Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on December 10, 2007, 03:56:53 PM
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link (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3977702&page=1)
Rape, kidnapping, coverup... Yeah, they are a great outfit.A Houston, Texas woman says she was gang-raped by Halliburton/KBR coworkers in Baghdad, and the company and the U.S. government are covering up the incident.
Jamie Leigh Jones, now 22, says that after she was raped by multiple men at a KBR camp in the Green Zone, the company put her under guard in a shipping container with a bed and warned her that if she left Iraq for medical treatment, she'd be out of a job.
In a lawsuit filed in federal court against Halliburton and its then-subsidiary KBR, Jones says she was held in the shipping container for at least 24 hours without food or water by KBR, which posted armed security guards outside her door, who would not let her leave.
Finally, Jones says, she convinced a sympathetic guard to loan her a cell phone so she could call her father in Texas. Her father called their congressman, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas.
"We contacted the State Department first," Poe told ABCNews.com, "and told them of the urgency of rescuing an American citizen" -- from her American employer.
Poe says his office contacted the State Department, which quickly dispatched agents from the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad to Jones' camp, where they rescued her from the container.
According to her lawsuit, Jones was raped by "several attackers who first drugged her, then repeatedly raped and injured her, both physically and emotionally."
Jones told ABCNews.com that an examination by Army doctors showed she had been raped but that the rape kit disappeared after it was handed over to KBR security officers.
I hope this young woman gets justice.
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I'm sure Al Sharpton will get to the bottom of it.
Mac
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WTF Mac? Did you read the story? What if it were your daughter?
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Originally posted by rpm
Rape, kidnapping, coverup... Yeah, they are a great outfit. I hope this young woman gets justice.
Assuming she is telling the truth...
I have no evidence to tell me if she is or is not.
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I'd say there is quite a bit of evidence. The call to Congressman Poe, the group from the State Department that rescued her from a KBR shipping container, you also have the expert testimony from the Army doctors.
Of course that's if you could get this into an open courtroom.
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RPM it's a lil tuff to believe anything anymore without further investigation. There are too many people out there trying to make a fast buck at the expense of others.
Once I hear the whole story I'll decide on what I believe.
Mac
As my reference to Al Sharpton. Well I'll just leave it at that.
Word
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I can call my congressman, that proves nothing.
Jones told ABCNews.com that an examination by Army doctors showed she had been raped ... but that the rape kit disappeared after it was handed over to KBR security officers.
"Jones said."
The rescue from a container does not prove how someone found themselves in the container.
So far this is just a story. How credible it is will be up to a jury. So far we have someone's word for it.
If we were to jump to a conclusion of guilt based on this much evidence against ... say... black people, that would be bad wouldn't it?
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THIS JUST IN! HILLARY CLINTON IS ACCUSED OF J WALKING
AWMAC - KILL HER!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOLDEN - 50 LASHINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by cav58d
HOLDEN - 50 LASHINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
50 lashes? He deserves at least 100 for what he did to me!
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What's the punishment for rape in Iraq?
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RPM,
You have the left to blame for the lack of sympothy. For 5 years now we have heard so many storys at how HB/KBR is the root to all evil and they will intern us under the power of FEMA if we talk bad about them.
Like I tell my two young kids all the time. It's the boy who cried wolf one too many times.
Yes if this is true it is tragic and those that perpotrated the crime need to be punished period!
BUT,
We've heard so many times at how this black ops company is SOOOOO BAD yet no evidence to back it up, when a serious crime presents itself the reaction is negligable.
Sorry dude!
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Originally posted by rpm
[B Rape, kidnapping, coverup... Yeah, they are a great outfit.I hope this young woman gets justice. [/B]
If this is true I would be disgusted w/ our govt for if they don't find a way for the perps to be criminally punished and to an appropriate degree.
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If a woman was raped by GM/Ford employees I guess you would feel the same way about those companies?
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If her accusation is proven to be true everyone involved needs to do some serious jail time. If it's not true she needs to do serious jail time.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
If a woman was raped by GM/Ford employees I guess you would feel the same way about those companies?
The rape itself is deplorable, and that is on an individual level by the folks who took part in it. But I think the part he was talking about in the initial post was the handling of it afterward by the company leadership (at the camp, and the higher echelons). I haven't seen anything detailed about it yet, but if any level of management in the company knew about this without taking action, it's a complete outrage.
Is it understandable to not call the military police at the installation they were at? Is it understandable to know that this woman was being held captive in a storage container under guard without taking action? Who would have been in a position to tell her she wouldn't have a job if she sought help? Why would KBR investigators receive the rape kit instead of the police?
I'll watch with interest to see how details about this emerge.
*edit* Yes, it reflects on the company... not just the individuals.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
If a woman was raped by GM/Ford employees I guess you would feel the same way about those companies?
Had it been GM/Ford employees, the episode wouldn't matter. The woman's pain and suffering wouldn't matter. Add Haliburton to the mix now she's a victim. Now she can matter.
Politics suck, so do rapist of any stripe.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
If a woman was raped by GM/Ford employees I guess you would feel the same way about those companies?
The union would protect em:p
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Originally posted by texasmom
Why would KBR investigators receive the rape kit instead of the police?
Very very good question.
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I bet Cheney himself ordered it because she was too close to the truth!
Building 7!
Area 51 man!!!
Speak truth to power!!!
:rofl Send crack prosecutor Nifong down there he will sort it all out.
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Originally posted by Pooh21
politico-rhetoric-monkey-pooh-flinging-flatulence-mistakenly-thought-to-address-the-topic .....
And it was teh funnay! Funnayest evar! No .... really. Damned good job you. On a roll, man! You won the thread.
;) :aok
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I posted snippets of page 1 of the story. There is much more than what I posted. Click the link, read the story, then form your opinion.
Is the Republican Congressman lying? Why did a detail from the US Embassy find her under armed guard in a shipping container? If it were GM or Ford she could have contacted the police, unfortunately she worked for "the authorities" in Baghdad, KBR.
Legal experts say Jones' alleged assailants will likely never face a judge and jury, due to an enormous loophole that has effectively left contractors in Iraq beyond the reach of United States law.
I wonder who designed the loophole? This thing stinks to high heaven.
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We turn down Haliburton.. they do not pay their bills.
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quote:
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Legal experts say Jones' alleged assailants will likely never face a judge and jury, due to an enormous loophole that has effectively left contractors in Iraq beyond the reach of United States law.
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what about iraqi law?
i presume rape is illegal in iraq, and these are civilian contractors and this did happen in iraq, right
if the iraqi government is so lame and toady that it hasn't got the authority to bring to trial foreign civilians suspected of crimes in iraq then mickey mouse is a long way from disneyland
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Originally posted by rpm
I posted snippets of page 1 of the story. There is much more than what I posted. Click the link, read the story, then form your opinion.
Is the Republican Congressman lying? Why did a detail from the US Embassy find her under armed guard in a shipping container? If it were GM or Ford she could have contacted the police, unfortunately she worked for "the authorities" in Baghdad, KBR.
I wonder who designed the loophole? This thing stinks to high heaven.
what I don't understand is that they are still subject to LOAC (law of armed conflict). ALL US citizens in a war zone are subject to this.
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how can a company commit a rape?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
how can a company commit a rape?
lazs
If the companies employees commit a rape while on the job and the company knows about it, then didn't the company really commit rape?
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Originally posted by rpm
link (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3977702&page=1)
Rape, kidnapping, coverup... Yeah, they are a great outfit.I hope this young woman gets justice.
Do you mean a rush to judgment?
I hope that justice is done in this situation....whichever side turns out to deserve it.
Of course, I have an open mind and simply want the truth, not whatever is convenient for my political axe-grinding.
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the company knew about it? you mean someone in the company knew about it right?
lazs
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I do not know if they did, but what I meant was if management of any kind knew.
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I find it odd that she said they told her if she left to seek medical teatment she would lose her job. IF she was raped I doubt she would be so worried about keeping her job.
I'm having a some doubt about her accusations.
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Originally posted by lazs2
how can a company commit a rape?
lazs
I think that the rape charge is just one thing, covering up, obstruction, unlawful incarceration, and tampering with evidence can surely be done by a company!:aok
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I think that the rape charge is just one thing, covering up, obstruction, unlawful incarceration, and tampering with evidence can surely be done by a company!:aok
a "company" is just a legal entity, the things you mention have to be done by people.
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ummm...and as a legal entity the company can and will be held liable for illegal activities thats its members commit for the company.
besides legality, if a company has skeezy people working for it, the actions of the company are more than likely going to be skeezy
the whole no-bid crap is what got me not liking the company.
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I have been following, for quite a while, our servicewomen being sexually assaulted and raped by American servicemen in Iraq...
I don't jump to conclusions but… this article is but the tip of the iceberg of allegations and supported fact.
TIGERESS
from --> http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/57/17327
Military Hides Cause of Women Soldiers' Deaths
By Marjorie Cohn
t r u t h o u t | Report
Monday 30 January 2006
In a startling revelation, the former commander of Abu Ghraib prison testified that Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, former senior US military commander in Iraq, gave orders to cover up the cause of death for some female American soldiers serving in Iraq.
Last week, Col. Janis Karpinski told a panel of judges at the Commission of Inquiry for Crimes against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration in New York that several women had died of dehydration because they refused to drink liquids late in the day. They were afraid of being assaulted or even raped by male soldiers if they had to use the women's latrine after dark.
The latrine for female soldiers at Camp Victory wasn't located near their barracks, so they had to go outside if they needed to use the bathroom. "There were no lights near any of their facilities, so women were doubly easy targets in the dark of the night," Karpinski told retired US Army Col. David Hackworth in a September 2004 interview. It was there that male soldiers assaulted and raped women soldiers. So the women took matters into their own hands. They didn't drink in the late afternoon so they wouldn't have to urinate at night. They didn't get raped. But some died of dehydration in the desert heat, Karpinski said.
Karpinski testified that a surgeon for the coalition's joint task force said in a briefing that "women in fear of getting up in the hours of darkness to go out to the port-a-lets or the latrines were not drinking liquids after 3 or 4 in the afternoon, and in 120 degree heat or warmer, because there was no air-conditioning at most of the facilities, they were dying from dehydration in their sleep."
"And rather than make everybody aware of that - because that's shocking, and as a leader if that's not shocking to you then you're not much of a leader - what they told the surgeon to do is don't brief those details anymore. And don't say specifically that they're women. You can provide that in a written report but don't brief it in the open anymore."
For example, Maj. Gen. Walter Wojdakowski, Sanchez's top deputy in Iraq, saw "dehydration" listed as the cause of death on the death certificate of a female master sergeant in September 2003. Under orders from Sanchez, he directed that the cause of death no longer be listed, Karpinski stated. The official explanation for this was to protect the women's privacy rights.
Sanchez's attitude was: "The women asked to be here, so now let them take what comes with the territory," Karpinski quoted him as saying. Karpinski told me that Sanchez, who was her boss, was very sensitive to the political ramifications of everything he did. She thinks it likely that when the information about the cause of these women's deaths was passed to the Pentagon, Donald Rumsfeld ordered that the details not be released. "That's how Rumsfeld works," she said.
"It was out of control," Karpinski told a group of students at Thomas Jefferson School of Law last October. There was an 800 number women could use to report sexual assaults. But no one had a phone, she added. And no one answered that number, which was based in the United States. Any woman who successfully connected to it would get a recording. Even after more than 83 incidents were reported during a six-month period in Iraq and Kuwait, the 24-hour rape hot line was still answered by a machine that told callers to leave a message.
"There were countless such situations all over the theater of operations - Iraq and Kuwait - because female soldiers didn't have a voice, individually or collectively," Karpinski told Hackworth. "Even as a general I didn't have a voice with Sanchez, so I know what the soldiers were facing. Sanchez did not want to hear about female soldier requirements and/or issues."
Karpinski was the highest officer reprimanded for the Abu Ghraib torture scandal, although the details of interrogations were carefully hidden from her. Demoted from Brigadier General to Colonel, Karpinski feels she was chosen as a scapegoat because she was a female.
Sexual assault in the US military has become a hot topic in the last few years, "not just because of the high number of rapes and other assaults, but also because of the tendency to cover up assaults and to harass or retaliate against women who report assaults," according to Kathy Gilberd, co-chair of the National Lawyers Guild's Military Law Task Force.
This problem has become so acute that the Army has set up its own sexual assault web site.
In February 2004, Rumsfeld directed the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness to undertake a 90-day review of sexual assault policies. "Sexual assault will not be tolerated in the Department of Defense," Rumsfeld declared.
The 99-page report was issued in April 2004. It affirmed, "The chain of command is responsible for ensuring that policies and practices regarding crime prevention and security are in place for the safety of service members." The rates of reported alleged sexual assault were 69.1 and 70.0 per 100,000 uniformed service members in 2002 and 2003. Yet those rates were not directly comparable to rates reported by the Department of Justice, due to substantial differences in the definition of sexual assault.
Notably, the report found that low sociocultural power (i.e., age, education, race/ethnicity, marital status) and low organizational power (i.e., pay grade and years of active duty service) were associated with an increased likelihood of both sexual assault and sexual harassment.
The Department of Defense announced a new policy on sexual assault prevention and response on January 3, 2005. It was a reaction to media reports and public outrage about sexual assaults against women in the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing sexual assaults and cover-ups at the Air Force Academy in Colorado, Gilberd said. As a result, Congress demanded that the military review the problem, and the Defense Authorization Act of 2005 required a new policy be put in place by January 1.
The policy is a series of very brief "directive-type memoranda" for the Secretaries of the military services from the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness. "Overall, the policy emphasizes that sexual assault harms military readiness, that education about sexual assault policy needs to be increased and repeated, and that improvements in response to sexual assaults are necessary to make victims more willing to report assaults," Gilberd notes. "Unfortunately," she added "analysis of the issues is shallow, and the plans for addressing them are limited."
Commands can reject the complaints if they decide they aren't credible, and there is limited protection against retaliation against the women who come forward, according to Gilberd. "People who report assaults still face command disbelief, illegal efforts to protect the assaulters, informal harassment from assaulters, their friends or the command itself," she said.
But most shameful is Sanchez's cover-up of the dehydration deaths of women that occurred in Iraq. Sanchez is no stranger to outrageous military orders. He was heavily involved in the torture scandal that surfaced at Abu Ghraib. Sanchez approved the use of unmuzzled dogs and the insertion of prisoners head-first into sleeping bags after which they are tied with an electrical cord and their are mouths covered. At least one person died as the result of the sleeping bag technique. Karpinski charges that Sanchez attempted to hide the torture after the hideous photographs became public.
Sanchez reportedly plans to retire soon, according to an article in the International Herald Tribune earlier this month. But Rumsfeld recently considered elevating the 3-star general to a 4-star. The Tribune also reported that Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, the Army's chief spokesman, said in an email message, "The Army leaders do have confidence in LTG Sanchez."
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Marjorie Cohn is a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, President-elect of the National Lawyers Guild, and the US representative to the executive committee of the American Association of Jurists. She writes a weekly column for Truthout.
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Originally posted by bongaroo
ummm...and as a legal entity the company can and will be held liable for illegal activities thats its members commit for the company.
besides legality, if a company has skeezy people working for it, the actions of the company are more than likely going to be skeezy
the whole no-bid crap is what got me not liking the company.
yes, i did not mention that the company also has deep pockets, so the lawyers will sue the company. $$$$$
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I thought that was odd to read. Those gals got guns. Just bring them to the pot with you & kill anyone who attacks you. Sounds simple enough. They can go in pairs if they were worried (twice the bullets), and are very aware of the dehydration dangers.
Something intentional and preventable doesn't get much sympathy from me.
*edit* this post is in reply to the article about the female soldiers.
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Yeah, Mom. They were just begging for it, huh?
Here's one to chew on, why wasn't procecution so swift and harsh that the men would'nt think of committing rape? Well, ya know.... boys will be boys! Teeheeheee...:huh
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Originally posted by rpm
Yeah, Mom. They were just begging for it, huh?
Here's one to chew on, why wasn't procecution so swift and harsh that the men would'nt think of committing rape? Well, ya know.... boys will be boys! Teeheeheee...:huh
Yes, absolutely. If you don't drink water in that environment, 'you're asking' for death by dehydration. You can and should be responsible for your own actions at all times. If you don't drink water there, you can die.
Separately, yes, you're correct about the prosecution needing to be swift and harsh for rapists. It should absolutely be that way. However, missteps on the part of leadership by not making the punishment swift & harsh doesn't absolve responsibility of the women in making sure that they were hydrated well enough to survive.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Yes, absolutely. If you don't drink water in that environment, 'you're asking' for death by dehydration. You can and should be responsible for your own actions at all times. If you don't drink water there, you can die.
Separately, yes, you're correct about the prosecution needing to be swift and harsh for rapists. It should absolutely be that way. However, missteps on the part of leadership by not making the punishment swift & harsh doesn't absolve responsibility of the women in making sure that they were hydrated well enough to survive.
Agreed. Were I in that situation I would have a makeshift place to go safely... a porta potty for night use and/or go in groups armed to the teeth.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=rape+of+servicewomen+in+iraq
Part of the problem is use of sexual attacks to force women out all together.
TxMom, when you were in the army, did you have any problems from any the guys?
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by Tigeress
TxMom, when you were in the army, did you have any problems from any the guys?
TIGERESS
No, I never did have any problems. But I wasn't anywhere close to being in an environment that the soldiers are in nowadays, either. No isolation (being in the 'field' doesn't really count...), etc.
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Originally posted by rpm
blah blah blah Bush=Hitler blah blah blah Haliburton is EVIL blah blah blah Cheney is Satan's Huckleberry blah blah blah
Well, if there one thing to be said about you, you certainly are dumb.
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Originally posted by Yknurd
Well, if there one thing to be said about you, you certainly are dumb.
Well I know you sure impressed me more by sharing that fart in public with us all. I'm sure RPM appeciated you "making him look bad" with that, as well. Reap the sowage. Yeah, you won the thread.
;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
And it was teh funnay! Funnayest evar! No .... really. Damned good job you. On a roll, man! You won the thread.
;) :aok
its been about a few weeks since I last said this
so think of it as a helpful reminder
take a bath hippie
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I don't think he needs my help to make himself "look bad" as you say.
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Originally posted by Pooh21
take a bath hippie
Take your meds, skippy. ;)
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No matter how much anyone blindly detests or blindly defends KBR for their own personal reasons... it's never okay to show such little regard for the well being of another person in the way they did according to that article.
There's nothing wrong with rpm thinking that they're a bunch of blow-holes if they knew & didn't help her. Like them or not, if anyone in KBR knew that gal was gang raped & held captive, that's unsat. Bigtime unsat.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be so quick to hammer the nails in the KBR coffin. You're seeing a one-sided story. Not to say that her side should be disregarded at all... just saying that you can't base anything entirely on her side.
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Originally posted by john9001
a "company" is just a legal entity, the things you mention have to be done by people.
It is people who make up a company, or maybe you need to brush up on your Latin? Also maybe you need to look at some recent case law on how a "company" is responsible for the actions of it's managers!:aok
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Originally posted by SkyRock
It is people who make up a company, or maybe you need to brush up on your Latin? Also maybe you need to look at some recent case law on how a "company" is responsible for the actions of it's managers!:aok
So you agree with John then..
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Originally posted by texasmom
No matter how much anyone blindly detests or blindly defends KBR for their own personal reasons... it's never okay to show such little regard for the well being of another person in the way they did according to that article.
There's nothing wrong with rpm thinking that they're a bunch of blow-holes if they knew & didn't help her. Like them or not, if anyone in KBR knew that gal was gang raped & held captive, that's unsat. Bigtime unsat.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be so quick to hammer the nails in the KBR coffin. You're seeing a one-sided story. Not to say that her side should be disregarded at all... just saying that you can't base anything entirely on her side.
Great post, in my opinion.
After looking into it deeper, I think a lot more digging by authorties needs to be done in lieu of a quick rush to judgement.
My sixth sense is detecting something fishy, not quite right, with the alligations being levied against KBR and this whole thing.
Do I think American Servicewomen are being raped in IRAQ by American Servicemen? Yes, I do. There is way way too much smoke to be no fire.
TIGERESS
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I guess I would just have to see the company policy that covered all this and said that these guys were doing the right thing.
lazs
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my guess is that there are creeps everywhere .. even in Halliburton
feel for the woman if the allegations prove true
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Now Hillary is going over there.
WTG Remo!
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Originally posted by rpm
I'd say there is quite a bit of evidence. ......... you also have the expert testimony from the Army doctors.
hmmm actually "Jones told ABCNews.com that an examination by Army doctors showed she had been raped...".
So we have the person making the charge, claiming that some unnamed doctors can confirm her accusation. Thats not the same thing as having direct, documented testimony from these unnamed doctors.
What were these doctors names? Are there official records of this examination? Where is that documentation? Nothing happens in the military without paperwork.
It wouldn't suprise me to find out later that things didn't happen quite the way she claimed.
It also wouldn't suprise me a bit to find out later, after REAL, hard evidence and documentation has been gathered that her story is absolutely true.
I simply don't have the same "NEED" to believe it as you do and am withholding judgement, in either direction, until more facts are in.
$0.02,
Wab
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Guilty until proven Innocent!!!
:aok
Mac
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A different view:
http://www.overlawyered.com/2007/12/halliburton_gang_rape_and_fear.html
"In February 2006, Jamie Leigh Jones filed an arbitration complaint, complaining that, for her administrative assistant job with KBR in the Iraq Green Zone, she was placed in an all-male dorm for living arrangements, and a co-worker sexually assaulted her. [truncated] Fifteen months later, after extensive discovery in the arbitration, [truncated] The claims were suddenly of much more outrageous conduct: the original allegation of a single he-said/she-said sexual assault was now an allegation of gang rape by several unknown John Doe rapists who worked as firemen ...."
"the EEOC found that KBR provided immediate medical treatment and safety and shipped her home"
"But she no longer makes the implausible claim that she was living in an all-male dorm in Iraq"
"Note that two elements ..... Halliburton and gang-rape—only came about after Jones switched attorneys."
I do hope her congressman gets all the true fact out in the open. I agree with RPM that this whole thing does smell, but I think we are detecting different odors. Maybe after Tawana Brawley, Duke Lacross, and (dare I say) Juanita Broaddrick I'm just getting cynical in my old age.
:cool:
Wab
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I think I'd trust the Congressman (did I just say that?) and his investigation over a KBR arbitration. If it is as the KBR version claims, why aren't they cooperating with the investigation?
In recent testimony before Congress, employment lawyer Cathy Ventrell-Monsees said that Halliburton won more than 80 percent of arbitration proceedings brought against it.
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Originally posted by rpm
I think I'd trust the Congressman (did I just say that?) and his investigation over a KBR arbitration. If it is as the KBR version claims, why aren't they cooperating with the investigation?
I say they should appoint an Independent Investigation Team to take a honest and unbiased approach.
Like the Warren Commission.
Opps no... I meant Watergate....
Damm opps again... I meant Travelgate.... dammm...
Try something like Whitewater gate and appoint Vince Foster...opps ...chit.
Wait TailHook?
We could appoint someone to investigate, right?
Perry Mason?
:confused:
Mac
Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
(Woo woo woo)
What’s that you say, Mrs. Robinson
‘Joltin Joe’ has left and gone away?
(Hey hey hey – hey hey hey)
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"In February 2006.......?"
*Looks at Calendar frantically......*
WTF?
Mac
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Originally posted by Vulcan
What's the punishment for rape in Iraq?
A pat on the back, I suspect.
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Originally posted by rpm
I think I'd trust the Congressman
Well since al Capone is long passed I guess that would be a logical choice. :)
If it is as the KBR version claims, why aren't they cooperating with the investigation?
Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
You can`t be that naive.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
You can`t be that naive.
You got nothing to hide? No reason not to cooperate with the authorities.
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Originally posted by rpm
You got nothing to hide? No reason not to cooperate with the authorities.
Like I said..........you can`t possibly be that naive.
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Sounds like you are trying to hide something. Perhaps we need to investigate further. If during this investigation we discover a pattern to deceive and manipulate prejudical evidence I'd say we need to punish all involved harshly and swiftly. Or we could just get your daughter a job with KBR.
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Your best hope is that if you ever have any serious legal allegations against you, true or wrongly accused, is that a good legal team reaches you before you start weaving your own rope.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Your best hope is that if you ever have any serious legal allegations against you, true or wrongly accused, is that a good legal team reaches you before you start weaving your own rope.
That sounds like lawyer lovin' liberal talk to me.
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Originally posted by rpm
That sounds like lawyer lovin' liberal talk to me.
In large , significant cases, if you think that it has anything to do with guilty or innocent , then once again.....you can`t be that naive.
When rotten fights rotten.....you better hope you have rottenest bunch in the village. It`s a cold world. Reality is just that........reality.
In a firefight you certainly don`t want to haul over a load of ammo to your enemy.
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Ammo? You mean evidence? Why would you want to hide evidence of a crime that has been committed? You're sounding awful liberal there wanting to harbor criminals.
If what this woman claims is true then she and others are victims of being terrorised. Are you now saying you support terrorism against American citizens?
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Originally posted by rpm
If it is as the KBR version claims, why aren't they cooperating with the investigation?
In what way has KBR refused to cooperate with the Justice Departments investigation?
Wab
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Originally posted by rpm
Ammo? You mean evidence?
No...I mean ammo. Nobody is stopping anyone gathering evidence. IF any exists to begin with it is certainly not KBR`s job to gather it.
You're sounding awful liberal there wanting to harbor criminals.
Hehe. Like most liberals you are hiding from the term. Liberal would be letting a corrupt system with other than honorable intentions run over you without a fight because you are so trusting in those who have you bent over to begin with. :)
If what this woman claims is true then she and others are victims of being terrorised.
In which story that she has told ? She needs to pick one and stick with it to have any chance at getting the big bucks for the settlement that is so glaringly becoming obvious that she is seeking. Another scammer who doesn`t know when to quit beating her gums. She has more versions than Grim.
Are you now saying you support terrorism against American citizens?
On second thought....you just might be that naive.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
In what way has KBR refused to cooperate with the Justice Departments investigation?
Wab
I would like to see that proof too.
I'd also like to see proof that the Haliburton Board, COO, and CEO knew this went on and covered it up.
If somebody was raped, they should be punished. Including those that participated in a cover up if their is on.
Why does this have to be political?
The title to this should be Employees of Halliburton accused of rape. Instead it seems that certain individuals, in their blind hate, want to blame Halliburton itself.
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Uno momento, por favor... Show me where I said punish the company. I said those responsable should be punished.
Liberal would be letting a corrupt system with other than honorable intentions run over you without a fight because you are so trusting in those who have you bent over to begin with.
Uh, pot, meet kettle.
Just because you drool all over Cheney does not mean KBR does no wrong.
Remember guys it is a REPUBLICAN that is investigating this. You all act like Ted Kennedy is running things.
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Originally posted by rpm
Uno momento, por favor... Show me where I said punish the company. I said those responsable should be punished.
Uh, pot, meet kettle.
Just because you drool all over Cheney does not mean KBR does no wrong.
Remember guys it is a REPUBLICAN that is investigating this. You all act like Ted Kennedy is running things.
Look at the title to the thread. You assigned the blame more so than anything else here.
I just want to see an investigation completed without hanging anyone out to dry before due process.
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RPM,
Sorry, but I'm dying of curiosity. Are you equally eager to believe the accusations of Juanita Broaddrick against Bill Clinton? To me, they have about equal weight of hard evidence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick
If not, why not?
Regards,
Wab
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Look at the title to the thread. You assigned the blame more so than anything else here.
What company was she working for? Did you read the article I linked? Did you look at the title of that article? Now, try and guess where this title came from. Sheesh, ya'll are worse than arguing with women.
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Originally posted by rpm
What company was she working for? Did you read the article I linked? Did you look at the title of that article? Now, try and guess where this title came from. Sheesh, ya'll are worse than arguing with women.
Assuming the men accused of raping her are American citizens, would you have gleefully titled the thread:
"Tell Me Again How Great America Is?"
If not, why not?
Regards,
Wab
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Wabbit you are being a fool. You want to turn this into an Amerihater arguement which won't work because I'm not one.
I just read the Broaddrick link. 2 completely different sets of circumstances.
This is about sexual assault, not politics. Again, you think KBR is such a great outfit why don't you get your daughter a job there?
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And let the readers of this thread note, you refused to directly address either question.
Q.E.D.
Wab
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You want direct answers?
1. No
2. No
3. KMA
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Originally posted by rpm
What company was she working for? Did you read the article I linked? Did you look at the title of that article? Now, try and guess where this title came from. Sheesh, ya'll are worse than arguing with women.
I read it RPM. Just because the story is making an accusation against the company does not make it right for you to blame them too. Kind of along the two wrongs making a right logic.
Either way, this whole thing smells bad. I hope that the criminal investigation is completed before this thing is tried in the media.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Either way, this whole thing smells bad. I hope that the criminal investigation is completed before this thing is tried in the media.
I totally agree.
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Originally posted by rpm
You want direct answers?
1. No
2. No
3. KMA
So just to recap:
1. You won't believe Juanita Broaddrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick), even though I don't see any material difference is in their level of proof, and you haven't been able to enlighten me as why. The only difference I see is that Juanita Broaddrick didn't try and go for the big "payoff" lawsuit which makes her story all the more credible to me.
2. You would not assign blame by association to the Country these (alleged) men belonged to, because that would be obviously rediculous, but you gleefully try to attribute blame to a company of tens of thousands of employees who couldn't possibly have had any knowledge of any of this. If indeed, anything illeagal took place.
The fact of the matter is you desparately "NEED" to believe this. You WANT to believe this. Dan Rather? Forged documents? There is a danger in WANTING to believe something so badly that your natural rational skepticism takes a holiday.
A final thing to consider, why isn't she directly sueing the men allegedly involved? Even if they are judgement proof, there could be the moral satisfaction. And there is no arbitration contract with them. The way the Goldman family went after OJ in civil court. Why did she skip over the men allegedly directly involved and go straight for the nearest deep pocket?
Regards,
AK-"the fool"-Wabbit
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You are projecting what you believe to be my thoughts. You are incorrect.
You did get one part right...
AK-"the fool"-Wabbit
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Originally posted by rpm
You are projecting what you believe to be my thoughts. You are incorrect.
You did get one part right...
An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.
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Your just mad that I won't play your little reindeer games.
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Originally posted by rpm
Your just mad that I won't play your little reindeer games.
But wait... in your eyes they are already guilty.
Mac
I'd work for KBR... I'd let my Daughters work for KBR also. What is your ploy on "Would you let your Daughters work for KBR?". Would you let your Daughters work for McDonalds? Burger King? or even in the Military? Green Peace?
What is your beef with KBR?
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When did I say that? You guys keep trying to tell me what I said. This is what I said:
If during this investigation we discover a pattern to deceive and manipulate prejudical evidence I'd say we need to punish all involved harshly and swiftly.
What is my beef with KBR? I have several, but in this instance it's the apparent disregard of basic human rights of their employees. I think it deserves a further looking into.
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Originally posted by rpm
When did I say that? You guys keep trying to tell me what I said. This is what I said:
What is my beef with KBR? I have several, but in this instance it's the apparent disregard of basic human rights of their employees. I think it deserves a further looking into.
And the disregard of employees basic human rights are.......?
No more hearsay... what are the documented proof, links, anything besides hearsay of rights being disregarded?
NO!!! You do have a beef with KBR and you stated several.... name them.
No spins.
Mac
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Mac, I posted the link in the first post.
As for my beefs with KBR, no bid contracts, overcharging of services, endangering troops by providing unclean water.
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Originally posted by rpm
Uh, pot, meet kettle.
Just because you drool all over Cheney does not mean KBR does no wrong.
LMAO
Boy have you dialed a wrong number. You would be hard pressed to find anything that Cheney has done for me to drool over.
Remember guys it is a REPUBLICAN that is investigating this. You all act like Ted Kennedy is running things.
I believe you just said this was not political.
I could give a rat`s arse who is investigating it politicaly wise.
It`s the woman that`s making the accusations and changing her story as needed to fit the bill that stinks to high heaven.
Another Woe is me , now pay me scammer.
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adding some fuel to the fire...
US Troops in Iraq talk about Halliburton & KBR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXjCtkymRQ)