Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mna78 on December 14, 2007, 09:57:38 AM
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Looking for different planes to fly, my main ride is currently the Spit8. Some may say is a dweebs plane but I like to fly a plane from the country I'm from and at least its not the 16 or some other eny 5 uber plane. I also dabble with the 5 & 9 if eny dictates or fancy a slight change...
So whats the US equivalent? the US planes I see in the MA mainly are the 51's, 47's which from my undertanding are more suited to BnZ / deacking type flying.
I've flown the P40E a couple of times and it seems like a TnB type of plane although I've not come to any conclusions yet, landed a few assists in it (I guess lack of cannons, contributed to this) and I believe 1 or 2 kills.
So recommend me an Allied TnB'er to try out for some fun, other than a Spit.
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super-uber-flappen(TM) on the F4us and the P38s make them turn the best of the late-ish US planes, but if you don't mind being slower, try the FM-2 or F4F-4.
US planes aren't generally known for being really tight turners. Their general reputation is more for speed, firepower, and horsepower. This is a generalization
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There is no real equivalent, but I would recommend you'd take a look at the F4U series. Just remember it needs (contrary to the Spit) alot of smart flap work - but once you get the grip, it can turn turn turn turn... ;)
For a real slow TNB: FM2
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Originally posted by Lusche
There is no real equivalent, but I would recommend you'd take a look at the F4U series. Just remember it needs (contrary to the Spit) alot of smart flap work - but once you get the grip, it can turn turn turn turn... ;)
For a real slow TNB: FM2
Even though he is a defector :D , I agree with Lusche.
The FM2 is slower than a Spit, but I think they dive better. It's also a tough bird. My squaddie calls it a flying tractor. Neither climbs like a spit, but after you get used to that, it's a fun plane to fly. I took on the F4U line as my plane of the month last tour and have met wit a decent amount of success..
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FM2
Tight turner, kinda slow, climbs nice. Just no cannons but still decent firepower. Probably the most "Spitty like" of the U.S. planes.
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Originally posted by Thruster
FM2
Tight turner, kinda slow, climbs nice. Just no cannons but still decent firepower. Probably the most "Spitty like" of the U.S. planes.
Hmm while I agree on the qualities, I'd rather say the FM2 is more the Hurricane's equivalent, not the Spit's.
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You're right, but he asked what U.S. ride best compared to the Spit. Lord knows I fly a very limited plane set but it seemed the right answer to me.
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F6F-5 would be my choice for a US Spit "equivalent". Fairly similar in performance to a Spit IX under 20k.
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wow quick responses, thanks. Everyones obviously as bored as me sitting at work :)
This maybe a stupid question, but are US the F series planes all Navy planes?
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Stick to the Brits & go Hurri
or mossie
but hurri turns like no other
big firepower too
:)
JimmyC
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Originally posted by mna78
This maybe a stupid question, but are US the F series planes all Navy planes?
I believe so, or at least this appears to be the case. As a big fan of the RAF planes, I think the comparisons between the FM2 and Hurri, and the F6 and Spitfire are pretty accurate. There's no direct counterparts, but those are perhaps the most similar flying models.
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Yeah when I get slow down on the deck in my Spit and then a Hurri suddenly comes along I know I'm in trouble...
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i'd agree with the F6F answer.
The D hog is a very nice turner if you get slow with the flaps out.
If you want British wingman also check out our squad.
Bruv
~S~
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I've had amazing success in P40e vs spits and hurricanes
Granted P40 is slower then fat woman chasing an ice cream truck (im sure the acceleration is about the same)
But flown correctly, i.e BnZ and turnfight when you have to with flaps, it can turn quite well, i've stayed with 109s and spit 16's easily, just cant accelerate with em, and worse you might only have one shot before they try to run.
F4u series is amazingly wonderful for turn and burn, last night took an F4u up and turn fought an La7 and P51D at 15k, granted havent flown an f4u in a tour I had to dive after 5 or 6 minutes of turning simply couldn't get an advantage on either of them.
PLENTY of awesome f4u sticks can vouch an f4u with flaps down can make a spits life pretty hell.
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Thanks Bruv119 but I'm already in a Squad.
Think I'll give the F6F-5 a blast tonight, so if any of you shoot me down (and I most certainly will get shoot down tonight, as with every night) its because I'm testing a new plane.... ;)
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Some folks recomended the f4u's to you, great plane, fun as hell. Be advised: F4u ground loops very easy landing on a runway. Practice some off-line to get the hang of it. It's easy to land it on a carrier because of the
hook. For my money the best F4u is the F4u-1.
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Just remember to use flaps in the blue planes and you'll do alright.
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You dive in and pick a target while doing 450+ mph and you can "out turn" anything in the game -- breifly.
The facts are that the P-40E sucks worse than the Hurr2C, the Spit5, the Spit9, the spit16. It's slowest of them all, save the hurr2c, it can't outclimb any except a small window around 10k where it climbs better than the Hurr2C, then the Hurr2C takes over again. It can't out turn any of these planes, and the flaps are SPLIT FLAPS, meaning if you use them in combat you are toast. They are not efficient flaps, and are meant to almost act as air brakes during landing. While the P-40E does have 6x 50cal guns, it has a very short ammo clip (shortest amongst all the 50cal planes) and really hasn't got much firepower outside of 1-2 kills, factoring in average spray time.
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p40e&p2=hurri2c&p3=spit5&p4=spit9
and:
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p40e&p2=spit9&p3=spit8&p4=spit16
Most folks that swear by the P-40E use it in the most timid of fashion (coming in with 10k advantage, the second they lose speed running for home, etc) and while some good pilots can get kills with them, it's definitely not the plane in this case.
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Fly the F6F. It's the closest US plane to a Spit. It will hang with most of the Spits in a turn-fight but you need good flap work.
[EDIT] Yes, F series are all Naval planes. P series are all Air Force.
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Correct, USN/MC fighters are all designated as:
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It's confusing when you have the same aircraft is built by two manufacturers, like we have with the Wildcat. The F4F-4 is the 4th major variant of the 4th fighter design by grumman. The FM-2 is the 2nd variant of the 1st fighter built by General Motors, but is ALSO effectively the same aircraft as the F4F-8, I believe.
The F4U is definately the best dogfighter of the American rides. However she's NOT an easy ship to learn (although you'll get an argument on this point from some veteran pilots). For my money the order is:
F4U-4 - Best prop in the game PERIOD. Not quite the turner of the 1A, but the added muscle makes up for it, especially in the vertical.
F4U-1A - Better visibility, acceleration, climb, and marginally superior in speed and turning ability over the birdcage.
F4U-1D - Not quite the turner the 1A is, but equivalent in climb and acceleration
F4U-1C - Slower, heavier and not quite as agile, but otherwise generally similar in perfomance to the 1D, with the added punch of the Hispanos
F4U-1 - She's third to the -4 and -1A in speed, and second to the -1A as a turner. However IMO she really suffers from a lack of power in climb and acceleration. The view out the back isn't too bad, but every other direction is poor. Good luck with deflection shooting. :p
The key to the 1 and 1A is fuel load. Anything more than 25% in the wing tanks and she gets a little sluggish, especially in roll. I generally burn the wings down to 1/8 (left, then right) before starting on the main.
The FM-2 is a good plane. She can take a hell of a beating, climbs decently and is highly maneuverable (it is SO fun reversing on Spit dweebs who think they can out-turn everything). The views leave a bit to be desired, and while the ammo load is plentiful it's at times easy to really miss having the extra pair of .50s. However her biggest draw back as noted is speed. You're not going to catch anything intent on running, and you're not going to extend on anyone determined to run you down
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If you do fly the F6F, be prepared for the worst rear views in AH. IMO.
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[SIZE=8]FM2 ROX[/SIZE]
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The closest U.S. ship to the Spitfire is indeed the Grumman F6F, but know that the latter is significantly harder to fly than the Spitfire. It's slower, climbs worse, and turns worse than the Spitfire. The F4U-4 doesn't behave as similarly to the Spitfire as the Hellcat does, but is closer in terms of ease of use. In fact, the F4U-4 is faster than the Spitfire, climbs better, and turns very nearly as well.
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Just so people don't get the wrong impression Benny; the F4U-4 is equal in climb to the Spit IX. The XIV and XVI are markedly superior to the F4U-4 in climb rate and acceleration. The F4U-4 zooms better though.
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There is no real equivelent to the spit8 in US iron. I agree with Viking the F6F is the closest thing. The FM-2 has got the turn rate but not the speed or raw power in the vertical. The 109F4 is actually (IMO) an awful close match in many ways (I know its not a US plane)...
The various hogs have a higher top end combined with flaps, roll and tremendous rudder authority that give them tremendous performance in the verticals and the ability to "saddle up" on the VIII. The spit vs hog matchup is probably one of the best (and most fun) since neither can really fly the others fight. It becomes a real "chess match" when two good sticks are involved...
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Although I agree that the F6F is about the closest to the spit8, it, and all other US planes are not going to have that Spit feel. Spits are spoiling with there combination of acceleration, climb and manuverability. You can blow your E in most Spits and still rely on these 3 factors to get an advantage, or stay competitive against most of the other common planes.
US planes are great, but they require more time to learn the flap work and more dilligent attention to your E state.
You'll probably feel neutered in a P40, heavy in the F6F & Corsairs, slow in the F4f/FM2, bored in the 51s, and like a blimp in the Jugs.
All of these feelings can be negated once you learn the planes a bit.
Aspen
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1-hog!:aok
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If you want something like a spit fly a spit. If you want a new experience fly anything else. Expect a learning curve.
AND HAVE FUN! :aok
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What SkyRock said ! :aok
RASCAL
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Originally posted by Viking
F6F-5 would be my choice for a US Spit "equivalent". Fairly similar in performance to a Spit IX under 20k.
I'm with Viking on this. I primarily fly Spits, usually the 8. No they are not dweeb planes, they just outturn all those schoolbus-like AC out there! Interestingly enough, I was asking the same question myself a couple of tours ago. I have begun flying the F6F5 alot, and have found that with some throttle work, rudder usage, and occasional flaps you can get it to behave "Spit-like". The bonus on the F6F5 is the 6 x .50's cal, dives like Hell(cat), takes a heck of a pounding before dying, and it carries a wicked ordnance load to boot. The heavy ordnance load let's you share the love with ground targets too! It is also a heck of alot easier in an F6F5 to takeoff with a heavy load and land on a carrier than the F4U series. No names come to mind, but there are some tremendous F6F5 sticks out there. I am sure some of them would be willing to help you train up. Try it, you'll like it.
Oink
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I used to fly the Spit V exclusively and looked for its equivalent when they porked the ammo load out (I loved my blue Spit V :cry).
I now fly the F6F and the FM2 almost exclusively.
Of the 2 ... the FM2 is the closest to the Spit ... but ... the F6F is the most dangerous of the 2, but needs to be flown correctly. The F6F is not as forgiving as the FM2.
Yes the FM2 is slower, but if you fly it right and keep it's momentum up, it surprises most who think that they will out zoom it ... plus those .50 cals can reach out a touch ya, from D800 on in, with devastating results. As mentioned ... it dives very well and it is almost as tuff as it's big brother the F6F.
You can throw the FM2 around almost like you can a Spit ... you can not throw and F6-F around like a Spit.
I consistently beat the snot out of any Spit, F6F, and the Hurri in the FM2. The only plane that gives me fits while flying the FM2 is the A6M5.
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One more opinion.
As far as how it flies and how you fly it then I have to say that the FM2 is the most spit-like of the US planes. It will be a lot slower than the mk8 you are used to, more like a mk 5. You give up the 20mm firepower but you gain a tremendous amount of durability. Imho the FM2 probably takes hits the best of any plane in the game.
The guys are right that the Corsairs and 38s can be incredible but it is much much harder to do.
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Thanks for all the replies guys, I'll give the F6F5, FM-2 & F4U-4 a try over the next few days. Then pick on one to fly and learn for a bit...
Nice little debate there on peoples views on the US plane set also.
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Originally posted by mna78
Thanks for all the replies guys, I'll give the F6F5, FM-2 & F4U-4 a try over the next few days. Then pick on one to fly and learn for a bit...
Nice little debate there on peoples views on the US plane set also.
F4U-4 is a perked ride ... hope you have plenty of perks to lose ... cause once they see the icon ... it's a magnet ... everyone will be gunnin' for ya.
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I'd start with the 1A. She's closest in overall performance to the 4 of the other Hogs. The 1 is a good perk-farmer, tho, and just because she's not as capable as the other F4Us in no way implies she's not a good ride. ANY F4U is generally superior to a significant chunk of the plane set. :D
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Originally posted by SlapShot
F4U-4 is a perked ride ... hope you have plenty of perks to lose ... cause once they see the icon ... it's a magnet ... everyone will be gunnin' for ya.
Can be true... unless a 38 is around, they seem to draw cons like flies. :D
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Spits are good planes to learn in, but after awhile they are just far too easy. I learned in the Spit 9 myself.
I know you asked for an American plane, but you may consider trying out the Ki-84. It's the plane I jumped into after I had enough of the Spits.
It can do a very good mix of BnZ energy fighting and turn fighting, It's a very good all around plane.
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Originally posted by crockett
Spits are good planes to learn in, but after awhile they are just far too easy. I learned in the Spit 9 myself.
I know you asked for an American plane, but you may consider trying out the Ki-84. It's the plane I jumped into after I had enough of the Spits.
It can do a very good mix of BnZ energy fighting and turn fighting, It's a very good all around plane.
All true.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I used to fly the Spit V exclusively and looked for its equivalent when they porked the ammo load out (I loved my blue Spit V :cry).
I now fly the F6F and the FM2 almost exclusively.
Of the 2 ... the FM2 is the closest to the Spit ... but ... the F6F is the most dangerous of the 2, but needs to be flown correctly. The F6F is not as forgiving as the FM2.
Yes the FM2 is slower, but if you fly it right and keep it's momentum up, it surprises most who think that they will out zoom it ... plus those .50 cals can reach out a touch ya, from D800 on in, with devastating results. As mentioned ... it dives very well and it is almost as tuff as it's big brother the F6F.
You can throw the FM2 around almost like you can a Spit ... you can not throw and F6-F around like a Spit.
I consistently beat the snot out of any Spit, F6F, and the Hurri in the FM2. The only plane that gives me fits while flying the FM2 is the A6M5.
hurri owns the wildcat!:aok
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If you like Spits why change ? If your wanting to change to learn more thats great, but if it's just because some say "it's a dweeb ride" don't worry what others say fly for yourself and have fun doing it.
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How do you feel about Axis planes? Like Crockett said:
The Ki-84 Hayate is about the same as the Spitfire with some nice Fowler flaps (opening up at about 175 mph) that help you really turn. The problem is that it sheds parts at 450 mph + in-game.
Performance for the Hayate is very similar to the Spitfire IX, as is every other performance factor. It's also about as physically tough as the Spitfire.
Learning how to fly the Bf 109 would be a good idea too. It really teaches you how to fly and more often than not, a 109F will beat a Spitfire 8 in a turn fight... but not likely in the vertical. The 109K is the ultimate fighting machine IMO though since it holds climb and speed advantages vs. most planes. That plane however is very different from the Spitfire.
Yes, Xbrit you're right, he said so in his 1st post (and it says so in my sig) but I think he just wants to try out some more planes.
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Originally posted by xbrit
If you like Spits why change ? If your wanting to change to learn more thats great, but if it's just because some say "it's a dweeb ride" don't worry what others say fly for yourself and have fun doing it.
I agree. I figure if all these "top pilots" are racking up their kills in Tempests, C-Hogs and 262's I can't feel bad about flying a XVI occasionally.
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The day I feel bad about flying any cartoon airplane, I'm going to quit.
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Originally posted by mna78
Looking for different planes to fly, my main ride is currently the Spit8. Some may say is a dweebs plane but I like to fly a plane from the country I'm from and at least its not the 16 or some other eny 5 uber plane. I also dabble with the 5 & 9 if eny dictates or fancy a slight change...
So whats the US equivalent? the US planes I see in the MA mainly are the 51's, 47's which from my undertanding are more suited to BnZ / deacking type flying.
I've flown the P40E a couple of times and it seems like a TnB type of plane although I've not come to any conclusions yet, landed a few assists in it (I guess lack of cannons, contributed to this) and I believe 1 or 2 kills.
So recommend me an Allied TnB'er to try out for some fun, other than a Spit.
If you like Spits, fly em and don't apologize. I really like the 8 as well.
I fly the 38G because it's really a twin engined Spit :)
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You fly the "G" because you need the extra engine to get home with !:huh
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
You fly the "G" because you need the extra engine to get home with !:huh
That too :)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The only plane that gives me fits while flying the FM2 is the A6M5.
I remember doing some tests with the FM2 just after it was added finding that it was a very good, if slow, fighter. Given its role and place I remember finding it odd that the A6M5 was about the best fighter against it, and flown right, the A6M5 would completely dominate the fight. All the FM2 seemed to have was the ability to dive away, and heaven help it if the fight was at low alt.
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That's why Wildcats never tangled with Zekes 1v1. ;)
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if you fly the fm-2 agianst the zeke higher is better and vertical the fm-2 can dominate with proper e managment. but you must be way ahead of the game before the fight ever starts!
one v. one i like the fm-2 best of all the planes. there isnt a spit or hurri . i havent shot down, and im not that good,but they lose there edge in a furrball pretty quickly because everybody wants to shoot it down as an easy target!
there is nothin better than going into a pair of spit 16,s and putting them both on the ground in the wildcat!
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Originally posted by Karnak
I remember doing some tests with the FM2 just after it was added finding that it was a very good, if slow, fighter. Given its role and place I remember finding it odd that the A6M5 was about the best fighter against it, and flown right, the A6M5 would completely dominate the fight. All the FM2 seemed to have was the ability to dive away, and heaven help it if the fight was at low alt.
If a WildCat is slow and decides to fight a Zeke ... the Zeke will CRUSH it. .
But, as WWhiskey pointed out ... "you must be way ahead of the game before the fight ever starts!" ... then the WildCat has a marginal chance. The best bet for a WildCat is if it gets the initial angles and can loose some .50 cals into the Zeke. The longer the fight is ... the worse the chances are for the WildCat to survive.
WildCat pilots, as well as HellCat pilots, were told to NEVER turn fight a Zeke and they also eventually learned not to try and follow the Zeke in a zoom and get "roped". That was the IJNs favorite move against the WildCat. The WildCat just didn't have the power to follow.
Once the WildCats were swapped out with the HellCat (they look similar), the IJN suffered terribly trying the "rope" on the HellCat. Zooming and waiting to see the plane behind them (HellCat) stall and then seeing that it not only wasn't stalling, but gaining on them ... death followed very shortly after.
The HellCat will dominate the Zeke ... if flown correctly.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I remember doing some tests with the FM2 just after it was added finding that it was a very good, if slow, fighter. Given its role and place I remember finding it odd that the A6M5 was about the best fighter against it, and flown right, the A6M5 would completely dominate the fight. All the FM2 seemed to have was the ability to dive away, and heaven help it if the fight was at low alt.
That is precisely why the Hellcat was developed to replace the Wildcat (to kill Zeke's).
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
That is precisely why the Hellcat was developed to replace the Wildcat (to kill Zeke's).
And boy ... did it do the job !!!
Navy and Marine F6Fs flew 66,530 combat sorties (45% of all fighter sorties of the war, 62,386 sorties were flown from aircraft carriers) and destroyed 5,163 enemy aircraft (56% of all Naval/Marine air victories of the war) at a cost of 270 Hellcats (an overall kill-to-loss ratio of 19:1).
The aircraft performed well against the best Japanese opponents with a 13:1 kill ratio against Mitsubishi A6M, 9.5:1 against Nakajima Ki-84, 28:0 against Kawanishi N1K-J, and 3.7:1 against Mitsubishi J2M during the last year of the war.
The F6F became the prime ace-maker aircraft in the American inventory, with 306 Hellcat aces.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
If you like Spits, fly em and don't apologize. I really like the 8 as well.
I fly the 38G because it's really a twin engined Spit :)
A lot of people get tired of flying the same plane over and over. Personally I try to pick a new plane every tour to be my new main ride or at least fly something new a good portion of the tour. (this month it's the C-Hog)
IMO, Spits are just way too easy to fly, so it's easy to get bored with them. Hell I took up a Spit 14 last night for the first time in probably 8 or 9 months. Had 3 or 4 kills in almost no time and threw them away attacking a formation of B-26's.. :furious
Besides that it's good to get experience in other planes, because then you get a better feel for what they can and can't do. That in it's self will give you more knowledge than anything else IMO on knowing how to fight other aircraft.
I will suggest again the Ki-84 because it's a great transitional plane. It's a pretty good all around fighter, so it's easy to then step into just about any other fighter after you learn it. IMO it's one of the most middle of the road fighters in the game.
I decided to start flying it again this tour and I forgot how much fun it is. When you get good in the Ki-84 make sure you play around with the Ki-61 because it's a another great little fighter, just a little less capable on the engine power side.
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A reasonable suggestion Crockett.
Bottom line is it's all about having fun and 'flying' what you enjoy, not trying to please or impress someone else:aok
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the f4u will out turn the spit8 when you know how to fly it. it dives great and turns on a dime. only down side is that it doesnt climb all that great. but any F4U is prolly the best US turn fighter with good speed.
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Yeah I'm not bothered if it is seen as a Dweeb plane, I think I've seen just about every plane being called a dweeb plane over 200 for some reason or another, hell if a Swordfish was in the game it'd be labelled a dweeb plane for something...
I'll probably always go back to one of the Spits, but like some have suggested just wanted some alternative allied turners to try out and get a feel for what planes are capable of. This it turn will help me understand what they are capable of if I encounter them.
I flew the F6F-5 for a few of sorties last night, seemed more responsive at higher speeds than the Spit8 and could turn with the Spit pilots that I encountered. The firepower seemed to lack over the Spit8 although that could have been the conveyance (375,350,325) or the 8 Fosters that I'd drunk ;)
I tried the Ki84, I think the tour before last and with some success also, nice plane to fly and I'll probably revisit it at some point in the future again.
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Originally posted by mna78
The firepower seemed to lack over the Spit8 ...
The firepower is not lacking ... it's a cannon mentalitly vs a .50 cal mentality.
Don't be afraid to hold down the trigger in a .50 cal plane ... you will be surprised at how far the ammo load will go ... and kill with impunity.
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mna set your guns for point convergence, rather than a spread. Also imo the closer you fire the .50cal the better. I set mine at 200yds and those things are outright buzzsaws.
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Fly what you want to.
That being said, there are some nice rides out there that don't get used a lot, Yak-9U, Ki-61, ect, that are great rides.
US birds that can manuever hard: try the P-38 series, F6F, F4U (when you get more comfortable with it).
They are all "fun" in their own way, and you will learn more trying different types, at least sometimes. Dont be shy, you might discover a favorite you didn't even think of.
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Space shuttle Atlantis will run a spit down in a dive but the 16 will outclimb it.:(