Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WWM on December 11, 2007, 01:42:30 PM
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Just wondering what you all think a “good fight” really is. It amazes me to see posts such as “Nothing better then a good fight” coming from some individuals when it appears it is the last thing they want.
Is it a “good fight” to fly over a runway at 350mph in a FW190/P51 hoping to get that “kill” on a plane that is traveling 60mph in a straight path?
Is it a good fight to make sure you are at least 1000 over the top of anyone upping from a base if you can’t vulch because of the ack? Heaven forbid they get co-alt or I you can just run away in the P38.
Is it a good fight to meet a single con and then turn and run half a grid in the Fw190 until you have a friendly P51 at least 1.5 alt advantage dive on the chaser…Then I can turn around and get that “kill”
Is it a good fight to fly 1.5 above the good fights so you can dive on someone already involved in a good fight?
Is it a good fight to begin firing at D800 on the merge and if you miss just extend at least 1.5 or 2 and repeat. If you loose to much E then just run to someone that will help you get the “kill”.
I think a lot of people should post “Nothing like scoring a kill no matter how I do it”
To me, a good fight involves none of the above. If I get pissed off and do any of the above then I feel no satisfaction at all. I got pissed and ho’ed several times last night and tried to purposely ram those that were doing the above mentioned. I will do anything possible to try to destroy your plane after witnessing such events so that you can not land your “Good kills.”
P.S. I will also now shoot down every chute I see after some dweeb decided to stand on the runway and shoot at cockpits.....sorry to the innocent individuals.
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My idea of a good fight is a one on one against a guy who knows how to attack bombers, and, has the guts to stick it out and not run home just cause he caught a little shrapnel.
Some guys...:lol .. I know its them cause of the plane they flew and how far it takes to land. That and they have 3 or 4 kills to score, "probably after re'arming 6 times. " """ ""' " landed 4 kills in a P-51 for Pants On Fire". When the actual truth is he lost to 30 eny bombers and one more pass and I'd have blown him up. Most of these guys probably have years in the game so what do they care if their names in the Marquee one time less.
Now the guy who sticks it out until one of us is dead. Now thats a guy I can respect.
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Originally posted by WWM
...some dweeb decided to stand on the runway and shoot at cockpits...
What's wrong with that?
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Originally posted by 68Wooley
What's wrong with that?
Ya, what's wrong with that?
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WWM,
I am not trying to be rude, but this is the MA so deal with it. I usually try to keep my advantages and do some of the things you mention (like stay above the enemy). It usually deteriorates and ends up with me turnig with two to five bad guys on the deck. That is where it becomes fun. If I can score a couple kills before they get me or some how manage to get out and make it home then I am ecstatic. If you are looking for a good 1 v1 then you need to find a parner and dance in the DA because you will not find an even fight in the MA. Good 1 v 1's in the MA's are few and very far in between. If you look hard though you can usually find a good 2 v 1.
Spazz
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No comment on the "Whats wrong with that?".... :confused:
[/B][/QUOTE] because you will not find an even fight in the MA. Good 1 v 1's in the MA's are few and very far in between.
Spazz [/B][/QUOTE]
No offence taken. I know out of 300 players it will be there.
I am simply asking about the irony of people jizzing over how they "love a good fight" but yet do the above. And if so, what they really think a good fight is....? The person you just vulched or picked or ran from until your buddy picked him might have been the best fight of your year but now you will never know.
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My favorites are the 3 or 4 vs 1s that last a long time. Makes it even better when you shoot some of the guys down or make them auger to see a familiar name instead of a zip code.
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sounds like a good Saturday night to me :aok
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
My idea of a good fight is a one on one against a guy who knows how to attack bombers.
You mean 3 vs 1 if your in bombers.....
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Whats with attacking the 190 series?
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Originally posted by WWM
No comment on the "Whats wrong with that?".... :confused:
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I have to say that , it used to be alot of fun to bail over a runway and shoot cockpits, was funny as hell, haven't done that in a long time, last time i did someone tryed to run me over with a jeep, was really funny, i was out of bullets and he didn't shoot, just tryed to run me down, he rolled it, then came back and shot me.
ahhhh good times!
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My idea of a "good fight" is getting jumped by 1-2 nme planes w/ alt, getting them to blow their energy and position, and killing them.
I just get a kick of out shooting down an nme who "held all the cards".
That, or finding a worthy opponent that makes me work for it. Nothing like a good 3-5 min long white knuckle battle.
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Explore the other arenas. Early war has been fun for me lately. I might switch to Mid or AvA for a change. There's a lot of options outside Late War slaughterama. Then again, it is their 15 so if they want to spend 10 hours a day sitting in the tower, ground pounding, hording a base or fighting 1 v 1 and feeling satisfied, I have nothing to say about it. I'm having fun. :aok
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Typically for me when I actually survive a fight I consider a “Good Fight”. Although since I suck so bad that is a pretty rare event. But for a bit more detail to answer your question this is what I really like. Although again, it is extremely rare for me.
When I am flying Buffs, usually B-17’s because they can take a licking and keep on ticking. I really enjoy flying into a defended base/target and duking it out with the defender or defenders. It is especially “Good” if I can manage to kill the defender, hit my target and make it back to a friendly base. However this is not easy to do for me even though I am best with buffs so far I still suck big time in them.
When flying fighters, I typically fly the FW-190A8, or F4U1D. Being a POS stick still I am trying to work the 190 to gain skill in ACM. I figure if I can kill you in this when you are flying a La La or a Spitty then I am learning. For me I find it a “Good” fight to engage coalt or 1-2k below you and spin, roll, dive, cuss, spit until I get the kill. However again, since I suck in fighters worse than I do in Buffs this is an even more rare event.
I don’t like to HO peeps but will attempt it in retaliation if done to me. I consider it CS if your team outnumbers me like 3+ to 1 (me) and that is the only thing you can do. I have never purposefully rammed anybody however I have collided with a few of you. I don’t like either of these situations. I don’t enjoy them and I don’t consider it a “Good Fight” if they occur.
I actually consider it a “Good Fight” if I have looped, swooped, rolled, turned, dived and etc… for some period of time before you kill me. I don’t enjoy getting blasted out of the sky in less then 10 seconds. I consider that a “Bad Fight” on my part because I was too lame to last for any duration of time. This is a more common event for me since I suck.
Later,
KayBay
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i had a good fight the other night. I was rtb at 10k with 2 kills. an la7 decides to climb to my D'Hog. he was d 800 .i just hit auto climb and climbed to 15 k with him still on my low 6 at d 800 when i reversed. after a good 5 minute fight we eventually ended up at about 3k alt in a rolling scissors after he had taken out one of my ailerons.i had 2 snapshots on him after that at d 200 or less . dont know if i pinged him or not but with my convergence set to 300 not much of a chance for a concentration of hits. But shortly after he got me .i cant remember his name and neither of us saluted. I DIED.But it still was a GREAT fight!
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Originally posted by WWM
Just wondering what you all think a “good fight” really is. It amazes me to see posts such as “Nothing better then a good fight” coming from some individuals when it appears it is the last thing they want.
Is it a “good fight” to fly over a runway at 350mph in a FW190/P51 hoping to get that “kill” on a plane that is traveling 60mph in a straight path?
Is it a good fight to make sure you are at least 1000 over the top of anyone upping from a base if you can’t vulch because of the ack? Heaven forbid they get co-alt or I you can just run away in the P38.
Is it a good fight to meet a single con and then turn and run half a grid in the Fw190 until you have a friendly P51 at least 1.5 alt advantage dive on the chaser…Then I can turn around and get that “kill”
Is it a good fight to fly 1.5 above the good fights so you can dive on someone already involved in a good fight?
Is it a good fight to begin firing at D800 on the merge and if you miss just extend at least 1.5 or 2 and repeat. If you loose to much E then just run to someone that will help you get the “kill”.
I think a lot of people should post “Nothing like scoring a kill no matter how I do it”
To me, a good fight involves none of the above. If I get pissed off and do any of the above then I feel no satisfaction at all. I got pissed and ho’ed several times last night and tried to purposely ram those that were doing the above mentioned. I will do anything possible to try to destroy your plane after witnessing such events so that you can not land your “Good kills.”
P.S. I will also now shoot down every chute I see after some dweeb decided to stand on the runway and shoot at cockpits.....sorry to the innocent individuals.
Less Coffee....small doses of beer and or Tequila and you won't worry as much with it.
Seriously....DA is for those "good fights" which usually arent cause one of the particapants breaks the rules they set up....but...
MA is a place to find what ya can and deal with what you get into. I have had tons of good fights....
A squaddie and I ran into 9 109's one night....just the 2 of us...we lived and only 2 got away....
Same squaddie and I ran into 13 TEMPS and a Nik....only one TEMP got away and he was smokin....we landed a ton a piece....in HURRIS none the less...
I have had some 1v1's that lasted 10 minutes....great fights
Had some 2 on 1's....lasted and survived ....a few 3 on ones where I didnt fare so well but got 2 maybe...
Been alone and run into 10 sets of buffs in a Jug.....Ever try to dodge .50's from 30 buffs while your diving in?
There are TONS of things to get into....
I flew a P47N one day...100 fuel and droppies.....ALL the way to a bish rook fight that was basically the ONLY fight on the map....If i remember right it was like 7 sectors away....killed a few.....flew all the way home. It was fun....Only knight there with 10 rooks and 10 bish...they even teamed up on me for a bit...it was a fun sortie. Looking back to se like 3 bish spits and 2 rook whatevers not firing at one another...just chasin me.
Good fights happen all the time in the MA....HO's happen 99 out of a 100 fights...collisions happen alot....cherry pickin (which everyone including me does) happens at every rather large fight.....Running happens about 75 percent of the time.
What can I say.....it's the MA.
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To me a 'good fight' is one that keeps you on your toes and edge of seat for some time.
In it you need to utilize every bit of knowledge and timing you can come up with.. there is usually some sweating involved... and when its all over , win or loose you absolutely cant help but and talk to your adversary about the fight.
It's the ones that keep your adrenaline pumping. (and the ones you talk about at work the next day)
I have no hesitation mixing it up with 3-5 red cons.. but I will hate you if you run from a 1v1 to a buddy.
I recently have had some fun fights against Batfink in the DA I think I lost all of them but I had a blast.
also UB6UNDR in the furball area (I like the way he warns me on open channel " you ready FB?"
Most recently some guy named 'Airfool' whupped me repeatedly in the DA, because I don't feel like I preformed well in those fights it doesn't rank as high in the GF meter to me personally. (I'm not trying to take away from Airfool I'm saying my poor performance made for a poor fight)
to all you guys who like to fight!
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I had a fun fight last night. I was flying an IL-2 beating off a horde of tanks. A Knit CV was nearby. I saw a friendly involved in a fight with a Zero. The Zero was beginning to gain ground, so I flew over and vaporized the Zero. I then chased a Seafire a couple of miles towards the CV. I'm well off shore and few friendlies were nearby. That's when I spot a gaggle of F6Fs, F4Us and FM-2s coming in higher than me. At least six of them and they're salivating for my Stormovik.
I reverse towards our base. I start collecting Check 6's as they dive down and close on me. No panic tho as I tell the friendlies that "I'm just suckin' 'em in". The lead attacker is a Hellcat, but there all bunched up close vying for the "easy kill".
At 1k, I bank left a bit and horde all maneuver for a lead shot. At 600 yards, it's time to spring the trap. Stick over to the right and back.
The big IL-2 does a flawless, tight barrel roll. A firestorm of tracers whiz by. No hits. All six fighters blow by. I snap level and snap shoot. An F6F and a Corsair flutter to the ground missing a wing or tail. I split-s away in the opposite direction, build some speed.
A Seafire bores in from dead ahead. He goes for the HO, but I skid out of the way and take a front quarter shot as he goes by. Hosed from spinner to rudder, the Seafire explodes.
A Hellcat is diving in and I reverse and roll out of the way as his tracers just miss my right wing. As I avoid the F6F, a P-51 zooms by, but misses. I pull up the nose and fire. Off comes his wing. Just an assist... :(
Meanwhile, I'm alone with two FM-2s and and two F6Fs. I maneuver out of plane, working for an opportunity. I'm taking some hits, but gaining some angles. Finally, I get a good shot in on one of the Hellcats. His wingtip comes off and the pilot can't seem to gather up the damaged fighter. I fire again, and he spins into the ground. Meanwhile, two FM-2s are chewing me up from behind. I lose one elevator, but still ping up one of the Wildcats. Then, I take another whack and the tail comes off.
That's my idea of a good fight.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by RedTop
MA is a place to find what ya can and deal with what you get into. I have had tons of good fights....
There are TONS of things to get into....
This is why I like the MA's. Never know who you will fight and always a different plane. It's the ones, which seems to be a growing number, that purposely avoid the fight if they do not have a distinct advantage that I'm talking about. I don't mind jumping into a 2v.me or even 3 as long as they actually roll up their sleeves and fight.
The reason I am picking on 190 series is because it seems it has overshadowed the 51 as the runner. Spend 10 minutes climbing to their alt 6K away and then watch them run when you head for them. I've even upped another 190 so I could be in the same plane and they still ran. :confused:
As for the P38, the only person I have fought that actually wasn't afraid to fight co- was Corky. That guys is not afraid of fighting! (not taking anything away from those I have not fought)
To me, I guess a "good fight" is a fight that equalizes and turns into the edge of the seat best angle/best moves pilot wins. (This does not have to be a 1v1) I get no "rush" out of picking and running or running and picking knowing their is nothing down there with the E or speed to threaten my little plane. The excitement comes from the dangers of the engagement.
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WWM....
I totally understand where your coming from. Been here bout 6 years or so and things have certainly changed in that time.
But....Thers always letting em run...I have let more planes run away this tour than I ever have. Just hate chasin em. If someplace in that running thier nuts happen to drop and they come back....then cool. I'll fight and win or lose it's ok.
I had a 190 run 50 miles one day...after he lost is advantage....Me like the dummy I am chased him all the way back...just to watch him fly thru his ack and me die in it....like an idiot.
I got a ...Now I back....was polite...but in all reality I was absolutley STEAMING. Why did he refuse to fight 1 person? No idea.
Now I have been sitting on a few kills and get in over my head...low fuel..low ammo..or just flat outnumbered to the point I was GOING to lose...And I have run as far as I could to try to save my butt....But that is rare.
I have cherry picked....Helped squaddies that were in trouble more times than I could say. And They me. But , thats what squaddies do...and ANYONE who says differant is not being honest.
I have a wingman....pretty much he and I get in WAY over our heads alot...but we do o.k.
When someone loses thier advantage and just runs....or the first thing they do....like today...is HO....run 4k...turn....HO...run 4k...over and over....those are the ones that no matter HOW many 's I got....in my kitchen..where my puter is...I'd be tellin em loudly to get screwed...LOL
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To tell you the truth The best fight are the people who go to KOTH. I, myself go to KOTH and have a god time at it. In the MA though when you find someone who is in KOTH against another KOTH member you are looking at a good fight. The top score people are cherrypickers and realy have a hard time to fight the KOTH dweebs like me.
I would love to see WMLute and JimBeam fight again that was a good battle last week and Kuvo75.
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I'm with Widewing on this one. Beating back a horde is alot of fun.
For the "purist", a good fight is usually 1v1, no HO and an initial cold merge. This is dueling in the most strict of terms and really doesn't happen in the MAs very much. The #1 rule in the MA is "kill more than I am killed". I never plan on a cold merge. If it's in my sights, I fire. If he's on my squaddies six, I pick. If it's on the runway, I'll try to shoot it quickly. Flying into ack is pretty stupid if you are planning on a return flight. If you are trying to kill ack, then you're pretty much expected to fly into it.
Situations dictate the pick, vulch and HO. They are never really planned as such. I never know if someone will need to be picked because they are on my squaddie until it happens. Vulching is expected, to cap a field. If someone says "I let them get-up to be fair", with several friendlies around the field, it usually translates to "I missed him the first pass".
Then... there's the HO. My first priority is to survive the fight. If it's in my sights, I fire. Even if the shot is Head-On, I'll take it. You never can depend on the other guy being a gentleman and making a cold merge. BUT... if I want a "good fight", like WWM is suggesting, I go to the DA.
Widewing
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Originally posted by A8balls
Vulching is expected, to cap a field. If someone says "I let them get-up to be fair", with several friendlies around the field, it usually translates to "I missed him the first pass".
Have you ever flown into a base with no intention of your country capping, it in a fast plane (190), just to vulch 4 or 5 kills then run home?
I can honestly say I have never vulched and never plan on it until they list names on icons. Then I can guarantee it. :D I am a spiteful bstrd.
Redtop
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Originally posted by Widewing
I had a fun fight last night. I was flying an IL-2 beating off a horde of tanks. A Knit CV was nearby. I saw a friendly involved in a fight with a Zero. The Zero was beginning to gain ground, so I flew over and vaporized the Zero. I then chased a Seafire a couple of miles towards the CV. I'm well off shore and few friendlies were nearby. That's when I spot a gaggle of F6Fs, F4Us and FM-2s coming in higher than me. At least six of them and they're salivating for my Stormovik.
I reverse towards our base. I start collecting Check 6's as they dive down and close on me. No panic tho as I tell the friendlies that "I'm just suckin' 'em in". The lead attacker is a Hellcat, but there all bunched up close vying for the "easy kill".
At 1k, I bank left a bit and horde all maneuver for a lead shot. At 600 yards, it's time to spring the trap. Stick over to the right and back.
The big IL-2 does a flawless, tight barrel roll. A firestorm of tracers whiz by. No hits. All six fighters blow by. I snap level and snap shoot. An F6F and a Corsair flutter to the ground missing a wing or tail. I split-s away in the opposite direction, build some speed.
A Seafire bores in from dead ahead. He goes for the HO, but I skid out of the way and take a front quarter shot as he goes by. Hosed from spinner to rudder, the Seafire explodes.
A Hellcat is diving in and I reverse and roll out of the way as his tracers just miss my right wing. As I avoid the F6F, a P-51 zooms by, but misses. I pull up the nose and fire. Off comes his wing. Just an assist... :(
Meanwhile, I'm alone with two FM-2s and and two F6Fs. I maneuver out of plane, working for an opportunity. I'm taking some hits, but gaining some angles. Finally, I get a good shot in on one of the Hellcats. His wingtip comes off and the pilot can't seem to gather up the damaged fighter. I fire again, and he spins into the ground. Meanwhile, two FM-2s are chewing me up from behind. I lose one elevator, but still ping up one of the Wildcats. Then, I take another whack and the tail comes off.
That's my idea of a good fight.
My regards,
Widewing
^ :lol That's what I would consider a great fight, even though mine rarely go that well.
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Originally posted by WWM
Have you ever flown into a base with no intention of your country capping, it in a fast plane (190), just to vulch 4 or 5 kills then run home?
No Sir
I can honestly say I have never vulched and never plan on it until they list names on icons. Then I can guarantee it. :D I am a spiteful bstrd.
I have....and admitted it when I landed and got the attboys...yadda yadda's.....But I don't go to a base with "Vulching" as the intent...I go to start a fight....and ALOT of times...it works....sometimes TO good.
Redtop
to you...cya up I'm sure:D
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more than expecting everyone to change their attitude......i think what WWM is saying here is that it is OK.....its fine.....its not problem that you play the way you want to play....
...what bothers him is the same people coming to the forum and ranting about 'good fights' when in reality they couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
i tend to understand, but that is how people are. do one thing in the arena and bullchit on the forums to 'save face'.
but hey, nothing to lose sleep over, just people. people can get alot worse than this.
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My opinion will never matter, so the original question posed in the thread will go unanswered.
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I've given up looking for good fights in the MA. If it comes along it comes along. I used to waste a hell of a lot of time doing no fighting looking for a good fight.
Now I just say screw it and up where ever and kill until I get killed. Hell I even vulched the other day for the first time in about 4 or 5 months.
Just not as fun as a good 1 on 1 with a good stick, but I guess the MA is what it is..
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Now the guy who sticks it out until one of us is dead. Now thats a guy I can respect. [/B]
agreed.....unfortuantly, the dead guy is usually me lately:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Shuffler
You mean 3 vs 1 if your in bombers.....
No I mean 1 on 1. I dont have 2 other shooters in the bombers, and most times dont have any more firepower working then whats on a fighter. Add to that giving up so much speed and maneuverability.....
But so many dont know how to attack them. There's a few who are capable of making mincemeat of 3 bombers so it can be done. It happens to me once or twice a month. There are other ways to attack bombers then trying to crawl up their "6".
And the problem with fighting 3 or more fighters is that you can only shoot at one at a time.
Then we had the guy last night in the Spit. I was sitting in my bomb sight and heard guns going off. By the time I got back there he was peeling off and he ran, after only gunning one bomber down. Unfortunately thats what were in them for, to bomb. And Im always going into bases with big dars, and always have to choose to either drop or fight.
Anyway, I seem to get good 1 on 1s less and less.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
...what bothers him is the same people coming to the forum and ranting about 'good fights' when in reality they couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
If that is the case, how bout being a bit more specific? Using the scatter gun approach to make his point isn't accurate or very affective.
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I must be in the minority here. I seem to have at least one or two really good fights every time I log on and at least a few fights that border on great each tour. Obviously I get ganged, picked, Ho'd and vulched just like everyone else but in between it all are some truely excellent fights.
I had a couple of very good fights with Skatsr, Dedelos and really good 109 driver I'm drawing a blank on at the moment. Lost em all but continued pushing the A-20 rock up the hill a bit more vs the 'higher end" sticks. Also had some very fun moments with others (sunbat & acky come to mind) mixed in with a dozen or more truely fun hops that ended with me and my A-20 buried on the deck in a sea of red:)....
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Originally posted by Bosco123
Whats with attacking the 190 series?
maybe 98% of the people that up them, do not intend to co-alt fight anyone that sortie! So you get used to seeing 190's run from every type of engagement unless they can cherry or vulch!:aok
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Originally posted by WWM
This is why I like the MA's. Never know who you will fight and always a different plane. It's the ones, which seems to be a growing number, that purposely avoid the fight if they do not have a distinct advantage that I'm talking about.
WWM,
As I was reading through these posts another thought came to mind. I am not afraid of a fight and I don't mind dying, but I do enjoy flying to survive if I can and trying to make it home. With that said there are times when my flying could be perceived by someone like you to be a runner. For example, I was flying a P51D the other night and got mixed up with a spit8. We made a few turns and of course the spit started getting the advantage in the turnfight. I leveled out and kept my speed and extended so that I could continue the fight on my terms. This action would be perceived by many to be running. However, once I maintained 1.5k distance for about a minute I turned and dove into his advance. He of course tried to intercept by starting an early turn to come on my six in the dive. My speed allowed me to bleed his energy in a circle climb and then drop in to detach his wing from his plane. I do this a lot with a tempest also. There are times when you are faced with plane matchups that are just not in your favor and it is best to move on and find a different fight. I am sure the spits and La's would love for me to play their game and turn, but I don't fall for that.
Just my thoughts. Call me what you will, but I usually can hold my own in the arenas.
Spazz
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
If that is the case, how bout being a bit more specific? Using the scatter gun approach to make his point isn't accurate or very affective.
cc that NB, i might be wrong but thats what it looked like WWM was saying :)
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Originally posted by Spazzter
WWM,
As I was reading through these posts another thought came to mind. I am not afraid of a fight and I don't mind dying, but I do enjoy flying to survive if I can and trying to make it home. With that said there are times when my flying could be perceived by someone like you to be a runner. For example, I was flying a P51D the other night and got mixed up with a spit8. We made a few turns and of course the spit started getting the advantage in the turnfight. I leveled out and kept my speed and extended so that I could continue the fight on my terms. This action would be perceived by many to be running. However, once I maintained 1.5k distance for about a minute I turned and dove into his advance. He of course tried to intercept by starting an early turn to come on my six in the dive. My speed allowed me to bleed his energy in a circle climb and then drop in to detach his wing from his plane. I do this a lot with a tempest also. There are times when you are faced with plane matchups that are just not in your favor and it is best to move on and find a different fight. I am sure the spits and La's would love for me to play their game and turn, but I don't fall for that.
Just my thoughts. Call me what you will, but I usually can hold my own in the arenas.
Spazz
I think, in cases like this, extending out 1.5k-3k is reseting the fight, not running. Running is when you extend out of icon range or more. You have no intent on fighting this fight any more.
Of course, those in a slower plane trying to catch the faster plane will call out ANY extension as running because they just can't keep up.
Play the game the way you want, but if you start patting yourself on the back on the boards, expect someone to have a complaint on "how you play" :rolleyes:
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One of the best encounters happened a few nights ago.
Flying a BUFF I encountered a 190. I said to myself he will be easy to kill. I am pretty good at the guns. This guy knew all the spots to lay low and I missed my drop two times. I would nail him at about 800 everytime and he would nick pick at me just outside my range. He saved his base from being slammed shut. I never got his call sign but it was the longest none bomb flight I ever had. It also was the most entertaining. My son and I learned alot from this driver and salute whoever you are.
JUGMAN
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
If that is the case, how bout being a bit more specific? Using the scatter gun approach to make his point isn't accurate or very affective.
I don't think this is beating around the bush to much:confused:
Originally posted by WWM
I am simply asking about the irony of people jizzing over how they "love a good fight" but yet do the above. And if so, what they really think a good fight is....? The person you just vulched or picked or ran from until your buddy picked him might have been the best fight of your year but now you will never know.
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Originally posted by Spazzter
WWM,
As I was reading through these posts another thought came to mind. I am not afraid of a fight and I don't mind dying, but I do enjoy flying to survive if I can and trying to make it home. With that said there are times when my flying could be perceived by someone like you to be a runner. For example, I was flying a P51D the other night and got mixed up with a spit8. We made a few turns and of course the spit started getting the advantage in the turnfight. I leveled out and kept my speed and extended so that I could continue the fight on my terms. This action would be perceived by many to be running. However, once I maintained 1.5k distance for about a minute I turned and dove into his advance. He of course tried to intercept by starting an early turn to come on my six in the dive. My speed allowed me to bleed his energy in a circle climb and then drop in to detach his wing from his plane. I do this a lot with a tempest also. There are times when you are faced with plane matchups that are just not in your favor and it is best to move on and find a different fight. I am sure the spits and La's would love for me to play their game and turn, but I don't fall for that.
Just my thoughts. Call me what you will, but I usually can hold my own in the arenas.
Spazz
Anyone who has spent two dedicated months in the game knows the difference between extending in a plane that is not a turner so as to keep a foot in the fight and running if there is not such a great advantage that one can assure he can attack without any danger to his little plane.
I'm not splitting hairs. Last night I chased a 190 to 19,000 feet in a yak when he suddenly disappeared:confused: .
I chased a F4u 1.5 grids out of spite till I run out of gas. He saw my prop stop and decided it was time to attack. Finally get Co-alt with a picking Typh and time to dive towards base. So on and so forth. I logged after 6 sorties.
edit. OK - I'm sick and grumpy....maybe I should just quit posting. Just wanted to stimulate some conversation and maybe make some people reflect.
And Humble.. You could have easily outrun my 109 but you fought:aok
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Originally posted by Widewing
...A Seafire bores in from dead ahead. He goes for the HO, but I skid out of the way and take a front quarter shot as he goes by. Hosed from spinner to rudder, the Seafire explodes... That's my idea of a good fight.
My regards,
Widewing
The spitfire goes for the HO, then you do not and only fire on a high deflection shot? Where's the fight in that? That's just jousting. You did a skid to throw off his ho shot while you could take yours from a safer position. You never know when the guy is starting to realize your nose is facing him and he might pull off to avoid a ho, only to be ho'd by you.
You want a good fight, earn it by getting behind your opponents 3/9 line first, then take your shot. That's a good fight, and not just a kill.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
My opinion will never matter, so the original question posed in the thread will go unanswered.
LOL Karaya, 9380 posts of my opinion doesn't matter. You sir are a jokester.
<>
Spazz
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Originally posted by WWM
I don't think this is beating around the bush to much:confused:
Originally posted by WWM
I am simply asking about the irony of people jizzing over how they "love a good fight" but yet do the above. And if so, what they really think a good fight is....? The person you just vulched or picked or ran from until your buddy picked him might have been the best fight of your year but now you will never know.
Really? Beating around the bush? Funny, the "people" in the above statement would appear to be non specific (ie., a generalization). Seriously, if you didn't get it before....(in the immortal words of granddad Rosannadanna...) NEVERMIND! :D
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Originally posted by WWM
I am simply asking about the irony of people jizzing over how they "love a good fight" but yet do the above. And if so, what they really think a good fight is....? The person you just vulched or picked or ran from until your buddy picked him might have been the best fight of your year but now you will never know.
Really? Beating around the bush? Funny, the "people" in the above statement would appear to be non specific (ie., a generalization). Seriously, if you didn't get it before....(in the immortal words of granddad Rosannadanna...) NEVERMIND! :D
I'm not going to attack anyone specific. It's not me.(at this time) They know who they are. That's enough in my opinion.
Did my posts strike a chord in your song???
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Originally posted by WWM
Did my posts strike a chord in your song???
Yes actually. The way you feel about these "people" is the way I feel about folks that come here and toss around generalizations. Now...strum away, maybe your song will get better. :)
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I just have to ask. If you run into "these people" once and they run from the fight are they now a runner?
I'm wondering how often you've run into "these people" to be able to charachterize them as you have.
I probably do or have done everything mentioned in your post but I've also gotten into more than my share of fights, good and bad. It depends on my mood, my mission, my plane, the circumstances, etc., etc., etc. Which of my sorties charachterizes me (other than the ones where I die :) )?
Unless you fight the very same people every day over and over (I don't seem to) I would think such judgements would be hard to make. That said, after 3-4 run-in's I do begin to make a judgement.
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I am not specifically pointing a finger at any one person. There are some I could, but that is what PM's are for if I wanted to debate with "why you did that certain thing at that certain time", and no, no one owes me an explanation. That is not what this post was about. I know there are reasons this may be done related to what type of mission they are flying.
I personally chased a 190 after he vulched 4 kills off of an airstrip and their was no way possible for that county to cap that base and move troops in, however, he was good at it and no one could catch a shot on him or had a plane that was able to catch him. I had a 109G14 and was finally able to get close enough to put him in danger so he ran towards his base. We were on the deck and I was 600 out & out of cannons from previous engagements. I could not gain ground but was getting a few hits here and there with the ammo I had left. He finally ran close enough that a friendly F4U4 with alt was able to drop and gain enough speed that I had to break. This person was not a noob. I am not going to personally attack his name in open forum.
This is just one example of what I started this thread about. I am sure if asked this person would say he loves a good fight. Threads are developed to stimulate conversation. I gave examples of what I thought was not a good fight, in my opinion, and asked others to share their thoughts. IF that is a good fight in your opinion then fine. But usually when directly asked about that behavior after the incident you either get a change in subject that ends with"DA!" or you can hear the crickets chirping.
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Part of not finding good fights is partially my own fault, "and mind you I still find some good fights". I dont fly bombers in the stratosphere but am always in the 10,000 to 12,000' range, with heavies like the 17 at about 15,000'
Sometimes you find a good fight up there, sometimes you run into 10 bogeys like last night:eek: But I do restrict the fights I get into by flying bombers that high.
And why do I do it? #1, cause its a bomber. Not a Lanc stuka but a bomber. And a bombers best defense is altitude, that, and tactics. I drone a lot of hours away going the long way around a target so I dont get mixed up in the tonga line. I play the game to try and get to my target undetected.
12,000' is not a "fight avoiding altitude". Its a good medium altitude that lets you have success and find some fights. Ive shot heavies down with M-16s and quad 0.50s when they come into targets at 1,500' and I just refuse to do that.
Last night some great guys, whom I would have loved to fly with, had a big bomber mission going later in the night. When I looked at the mission I saw a 25% fuel load and right away knew what kind of mission it was going to be. I wished them luck, but, I dont fly bombers like that.
So, I guess Ill just keep on doing my thing and taking the fights when they come. But...when you see 26s, KI-67s, or B-17s, sneaking around to a target at that altitude its a good bet its me and I love a good one on one fight with a skilled opponent.
And we got some good ones boy. Ive ran into Pros in almost every kind of fighter. Of them all I'd say Lusche is an absolute surgeon when it comes to killing bombers. "Most" of the time when I lose its , at least partially, cause Ive done something wrong. But with him? You can do everything right and still lose.
The guy who knows how to keep the fight verticle, AND, knows enough to target one bomber at a time??? Now thats a guy a fight with I relish.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
The spitfire goes for the HO, then you do not and only fire on a high deflection shot? Where's the fight in that? That's just jousting. You did a skid to throw off his ho shot while you could take yours from a safer position. You never know when the guy is starting to realize your nose is facing him and he might pull off to avoid a ho, only to be ho'd by you.
You want a good fight, earn it by getting behind your opponents 3/9 line first, then take your shot. That's a good fight, and not just a kill.
I'm curious....
There is absolutely zero specific skill involved in gaining the 3/9 line in a fight outside of a same plane duel with a guns cold merge...and even then the concept of gaing the 3/9 line actually dumbs down the fight by removing legitimate mid game options.
To make a blanket statement regarding a given pilots intentions is ludicrous. The moment the spit (or any plane) points his nose at you he's creating a specific fight by taking his angle off to roughly zero (actually 180). In a disimiliar plane "merge" there is no reason at all to give him a free pass or grant a positional advantage do to misplaced "ettiquete".
It's often more skillful ACM to create a non tracking FQ or "T" shot then it is to simply pull the stick to your belly to "gain" an imaginary skill victory in a MA enviornment. If the other guy is gonna joust then sticking a lance in him is certainly appropriate:aok
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Not to mention that trying to get into a turning fight with the sole intention of waiting until you're dead six to shoot in a many vs 1 situation is probably not very smart. You do that, and chances are you're not going to get a good fight, or a kill.
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the perfect example is when 50% or more are on channel 200 whining about lame play....along comes batfink with 20 mins to play, needs a quick fight..
notice the whine on 200, asks anyone if they want a quick duel in DA.....no one wants to.
and the personal touch, just for NB -
Storch was moaning constantly, so i asked him personaly, he said he wouldnt go to DA with me if his balls were on fire and i had the only bucket of water..or something like that :D
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I bet i can win 5 on 1, me in b17`s. And teh dweebs in 262`s.
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Extending in a fast turning Spit is different than extending in a Pony.
Spits turn better! Stay in the fight longer! DUH
Ponies dont turn very good so you need to extend out to stay in a good fight! Double Duh
If you need further explanation, please ask Skyrock. I am out!
JUGMAN
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WWM, you forgot to add the guys in the 190's picking guys landing after running half a sector away. I got a whole squad that i thought played for the fight on my watermelon list.
I like the guys that de-ack the field so they can vulch then they fly over the field only to dive to kill the guns that pop or the one guy trying to up. :rofl
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I have had maybe 3-4 "good fights" since I began AH about 6 months ago. Everything else was just killing the enemy. Interestingly enough, both types of fights bring the same enjoyment! The best fights are not staged, and happen quite by accident. It is not the best idea to come on the boards thumping your chest about "good fights". What a "good fight" is seems to be open to interpretation, and this tends to open you up to the flametards. A good fight is best handled by between the pilots involved, and perhaps some friendly chat on 200 or private PM's on the boards.
Oink
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If it ends in a rolling scissors, it was a good fight.
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if the rolling scissors lasts longer than 2 complete revolutions.....you are equal pilots.
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Originally posted by zoozoo
I bet i can win 5 on 1, me in b17`s. And teh dweebs in 262`s.
So whats the secret when all 5 are coming at you from different directions?
But your just funning me right zoo?
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What is a good fight?
I have two types of "good fights". Anytime I land 4+ kills it was a good fight. Or maybe I should say a good "Flight". But that isnt really what you mean.
A true good fight is one where either it's a fairly even fight between similiar aricraft with similiar energy states at the start OR one where you totally beat the odds. 3or4 Vs 1 and you win for example. Or you fly your paper zeke into the middle of a huge furball and turn and burn for 10 miniutes and live to tell about it.
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I believe that the getting behind your opponents 3/9 line does mean more than taking an initial glancing shot on the merge and getting a kill. Everyone has their personal preferences/opinions and will fight how they choose. I personally will not take a frontal shot unless the person I'm fighting is attempting to or has tried to take a frontal shot. I know I'll continue to pay for it and I'll be pissed as hell at the person who did it but that's life.
My personal opinion for what constitutes a great fight is being able to defend yourself when you have the disadvantage (alt/E, turning, guns,ect..)and still come out with a kill. I like to push the envelope in the Mustang and P-40 and beat planes that I shouldn't be able to beat in a turn fight or energy fight. Sometimes I win sometimes I lose but majority of the time I feel that these fights are the best that I could ever come by.
The only thing that really frustrates me about the MA when it comes to fights is when your engaged and fighting outside of the strengths of your aircraft and once you get the upper hand someone chooses to pick you. Granted I'm fair game because I've left my self vunerable but how many times will you find a Mustang that consistantly engages in turn fighting with zeeks, spits, la7s, Yaks, N1Ks, F4Us, Ki84s and such? Why interrupt a fight in which one plane clearly has the tools to win and yet is being beaten at their own game by a less capable aircraft in that field of fighting?
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I think alot of flyers don't really understand that "vulching" is a kings sport, not ment for the mass's. :lol
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It's not "vulching", it's "supressing an enemy airfield". :D
Don't know how I missed this thread until now.
To me a good fight is 1-on-1, with no ganging, no BnZing, no running away, fight to the death. Won't matter if you die or win, it will ALWAYS be a fun fight.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
So whats the secret when all 5 are coming at you from different directions?
He puts on the loudspeakers and shatters them with deafening... squeak.
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If it lasts more than 2-3 minutes fighting within a 1-2K box it was a good fight win or lose.
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Originally posted by zoozoo
I bet i can win 5 on 1, me in b17`s. And teh dweebs in 262`s.
hmmm 5 262's vs 1 formation of b17's my bet goes to the 262's