Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on December 11, 2007, 06:43:13 PM
-
Want to see what happens.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313741,00.html
A stand is being taken. Not sure how it's going to work out.
Will they give in and hide, or stand up and if necessary fight?
IMHO Radical Islam will take over if they don't do something to stop them.
The choices seem kinda ugly.....................
-
Originally posted by wrag
The choices seem kinda ugly.....................
The choices? Look at his hair!
(http://www.foxnews.com/images/327214/2_61_120607_wilders.jpg)
Al Queda couldn't do worse than his barber.
-
Muslims and many on the left speak of the crusades with contempt. They often refuse to consider whether these centuries long struggles were justified. I think many may get a new perspective pretty soon.
-
I, for one, am glad to see this film coming to a screen near everyone.
It explains the bases of the issues at the heart of the "It's Like the Hydra" Thread, which has now gone to sleep.
TIGERESS
-
Originally posted by Tigeress
It explains the bases of the issues at the heart of the "It's Like the Hydra" Thread, which has now gone to sleep.
TIGERESS
:rofl
About time.
Everything from spot removal to dog toenail clipping.
-
Originally posted by Jackal1
:rofl
About time.
Everything from spot removal to dog toenail clipping.
Merry Christmas, dear! :)
TIGERESS
-
the fact of the matter is that the lilly white your-0-peeans will lose.. they have lost the ability to breed in sufficient numbers to even keep up with their needs much less compete.
They really can't stop the tide.. anymore than we can stop the tide from the southern border.
lazs
-
I would take a mexican over a muslim any day.
There will come a day when Islam will inflame our world here, and I just ordered 500 rounds from Cabelas.......wonder if that will be enough for my little piece of the action.
As far as the europeans are concerned...no more. They will have to survive this one on their own. They owed us big time and dropped us like the plague at the first sign of a screw up.
Let them have their cake.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
the fact of the matter is that the lilly white your-0-peeans will lose.. they have lost the ability to breed in sufficient numbers to even keep up with their needs much less compete.
They really can't stop the tide.. anymore than we can stop the tide from the southern border.
lazs
This is a popular myth ... but a myth nonetheless. It is a classical case of statistics giving the wrong impression.
The fact is that it is only the eastern European countries that are struggling with declining birth rates, due to their continued problems with poverty and mismanagement from the Soviet era.
In western Europe the birth rates have remained fairly steady the last 10 years; most western European countries have even seen a slight increase in birthrates since 1995.
More detailed statistical material:
http://www.prb.org/pdf07/TFRTable.pdf
-
Originally posted by Yeager
As far as the europeans are concerned...no more. They will have to survive this one on their own. They owed us big time and dropped us like the plague at the first sign of a screw up.
Let them have their cake.
We owe you nothing. And we wanted no part in your "cake". You reap what you sow. Reap it.
-
Originally posted by Viking
We owe you nothing. And we wanted no part in your "cake". You reap what you sow. Reap it.
I surely hope you remember that when the Russians decide you're encroaching on their oil fields and act defensively.
-
Originally posted by AKIron
I surely hope you remember that when the Russians decide you're encroaching on their oil fields and act defensively.
Only a lunatic would consider that scenario even remotely plausible.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Only a lunatic would consider that scenario even remotely plausible.
A lunatic or a Pole?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland_(1939)
-
The Soviet Union is no more. Please join the rest of us in the 21st century AKiron.
-
Originally posted by Viking
The Soviet Union is no more. Please join the rest of us in the 21st century AKiron.
It appears Russia is attempting to regain some of it's former glory. You go ahead and sleep easy tonight though. I know I will sleep better knowing you won't want our help defending against the Muslims or the Rooshians.
-
Again, only a lunatic would assume that. The Russian economy is improving and their military is finally getting money to do some exercising. They need it.
With all the military posturing the US is doing, we should be more worried about you ... according to your reasoning that is. Like I said: Only a lunatic...
-
Originally posted by Viking
Again, only a lunatic would assume that. The Russian economy is improving and their military is finally getting money to do some exercising. They need it.
With all the military posturing the US is doing, we should be more worried about you ... according to your reasoning that is. Like I said: Only a lunatic...
Since I'm not a lunatic I have to suspect you either have a pro Russian agenda and/or prefer to ignore the brutal imperialism of the Soviet Union of which Russia was the founder and leader. People like you will cause people like me to ardently resist cries for help should you be sorely wrong in your sense of security.
-
Russia is a democracy now ... and unlike another country I could mention, Russia/USSR hasn't invaded another country in more than 25 years.
I'm not "pro-Russia" whatever that means. I'm just not anti-Russia like you. Even throughout the Cold War Norway and Russia remained friends. Why do you think the Soviets stopped at the Norwegian border in 1944 instead of pursuing the retreating Germans? Stalin supposedly said (and I paraphrase) "Not one Soviet soldier shall trespass on the land of Nansen".
-
Originally posted by Viking
... and unlike another country I could mention, Russia/USSR hasn't invaded another country in more than 25 years.
Norway was in Iraq...
USSR / Russia was a little busy in the last 20 years fighting in it's own land and overthrowing the Politburo.
-
Norway never invaded Iraq.
-
Support for those who did makes you clean as a whistle.
-
We were there on a UN sanctioned humanitarian mission. We sent engineers and a field hospital. But thank you for admitting that your invasion was "dirty".
-
Originally posted by Viking
We were there on a UN sanctioned humanitarian mission. We sent engineers and a field hospital. But thank you for admitting that your invasion was "dirty".
Based on a UNSC Resolution 1511 and 1483... both sponsored by the invaders.
Wow! You are holier than thou! Don't sprain your arm patting yourself on the back.
-
And both successfully voted through by the UNSC ... including France's, Russia's and China's veto opportunities.
Unlike your invasion...
-
soooo... if the UN does it then it is fair and just?
lazs
-
You're trying to equate the illegal invasion of Iraq with the subsequent UN humanitarian mission. Nice try, but I'm not going to bite.
-
nope.. just asking you if you think the UN is always right and fair and just.
lazs
-
In all my years I've learned that politics are best debated on the internet. :p
-
Originally posted by lazs2
nope.. just asking you if you think the UN is always right and fair and just.
lazs
Always? Probably not.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Only a lunatic would consider that scenario even remotely plausible.
:rofl
Mac
-
Originally posted by Viking
Why do you think the Soviets stopped at the Norwegian border in 1944 instead of pursuing the retreating Germans?
huh, what Norwegian border did the russian army stop at?
-
Originally posted by john9001
huh, what Norwegian border did the russian army stop at?
The one just East of the Reichstadt, near the burning pit.
:D
Mac
-
Originally posted by john9001
huh, what Norwegian border did the russian army stop at?
Grense Jakobselv, the old Norwegian-Russian border ... after a short detour to Kirkenes.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Russia is a democracy now ... and unlike another country I could mention, Russia/USSR hasn't invaded another country in more than 25 years.
Chechnya does not count?
-
Chechnya is not a country. It's just a part of Russia infested with Islamic terrorists.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Chechnya is not a country. It's just a part of Russia infested with Islamic terrorists.
You should do your research. Chechnya was a seperate country in between the 1st and 2nd Russian Invasions. They were even recognised as such, albeit a short time.
-
Originally posted by Viking
You're trying to equate the illegal invasion of Iraq
:noid :O
-
Poor GShulz, he keeps getting back up. Reminds me of the ending scene of Casino.
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
You should do your research. Chechnya was a seperate country in between the 1st and 2nd Russian Invasions. They were even recognised as such, albeit a short time.
Recognized by whom? The Afghan Taliban government? :lol
Name one country that officially recognized Chechnyan independence.
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Poor GShulz, he keeps getting back up. Reminds me of the ending scene of Casino.
Yes, ridicule is the only argument you can offer. Thanks for playing. :aok
-
Originally posted by Viking
Yes, ridicule is the only argument you can offer. Thanks for playing. :aok
Negative. Playing what? Watch GSholz get whipped again?
-
Yes keep the ad hominems coming. It's all you can do. :lol
-
Good thing the Soviet Union is gone and Mother Russia is back, otherwise there would be murders/ disappearances of those who speak against the government...hmmm..never mind....the press would be controlled by the gover--- hmmm..never mind....the president would appoint a lackey to succeed him and return the favor by appointing former pres as prime minister...hmmm...never mind
-
Originally posted by Viking
Recognized by whom? The Afghan Taliban government? :lol
Name one country that officially recognized Chechnyan independence.
You did for me. You can ridicule it all you want, but they were recognised.
-
Ah there you see Bodhi, you ignorance has led you astray again. :)
The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan. In 1996, the ruling members of the Afghan Government were displaced by members of the Islamic Taliban movement. The legitimate government of Afghanistan was that of Burhanuddin Rabbani, later the leader of the Northern Alliance and allied with NATO during the recent invasion ... and they definitely didn't recognize the Chechnyan Taliban-allied rebels.
I asked you to name one country that recognized Chechnya as an independent state; the answer is that none did ... and Islamic terrorist organizations most definitely do not count. ;)
-
Ah there you see Viking, you ignorance has led you astray again. :)
Originally posted by Viking
Ah there you see Bodhi, you ignorance has led you astray again. :)
The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.
Except by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Ah there you see Bodhi, you ignorance has led you astray again. :)
I asked you to name one country that recognized Chechnya as an independent state; the answer is that none did ... and Islamic terrorist organizations most definitely do not count. ;)
They were recognised, as was the leadership of Afganistan. Believe what you choose to. I also know that Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and I believe the UAE recognised them.
As for ignorance, well, hell, I guess I ain't all that smart compared to yas Youropeans.... then again, I really do not rely on Wiki for my facts either... ;)
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Ah there you see Viking, you ignorance has led you astray again. :)
Except by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE.
Ahh thanks Holden. Did not scroll down to see that.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Ah there you see Bodhi, you ignorance has led you astray again. :)
The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan. In 1996, the ruling members of the Afghan Government were displaced by members of the Islamic Taliban movement. The legitimate government of Afghanistan was that of Burhanuddin Rabbani, later the leader of the Northern Alliance and allied with NATO during the recent invasion ... and they definitely didn't recognize the Chechnyan Taliban-allied rebels.
I asked you to name one country that recognized Chechnya as an independent state; the answer is that none did ... and Islamic terrorist organizations most definitely do not count. ;)
And there have been very good reasons why the Europeans have been silent over the genocide in Chechnya. The need Russian energy.
Russia a Democracy?:lol Thats a good one.
And the Islamic brothers of Chechnya? Most of all Iran? They need Russian arms and nuclear energy assistance. So they sold them out. I get a kick out of all the Euro-whining over our Iraq policy when the dictator Putin has decimated Chechnya without even a whimper from West Europe.http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=chechnya
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
They were recognised, as was the leadership of Afganistan. Believe what you choose to. I also know that Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and I believe the UAE recognised them.
Lol, yeah until 9/11 2001 they did. But being supported by a couple of terrorist-loving countries while fighting a civil war does not make you a nation. Unless of course you are willing to admit that the Taliban forces were legitimate soldiers of a nation state and thus subject to POW status when captured? No I didn't think you would. You know ... this is a strange turn of events that you people are actually trying to legitimize the Taliban as the legal government of Afghanistan. I think your government would strongly disagree. ;)
-
Originally posted by Rich46yo
And there have been very good reasons why the Americans have been silent over the genocide in Iraq. They need Middle-Eastern energy.
Fixed :aok
-
Originally posted by Viking
Fixed :aok
Iraqi genocide by Americans? There might be one or two on this board you didn't just lose the last scrap of credibility you had with but I kinda doubt it.
-
Seems you didn't get my point: There's no more genocide in Chechnya than there is genocide in Iraq.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Lol, yeah until 9/11 2001 they did. But being supported by a couple of terrorist-loving countries while fighting a civil war does not make you a nation. Unless of course you are willing to admit that the Taliban forces were legitimate soldiers of a nation state and thus subject to POW status when captured? No I didn't think you would. You know ... this is a strange turn of events that you people are actually trying to legitimize the Taliban as the legal government of Afghanistan. I think your government would strongly disagree. ;)
Unless Bodhi is from one of the three nations that recognised the Taliban as legitimate, of course his government would disagree.
You are very good at squirming Viking... you should run for political office.
-
Naw ... I'm far too anti-PC to be a politician, but thank you for the sentiment.
So Holden ... do you think the Taliban was the legitimate government of Afghanistan? Do you think that their recognition of Chechnya means anything at all?
-
Originally posted by Viking
Naw ... I'm far too anti-PC to be a politician, but thank you for the sentiment.
So Holden ... do you think the Taliban was the legitimate government of Afghanistan? Do you think that their recognition of Chechnya means anything at all?
Lets see... I am not a Saudi, a Pakistani, or a Emeratiy... Emmirite... somebody from the UAE, so no, they were not legitimate.
However that does not change the fact that they were recognized by three governments at least, and that when you said, " The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.", you were wrong.
-
Well that depends on my/your point of view, but I'll concede that point. However you did not answer my second question: Do you think that their (Taliban) recognition of Chechnya means anything at all?
-
I'm willing to recognize the pre 9/11 Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan. When they harbored Osama they effectively declared war against the US. They have yet to sue for peace and until they do should be fought and killed wherever they are found.
-
They harbored Osama since the war with the Soviets. The 9/11 attack was planned and the terrorists trained in Afghanistan with the support of the Taliban.
If you recognize their legitimacy as a nation, then you must also recognize that they are legal combatants and that you are duty bound to treat them as such per international treaties.
-
Originally posted by Viking
And there have been very good reasons why the Americans have been silent over the genocide in Iraq. They need Middle-Eastern energy.
Gscholz... man... wtf are you on about. Are you this delusional?
If your hatred blinds you enough to lie this much, then damn... I really feel sorry for you.
-
I already addressed that Bodhi if you'd just read on a bit...
-
Originally posted by Viking
Well that depends on my/your point of view, but I'll concede that point. However you did not answer my second question: Do you think that their (Taliban) recognition of Chechnya means anything at all?
Probably about as much as Chechnya's recognition by Georgia.
-
Chechnya was never recognized as an independent country by Georgia.
-
President Gamsakhurdia did briefly.
-
When? And please provide a source.
-
Lol, President Gamsakhurdia died in exile in 1993. A year before the first Chechyan war. ;)
-
He was only president for 7 months before a Russian sponsored coup outed him.
First non wiki source I googled (http://www.amina.com/article/chechen_holocast.html)
When the USSR split up and when the wind of freedom blew to Chechenia, too, many thought that the nightmare would be over. Ichkeria actually had some friends with understanding – the Chechens enjoyed great sympathy among many of the other nations that had been under the Russian yoke, and thus, e.g. Baltic and Georgian leaders supported the Chechen aspirations as much as they could. Only one of them, Zviad Gamsakhurdia’s Georgia, actually officially recognised the Chechen independence. Besides, the Estonian Prime Minister Mart Laar and Chief of the Estonian Bank Siim Kallas supported Dudayev and the Chechen government by selling all the rubles that had become obsolete in the Estonian monetary reform, to Ichkeria. The Lithuanian statesman Vytautas Landsbergis has several times caused anger among communists and Russians by defending the Caucasians publicly. Unfortunately none of the Baltic countries, despite their sympathy, could recognise Ichkeria, as they were too hardly pressured by Russia and the West.
-
Originally posted by Viking
They harbored Osama since the war with the Soviets. The 9/11 attack was planned and the terrorists trained in Afghanistan with the support of the Taliban.
If you recognize their legitimacy as a nation, then you must also recognize that they are legal combatants and that you are duty bound to treat them as such per international treaties.
It was the Soviets who invaded Afghanistan.. the Soviets did not invade Taliban but the entire Nation of Afghanistan. Your spin on this didn't work.
Next spin....
The undersigned Plenipotentiaries of the Governments represented at the Diplomatic Conference held at Geneva from April 21 to August 12, 1949, for the purpose of revising the Convention concluded at Geneva on July 27, 1929, relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, have agreed as follows:
International Humanitarian Law (http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/7c4d08d9b287a42141256739003e636b/6fef854a3517b75ac125641e004a9e68#top)
Try reading this between your spins.
This also has a list of the Nations that signed the Geneva Convention. Sorry if the Taliban are a "Terrorist" Ideology and not a recognized Nation.
Next spin is you'll soon whine that they are denied their rights under the U.S. Constitution. Maybe that's why it's called the "U.S. Constitution"?
Viking spins faster than a childs 5 penny top.
Mac
-
Originally posted by Viking
Name one country that officially recognized Chechnyan independence.
Afganistan
Originally posted by Viking
I asked you to name one country that recognized Chechnya as an independent state; the answer is that none did ... and Islamic terrorist organizations most definitely do not count.
Georgia
Originally posted by Viking
Lol, President Gamsakhurdia died in exile in 1993. A year before the first Chechyan war. ;)
There was a time constraint on your challenge?
What limits are next? Please publish a full text of the rules of your game.
-
Originally posted by AWMac
It was the Soviets who invaded Afghanistan.. the Soviets did not invade Taliban but the entire Nation of Afghanistan. Your spin on this didn't work.
What has that got to do with anything? And no, the USSR did not invade Afghanistan. The Afghan government requested help from the Soviets to fight the Taliban rebels. The USSR did no more invade Afghanistan than America invaded Vietnam.
Originally posted by AWMac
This also has a list of the Nations that signed the Geneva Convention. Sorry if the Taliban are a "Terrorist" Ideology and not a recognized Nation.
Ah, so you agree with me that the Taliban is not a legitimate government. You truely are an idiot Mac.
-
Please publish a full text of the rules of your game.
Viking is automatically allowed to offer spins as true statements.
Your answers cannot coincide with a spin, no matter how correct the answer may be.
If for any reason Vikings last spin feels threatened he is then allowed a free spin.
You may not answer a spin with facts.
Viking is always right, your information or true facts are null and void.
:D
Mac
-
Originally posted by Viking
What has that got to do with anything? And no, the USSR did not invade Afghanistan. The Afghan government requested help from the Soviets to fight the Taliban rebels. The USSR did no more invade Afghanistan than America invaded Vietnam.
Man I wish I could find some of the Meds you are on.
Originally posted by Viking
Ah, so you agree with me that the Taliban is not a legitimate government. You truely are an idiot Mac.
Man I just quoted yer own spin. Having problems keeping your spins together now?
Back off the Meds a lil.
Mac
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Afganistan
Not the legal government of Afghanistan, recognized by the west and the UN. Only the Chechnyan terrorist allies in the Taliban.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Georgia
There was a time constraint on your challenge?
Bodhi set the time as between the first and second Chechnyan war, but I would suggest at least limiting yourself to when the Chechnyans were actually not under Russian control. If some eastern-bloc president recognize California as a separate country it doesn't make it so.
-
Originally posted by AWMac
Man I just quoted yer own spin. Having problems keeping your spins together now?
Back off the Meds a lil.
Mac
I have been arguing this whole thread that the Taliban are NOT a legitimate government, but only a terrorist organization. The "spin" you see is only in your head; you're just too stupid to understand it.
-
Originally posted by AWMac
Man I wish I could find some of the Meds you are on.
You seen to do more than fine with the ones you're on now.
Quotes from wiki:
"The Soviet war in Afghanistan also known as the Soviet-Afghan War was a nine-year conflict involving Soviet forces supporting the Marxist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) government against the largely Islamic fundamentalist Mujahideen insurgents. The latter group found support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and other Muslim nations in the context of the Cold War. This conflict was concurrent to the 1979 Iranian Revolution and the Iran-Iraq War."
"The Afghan government repeatedly requested the introduction of Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the spring and summer of 1979. They requested Soviet troops to provide security and to assist in the fight against the Mujahideen rebels. On 14 April 1979 the Afghan government requested that the USSR send 15 to 20 helicopters with their crews to Afghanistan, and on 16 June the Soviet government responded and sent a detachment of tanks, BMPs, and crews to guard the government in Kabul and to secure the Bagram and Shindand airfields. In response to this request, an airborne battalion, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel A. Lomakin, arrived at the Bagram Air Base on 7 July. They arrived without their combat gear disguised as technical specialists. They were the personal bodyguards for President Taraki. The paratroopers were directly subordinated to the senior Soviet military adviser and did not interfere in Afghan politics.
After a month, the Afghan requests were no longer for individual crews and subunits, but were for regiments and larger units. On 19 July, the Afghan government requested that two motorized rifle divisions be sent to Afghanistan. The following day, they requested an airborne division in addition to the earlier requests. They repeated these requests and variants to these requests over the following months right up to December 1979. However, the Soviet government was in no hurry to grant these requests."
Do you deny any of this?
-
Bodhi writes the rules on your challenges?
I hereby challenge anyone to list anything good that Norway or any Norwegian or anyone of Norwegian decent has ever done that is in any way good or helpful to mankind. *
I reserve the right to change rules, make arbitrary decisions on qualifications, and impose restrictions decided upon by Holden McG LLC or Bodhi
-
I haven't made any rules what so ever. However I do reserve the right to dismiss any information I deem irrelevant or false. Such as calling a terrorist organization a legal government of a country. I dismiss that out of hand.
-
From the beginning of this thread to the end I'm still trying to figure out what the Taliban in Afghanistan has to do with the inpending Soviet captures of Norwegian offshore oil platforms.
:huh
Mac
-
No ... you don't understand very much of anything do you AWMac?
-
all your oil platform are belong to us.
-
Actually some of them might be. At least a lot of them are owned by international oil companies like Shell.
-
Originally posted by Viking
I haven't made any rules what so ever.
Yet you hold to a rule suggested by Bodhi.
Originally posted by Viking
If some eastern-bloc president recognize California as a separate country it doesn't make it so.
But it does make it so that they would be considered as recognized.
Originally posted by Viking
Name one country that officially recognized Chechnyan independence.
Yeah see? You asked for somebody recognizing, not that it was independant, just that somebody recognized it.
Nobody taking up my challenge? I'm disappointed.:(
:(
-
I asked for a country, not some terrorist rebel organization in a country. Big difference.
-
Originally posted by Viking
But being supported by a couple of terrorist-loving countries while fighting a civil war does not make you a nation.
And with that statement you dismissed Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the UAE as being irrelevant.
-
I know it must be difficult for you to lose an argument with me ... I can sympathize, but now you're just being pathetic.
Edit: And yes, to me at least they are indeed irrelevant.
-
Tell me Holden, do you actually support the Chechnyans and the Taliban?
-
Does the multitude of the Russians that escaped, er, left after the wall was torn down to go to America count as a Russian invasion of America?
-
Yeah, could be. Depends on your definition of invasion.
-
Originally posted by Viking
No ... you don't understand very much of anything do you AWMac?
I understand that you have a deep resentment towards Americans until a Global Crisis threatens you directly. Then you'll beg for America to come save you.
Mac
-
As usual you don't understand at all. Perhaps if I were to write everything exactly opposite to what I actually mean you will misunderstand me correctly? Naw ... too much work.
-
We can start with your apology.
Mac
-
Lol, I don't think so.
-
Originally posted by Viking
Lol, I don't think so.
It was wrags thread you hijacked.
You at least owe him an apology... then you can work on the others.
Mac
-
Originally posted by Viking
I know it must be difficult for you to lose an argument with me
We may never know if that is true or not.
At least it can`t be discerned up to this point.
-
This small Northern European nation was invaded by Germany in April 1940. On June 10, 1940, Norway surrendered.
About 5,000 Norwegian soldiers had been lost.
World War II Reference Library
World War II by Nation | World War II Timeline | World War II Index/Glossary
Link (http://www.worldwariihistory.info/in/Norway.html)
The Invasion of Norway April 9 - May 9, 1940
Norway ForumNorway Image GalleryNorway Video GalleryNorway Internal Links
Norway Internet Links
Today's News
About Norway
Norway Bibliography
The Phony War ended on the night of April 8, 1940 when British warships mined the fjords of Norway to prevent Swedish iron ore from reaching Germany. The Norwegian Ambassador to London protested, but within hours the Allies learned of a massive German thrust through Denmark that was already landing in Norway. Denmark surrendered the same day to save herself, losing only a few soldiers.
What seemed like an incredibly swift response to Britain’s Norwegian minelaying was actually the culmination of months of planning. German paratroops secured airfields for air transports, and the German Navy sortied to cover destroyers with ski troops. A German landing in Oslo was driven off when the command heavy cruiser Blücher was sunk in the harbor, buying a short reprieve for the Norwegian government. But German merchant ships loaded with supplies and left in the fjords before the invasion sustained the rapidly moving land forces coming up from the south. The German paratroops were especially stunning to the Allies, who did not have anything like those formations at that time. Tough fighters, they would hold until relieved by the advancing ground forces.
British and French troops were hastily assembled and sent to Norway. Almost as soon as they landed they were forced to turn around or surrender, as the Germans swiftly moved through the country. Norwegian King Haakon VII left the country and set up a Government-in-exile in London, financed with Royal Norwegian gold. By the time of the invasion of France in May 1940, Norway had surrendered.
The French and the British, both reeling form the defeat at Norway, pledged not make a separate peace with Germany. This agreement would have serious implications two months later after the Germans invaded France.
During the battle, the German Kriegsmarine lost half of their destroyers and several cruisers. Their surface fleet was no longer able to confront the British Royal Navy. In time, more German surface fleets would lunch, and the ships damaged in Norway would be repaired.
But these ships would not be ready in time to cover the invasion of Britain. Operation Seelöwe (Sea Lion) would not proceed — the needed escorts were on the bottom of Narvik Harbor.
Norway was an important source of resources for Germany, and an operational base for U-boats throughout the war. Her surface units would hide in the fjords to escape Allied detection and bombing. The German heavy water research, a prerequisite for an atomic bomb, was based in Norway. A Norwegian SS unit was formed and fought on the Eastern Front.
Many Norwegian naval units escaped to Britain and served with distinction throughout the war. Norwegian resistance cells were difficult for the Germans to track in the snowy forests, and gave important intelligence to the Allies.
The Allies’ efforts to force Hitler into thinking that an invasion of Norway was imminent kept large forces tied down in Norway, preventing them from assisting their country as the Red Army and the British and the Americans invaded Germany from the East and West.
Hmmmmm... History may soon repeat itself with the Soviets taking Norway.
Mac
-
C'mon Viking...
We await your spin on this.
Mac
-
Lol, talk about a hijack AWMac! Don't you owe somebody an apology now? :lol
Btw. Norway never surrendered in WWII. :)
-
Originally posted by Jackal1
We may never know if that is true or not.
At least it can`t be discerned up to this point.
Aww C'mon, don't be such a sore loser. ;)
-
Well Holden, do you actually support the Chechnyans and/or the Taliban?
-
Originally posted by Viking
Lol, talk about a hijack AWMac! Don't you owe somebody an apology now? :lol
Btw. Norway never surrendered in WWII. :)
On June 10, 1940, Norway surrendered.
Hate to break yer heart... I don't write History I just read it.
Waiting for the apologies to begin.
Mac
-
Battle for Norway (9 April – June 10 1940):
• Norwegian mentally & physically unprepared.
• See account of Sigrid Undset regarding escape through
Norway during 1st 3 weeks of war.
• Troops unprepared and ill-equipped.
• After 3weeks of fighting, Southern Norway surrenders.
• Battle continued in Northern Norway; where the
Germans were held back at Narvik
• Norwegian Army assisted by (poorly organized) British,
French and some Polish troops.
• Late May 1940; German victories in Northern France,
meant evacuation of Allied troops from Norway
(Germany had invaded France May 10th)
• June 10, 1940, Norway surrenders to Germany
(King Haakon and his ministers fled to London 7 June;
Government in Exile established by “Elverum Mandate”.
Naw Norway never surrendered once... not once....twice.
Mac
-
Norway did not surrender, they gave the Germans a welcoming party.
-
That thought crossed my mind also...
Mac
-
Originally posted by Viking
I know it must be difficult for you to lose an argument with me ... I can sympathize, but now you're just being pathetic.
Edit: And yes, to me at least they are indeed irrelevant.
Sorry for being away, I had something important to do.
Lose an argument?
You asked for somebody who recognized Chechnya, and I listed two. You asked for somebody who recognized the Taliban, I gave you three.
Holden 5, Viking 0
Unless we are playing golf, high score wins.
Whether I support the Taliban, Chechnya, or the present government of Bangladesh is indeed irrelevant to the fact that I gave you five government recognitions that you thought didn't exist.
That you do not believe in them does not change the facts.
You thinking Saudi Arabia is irrelevant is truely pathetic.
-
Sorry I have to ruin your fun gents. ;)
"German ships sailed up the fjord leading to Oslo, reaching the Drøbak Narrows (Drøbaksundet). In the early morning of April 9, the gunners at Oscarsborg Fortress fired on the leading ship, the Blücher, which had been illuminated by spotlights at about 0515hrs. Within two hours, the ship, unable to maneuver in the narrow fjord, was sunk with about 600-1,000 men. The now obvious threat from the fortress delayed the rest of the naval invasion group long enough for the Royal family and Parliament to be evacuated, along with the national treasury. As a result, Norway never surrendered to the Germans, leaving the Quisling government illegitimate and permitting Norway to participate as an Ally in the war, rather than as a conquered nation."
Linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Weser%C3%BCbung)
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Sorry for being away, I had something important to do.
No need to apologize. I quite understand.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You asked for somebody who recognized Chechnya, and I listed two.
I asked for two countries[/b] who officialy[/b] recogniced Chechnyan independence[/b]. You provided a deposed president and a terrorist organization.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You asked for somebody who recognized the Taliban, I gave you three.
Holden 5, Viking 0
Yeah, and I conceded that point on a previous page of this thread.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Whether I support the Taliban, Chechnya, or the present government of Bangladesh is indeed irrelevant …
Sure, but the question remains: Do you support the Chechnyans and/or Taliban? Is there a reason you won’t answer this simple question?
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You thinking Saudi Arabia is irrelevant is truely pathetic.
You actually care what their government thinks? Wow.
Now let’s tally the score shall we:
Originally posted by lazs2
the fact of the matter is that the lilly white your-0-peeans will lose.. they have lost the ability to breed in sufficient numbers to even keep up with their needs much less compete.
They really can't stop the tide.. anymore than we can stop the tide from the southern border.
lazs
Originally posted by Viking
This is a popular myth ... but a myth nonetheless. It is a classical case of statistics giving the wrong impression.
The fact is that it is only the eastern European countries that are struggling with declining birth rates, due to their continued problems with poverty and mismanagement from the Soviet era.
In western Europe the birth rates have remained fairly steady the last 10 years; most western European countries have even seen a slight increase in birthrates since 1995.
More detailed statistical material:
http://www.prb.org/pdf07/TFRTable.pdf
Viking score = 1
Originally posted by Viking
Russia is a democracy now ... and unlike another country I could mention, Russia/USSR hasn't invaded another country in more than 25 years.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Norway was in Iraq...
Originally posted by Viking
Norway never invaded Iraq.
Viking score = 2
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Support for those who did makes you clean as a whistle.
Originally posted by Viking
We were there on a UN sanctioned humanitarian mission. We sent engineers and a field hospital. But thank you for admitting that your invasion was "dirty".
Viking score = 3
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Based on a UNSC Resolution 1511 and 1483... both sponsored by the invaders.
Originally posted by Viking
And both successfully voted through by the UNSC ... including France's, Russia's and China's veto opportunities.
Unlike your invasion...
Viking score = 4
Originally posted by Viking
I'm not "pro-Russia" whatever that means. I'm just not anti-Russia like you. Even throughout the Cold War Norway and Russia remained friends. Why do you think the Soviets stopped at the Norwegian border in 1944 instead of pursuing the retreating Germans? Stalin supposedly said (and I paraphrase) "Not one Soviet soldier shall trespass on the land of Nansen".
Originally posted by john9001
huh, what Norwegian border did the russian army stop at?
Originally posted by Viking
Grense Jakobselv, the old Norwegian-Russian border ... after a short detour to Kirkenes.
Viking score = 5
Originally posted by Bodhi
Chechnya does not count?
Originally posted by Viking
Chechnya is not a country. It's just a part of Russia infested with Islamic terrorists.
Originally posted by Bodhi
You should do your research. Chechnya was a seperate country in between the 1st and 2nd Russian Invasions. They were even recognised as such, albeit a short time.
Originally posted by Viking
Recognized by whom? The Afghan Taliban government? :lol
Name one country that officially recognized Chechnyan independence.
No country officially recognized Chechnyan independence.
Viking score = 6
Originally posted by Rich46yo
And there have been very good reasons why the Europeans have been silent over the genocide in Chechnya. The need Russian energy.
Originally posted by Viking
Fixed :aok
Originally posted by AKIron
Iraqi genocide by Americans? There might be one or two on this board you didn't just lose the last scrap of credibility you had with but I kinda doubt it.
Originally posted by Bodhi
Gscholz... man... wtf are you on about. Are you this delusional?
If your hatred blinds you enough to lie this much, then damn... I really feel sorry for you.
Originally posted by Viking
Seems you didn't get my point: There's no more genocide in Chechnya than there is genocide in Iraq.
There is no genocide in Chechnya, nor in Iraq. Not yet at least.
Viking score = 7
Originally posted by AKIron
I'm willing to recognize the pre 9/11 Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan. When they harbored Osama they effectively declared war against the US. They have yet to sue for peace and until they do should be fought and killed wherever they are found.
Originally posted by Viking
They harbored Osama since the war with the Soviets. The 9/11 attack was planned and the terrorists trained in Afghanistan with the support of the Taliban.
If you recognize their legitimacy as a nation, then you must also recognize that they are legal combatants and that you are duty bound to treat them as such per international treaties.
Viking score = 8
Originally posted by AWMac
It was the Soviets who invaded Afghanistan.. the Soviets did not invade Taliban but the entire Nation of Afghanistan.
Originally posted by Viking
What has that got to do with anything? And no, the USSR did not invade Afghanistan. The Afghan government requested help from the Soviets to fight the Taliban rebels. The USSR did no more invade Afghanistan than America invaded Vietnam.
Viking score = 9
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Afganistan
Georgia
Originally posted by Viking
Not the legal government of Afghanistan, recognized by the west and the UN. Only the Chechnyan terrorist allies in the Taliban.
Originally posted by Viking
I asked for a country, not some terrorist rebel organization in a country. Big difference.
Originally posted by Viking
Lol, President Gamsakhurdia died in exile in 1993. A year before the first Chechyan war. ;)
Viking score = 10
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Bodhi writes the rules on your challenges?
Originally posted by Viking
I haven't made any rules what so ever. However I do reserve the right to dismiss any information I deem irrelevant or false. Such as calling a terrorist organization a legal government of a country. I dismiss that out of hand.
Viking score = 11
Originally posted by AWMac
This small Northern European nation was invaded by Germany in April 1940. On June 10, 1940, Norway surrendered.
Originally posted by john9001
Norway did not surrender, they gave the Germans a welcoming party.
Originally posted by AWMac
That thought crossed my mind also...
Mac
Originally posted by Viking
Sorry I have to ruin your fun gents. ;)
"German ships sailed up the fjord leading to Oslo, reaching the Drøbak Narrows (Drøbaksundet). In the early morning of April 9, the gunners at Oscarsborg Fortress fired on the leading ship, the Blücher, which had been illuminated by spotlights at about 0515hrs. Within two hours, the ship, unable to maneuver in the narrow fjord, was sunk with about 600-1,000 men. The now obvious threat from the fortress delayed the rest of the naval invasion group long enough for the Royal family and Parliament to be evacuated, along with the national treasury. As a result, Norway never surrendered to the Germans, leaving the Quisling government illegitimate and permitting Norway to participate as an Ally in the war, rather than as a conquered nation."
Linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Weser%C3%BCbung)
Viking score = 11
-
Originally posted by Viking
The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Except by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE.
Originally posted by Viking
Lol, yeah until 9/11 2001 they did. But being supported by a couple of terrorist-loving countries while fighting a civil war does not make you a nation. Unless of course you are willing to admit that the Taliban forces were legitimate soldiers of a nation state and thus subject to POW status when captured? No I didn't think you would. You know ... this is a strange turn of events that you people are actually trying to legitimize the Taliban as the legal government of Afghanistan. I think your government would strongly disagree. ;)
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Lets see... I am not a Saudi, a Pakistani, or a Emeratiy... Emmirite... somebody from the UAE, so no, they were not legitimate.
However that does not change the fact that they were recognized by three governments at least, and that when you said, " The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.", you were wrong.
Originally posted by Viking
Well that depends on my/your point of view, but I'll concede that point.
Holden score = 1
So the result so far is:
Viking score = 11
Holden score = 1
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Unless we are playing golf, high score wins.
Indeed.
Viking score = 12 ;)
-
When you keep changing the rules of the game, you always win, Viking. :rolleyes:
-
There are no rules (except Skuzzy's), only arguments and counterarguments.
-
Originally posted by Viking
I asked for two countries who officialy[/b] recogniced Chechnyan independence[/b]. You provided a deposed president and a terrorist organization.
but the question remains: Do you support the Chechnyans and/or Taliban? Is there a reason you won’t answer this simple question?[/b]
Did I miss something, or am I now a country?
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Lets see... I am not a Saudi, a Pakistani, or a Emeratiy... Emmirite... somebody from the UAE, so no, they were not legitimate.
However that does not change the fact that they were recognized by three governments at least, and that when you said, " The Taliban government was never recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.", you were wrong.
Do you remember that post? seems I did answer your question... perhaps you should get your prescription refilled. That ADD is kicing up again.
You asked a simple question, asking if there were governments who recognized Chechnya independance. The President of Georgia was not deposed when he recognized.
You disqualified the Taliban, because they were not reognized. I (and Bodhi) listed three, so you lose again.
I listed the answers, I win.
-30-
I predict you wll not accept this answer.
Guess what? I'm clairvoyant! I win again!
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Did I miss something, or am I now a country?
Yes you obviously must have missed something. No you're not a country. It was a separate question, not part of the current discussion.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Do you remember that post? seems I did answer your question...
No you didn't. I didn't ask if you thought they were legitimate I asked if you supported them. Do ... you ... support ... the ... Chechnyans ... as in do you think they should be an independent nation? Do you support the Taliban?
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You asked a simple question, asking if there were governments who recognized Chechnya independance.
No I did not. I asked if there were countries who officially recognized Chechnyan independence. And you very well know this as I have repeated that over and over again, but you seem to insist on lying about it. You were right that the Taliban were recognized by three Arab nations ... of course the REST OF THE WORLD and the UN recognized the Northern Alliance as Afghanistan's legitimate government. That you chose the Taliban to represent Afghanistan must mean that you think they were/are the legitimate government ... if not you're just a lying salamander. I'm betting it's the latter case. At least I have the common decency to admit to being wrong when so proven.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The President of Georgia was not deposed when he recognized.
The president in question was deposed and even DEAD long before the Chechnyan conflict even began. You're completely full of BS.