Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tigeress on December 12, 2007, 01:18:26 PM
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What if... a limited head count (50 of the most powerful) bipartisan effort by today's left and right political party heavyweight politicians were to draw up, behind closed doors, a binding and brand new US Constitution that would replace the old one and its present amendments?
What do you think it would say? …or, not say?
TIGERESS
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Something much like it says now but with the inclusion of a Soviet type clause wherein all of the above is subject to the needs of the state.
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I don't think thats a very good idea. Nothing wrong with the constitution we have, if anything we should hold our government accountable for following it.
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Originally posted by Tigeress
What if... a limited head count (50 of the most powerful) bipartisan effort by today's left and right political party heavyweight politicians were to draw up, behind closed doors, a binding and brand new US Constitution that would replace the old one and its present amendments?
What do you think it would say? …or, not say?
TIGERESS
NOT! I do not believe there is a sinlge politician out there who would write such a document strictly in the best interest of the country. I believe every last one of them, left and right, would try to tweak it to satisfy some special interest group or some voting block, imagined or real.
What my fantasy about politics is, Tigress, is we get rid of every single career politician in office, all the way down to the clerk of the smallest city, and start over. IMHO, the federal govt is bloated w/ lifelong politician who long ago stopped doing what's best for the country. Now they simply do whatever the lastest Zogby poll or loudest whiners tell them to do. I'm talking about both sides of the aisle here. The failure of the federal govt to get much of anything done the last several years disgusts me.
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Originally posted by Mojava
I don't think thats a very good idea. Nothing wrong with the constitution we have, if anything we should hold our government accountable for following it.
Ahhhh... Agreed.
We need to protect and preserve our Constitution and Bill of Rights as they are today.
Rather, the question inquires what might be drawn up in secret and enacted as a replacement Constitution by the left/right power block given the opportunity to do so without accountability to the American public.
TIGERESS
Edit: Declaring Martial Law in the event of a WMD attack or a Flu pandemic would be an easy way to bury the Constitution.
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A military style government would be met at the tip of my .30-06.
The whole concept of government needs to be scrapped. It's always been a joke.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The whole concept of government needs to be scrapped. It's always been a joke.
And your suggested replacement would be...?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
A military style government would be met at the tip of my .30-06.
Benjamin Franklin once said, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
In my view, to prevent martial law in the first place with new restrictions is better than to deal with it after the fact.
What would this founding father think about our nation's current state of affairs regarding the vulnerability of our Constitution?
TIGERESS
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I believe that they would all agree that the only "rights" the "people" should have would be the ones that those in power granted them.
lazs
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they are too fat and bald to try anything that serious - they'd rather wave at each other in the toilet stalls
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I can see the product of such an effort would be the most confusing and nebulous document ever created. It would make our tax code seem like an elementary school primer.
The B.o.R. as well as the other output of our early Congress was a product of men who were by and large cut from similar cloth. They had a consistent view on faith, duty and the effects of man's governance of his fellows.
Not so today. Our society is so different from the one that created those principles that I bet they wouldn't even agree on what language it should be written in.
Our Founding Fathers would puke if they were aware of what we as a nation have allowed to happen to the documents they labored so earnestly to draft.
And they would be right. We should have protected our Bill of Rights and Constitution as they were written. Granted I'm not the expert on the history of The Constitution that I would like to be but I can't think of one amendment that has proven to be a benefit for America, I'm probably wrong but at the moment I'm at a loss.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
A military style government would be met at the tip of my .30-06.
The whole concept of government needs to be scrapped. It's always been a joke.
Under your new regime, will I still be able to have cars with large V8 and V12 engines? I'll gladly invest the money to convert them to burn biofuels.
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Originally posted by Tigeress
Benjamin Franklin once said, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
In my view, to prevent martial law in the first place with new restrictions is better than to deal with it after the fact.
What would this founding father think about our nation's current state of affairs regarding the vulnerability of our Constitution?
TIGERESS
Don't quote Franklin around Sailor, IIRC he's one of his direct ascendants or something. :noid
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Originally posted by moot
Don't quote Franklin around Sailor, IIRC he's one of his direct ascendants or something. :noid
Or a descendant from Thomas Jefferson.
:rofl
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It would be more about the government and society. Less about individual's rights and freedoms.
That possibility is why I want constitutionalists in the Supreme Court. Follow and interpret the Constitution, don't make policy.
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Originally posted by Thruster
I can see the product of such an effort would be the most confusing and nebulous document ever created. It would make our tax code seem like an elementary school primer.
The B.o.R. as well as the other output of our early Congress was a product of men who were by and large cut from similar cloth. They had a consistent view on faith, duty and the effects of man's governance of his fellows.
Not so today. Our society is so different from the one that created those principles that I bet they wouldn't even agree on what language it should be written in.
Our Founding Fathers would puke if they were aware of what we as a nation have allowed to happen to the documents they labored so earnestly to draft.
And they would be right. We should have protected our Bill of Rights and Constitution as they were written. Granted I'm not the expert on the history of The Constitution that I would like to be but I can't think of one amendment that has proven to be a benefit for America, I'm probably wrong but at the moment I'm at a loss.
I think the 19th amandment was just and necessary. hahahahaha
Watch what happens to the US Constitution when the President declares Martial law as a result of an "event."
I believe it is coming and we are getting set up for it now.
Be prepared to loose the Constitution when it happens.
Though only a citizen, I studied the Constitution and its creation and in my view the framers were remarkable futurists.
No one could predict certian things like high technology but human nature doesn't change and that was a problem then as it is now with respect to greed, power, and control of the nation.
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by Tigeress
What if... a limited head count (50 of the most powerful) bipartisan effort by today's left and right political party heavyweight politicians were to draw up, behind closed doors, a binding and brand new US Constitution that would replace the old one and its present amendments?
What do you think it would say? …or, not say?
TIGERESS
I'd say no. There is nothing wrong with the Constitution we have.. It just needs to be followed.
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Heh, Franklin's in my family tree as a distant cousin.
No, I'm not related to laser. Impossible.
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Originally posted by Stang
Heh, Franklin's in my family tree as a distant cousin.
No, I'm not related to laser. Impossible.
ahhh-hahahahahaha :rofl
Stang? Laser; Laser? Stang. Shake hands; add each other to your respective xmas lists and don't date each other's sisters. lol
TIGERESS
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we don't need a new constitution, we need a govt that will follow the one we have now.
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"I think the 19th amendment was just and necessary."
I'm sure you do, and you should, no matter how misguided that notion may be.
I'm in favor of limiting voting privileges, not providing a voice to anyone with an opinion. Actually, I'm coming to believe that elections are the worst thing we could participate in if we want a government that truly represents the interests of the body politic. I wonder if a lottery isn't a better solution. With 18th century values placed upon eligibility criteria.
Just remember, the nation was reeling with the shock of the 18th amendment when the 19th got snuck through. We probably should have repealed or reversed any legislation passed during those terrible years.
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Originally posted by john9001
we don't need a new constitution, we need a govt that will follow the one we have now.
http://newswithviews.com/loeffler/loeffler20.htm
What affect do you think the proposed North American Union will have on the US Constitution if the NAU goes through?
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by Stang
Heh, Franklin's in my family tree as a distant cousin.
No, I'm not related to laser. Impossible.
Stangs wife woke in the early morning to see Stang running from one edge of the backyard to the next trying unsuccessfully to fly a KITE ...She yell out the kitchen window "You need more tail....."
Stang stopped, dropped the KITE string and replied...
"Woman can you please make up your mind? I tried to get some last night and you told me to go fly a KITE....
Yep I see the Ben Franklin connection here....or at least near the tree.
:D
Mac
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Originally posted by Thruster
"I think the 19th amendment was just and necessary."
I'm sure you do, and you should, no matter how misguided that notion may be.
I'm in favor of limiting voting privileges, not providing a voice to anyone with an opinion. Actually, I'm coming to believe that elections are the worst thing we could participate in if we want a government that truly represents the interests of the body politic. I wonder if a lottery isn't a better solution. With 18th century values placed upon eligibility criteria.
Just remember, the nation was reeling with the shock of the 18th amendment when the 19th got snuck through. We probably should have repealed or reversed any legislation passed during those terrible years.
Probably so dear :) hahahaha
But then, you great-grandfather would have probably been cut off permanently had his generation failed to deliver the vote and where would that have left you? :p
No, I am not biting... say whatever you wish on topic. :D
TIGERESS
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This has been done here once before....................... ............................. ........
..........It would simply read "Bend over and grab your ankles".
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Tigress, I wish I could answer you but I am not sure what the question was. Just so you know I wasn't really trying to make this a gender issue. I really don't believe in universal suffrage, It has not paid the social dividend that was promised.
The point I was endeavoring to make was that the fundamental charter this country enabled has proven to be supernaturally efficient. It's when we make changes to it's design to accommodate fleeting pragmatic concerns that we dilute the elegance of the original blue print.
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No problem, Thruster. I understand your meaning now.
TIGERESS
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Originally posted by Tigeress
What if... a limited head count (50 of the most powerful) bipartisan effort by today's left and right political party heavyweight politicians were to draw up, behind closed doors, a binding and brand new US Constitution that would replace the old one and its present amendments?
What do you think it would say? …or, not say?
TIGERESS
Steve said it best.
Our constitution is only an aging piece of paper with old ink on it, If We The People do not abide by it.
The laws and codes of the land, are only good to the extent that people live by them. Corruption is the downfall of any governmental system, Whether it is Capitalist, Monarchist, Socialist, Communist, Democracy, etc.
One problem we have in this country, is that people seem to be willing to live on the laurels of the Founding Fathers. Yes, they took a brave, bold experiment in government, and made it work. They built a great nation with their blood, sweat, and tears. And in this age, it will be destroyed, the same way that Rome was, by the neglect of succeeding generations, and the preference for the fond memories of yesteryear, rather than confronting the grim realities of today and tomorrow.
Not so today. Our society is so different from the one that created those principles that I bet they wouldn't even agree on what language it should be written in.
This quote by Thruster is probably the truest in the whole thread. We ceased being "one nation, under god, indivisible" Long ago. Now, we are the biggest collection of special interest groups' on the planet. How many nations' have allowed a foreign language to supplant the native tongue of their founders, in the span of the same National Identity(I.E. From the time the Constitution, to now?) We are one of the few.
The sad thing is, someday we will have some kind of great upheaval, or civil strife, or what have you. And the U.S. Constitution, which if followed as originally intended, would still be better than any other on the planet, will be discarded. I myself, shiver at the thought of it's replacement.
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**** that. There'll be constitutionalists to secede from whatever abortion of a country wants to flush the Constitution, and to continue in its groove like anyone with Good sense would and already does.
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Scrapping the present constitution is not the idea.
Adding one or a few amendments... yeah.
Amendment XXVII
Members of congress shall not be allowed in the National Capital more than 10 days each calendar year. Voting will take place remotely, using whatever secure real time communication that technology avails. Each Congress member's office in their home districts will be considered the floor of the Congress for voting purposes. No other locale shall be considered valid for voting purposes.
Amendment XXVIII
No bill passed or considered by Congress shall have more than one subject.
Amendment XXIX
Congressional terms will be limited to 12 years.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Congressional terms will be limited to 12 years.
How many terms can they serve? I sure don't want a guy to get voted in for 12 years. That's too long... what if the person turns out to be a nutjob.. stuck w/ him/her for 12 years?
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Terms are 6 years long, elections are every two years (1/3 of the senators replaced or re-elected), so Groin's amendment would have senators not staying in Congress for more than two terms.
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Once public service became a lucrative activity all honesty and objectivity were lost. Either set term limits or decrease the amount of money a public "servant" can make. All pay raises should be set up as super-majority vote by the citizens.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Scrapping the present constitution is not the idea.
Adding one or a few amendments... yeah.
Amendment XXVII
Members of congress shall not be allowed in the National Capital more than 10 days each calendar year. Voting will take place remotely, using whatever secure real time communication that technology avails. Each Congress member's office in their home districts will be considered the floor of the Congress for voting purposes. No other locale shall be considered valid for voting purposes.
Amendment XXVIII
No bill passed or considered by Congress shall have more than one subject.
Amendment XXIX
Congressional terms will be limited to 12 years.
Amendment XXX
Congress has no right to limit or stop business in any form whatsoever, nor have the government take any money it has not earned.
Amendment XXXI
The 16th amendment is hereby repealed, and the mere expression of it's reinstatement is grounds for slow and painful execution.
And your suggested replacement would be...?
Why does everyone panic like a 4 year old little girl at the mere thought of having no one to tell them how to live their lives?
**** that. There'll be constitutionalists to secede from whatever abortion of a country wants to flush the Constitution, and to continue in its groove like anyone with Good sense would and already does.
Imagine that. People living how they would wish to. God forbid anyone ever having what they want.
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The real problem in this day and age is the premise of this thread in general.
People in this country need to quit searching for the holy grail of government. It is in place and has been for a long time.
Quit searching for a quick fix and a replacement. Be the government as was intended. Remember you are the government. Act like it.
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Originally posted by moot
**** that. There'll be constitutionalists to secede from whatever abortion of a country wants to flush the Constitution, and to continue in its groove like anyone with Good sense would and already does.
The heart of the question is, will they be the minority, or the majority?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Amendment XXX
Congress has no right to limit or stop business in any form whatsoever, nor have the government take any money it has not earned.
Amendment XXXI
The 16th amendment is hereby repealed, and the mere expression of it's reinstatement is grounds for slow and painful execution.
Why does everyone panic like a 4 year old little girl at the mere thought of having no one to tell them how to live their lives?
Imagine that. People living how they would wish to. God forbid anyone ever having what they want.
Amendment XXX...It's arguable that Big Business, and it's influence in gov't., Has been a large part of the problem with current gov't. It's been the attraction of business hiring anyone, including undocumented workers, that has been a MASSIVE part of the Illegal problem. I don't think this one would set well with many people. If anything, Gov't. should be examining the current state of business' practice, to help fix alot of National problems.