Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: crockett on December 11, 2007, 01:28:54 PM
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I've toyed with the idea of getting Track IR for a while but just have't broken down and bought it. I was wondering about 2 things.
1) When recording using the film viewer, will the recorder still record where you look? I assume yes but just want to make sure.
2) I don't want to wear a hat when ever I play, I also don't wear headphones on my head. Are you pretty much stuck wearing a hat or a set of headphones so it can track your movements? Is there any other way?
edit..
The reason I don't like to wear headphones is because I don't want the speakers on my ears, as I used my normal computer speakers for sounds. So I just wear mine around my neck and put the mic up to my mouth.
Maybe if someone knew of a good "mic only" headset that would help on the tracking issue.
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you could stick the dots right onto your forhead. :lol
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Originally posted by eilif
you could stick the dots right onto your forhead. :lol
yes that thought had already come across.. and ummm no.. :D
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It's wonderful, and worth every penny. Makes this #$% game even more addictive. :rofl
Also there are two speeds provided in the software which are switchable. I prefer the very aggressive one. In a fight it is essential that this thing reacts instantly.
The earphones don't have to be plugged in. I use a mic clipped to my earphones that plugs into the separate jack in the back.
I also use a hat. It's easy to get used to.
The learning curve is a bit long with TRack IR, and certain planes just don't work out as cleanly as others...(F4U...)
Be sure and program a button to switch the Track IR on and off at will. This will be beneficial in the transitional period.
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Originally posted by crockett
I've toyed with the idea of getting Track IR for a while but just have't broken down and bought it. I was wondering about 2 things.
1) When recording using the film viewer, will the recorder still record where you look? I assume yes but just want to make sure.
No.
2) I don't want to wear a hat when ever I play, I also don't wear headphones on my head. Are you pretty much stuck wearing a hat or a set of headphones so it can track your movements?
Well, you have to attach the reflectors to your head after all. How you do accomplish this is up to your imagination... but I am now used to wearing a silly hat ;)
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Originally posted by jazzman1315
The learning curve is a bit long with TRack IR, and certain planes just don't work out as cleanly as others...(F4U...)
That's the reason I almost never fly F4U'S. The rear view is totally messed up with TIR. I hope that this will get fixed soon, I presume it's rather easy to do that.
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Ahh that sucks that it doesn't show your views in the film viewer.
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You can run fraps over the game. So your avi files will be what ever you're doing in-game. Kermit uses this when he makes his films. And they look sweet... I'm way to broke to get TIR :(
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Originally posted by bnasty
You can run fraps over the game. So your avi files will be what ever you're doing in-game. Kermit uses this when he makes his films. And they look sweet... I'm way to broke to get TIR :(
Yea but Fraps makes vids at insane file sizes. A few mins of vid will equal a couple 100mb's when recording with Fraps.
You never know when you will end up in a good fight, so I have a habit of always hitting record anytime I start an engagment. It kinda kills the film replays if you can't watch it from the recorded views.
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Gave up on the trackIR. When it works its a thing of beauty, but it has an unpredictable tendency to screw up at the worst possible times (at least mine did). Also, its pretty much useless in a furball situation, however In a 1vs1 or 1vs2 its a significant advantage...as long as the views don't freeze or lock up on ya.
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Hence why I have four 500 gig SATA drives :)
I do not have a trackIR yet.... but if your getting rid of yours..... :D
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Just plunked down my money for one, and its on the shipping trail as we speak. More than I've ever spent for a game peripheral....makes the scots/irish in me break out in a cold sweat to hear about guys who tried it and gave up....
Lusche -- Since I like the Corsairs, I'm wondering how hard it would be to have a custom AH profile set up with track IR, and another without. Is that even possible?
I've also heard guys say their views go absolutely bonkers when bright sunlight streams into the room. Does that happen with the LED based headset tracker, or just the cute reflective stickies?
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Originally posted by TC31st
Gave up on the trackIR. When it works its a thing of beauty, but it has an unpredictable tendency to screw up at the worst possible times (at least mine did). Also, its pretty much useless in a furball situation, however In a 1vs1 or 1vs2 its a significant advantage...as long as the views don't freeze or lock up on ya.
Sounds pretty much like just a bad setup to me.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Lusche -- Since I like the Corsairs, I'm wondering how hard it would be to have a custom AH profile set up with track IR, and another without. Is that even possible?
You mean a setup which allows you to use you joystick hat for views instead of TIR when flying corsairs?
Should be no problem if you don't have used up all four modes (most people use two at most). I would suggest mapping Mode 3 or 4 according to your needs. Then assign "Mode 1" and "Mode 3(or 4)" to two keys on keyboard so you can switch with a simple keystroke.
Unfortunately this is not an option for myself.
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I fly the hog all the time (when I have time to fly) and use trackir with out a problem. I do recomend that you use a custom (read very aggressive profile) no matter what plane you fly.
And yes direct sunlight will make trackir freak out, I actually covered my windows in my computer room.
I think trackir is great, and I got use to it very quickly (with in a week), and now I can't imagine flying with out it.
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Originally posted by SIK1
I fly the hog all the time (when I have time to fly) and use trackir with out a problem. I do recomend that you use a custom (read very aggressive profile) no matter what plane you fly.
It's not any setup problem. "Agressiveness" will change just that, the reaction speed of TIR.
But the problem is a different one: The field of view when looking back is considerable smaller when using TIR. The reason for this: You cant put the head back enough, not as far away from headrest as when using a conventional view setup.
Please look at the pictures in this thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217831)
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I bought a Track IR 4 Pro last spring. I found it interesting, but I also found that I am just as efficient using two 8-way hat switches. So, I never use the thing. It sits on the desk collecting dust, along with the goofy hat and reflector.
It's an expensive experiment, so you if you can try it first, do so.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by crockett
The reason I don't like to wear headphones is because I don't want the speakers on my ears, as I used my normal computer speakers for sounds. So I just wear mine around my neck and put the mic up to my mouth.
Maybe if someone knew of a good "mic only" headset that would help on the tracking issue.
I use these and they work very well, and for cheap! :aok
http://cgi.ebay.com/LABTEC-LVA-7330-ClearVoice-Head-Mic-Headset-PC-Voice_W0QQitemZ320194601110QQihZ011QQcategoryZ80183QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Joker
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Originally posted by Widewing
I bought a Track IR 4 Pro last spring. I found it interesting, but I also found that I am just as efficient using two 8-way hat switches. So, I never use the thing. It sits on the desk collecting dust, along with the goofy hat and reflector.
It's an expensive experiment, so you if you can try it first, do so.
My regards,
Widewing
Interested in letting that "dust collector" go for a nominal fee?
:aok
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Originally posted by Widewing
I bought a Track IR 4 Pro last spring. I found it interesting, but I also found that I am just as efficient using two 8-way hat switches. So, I never use the thing. It sits on the desk collecting dust, along with the goofy hat and reflector.
It's an expensive experiment, so you if you can try it first, do so.
My regards,
Widewing
Yea that's kinda what I'd be worried about. Kinda the same thing as buying rudder petals.. I just wonder if I would use them. In reguards to my views, I just have a single 8 way hat switch and I have no issues wth view. I was just thinking TIR might add more depth to the game.
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I bought my TrackIR a couple of years ago and love it for all my flight sims, but especially AH2. I don't have any problems with any planes, including the F4U.
Concerning the F4U, what I did was choose that option in AH from the relative view position (or whatever it's called). Then, when I need to look back and around the head rest I just lean forward a little and then lean in the to the appropriate side. Works pretty good for me.
You will be surprised how much you move your head and you willhave to get used to NOT moving it so much (expect when you want to look around). This made my next sore for a few days, but after that I was fine.
Again, if you really enjoy flight sims, I highly recommend Track IR. It isn't for everyone, but with a little tweaking and a little getting used to, it will be a great improvement to your game experience.
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Originally posted by Blammo
Concerning the F4U, what I did was choose that option in AH from the relative view position (or whatever it's called). Then, when I need to look back and around the head rest I just lean forward a little and then lean in the to the appropriate side. Works pretty good for me.
Rear view with standard "Hat" sight
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8017/ahss402ly3.jpg)
Same view with TIR
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8016/ahss401tf1.jpg)
You can see the difference...
It's impossible to get more distance between the virtual head and the headrest when using TIR. It's reaching the limit earlier than the normal adjustable view.
It's not a limit impeded by TIR itself. And in other planes the effect is less noticeable or not there at all.
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Originally posted by Simaril
I've also heard guys say their views go absolutely bonkers when bright sunlight streams into the room. Does that happen with the LED based headset tracker, or just the cute reflective stickies?
The sunlight issue goes for any strong light source the "camera" can see. My wife lighting up a smoke 4 feet behind me would cause it to go nuts (she used to get a kick out of playing with her lighter once she found this out). The good news is that there is a filter setting in the software that allows you to effectively dim what the camera sees. I have had much better luck with the LED's than the hat reflectors.
There are a few good custom profiles out there, i suggest you try one or two. If you like I'll send you a copy of mine. Also, as another poster has mentioned, doing a ctrl+alt+del and setting the trackir to "above normal" priority under the process tab makes a BIG difference in performance.
I honestly can't imagine flying without it now, not to mention all the extra buttons i have on my JS since i don't need the views anymore.
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Originally posted by Lusche
It's impossible to get more distance between the virtual head and the headrest when using TIR. It's reaching the limit earlier than the normal adjustable view.
It's not a limit impeded by TIR itself. And in other planes the effect is less noticeable or not there at all.
If its that much of a problem you could a program like glovepie to map fake trackir axis to move your head forward - it'd be pretty easy to do.
Glovepie is a program with many uses, one is to use it to map VR headsets to 'fake' trackir inputs:
See here:
http://forums.vr920.com/Topic233-8-1.aspx
And here:
http://www.3dvisor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=889
(esp the second to last post)
Basically you'd create a formula that changed your head position forward/back based on head rotation. IE has your head rotated past 90 degrees left/right it would move your head forward.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
If its that much of a problem you could a program like glovepie to map fake trackir axis to move your head forward - it'd be pretty easy to do.
Glovepie is a program with many uses, one is to use it to map VR headsets to 'fake' trackir inputs:
See here:
http://forums.vr920.com/Topic233-8-1.aspx
And here:
http://www.3dvisor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=889
(esp the second to last post)
Basically you'd create a formula that changed your head position forward/back based on head rotation. IE has your head rotated past 90 degrees left/right it would move your head forward.
I was curious and decided to give it a try.. until I actually downloaded it ;)
I'm certainly not going through 35 pages of documentation telling me how to program that little tool with lines like "FakeTrackIR.x = sin(FakeTrackIR.yaw)*0.2 + sin(FakeTrackIR.roll)*0.4", only to (maybe!) be able to improve my rear view in F4U's.
If I have to disengage TIR in AH2, I would rather go back to my hatviews.
I guess it's way easier for HTC to correct that little flaw - just widen the movable space to the same limits the standard cockpit views have. Would really surprise me if that would be more complex than just changing a few numbers ...
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Build your own rig for your head, get a good webcam (read the english forums, camera thread) and download freetrack (6 DOF) for free.
Look here: http://n.camil.chez-alice.fr/index.php
and here: http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-5788390454421132360
Works like a charm, overall cost (depending on the tools you already have at hand), roughly 30 bucks.
Matt
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Originally posted by TC31st
Gave up on the trackIR. When it works its a thing of beauty, but it has an unpredictable tendency to screw up at the worst possible times (at least mine did). Also, its pretty much useless in a furball situation, however In a 1vs1 or 1vs2 its a significant advantage...as long as the views don't freeze or lock up on ya.
just out of curiouosity? what makes it usles in a furball? i'd think you could look around much faster than by using the hat switch?
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I think people who already have excellent situational awareness via their joystick hats take much longer to "get" the TrackIR experience.
I was using 2 hats (and a "shift key" to double-up the views) for *8 years* before I won the TrackIR I have - I would never have considered buying the thing since I was very happy and proficient with my views system.
But like I said, I got it for free, and gave it an honest try. I gave it about a month on the default software settings before disconnecting it and going back to the hats. I found I was still using the hats to easily locate cons that took me a few seconds of head-turning to locate with the TrackIR.
After another month passed, I tried it again, thinking about what I liked and didn't and made a whole new profile from scratch. This helped A LOT.
On this new profile, it took another solid two months before it became second nature. That it, it took a total of three agonizing and annoying months to break the 8-year-long habit of using the hats to look around.
It took about two months after that to de-program one of my two view hats to something else since I felt the trackIR was intuitive.
Now then. I think that to someone that never bothered mapping multiple hats for the perfect viewing system, the jump to TrackIR would take MUCH less time. And in fact, I think to a newbie who doesn't have any hat-viewing-reflexes, the jump would be almost instantaneous.
Having used the TrackIR since 2004, I really think it is a dramatic improvement over the hats - it just takes some muscle memory to make it feel intuitive. When you combine it with true 5.1 surround-sound headphones, the experience of having sounds smoothly orbit your head as you turn your head this way and that is sort of incredible.
Regarding views: I fly the Corsair most often, and I think that if you save your head positions properly, there isn't really a problem with rear views. I'll post some screenshots in a little bit.
-Llama
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Originally posted by Lusche
I was curious and decided to give it a try.. until I actually downloaded it ;)
I'm certainly not going through 35 pages of documentation telling me how to program that little tool with lines like "FakeTrackIR.x = sin(FakeTrackIR.yaw)*0.2 + sin(FakeTrackIR.roll)*0.4", only to (maybe!) be able to improve my rear view in F4U's.
If I have to disengage TIR in AH2, I would rather go back to my hatviews.
I guess it's way easier for HTC to correct that little flaw - just widen the movable space to the same limits the standard cockpit views have. Would really surprise me if that would be more complex than just changing a few numbers ...
Its easier than that, I'll have a play with my headset tonight and write a simple script for ya :)
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And here are my views (Use the "Crease" of the mountain behind the plane as a guide to how far you can see around the tail.):
Track IR Right Rear:
(http://www.iamthellama.com/trackir_right.jpg)
Track IR Rear:
(http://www.iamthellama.com/trackir-center.jpg)
TrackIR Left Rear:
(http://www.iamthellama.com/track_ir_left.jpg)
Also, don't forget that the views have smooth transitions from one to another: I can rotate my head a little more or less to see more to the sides to change my views in almost any direction.
Here's the keyboard views (again, note the crease of the mountain):
Keypad 3 (right rear)
(http://www.iamthellama.com/keypad_3.jpg)
Keypad 2 (rear)
(http://www.iamthellama.com/keypad_2.jpg)
Keypad 1 (left rear)
(http://www.iamthellama.com/keypad_1.jpg)
So, are there really greater blind spots behind the corsair with a TrackIR? I don't think so, after you play with head positions and save them.
-Llama
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Originally posted by llama
Also, don't forget that the views have smooth transitions from one to another: I can rotate my head a little more or less to see more to the sides to change my views in almost any direction.
(...)
So, are there really greater blind spots behind the corsair with a TrackIR? I don't think so, after you play with head positions and save them.
-Llama
That two paragraphs read alittle bit odd to me. As TIR movement and views are absolutely free-floating (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7HmpscWEnk) , how can you "save" a view? Actually there are no different views at all, technically spoken.
Seems almost like using TIR as a sort of button replacement?
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Your head is only free floating if you use the Vector Expansion Pack in TrackIR3, which is what I use. I guess TrackIR4 has the vector expansion built in?
Anyway, I don't use anything other than the TrackIR "view rotation" system. IN other words, leaning forward or backwards, left or right doesn't do anything for me; only turning my head does.
When this is the case, then the base head position upon which views are based is set by the arrow and pgup/pgdn keys in AH, and the F10 key saves the head position.
Any clearer?
-Llama
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Originally posted by llama
Your head is only free floating if you use the Vector Expansion Pack in TrackIR3, which is what I use. I guess TrackIR4 has the vector expansion built in?
Anyway, I don't use anything other than the TrackIR "view rotation" system. IN other words, leaning forward or backwards, left or right doesn't do anything for me; only turning my head does.
When this is the case, then the base head position upon which views are based is set by the arrow and pgup/pgdn keys in AH, and the F10 key saves the head position.
Any clearer?
-Llama
Yes, thank you for clarification. It's just like I suspected. You are thus basically using the AH2 standard views "enhanced" by TIR rotation.
Im using the full 6DOF TrackIr4 is providing me, and which is the reason I bought that gadget in the first place. So it's not an option for me ...
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Read this and it got me wondering how it looked more or less for llama .
I am not a fan yet of AH and TrackIR , as Lusche stated the back views don't work as well as AH views IMO . Plus with all the head moveing in and out and side to side , was quite hard to aim like I wanted . Others have learned how to get around this in differant ways I have read .
So I made a profile with just the top two movements enabled :) , well it's very nice IMO for me . You get the head movement that I wanted , with the head movements in AH view system saved too . It's almost very smooth , not quite but it's overall nice to use . I can also shoot pretty easy too :)
I coped it , I do have my head centering to my Combat Stick set to the bottom spot on the 4way on the joystick .
Here it is , maybe mine won't be "It sits on the desk collecting dust, along with the goofy hat and reflector." like Widewing stated .
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AHforstockviews
Sample profile for flight
60
1
1
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I don't have any problems useing hats in game at all now , but I found this was pretty interesting .
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Originally posted by airspro
I am not a fan yet of AH and TrackIR , as Lusche stated the back views don't work as well as AH views IMO . Plus with all the head moveing in and out and side to side , was quite hard to aim like I wanted . Others have learned how to get around this in differant ways I have read .
Yes we have ;)
The bad rear view due to movement limit is really only an issue with the F4U. On most planes there is no difference between hat view & TIR, only on a few (F6F for example) it's only minor. The main trick is to move a bit forward while centering TIR.
On the other hand, you gain a lot - the thick frame bars in 109K are no problem anymore. Just move your head a bit left or right ;)
If you experience difficulties at aiming due to "all the head moving in and out", you have just to adjust your profile a bit. A little more deadband, a little flattening of the curve in it's early part and there you go. While some people use a fixed forward view button when about to shoot, I don't do that. The reflector gunsights in AH2 really work like charm in that regard :)
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Originally posted by CAP1
just out of curiouosity? what makes it usles in a furball? i'd think you could look around much faster than by using the hat switch?
considering it increases your SA a great deal I find the idea of it being useless in a furball absurd aswell.
Ive been using mine for a while now and aside from the GAME BUG with the corsairs, TrackIR is about as big advantage as you can get.
yes, it does have a learning curve.. but its a fun one./
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Originally posted by Lusche
Yes we have ;)
The bad rear view due to movement limit is really only an issue with the F4U. On most planes there is no difference between hat view & TIR, only on a few (F6F for example) it's only minor. The main trick is to move a bit forward while centering TIR.
On the other hand, you gain a lot - the thick frame bars in 109K are no problem anymore. Just move your head a bit left or right ;)
If you experience difficulties at aiming due to "all the head moving in and out", you have just to adjust your profile a bit. A little more deadband, a little flattening of the curve in it's early part and there you go. While some people use a fixed forward view button when about to shoot, I don't do that. The reflector gunsights in AH2 really work like charm in that regard :)
hey lusche, have you ever tried using the "move seat foreward/back" toggle with TIR.. I have it set top my thumb slider on the X52..
when slid foreward you can still look around, but the gun sight stays centered (doesnt float around).
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Originally posted by Wingnutt
hey lusche, have you ever tried using the "move seat foreward/back" toggle with TIR.. I have it set top my thumb slider on the X52..
when slid foreward you can still look around, but the gun sight stays centered (doesnt float around).
No, because I dont need that.
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After reading this thread I can't wait to get my Track IR for X-mas. Got the e-mail today from Amazon that my IR and pro peddals with be delivered this friday:D . I was unsure about getting the Track IR, but it sounds like it can work real nice once its setup right. Maybe the wife will let me open it early :lol .
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Mine just arrived. I found it incredibly easy to set up, and pretty intuitive to use from the first. Following advice I read here, I set everything to aggresive.
In the 20 minutes I've used the thing, I've run into only 2 problems. First, I find it very difficult to look straight up -- it's almost a blind spot. If I tilt my head upward past, oh, 50 degrees above horizontal, I'm instantly transported to the rear view. Tried all sorts of fiddling but not much help. So far, resorting to using the previously mapped "up" button.
Second problem is getting a nice view of the 6. Once I tilt to look over my shoulder, I find I'm staring at a nicely armored seatback. I want to be leaning forward and looking over my shoulder to one side, but I'm having a hard time getting the TIR to do what I'm trying to tell it to.
Any tips or thoughts about these issues?
BTW Lusche...what exactly did you do to the default flight profile that improved your results?
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My camera is set up on the wall behind my monitor, about 2.5 feet away from me directly center. I'm using the hat clip.
Where do you put the camera when you use the LEDs since the LEDs are in a lower position on the left side. I'm having problems with that setup.
Originally posted by clerick
The sunlight issue goes for any strong light source the "camera" can see. My wife lighting up a smoke 4 feet behind me would cause it to go nuts (she used to get a kick out of playing with her lighter once she found this out). The good news is that there is a filter setting in the software that allows you to effectively dim what the camera sees. I have had much better luck with the LED's than the hat reflectors.
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Originally posted by Simaril
. First, I find it very difficult to look straight up -- it's almost a blind spot. If I tilt my head upward past, oh, 50 degrees above horizontal, I'm instantly transported to the rear view. Tried all sorts of fiddling but not much help. So far, resorting to using the previously mapped "up" button.
TrackIr may just lose track of your reflectors. You can check this in tracking view window: If you see one or more of the green reflections disappear, you have a problem. You can correct this by two different methods:
- Changing your camera setup (a bit higher) or by
- modifying your "Pitch" curve at the outer parts, so that the setting is even more aggressive as you continue to move your head. This will not change smaller head movements (or other axis at all) but will make it easier to look straight up (less movement required). You may have to play a bit with it.
(http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7430/ptchep8.jpg)
Originally posted by Simaril
Second problem is getting a nice view of the 6. Once I tilt to look over my shoulder, I find I'm staring at a nicely armored seatback. I want to be leaning forward and looking over my shoulder to one side, but I'm having a hard time getting the TIR to do what I'm trying to tell it to.
Do lean forward and a bit down (crouched position) when centering TrackIr. The results are twofold:
- You will have the highest possible viewpoint in cockpit when flying around. In most planes this is desireable, better field of view. When you now want to shoot in combat, lean forward again to properly see your gunsight. As I noticed I had always a (silly) tendecy to do that when shooting, it wasn't a big deal for me ;)
- When you now turn your head to check six, you will automatically have some distance between you and the headrest. Now lean only left or right a bit. (If you have some weird effects when leaning left/right, check Options->Preferences->View Options: TrackIr Object Relative Move in AH2)
Originally posted by Simaril
BTW Lusche...what exactly did you do to the default flight profile that improved your results?
For the most part the above mentioned tweaks. Another thing I did was giving the "Roll" axis some more deadband. I know many players are disabling roll entirely, but I find it helpful, natural.. and if I pay for 6DOF, I wanna use them :D
A final word: Give it soem time and don't be shy to tweak every setting till comfortable. It took me about a week to find out what's helpful and what not It all depends a lot upon your physical setup, your preferences and your own habits while flying.