Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RoGenT on December 13, 2007, 09:27:52 AM

Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: RoGenT on December 13, 2007, 09:27:52 AM
I know this has probably been done before but long time ago. I would set it as poll but not sure how to do that but I was curious on what all people use in term of rudder control


A. Twisty
B. Pedals
C. Keyboard
D. Don't use rudders at all
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: The Fugitive on December 13, 2007, 09:28:48 AM
CH Pro Pedals
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Angrist on December 13, 2007, 09:30:09 AM
Twisty for now...

But I see Pedals in my near future.:rolleyes:
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: dkff49 on December 13, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
i use twisty for rudder control but somday i will save up for pedals
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Lusche on December 13, 2007, 09:36:50 AM
Simped Vario Pro USB pedals.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: SIK1 on December 13, 2007, 09:39:55 AM
CH pro pedals
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: sunfan1121 on December 13, 2007, 09:40:17 AM
twisty
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Whisky58 on December 13, 2007, 09:42:50 AM
Twisty.
If I use pedals I get confused.  I press the right one to go faster.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Bruv119 on December 13, 2007, 09:43:10 AM
CH pro pedals

Twisty sticks have the urge to mess up in the long run.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Whisky58 on December 13, 2007, 09:46:59 AM
I've had my Microsoft twisty stick for 5 years + and it still works ok.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Bruv119 on December 13, 2007, 09:52:52 AM
I bet you haven't used it as much as I used my old one Whisky!

My first stick was a msffb2 and It was good.  Had it 2 years before the trigger went then it lasted another year before the buttons started sticking and It had to go.


Saitek cyborg rumblestick twist went in under a year.  The cyborg evo force trigger and HAT went within a year.  Decided enough was enough and invested in CH stick and pedals and I just recently got a pro throttle.

Hopefully these will last for at least 5 years

;)

Bruv
~S~
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Karnak on December 13, 2007, 09:52:54 AM
B

Simped Vario Pro pedals
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Krusty on December 13, 2007, 10:00:24 AM
If you use keyboard, you might as well NOT use any rudder at all.

If you don't use ANY rudder at all, you might as well not fly until you get a twisty stick.



I'm serious. It's like trying to fly without any ailerons. You MIGHT be able to cause the plane to roll left or right, but you're screwing yourself over in EVERY way possible. It's as important as a throttle or any other major axis of control.


Might as well fly without any numpad or hat switch views mapped, as to fly with keyboard rudder or no rudder at all. It's harsh, but go play Counter-Strike or something that only requires a mouse.


Even the WORST twisty stick is better than no twisty-stick. It's a minimum requirement for this game.

That being said, twisty stick is the minimum, but rudder pedals are much better (once you relearn how to use 'em!)
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Whisky58 on December 13, 2007, 10:02:28 AM
Bruv, I'm sure you're right.

As a consequence of my advancing age I probably don't use my stick as much (or as vigorously) as you.;)

Regards:)
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: BiGBMAW on December 13, 2007, 10:06:18 AM
Twisty!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: SkyRock on December 13, 2007, 10:15:50 AM
Twisty
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: hubsonfire on December 13, 2007, 10:29:41 AM
Twisty
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: sullie363 on December 13, 2007, 10:30:29 AM
I only have the keyboard so basically I don't use rudder, makes fights interesting.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: bongaroo on December 13, 2007, 10:42:07 AM
barely used CH pro pedals for under 50 bucks = a month of learning pains followed by more control and smoother rudder inputs.  they are awesome!

also a x52 but i have the twisty locked off since i have pedals
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Clifra Jones on December 13, 2007, 11:02:31 AM
CH Pro Pedals.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: 5PointOh on December 13, 2007, 11:06:01 AM
Twisty until my bonus check comes, then onto pedals.  Any advice guys who have them?
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: BlauK on December 13, 2007, 11:25:54 AM
Fourth consecutive twisty stick.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Scca on December 13, 2007, 11:36:06 AM
Twisty for me, pedals when bonus comes..
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on December 13, 2007, 11:41:45 AM
Pedals for the last 14 years.  CH brand and they still work like the day I hooked em up.  Flawless!

ReDhAwK
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Bucky73 on December 13, 2007, 11:46:06 AM
CH full setup with PEDALS only way to go IMO. Twisty sticks don't work for me AT ALL.

I'm guessing it's what you learned to us first that makes it more comfortable for the user. I just want the most realistic experience I can possibly get and pedals help me get that feel. However, I do a bit of RL flying and I NEVER had the trouble taxiingng (how the hell u spell that?) that I did when I first started using pedals in the game. It was ugly. Like watching my wife drive......uggh:furious
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: JB73 on December 13, 2007, 11:47:56 AM
Lazer flies with a mouse and keyboard. If it's good enough for him it's good enough for anybody.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: waystin2 on December 13, 2007, 11:49:07 AM
Twisty.  Moving to pedals next year.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Wingnutt on December 13, 2007, 11:57:53 AM
Saitek Pro Pedals

more expensive than CH, but you get what you pay for.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Bruv119 on December 13, 2007, 11:58:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
Lazer flies with a mouse and keyboard. If it's good enough for him it's good enough for anybody.


kazaa does also    ........

he just upgraded to a 2000 dpi mouse apparantly thats uber in the world of mice.....  so he says


Bruv
~S~
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: captkaos on December 13, 2007, 12:08:32 PM
I fly with a mouse and a keyboard, and no rudders.  I only seem to get full rudder or no rudder at all, so I have learned to fly without.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: BaldEagl on December 13, 2007, 12:14:09 PM
Still using the same MS Sidewinder Precision Pro twisty my ex bought me in 1996.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Angrist on December 13, 2007, 12:20:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bucky73
It was ugly. Like watching my wife drive......uggh:furious



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Flatbar on December 13, 2007, 02:43:14 PM
CH Pro Peds

Another feature that's not mentioned is the ability of having differintial braking with the Pro Peds. Makes maneuvering on the ground much easier. If you like car racing games, you just lock the peds in place and you have both accelerator and brake peds.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Spatula on December 13, 2007, 02:58:46 PM
CH Pedals (non-pro version on a USB converter).
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: RATTFINK on December 13, 2007, 03:05:46 PM
CH Pro Pedals
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Krusty on December 13, 2007, 03:08:18 PM
^-- same as spatula, only I didn't have a convertor so I hacked them directly into the gameport, bypassing the need to piggy-back onto an existing gameport stick.


Long story, but MS used proprietary means of mapping their sticks (at least, *I* don't understand it!) so my prec pro (gameport) won't work with the CH pedals piggy back plug. Without the missing axis', the pedals won't be recognized in windows, so I had to hardwire the power to the ground to "fake it" for 3 axis, then use actual inputs from the rudder on the Z axis, and viola, it works!
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: SlapShot on December 13, 2007, 03:27:13 PM
<--- has CH Pro Pedals ... but can reach them on the floor ;)
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Donzo on December 13, 2007, 03:30:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wingnutt
Saitek Pro Pedals

more expensive than CH, but you get what you pay for.



Saitek's are better that CH's?
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Krusty on December 13, 2007, 03:32:44 PM
Better? Not sure... More expensive? Yes. The average CH Pro peds run 90-100 dollars, whereas the Saitek peds run about 120 dollars. Probably because they're new and have to recoup production costs more than the long-run CH pedals.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: bobtom on December 13, 2007, 03:36:42 PM
Twisty.....but when the $ comes im on to pedals:aok
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: thrila on December 13, 2007, 03:48:56 PM
ch pro pedals here
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Bosco123 on December 13, 2007, 03:54:34 PM
Twisty, peadals would get too complicated and I do not have enough room for them.
Logitechs are my favorite cheap stick
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Shuffler on December 13, 2007, 04:25:57 PM
CH Fighter Stick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Hajo on December 13, 2007, 04:43:36 PM
CH568 Combatstick USB
CH Pro Throttle USB
CH Pro Pedals USB
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: RTGorkle on December 13, 2007, 04:55:50 PM
CH Fighterstick
CH Mach II for throttle / rudder
Toe switches for other stuff

http://home.people.net.au/~pchance/squidgear/index.html

I don't have the sidewinder any more - turned it into one of these:

http://home.people.net.au/~pchance/gorklebox/index.html

IMO big 'ol leg muscles are not physiologically adapted for fine control of analog devices like rudder and are better suited to digital on/off switches. Hand muscles and their fine motor control are better suited to rudder.

Yes, I'm a nutcase, but it works for me.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Krusty on December 13, 2007, 05:26:17 PM
Gorkle, you're pretty handy with that hardware! I'm curious how you separated the inputs for the different hat directions. Last time I opened mine up I think it was rather unclear.


You ever think about making a frankenstein with the ergonomics of a logitech but the accuracy of a saitek or a MS Prec pro? Basically you'd have to swap the pots and figure out how to jam the electronics into it.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: thndregg on December 13, 2007, 07:08:16 PM
Thrustmaster Fox2 Pro twisty stick.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: bj229r on December 13, 2007, 07:38:14 PM
I've probably used 20 twisty sticks in the last 12 years, couplpe months ago went to CH stick/pedals, never been happier---pedals ALSO have added advantage of being able to make slight course adjustments of tank while in main gun
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: denada on December 13, 2007, 08:02:17 PM
I use a Saitek Aviator. It's a twisty stick with dual throttles. I also built a USB device I call the Main-Gauche. Main-Gauche is literally "left hand" in French, and was the name for a left-handed dagger used mostly for defense in fencing. My Main-Gauche has 8 analog axes and two buttons. I was going to use this to control rudder, throttle, RPMs, etc with the various dials, but the Aviator is more intuitive for me. So I just use the Main-Gauche for trims.

(http://korflab.ucdavis.edu/~ian/Media/main-gauche.png)

The USB chip is inexpensive and can be found at http://www.aqza37.dsl.pipex.com/joystick/index.html.
(http://www.aqza37.dsl.pipex.com/joystick/board2.jpg)
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Wingnutt on December 13, 2007, 11:15:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
Saitek's are better that CH's?


for me, yes.. having tried both I foun d them much more confortable..

adjustable pedal size, removable heel rests, adjustable tension than can be set with your feet on the fly.. I love mine to death..

but I would bet that people who are used to CH stuff would like their CH peds better just for the fact that they are accustomed to them..  but that hardly makes them better (or worse)..

it really comes down to personal preference and budget in the end..

if you go with either CH or Saitek though, you didnt pick the "wrong" ones as both sets are really really good.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: FiLtH on December 13, 2007, 11:18:03 PM
Twisty
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: RTGorkle on December 14, 2007, 01:05:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I'm curious how you separated the inputs for the different hat directions.


The hat is just 4 switches on a small board, all facing each other. You simply unsolder the switches, and run a pair of wires for each out to your own switches. You don't need to understand anything about electronics - it's just soldering and wires.

Denada has the right idea, buying a USB unit with e.g. 8 axes and 32 switches. No need to scavange old sticks any more.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Jaxxon on December 14, 2007, 01:26:20 AM
Thrustmaster Cougar with NXT mod and TM Elite pedals. Hall sensors .
The stick is 6 years old, the rudders are older, the mods about 2 years. Hats and other switches still work well, the original pots and gimbles are in a box, just in case :-)
Does this all help me fly better? Good question. I couldn't see myself fly with less than a full HOTAS.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: kvuo75 on December 14, 2007, 08:26:12 AM
I had TM pedals in the mid 90's for stuff like MSFS, Falcon 3.0.. Never really did care for them, very awkward to use while sitting in an executive swivel chair at a conference table.. Uncomfortable sitting with my feet stickin out in front like some sort of weirdo.. maybe with a custom cockpit setup theyd be more ergonomic..  (or maybe it was the nature of those TM pedals, they were like 2 feet apart)

when I started in AH last year I just got a twisty.... quite odd to get used to at first, but now, second nature..  and I can put my feet wherever I wish.

definately agree you NEED rudder in this game.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: 2fly on December 14, 2007, 03:52:57 PM
For desktop flight sims you can get away with a stick and a keyboard.

In AH....Pedals all the way!

I bought some Saitek pedals soon after starting AH and there is no comparison.

The two most important monetary  investments for AH success

Step one...get a stick with tons of buttons/hats for views...gotta have lots of views.
step two....get rudder pedals.
 
Some people have strong opinions one way or the other on which manufacturer is better.  I cant say having only ever used the Saitek pedals.  I can say that they have been 100% problem free.  I have never had to recalibrate them or had any issues with them at all.  I think they cost more, but I am willing to pay more for "Works as advertised."
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Gulp on December 14, 2007, 05:06:59 PM
Cheapo twisty.


Aspen
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: 68Wooley on December 15, 2007, 03:24:20 AM
Saitek pedals here.

Took a bit of getting used to after using twisties for ever, but can't live without them now. Recently had to fly with a borrowed twisty and it was ugly.
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: SD67 on December 15, 2007, 03:54:12 AM
Still waiting for my Saitek pro pedals to compliment my X52 pro set :(
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Kazaa on December 15, 2007, 09:50:53 AM
This is how I roll :aok.

I still use a,s,d rudder for shooting, but when I need to use my views, I use my mouse's side buttons for rudder and the middle button to center it.

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2848/arazorcopperheadmousemasw3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Nwbie on December 16, 2007, 10:09:40 PM
keyboard - when i remember that i have rudder control - mostly no rudder control - thats why i sux - too cheap to get a new stick until this one dies - then probably a twisty stick because my wife will laff at me for having pedals too...


:)

NwBie
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: AKDogg on December 16, 2007, 10:23:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bruv119
I bet you haven't used it as much as I used my old one Whisky!

My first stick was a msffb2 and It was good.  Had it 2 years before the trigger went then it lasted another year before the buttons started sticking and It had to go.

Bruv
~S~


I have had my MSPP2 joystick for over 9+ yrs.  This year I had to replace my trigger button and hat switches.  Piece of cake to repair.  Took a whole 15 mins.  The buttons I replaced with are the original that MS used but with a little longer life cycle.  Total cost for new buttons I think was $25.00 for 20 hat switch buttons, 5 triggers, and 20 of the other buttons.  I set for life, hehehehe:D
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: shamroc on December 16, 2007, 10:39:22 PM
CH Pro Pedals.  Accept No Substitute.

Shamroc
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Citabria on December 17, 2007, 07:43:36 AM
CH Pro Pedals
CH Fighterstick
X45 throttle
Title: Twisty, Pedal or Keyboard
Post by: Brooke on December 17, 2007, 08:25:28 PM
CH Pro pedals here.