Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Elysian on December 14, 2007, 03:28:37 PM
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I figure the AH community would know the answer to this one.
I have a nice .223 Remington longrifle plinker that I can get gobs of ammo cheap for. It's fun, but I am looking to get something with more power for my collection. I have my eye on the AK74 semi-automatic (or copy of it), but I live in California. Can anyone enlighten me on if I could legally own one here? To me it is just another semi-auto rifle (albeit a high-powered one). Would CA law see it that way or as an illegal assault rifle?
Thanks for any insight.
Frburger
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Leave California.
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Hey Ely! Long time no see, how ya been? You flying again?
Not that wikipedia is the difinitive source, but here's a starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_%28by_state%29#California
Sounds like there's a list of banned firearms, but it hasn't been updated so you just have to buy a civillian/renamed model that isn't on the list yet.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Leave California.
That was going to be my first response.
As far as the AK74, the round that thing fires isn't really any better than a .223 In fact the bullet is smaller in diameter 5.45 vs 5.56 but a bit longer so the mass of the 2 rounds are fairly similar with about the same knock down power.
If your looking for a more powerfull long gun that can reach out and hit something with good power I would sugest looking at a .308 There are several semi auto .308's on the market but a bolt action is going to be more accurate and you have a wider choise of makes and models in a bolt action. Plus those are legal in Comiefornia, were as a semi auto is getting into the grey areas of the laws out there.
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What are you looking to do with the rifle? Just go target shooting for fun every once and a while? Or are you looking at hunting game?
Jon
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Originally posted by GoldenP51
What are you looking to do with the rifle? Just go target shooting for fun every once and a while? Or are you looking at hunting game?
Jon
My question too.....
I like a 270 for deer and all around. Pity I never have time to hunt anymore lol.
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Man, reading that CA gun law, looks like a mess... Just a quick scan makes it look a bit silly and full of loopholes as well. Time to talk to the local gun store.
I'm gonna use the rifle for target shooting and as a collector's item of sorts.
Hey Tarmac :). Doing ok and yeah, been flying a bit in AH. You keeping safe in your job I hope.
Frburger
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The local gun store said that the closest to an AK74 they could sell me was an Armscor MAK22.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85671650
This looks pretty crappy IMO. Not sure why this rifle is legal and the AK74 semi-auto is not? Guess I have some learning to do about CA gun law hehe. I have houses in AZ and OH but I live mostly in CA so I'd rather be able to have it here :/.
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Check with other firearms dealers. Don't trust the answer you get from just one shop. Also, see if you can find a guy with a federal firearms dealer permit who doesn't run a full-time gun store, and see what he says.
You should also specifically ask about purchases made out of state, and what can be legally brought into the state if it's been purchased out of state.
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Isn't Armscor the Chinese company that makes their guns by slave (prison) labor with questionable quality?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Isn't Armscor the Chinese company that makes their guns by slave (prison) labor with questionable quality?
They probably use lead paint too :huh
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Originally posted by Hornet33
As far as the AK74, the round that thing fires isn't really any better than a .223 In fact the bullet is smaller in diameter 5.45 vs 5.56 but a bit longer so the mass of the 2 rounds are fairly similar with about the same knock down power.
Russians and Western countries measure caliber differently. Westerners measure maximum barrel diameter and Russians measure minimal. It's all about rifles. So the caliber is almost exactly the same.
Edit: i mean NATO 5.56 = Soviet 5.45 - Russians don't count rifle depth into caliber.
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The Remington .270 seems to work fine for us.
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If you want something "standard", try something in a 30.06. If you want something really gucci, find a rifle chambered in 7mm rem mag. Big bada boom.
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Originally posted by Elysian
The local gun store said that the closest to an AK74 they could sell me was an Armscor MAK22.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85671650
This looks pretty crappy IMO. Not sure why this rifle is legal and the AK74 semi-auto is not? Guess I have some learning to do about CA gun law hehe. I have houses in AZ and OH but I live mostly in CA so I'd rather be able to have it here :/.
It's .22LR rimfire AK-shaped decoy. Free-bolt automatics, gas-chamber is cosmetic. Nothing to do at all with Kalashnikov design.
AK-74 is an automat (assault rifle) that uses a low-impulse hi-velocity ammo similar to NATO 5.56mm, but a little less powerful.
5.45 Soviet ammo shipped to troops is usually 10-20% more powerful then it's specifications though.
All I can advice is go buy an SKS. Soviet ones are the best. You are not allowed to own a full-auto weapon, so SKS is obviously a better choice then a castrated AK clone, due to longer barrel and generally better accuracy in semi-auto.
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As odd as Boroda is, an SKS is a classic choice (one I'd make over an AK47 copy), though this may yet be restricted in california.
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This thread on an AK47 board might give you an idea of what to work with.
I have an semi auto AK74 clone. Very nice shooter.
http://www.ak-47.us/Article_Detail.php?g=content1171613947
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Isn't Armscor the Chinese company that makes their guns by slave (prison) labor with questionable quality?
dunno about slave labour, but armscor or stirling as their popular and cheap .22 firearms are known by down under are a philippine company
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Thanks for all the good info guys
. SKS is a definite possibility too, I just had my heart set on an AK-74 clone. Both designs are classics though.
Intersting ideas Eaglr, I'm going to follow your advice. And Boroda, thanks as well; you confirmed some things I was thinking.
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How bout an AR15? They are fun to shoot (like an M16)...you can do a lot of modifications to it too which can be fun and spendy...make sure they are legal modifications though...and also make sure you can even get an AR15 there first :P I found a whole site sorta dedicated to it with forums and stuff http://www.ar15.com/
Or have you looked at any handguns? I find handguns a blast to shoot...
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Just move to texas. Its actually illegal for someone living in texas to own less then three full-auto assault rifles or machine guns. Hell I hear you get a tax cut if you own an anti aircraft gun or missile.:aok
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:confused:
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(quote) My computer goes down on me more often than my girlfriend.
-- Robert Paul (unquote)
Like computers, girlfriends need frequent updating. :cool:
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If you want something more powerful to plink with then I would suggest several of the surplus WWII era rifles. Often, the ammo is very cheap at surplus prices and a lot of bang for the buck
Some good ones are the russian nagant in 7.62 x 54 and the 8 mm mauser rifles.
stay away from the .303 british with it's spotty accuracy and hard to find ammo.
ought six surplus rifles like the garand are getting pricey but really really really fun... you can however find a lot of old hunting rifles in ought six for reasonable and you can still get good deals on ought six ammo.
The swiss surplus ammo market seems to be hot and cold... sometimes cheap... sometimes hens teeth rare.
If you get a high powered surplus gun.. get the ammo by the thousand rounds when it is cheap.
lazs
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Originally posted by Elysian
I'm gonna use the rifle for target shooting and as a collector's item of sorts.
There is something you should understand, there are a couple categories of firearms. Those that are shooters and those that are collectors. If you want a collectors item, don't shoot it when you get it assuming it's unfired, the value drops significantly as soon as you start to shoot it.
If you want a shooter just get something in a caliber you like that shoots well for you. If it's something that has some say historical value, get a battle rifle of some kind. Think Enfield, Springfield, Garand, Mauser or even a Nagant for high power. If it's medium then a M1 Carbine or clone will work. I would think that any of the bolt actions would be OK even in the peoples republik of kaliphornia.
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stay away fro the girl guns...
you need this..its a real battle rifle..the .223s are for short range
http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58CCAL
and look thru http://www.calguns.net pretty decent what you can do list
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Originally posted by Elysian
Thanks for all the good info guys . SKS is a definite possibility too, I just had my heart set on an AK-74 clone. Both designs are classics though.
Intersting ideas Eaglr, I'm going to follow your advice. And Boroda, thanks as well; you confirmed some things I was thinking.
If you need a classic Kalashnikov design (I mean Kalashnikov automatic platform, like in AK-47, AKM or AK-74, not just the look) - buy yourself a Saiga smooth-bore. It's available in various calibers from 12-gauge to .410, and in different "outer" designs, pistol grip or not, different mag capacity, sometimes with foldable butt. Made in Izhevsk by the same factory that makes REAL AKs. Or a Vepr shotgun, same design, but made at the factory that produces Kalashnikov machine-guns (RPK).
12-gauge Saiga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12
Saiga page at official IzhMash site in English: http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml
Edit: Wow, didn't remember that: they also make rifled Saigas! They may be easily fit to Californian idiotic gun regulations.
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Originally posted by Boroda
They may be easily fit to Californian idiotic gun regulations.
All gun regulations are idiotic, but I digress there.
I say go by fours at all times in guns. One full auto, one sniper bolt-action, one shotgun, one pistol. Then you start looking for other guns. And the general idea is that you never have enough numbers or powerful enough guns.
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Originally posted by McFarland
All gun regulations are idiotic, but I digress there.
I say go by fours at all times in guns. One full auto, one sniper bolt-action, one shotgun, one pistol. Then you start looking for other guns. And the general idea is that you never have enough numbers or powerful enough guns.
I don't own a gun, while I can easily go and buy anything with smooth-bore no shorter then 85cm, for self-defense.
After joining a hunting-society I can legally transport a smooth-bore, "disassembled", for Saiga semi-auto it means - magazine detached and butt folded. After 5 years of owning a smooth-bore under hunter's license I can buy a rifle, including Tigr, a civilian SVD version (means it has special marks in a barrel that make identifying a bullet easier).
I simply don't need it in the city. As I don't need a car here in Moscow.