I know they can't see me. Well I'll do it right back.
:rolleyes:
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Too many people think that if they can't see someone, they can't be seen. That's not always the case.
However, forcing a game setting on people who's systems may not be able to handle it penalizes them for no other reason than you don't particularly like something some one else does.
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Originally posted by ROC
Too many people think that if they can't see someone, they can't be seen. That's not always the case.
However, forcing a game setting on people who's systems may not be able to handle it penalizes them for no other reason than you don't particularly like something some one else does.
The ones with better PCs shouldn't be penalized either by having it to where you can get rid of all objects. You would have to have one seriously crappy PC to not be able to play the GV game in AH with objects rendered. And the percentage of people playing this game with that crappy a PC shouldn't be a factor for how the game is designed. Those people just need to upgrade or go play on-line poker.
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Originally posted by ROC
Too many people think that if they can't see someone, they can't be seen. That's not always the case.
However, forcing a game setting on people who's systems may not be able to handle it penalizes them for no other reason than you don't particularly like something some one else does.
Well as it was suggested above, if they can turn down quality settings, then it should also affect their ability to see the GV's at a distance. If they can't see the trees or the barn the GV is next too, well then it's not unreasonable to say they shouldn't see the GV either. Don't yea think that's more than fair?
Another thing.. before I built my new system. I ran this game on a Radeon 9800 pro video card, in a PC that I built in 2003. I used to get on average of 20 -30 FPS but was often much less at times. Reguardless I still didn't have any issues running full detail in GV's. This was even after the terrain upgrades and when people used to puff smoke like crazy to hide behind.
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Originally posted by ROC
Too many people think that if they can't see someone, they can't be seen. That's not always the case.
However, forcing a game setting on people who's systems may not be able to handle it penalizes them for no other reason than you don't particularly like something some one else does.
Yep.... if your gonna force anything, it would have to be LOW detail. Personally, I wish they'd "force" GV's into their own separate arena and get this thing back to "air".
:)
Tumor
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Don't yea think that's more than fair?
No, I don't think that's more fair.
The games draw rate is based on planes. The GVs get the same draw rates going 35mph as planes do going 200+
Now, what you are suggesting is that when you reduce the draw rate of the clutter on the ground then the vehicles disappear. Well, that means when those rates are reduced to make the clutter go away so that the plane performance improves then the planes would also go away at the same distance the GVs went away, but since the planes go faster it would severely hamper the playability of the air war. Those pesky planes up there would simply pop up a whole lot quicker considering they are flying so much faster.
Now, you could devise a completely different performance system for ground.
That would of course put a great deal of effort into the staff time to counter this minimal element in the game, which again, is a Flight Based Game.
So no, because some people are petty in a vehicle is no reason to change the drawing system that will adversely affect the majority of the players.
Personally, I'd prefer that the developers spend time on new planes and maps then wasting it on such a minor problem in a small part of the game.
Not so easy after all is it? Might be more to consider than one might have thought?
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Originally posted by ROC
No, I don't think that's more fair.
The games draw rate is based on planes. The GVs get the same draw rates going 35mph as planes do going 200+
Now, what you are suggesting is that when you reduce the draw rate of the clutter on the ground then the vehicles disappear. Well, that means when those rates are reduced to make the clutter go away so that the plane performance improves then the planes would also go away at the same distance the GVs went away, but since the planes go faster it would severely hamper the playability of the air war. Those pesky planes up there would simply pop up a whole lot quicker considering they are flying so much faster.
Now, you could devise a completely different performance system for ground.
That would of course put a great deal of effort into the staff time to counter this minimal element in the game, which again, is a Flight Based Game.
So no, because some people are petty in a vehicle is no reason to change the drawing system that will adversely affect the majority of the players.
Personally, I'd prefer that the developers spend time on new planes and maps then wasting it on such a minor problem in a small part of the game.
Not so easy after all is it? Might be more to consider than one might have thought?
I originally posted I thought it should be full vis forced because the map is built with those objects so they should be seen. The other option sounded reasonable to me as well. As said by another in this thread, you would have to have a pretty bad PC to not be able to play this game at full vis in GV's. My 4 year old PC was able to play GV's just fine at full vis, until I replaced it this year with a new build.
It might be a small problem for you likely because you probably don't GV very much. There are a lot of people however that do GV a good portion of their play time. So it's not any less important IMO than some dweeby way to glitch while flying a airplane.
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So this is how i get killed by the guy i can never see in gvs :confused:
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this to me is kinda gamey but ow well. it is not going to be changed due to the high amount of players that do have crapy walmart speacials.
ROC is correct on there is way more then you think there is to fixing this problem as you would say. you want it to be forced into full vis, are you nuts while GVin you should be in Ground Vis. If you are dieing alot to GV with their graphics turned down then you should better position yourself to be able to kill them first. Its what i do and i love gvin with the best of them.
I would agree i would like to see another fighter and some maps i would also like to see ToD as well. these things will come in due time, time is something i have and i am willing to wait. I hope the next plane added will not come down to a vote again. i would hate to see another Mid. size bomber added to the list.
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GVs are less important than airplanes in here, strafing. That's the way it's always been. That's why the GVs don't drive like GVs. Anyone ever driven a jeep, or a piece of armor? When stationary and parked on level ground with the engine off, and the gear box disengaged, would pushing the accelerator cause the tank to lurch backwards? The brakes, backwards?
How about why the tanks in AH steer magically steer without individual track brakes, or why they bounce off of trees and shrubs like they've been fired out of a cannon. I've driven a jeep, and it did not roll end over end indefinitely when you hit the brakes too hard.
The ground game is already a farce (well, it's a game after all). There's so many other things that should be a higher priority than forcing people to run settings their hardware isn't up to.
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Originally posted by crockett
Well as it was suggested above, if they can turn down quality settings, then it should also affect their ability to see the GV's at a distance. If they can't see the trees or the barn the GV is next too, well then it's not unreasonable to say they shouldn't see the GV either. Don't yea think that's more than fair?
Another thing.. before I built my new system. I ran this game on a Radeon 9800 pro video card, in a PC that I built in 2003. I used to get on average of 20 -30 FPS but was often much less at times. Reguardless I still didn't have any issues running full detail in GV's. This was even after the terrain upgrades and when people used to puff smoke like crazy to hide behind.
I agree..
I play the whole game, planes, bombers, GV's.. I think it would be more fun to cruise to a cool hiding place on the edge of a tree line and wait till an unsuspecting tank rolls by and wack him. The problem is, I can't see through the tree I am sitting next to, because I am sitting next to it. My advisory can't see the tree from where he is sitting because he is far away. He can lob shells and hit me, because of his distance, so the trees, which in RL provide cover, provide me nothing.
I know some people will say "this is a game, not RL", but I would think it wouldn't be very hard to code the game so ALL objects, can't be seen if the detail slider is moved.
If you can't see the tree at 2k, you should't see the tank either.
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I totally agree with Strafing on this one I think it is cheap. I also have a Walmart special and full graphics only affect me when I drive for 2 hours to get to the fuel strat and all the smoke starts up otherwise my walmart special handels full graphics just fine. Further more how can you ambush sombody behind invisible obstructions?
or maybe we could add this beauty to kill troops!!!!
(http://www.defensetech.org/images/combat_tricycle.jpg):aok
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Originally posted by Scca
I agree..
I play the whole game, planes, bombers, GV's.. I think it would be more fun to cruise to a cool hiding place on the edge of a tree line and wait till an unsuspecting tank rolls by and wack him. The problem is, I can't see through the tree I am sitting next to, because I am sitting next to it. My advisory can't see the tree from where he is sitting because he is far away. He can lob shells and hit me, because of his distance, so the trees, which in RL provide cover, provide me nothing.
I know some people will say "this is a game, not RL", but I would think it wouldn't be very hard to code the game so ALL objects, can't be seen if the detail slider is moved.
If you can't see the tree at 2k, you shouldn't see the tank either.
Yep that's the worst part about it.. While you might be hiding in trees, you see the trees and can't see the other guy even if your graphics are set at low. Yet the guy 2k away can still see you and it's only a matter of time before he hits you.
Kilz.. There is only so much you can do other than hope the guy is a bad aim. Sure I have my own tricks for trying to counter this, but it's pretty much only for defense. There isn't much you can do if you are the one advancing. btw killz ground mode is nothing more that full vis settings if I'm not mistaken.
Honestly I'd love to hear from someone whom can say their PC won't run the GV end of this game at full detail. Swoop just said his PC will run it, and I know that my 4 year old PC would run it before I built my new one.
IMO the only way to fix this and I really don't think it would be a hard thing to do, is to force ground mode view for all GV's. I mean lets get real, how many people are actually playing this game with a 900mhz p3 with 256mb's of ram?
I wouldn't expect HTC crew to drop everything to fix this, right this min. I do however think it should be something that is put on the plate for one of the future updates.
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Originally posted by crockett
snip
btw killz ground mode is nothing more that full vis settings if I'm not mistaken.
Honestly I'd love to hear from someone whom can say their PC won't run the GV end of this game at full detail. Swoop just said his PC will run it, and I know that my 4 year old PC would run it before I built my new one.
IMO the only way to fix this and I really don't think it would be a hard thing to do, is to force ground mode view for all GV's. I mean lets get real, how many people are actually playing this game with a 900mhz p3 with 256mb's of ram?
I think you are mistaken on the the ground settings. Read up on the topic.
Swoop says his PC will run it, but that doesn't mean anything whatsoever. We know nothing about swoop's PC.
If you want to hear from people who have trouble with graphics issues, look in the tech support and bug forums. There are plenty, whether you know about them or not.
Ground Vis mode, Ground Detail Range, and Object Detail are different things. Do you even know which one you're trying to have changed?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think you are mistaken on the the ground settings. Read up on the topic.
Swoop says his PC will run it, but that doesn't mean anything whatsoever. We know nothing about swoop's PC.
If you want to hear from people who have trouble with graphics issues, look in the tech support and bug forums. There are plenty, whether you know about them or not.
Ground Vis mode, Ground Detail Range, and Object Detail are different things. Do you even know which one you're trying to have changed?
I think you are reading more into what Swoop said.. Read it again..
I also have a Walmart special and full graphics only affect me when I drive for 2 hours to get to the fuel strat and all the smoke starts up otherwise my walmart special handels full graphics just fine.
Hub, I also just looked through the current 3 pages in the tech support forum and I didn't see a single post devoted to people whom can't run the GV end of the game do to graphic's issues. Maybe you could point out all these topics where so many are having issues.
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Originally posted by crockett
I mean lets get real, how many people are actually playing this game with a 900mhz p3 with 256mb's of ram?
Dell Dimension T-600
600 meg PIII
528 megs PC100/PC133 SDRAM
64 meg NVidea G-Force MX-440
Soundblaster Live Value sound card
Windows 98
Frame rates normally in the 25-35 range although dropping to high teens on rare occasions.
I can't turn object detail up without frames dropping into low teens to single didgets. Tried playing in the fog the other night at a frame rate of 3. I never see it that bad. Guess I need to stay away from the foggy areas.
For the record, I'd have no problem with hiding a tank that was supposed to be hidden and unable to be seen but forcing me to high detail settings (forcing me out of the game) isn't the way to go. I know I'm not the only one. Also, I don't choose to do this to "game the game". I do it so that I can play the game at all.
BTW, I would love to buy a new machine but have more pressing issues to be dealt with first. Send money and I'll upgrade tomorrow.
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Search back to when the terrain was initially changed, then come back and tell me that everyone can run AH at maximum Object Detail, and maximum Ground Detail Range. Tell us again how your old PC ran at significantly less than 20-30 fps at times, yet also ran perfectly at max detail and range. There is no separation between graphics in a tank, and graphics in the air. Graphics are graphics. People can and do have problems. If you want to see proof of this, look at periods when the game is updated, not months afterwards.
I'm not trying to be mean-spirited here, but I honestly don't think you know what you're asking for.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
There is no separation between graphics in a tank, and graphics in the air. Graphics are graphics.
This isn't entirely true. Frame rates are better with alt as there are fewer objects to render.
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May as well go back to AW graphics then so the few with crappy PCs can have higher Frame Rates. Sorry but the game should not allow people to not have to render the graphics. Everyone should have to see the same thing. If trees and buildings are going to effect so many people (which I am sure it doesn't, it's probably a SMALL minority) then HT should just get rid of them. Or regress to older, less detailed ones so those with lesser PCs can play. Then we can all fly stick planes with FR of 200 :rolleyes:
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Whether 10K above, or 10K away, they don't render. That's it.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Dell Dimension T-600
600 meg PIII
528 megs PC100/PC133 SDRAM
64 meg NVidea G-Force MX-440
Soundblaster Live Value sound card
Windows 98
Frame rates normally in the 25-35 range although dropping to high teens on rare occasions.
I can't turn object detail up without frames dropping into low teens to single didgets. Tried playing in the fog the other night at a frame rate of 3. I never see it that bad. Guess I need to stay away from the foggy areas.
For the record, I'd have no problem with hiding a tank that was supposed to be hidden and unable to be seen but forcing me to high detail settings (forcing me out of the game) isn't the way to go. I know I'm not the only one. Also, I don't choose to do this to "game the game". I do it so that I can play the game at all.
BTW, I would love to buy a new machine but have more pressing issues to be dealt with first. Send money and I'll upgrade tomorrow.
Yes but granted you aren't even running the game on the suggested hardware, so one would expect you might have problems. :D
Hell man if you are running a system like that I'm sure there are enough of us around that have PC parts laying around collecting dust. That would make a better system than what you are running. I know I have some stuff laying around from previous builds.
It's not like you are some two weeker or something, I'm sure there are a few of us that can help you get a better system going. No reason to run AH on a dinosaur like that. :eek:
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Search back to when the terrain was initially changed, then come back and tell me that everyone can run AH at maximum Object Detail, and maximum Ground Detail Range. Tell us again how your old PC ran at significantly less than 20-30 fps at times, yet also ran perfectly at max detail and range. There is no separation between graphics in a tank, and graphics in the air. Graphics are graphics. People can and do have problems. If you want to see proof of this, look at periods when the game is updated, not months afterwards.
I'm not trying to be mean-spirited here, but I honestly don't think you know what you're asking for.
There doesn't have to be a separation between graphics in the air vs graphics on the ground.
When you up a GV, you automatically go into "control mode 2". I'm sure there is a way to force ground vis mode while in control mode 2. If no other way than simply locking the detail slider in place while in C2 mode.
You can believe what you want Hub. I always ran at full detail on the slider, the only thing I ever changed was during flight I'd go into flight mode. Only time I ever had real issues was in big furballs so I for the most part always avoided those.
For me I want my graphics to look as good as possible, so I always ran full detail in GV's.
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"Auto" selection of control modes is also an option.
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hub I'm starting to think you just like to argue for the sake of argument. Do you even GV very much? As in going out and doing tank battles? Not just upping a osti to shoot at airplanes.
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I don't auto select control modes. Everything is I do is in control mode 1 (MS Sidewinder Precision Pro).
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Gv'ing is for noobs and squeakers.
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Originally posted by Stang
Gv'ing is for noobs and squeakers.
Really?
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Originally posted by Stang
Gv'ing is for noobs and squeakers.
seconded
6/10 since the thread helped people figure out how they are being out gamed.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
could someone provide factual information and screenshots showing the differences?
for instance detail slider all the way left for max detail ( including zoomed in and non zoomed views ) vs slider all the way right including zoomed/non zoomed views
as well as break it down and show the different types of views
SHIFT - F1
SHIFT - F2
SHIFT - F3
SHIFT - F4
with the before mentioned slider settings and zoom settings for each view type......
until someone shows that there is an advantage by doing as you have suggested, then all you will receive is remarks that you are quote: "whining"
edit: maybe if there is a problem or a work around to SEE people/GV's maybe some COAD that locks you in to SHIFT-F4 view mode when you are launching a GV, just like you can use F3 in bombers but not in Fighter or Attack mode......
Lol There's a definite advantage. To be perfectly honest, I do it myself. But you have to, its the only way, at this time, to keep up with everyone else who does it.
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Originally posted by crockett
hub I'm starting to think you just like to argue for the sake of argument. Do you even GV very much? As in going out and doing tank battles? Not just upping a osti to shoot at airplanes.
It's not that I like to argue, it's just that you're either intentionally dishonest, or simply don't know what you're talking about. Either of those is sufficient grounds to fight any of your ideas to "fix" something, in my book.
Yes, in my time here, I've taken a tank out once or twice. They're neat, but all you gamey tards turning your details way down, despite the fact that you have far better computers than I do, sort of takes the fun out of it. I normally just stick to defending bases now, as that negates the advantages to some extent. I can still hide on my field.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It's not that I like to argue, it's just that you're either intentionally dishonest, or simply don't know what you're talking about. Either of those is sufficient grounds to fight any of your ideas to "fix" something, in my book.
Yes, in my time here, I've taken a tank out once or twice. They're neat, but all you gamey tards turning your details way down, despite the fact that you have far better computers than I do, sort of takes the fun out of it. I normally just stick to defending bases now, as that negates the advantages to some extent. I can still hide on my field.
lol n/m not even worth a responce..
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Originally posted by crockett
Yep that's the worst part about it.. While you might be hiding in trees, you see the trees and can't see the other guy even if your graphics are set at low. Yet the guy 2k away can still see you and it's only a matter of time before he hits you.
Kilz.. There is only so much you can do other than hope the guy is a bad aim. Sure I have my own tricks for trying to counter this, but it's pretty much only for defense. There isn't much you can do if you are the one advancing. btw killz ground mode is nothing more that full vis settings if I'm not mistaken.
Honestly I'd love to hear from someone whom can say their PC won't run the GV end of this game at full detail. Swoop just said his PC will run it, and I know that my 4 year old PC would run it before I built my new one.
IMO the only way to fix this and I really don't think it would be a hard thing to do, is to force ground mode view for all GV's. I mean lets get real, how many people are actually playing this game with a 900mhz p3 with 256mb's of ram?
I wouldn't expect HTC crew to drop everything to fix this, right this min. I do however think it should be something that is put on the plate for one of the future updates.
ground mode and full vis mode are two diffrent modes try checking it out wile you are flying and gvin
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Originally posted by kilz
ground mode and full vis mode are two diffrent modes try checking it out wile you are flying and gvin
Rgr.. I thought it was just full vis, because I'm always at full vis and when ever I've tried to switch from normal to ground vis I never saw a difference. Even with my old PC.
Regardless of the deference between full vis or ground vis, this is still a problem that needs to be dealt with at some point. It really does take away from the fun of GV'ing.
I know I've busted up a few of the LTAR's base captures driving around in a M8 and had a blast doing it. That was one of my favorite things to do with GV's, sneak around in a M8 and turret the other GV's then kill them being a sneaky S.O.B. Now days it's next to impossible to do anything like that, due to once again people figuring out a way to game the game. (not meaning u LTAR's do it, just in general)
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Originally posted by crockett
This is just a thought here, but I'd love to suggest forcing "full" visibility for GV's in regards to the ground detail. I'm trying not to post this as a whine, but it's getting to the point GVing isn't even fun anymore.
It wasn't so bad before IMO as it seemed most players didn't do it. Now days every tom, dick and hairy lowers their detail so they can see through the trees and everything else.
IMO full ground detail should be "forced" by the game when in you are in a GV. It shouldn't even be an option to lower it. Getting shot from 5k away when there are hedgerows trees and everything under the sun between you and the other guy is getting pretty dam old.
It's so bad now, that if you don't do it too, you get killed by the guys doing it. So why can't we just force the players to play honest and just Force full detail settings while in GV's?
Just a thought..
i'll start off by stating that i truely sukc in gv's...and you don't need anythingf special to kill me in one.......BUT....NOW i know how the hell i'm getting hit by guys that i can't even see....i see their rounds comming up over a hill, and they manage to hit and sometimes kill me.:noid
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Originally posted by crockett
I originally posted I thought it should be full vis forced because the map is built with those objects so they should be seen. The other option sounded reasonable to me as well. As said by another in this thread, you would have to have a pretty bad PC to not be able to play this game at full vis in GV's. My 4 year old PC was able to play GV's just fine at full vis, until I replaced it this year with a new build.
It might be a small problem for you likely because you probably don't GV very much. There are a lot of people however that do GV a good portion of their play time. So it's not any less important IMO than some dweeby way to glitch while flying a airplane.
for the most part, i agree with ya......my loder puter with the amd sathalon cpu and geforce6800gt vid does about 20-40fps......but my new puter.......3.1ghz, geforce7600 vid, only does 8-10fps.......soooooo.........
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No need to force anything. Just tie when the gv is drawn to object detail.
Can't see the trees or the hill? NP you can't see the GV either.
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Well, I think the solution is simple then, if I am beside a tree that disappears then I should disappear to that way the crybabies with cheap systems can have good frame rate and I can have my ambush!:aok
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It's not that I like to argue, it's just that you're either intentionally dishonest, or simply don't know what you're talking about. Either of those is sufficient grounds to fight any of your ideas to "fix" something, in my book.
Yes, in my time here, I've taken a tank out once or twice. They're neat, but all you gamey tards turning your details way down, despite the fact that you have far better computers than I do, sort of takes the fun out of it. I normally just stick to defending bases now, as that negates the advantages to some extent. I can still hide on my field.
Once or twice? You did 135 sorties in a GV last tour alone. Dunno why you're arguing with this guy. All he is asking for is a even playing field as far as GVs go. He is against being able to turn the details down to no trees and buildings.
He doesn't want to do it because everyone else is. He just wants it so everyone can enjoy the GVs as there entended to be enjoyed. Part of GVing is sneaking around to set up a shot on someone. I can't figure out why this is so hard for you to comprehend. I understand those that want better frame rates. But to make a setting that people can use to game the game and ruin the fun of the game to me is something I would think HT would want fixed. I have no perfect answer to make everyone happy. But the bottom line is rendering the graphics where there not seen to me is lame.
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Originally posted by Bronk
No need to force anything. Just tie when the gv is drawn to object detail.
Can't see the trees or the hill? NP you can't see the GV either.
That doesn't solve the problem. It just turns the tables and gives the guys who can turn detail up the advantage.
I don't remember this being an issue in AH1. I wonder what changed in II? It might be worth re-visiting how this was dealt with in AH1.
The other option is to program it so that if an unseen object is between you and the enemy then the enemy isn't rendered but they are if they come out from behind it.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
That doesn't solve the problem. It just turns the tables and gives the guys who can turn detail up the advantage.
I don't remember this being an issue in AH1. I wonder what changed in II? It might be worth re-visiting how this was dealt with in AH1.
The other option is to program it so that if an unseen object is between you and the enemy then the enemy isn't rendered but they are if they come out from behind it.
How? If your hiding behind a hill or trees I still couldn't see you with detail turned up..
I said detail not distance.
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
May as well go back to AW graphics then so the few with crappy PCs can have higher Frame Rates. Sorry but the game should not allow people to not have to render the graphics. Everyone should have to see the same thing. If trees and buildings are going to effect so many people (which I am sure it doesn't, it's probably a SMALL minority) then HT should just get rid of them. Or regress to older, less detailed ones so those with lesser PCs can play. Then we can all fly stick planes with FR of 200 :rolleyes:
I agree. IMO this game is hobbled enough by the 'least common denominator' (i.e. crap PCs), it really needs to move forward graphically.
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Originally posted by Bronk
How? If your hiding behind a hill or trees I still couldn't see you with detail turned up..
I said detail not distance.
If the vehicle is tied to object detail it won't render the vehicle until it's as close as the nearest object you can see, therfore, at x distance in clear terrain, someone with object detail turned down won't be able to see a vehicle rendered while someone with object detail turned up will.
I understand what you're getting at though. It's basically what I outlined in my last post.
As to the game being hindered by older machines it doesn't have to be and the older machines can still be allowed to run it although additional graphic and sound settings would be needed. Racing games have done this for years, offering a number of settings which can be adjusted and special effects that can be turned off and on by the user to maximize the game to their preferences (performance and/or eye/ear candy).
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
Once or twice? You did 135 sorties in a GV last tour alone. Dunno why you're arguing with this guy. All he is asking for is a even playing field as far as GVs go. He is against being able to turn the details down to no trees and buildings.
He doesn't want to do it because everyone else is. He just wants it so everyone can enjoy the GVs as there entended to be enjoyed. Part of GVing is sneaking around to set up a shot on someone. I can't figure out why this is so hard for you to comprehend. I understand those that want better frame rates. But to make a setting that people can use to game the game and ruin the fun of the game to me is something I would think HT would want fixed. I have no perfect answer to make everyone happy. But the bottom line is rendering the graphics where there not seen to me is lame.
The argument is about the proposed solution. The solution advocated by Crockett and you (i.e. force full detail settings)would mean some people would be left unable to play.
Hub and others are saying that a so-called solution that causes people to be unable to play is unacceptable, and a different solution should be found.
Bronk's is IMO a better solution. The unfair advantage for those "gaming the system" is removed, but it forces no one out of the game.
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Originally posted by E25280
The argument is about the proposed solution. The solution advocated by Crockett and you (i.e. force full detail settings)would mean some people would be left unable to play.
Hub and others are saying that a so-called solution that causes people to be unable to play is unacceptable, and a different solution should be found.
Bronk's is IMO a better solution. The unfair advantage for those "gaming the system" is removed, but it forces no one out of the game.
Yea but the problem is, someone else had already suggested that solution but then I think it was Roc said it would hurt the guys in the air as well. Meaning they couldn't see other cons from a long distance off.
Maybe we should just focus on the problem rather than trying to think up of a solution. My post was manily meant to show the problem existed and that it allows other players to game the game in a way I'm sure HTC guys didn't intend.
I offered up my own personal solution as part of the post, but that was just my opinion on a possible solution. I'm not a game developer but I know my way around 3D apps and have some experience in building maps for other games and so on. I understand the issues with rendering too many objects in one area and use of portals and so on.
Yet I'm not a coder nor do I know exactly how the game engine works 4 AH. So a solution would better be left for the HTC guys to figure out and we can just point out that a problem exists that allows unscrupulous players to game the game.
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People are turnning their graphic settins down to game the game. this is not about players that cant turn them up. Hello... The ony players that can turn their settings down are the ones that already have them turned up.
You all are debating about the wrong issue....
People are game ing the game. we have the same issue with the sounds. How do u think players can run their gv in hi gear in the woods and come up ur 6 every time blast u and keep on moving. and u never hear them coming.
IF there is something in the game designed to hide behind then u SHOULD be albe to hide behind it hello.........
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I just simply stated the real issue. I have not stated any ideas on how to fix it.\\
How do u know that this issue can not be fix without all the difficulties You see?
Therrrrrrrr is way to much presumption oh your part.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Does anyone really think anything is gained by pushing honest customers out the door, in order to change the game to keep those who will happily use whatever exploit they can in check?
You want to cull some customers, ban the guys who use the exploits, don't **** on the customers who've been your bread and butter.
Seriously, what kind of logic is that?
One could easily reword that post and come up with a whole different take on it.
Do you really think anything is gained by pushing honest customers out the door, by not changing the game to stop those who will happily use whatever exploit they can?
How can they really ban anyone for doing it, if it's built into the game?
Seriously, what kind of logic is that?
FireDrgn someone else turning their volume down will not affect what you hear, it only affects what they hear. If you can't hear someone sneaking up on your six then either your volume setting is turned down too low or your engine is running.
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You dont know what im talking about. Your journey to the dark side is not complete
If I turn all sounds down and turn external sounds up. I can hear your tank while i am moving. Its no differant than removing the trees. Im removing the sounds. I then turn the sound YOUR tank makes UP. I can hear u moving u cant hear me. I WIN
P.S. WERE did hubspost go
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Originally posted by FireDrgn
You dont know what im talking about. Your journey to the dark side is not complete
If I turn all sounds down and turn external sounds up. I can hear your tank while i am moving. Its no differant than removing the trees. Im removing the sounds. I then turn the sound YOUR tank makes UP. I can hear u moving u cant hear me. I WIN
P.S. WERE did hubspost go
Yea I know what you mean in regards to that. I thought you were saying they turned their volume down, then you could no longer hear them.
Personally I just ride in my pintle gun position and I just keep an eye out in all directions. I'll stop and kill my engine to listen for other GV's. I rarely ever have anyone sneak up on my six in a GV.
When I first started this game I heard other's talking about turning their sounds down. I tried it to see what they were talking about, but I thought it was kinda annoying not hearing my own engine.
I do however have my internal engine noises turned down by about 20% to 30% just because they were just far too loud IMO. Sometimes it's just too hard to hear guys on Vox and honestly it was just annoying after a while having the engine noise at default sound levels.
I also turned that dam base alarm to 0%. :D
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think it goes without saying that you can reword a post and that it will have a different meaning. However, to go with your rewording of a post I already deleted, since the game is set up this way, it's not an exploit, or gamey BS as you have stated repeatedly. It's just you trying to get the game changed in a way that you think will improve one particular aspect of the game for yourself.
And, of course, you still don't know wtf you're talking about.
I'm starting to think you are one of the gamey tards doing this.. As I can see no other reason as to why you are so dead set against fixing the issue..
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Whether 10K above, or 10K away, they don't render. That's it.
When in GV you usually have much more objects close to you, than if you fly at 10k. For example, if you at 10k forest apears as single object instead of lots of trees.
Originally posted by BaldEagl
That doesn't solve the problem. It just turns the tables and gives the guys who can turn detail up the advantage.
If your computer cannt handle full detail range, it must be your problem not my, right? You cannt see through trees or hills in RL, you must not be able to do that in game no matter how old or new your PC is.
BTW, i always move detail slider all way right (fastest) if i'm in GV.
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Originally posted by Stang
Gv'ing is for noobs and squeakers.
.squelch stang
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Originally posted by crockett
This is just a thought here, but I'd love to suggest forcing "full" visibility for GV's in regards to the ground detail. I'm trying not to post this as a whine, but it's getting to the point GVing isn't even fun anymore.
It wasn't so bad before IMO as it seemed most players didn't do it. Now days every tom, dick and hairy lowers their detail so they can see through the trees and everything else.
IMO full ground detail should be "forced" by the game when in you are in a GV. It shouldn't even be an option to lower it. Getting shot from 5k away when there are hedgerows trees and everything under the sun between you and the other guy is getting pretty dam old.
It's so bad now, that if you don't do it too, you get killed by the guys doing it. So why can't we just force the players to play honest and just Force full detail settings while in GV's?
Just a thought..
Thanks for the tip.. Just learned a new trick. :D